---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/11/16: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:36 PM - Re: Re: Returned Mail: Re: Grounding Tabs (Michael Lazarowicz) 2. 03:59 PM - Ground power supplies DIY (Jeffrey W. Skiba) 3. 04:34 PM - Re: Ground power supplies DIY (Daniel Hooper) 4. 05:19 PM - Re: Ground power supplies DIY (Charlie England) 5. 06:08 PM - Re: Ground power supplies DIY (Jeffrey W. Skiba) 6. 06:30 PM - Re: Ground power supplies DIY (Daniel Hooper) 7. 06:34 PM - Re: Ground power supplies DIY (David Lloyd) 8. 07:31 PM - Re: Ground power supplies DIY (Charlie England) 9. 08:07 PM - Re: Ground power supplies DIY (jim) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:36:37 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Returned Mail: Re: Grounding Tabs From: Michael Lazarowicz Thanks Bob. I will use the Forest of Tabs. Like I said in previous post. It is not Practical in the RV 8 to locate the forest on the firewall so it will be mounted on the bulkhead behind the panel ( Isolated from that thin bulkhead and I will ground everything I can to those tabs. I will use a #6 wire to connect that to the firewall/batter/engine strap bolt. I guess my confusion is Z-15 Shows all " panel grounds " in one place and all firewall grounds in another. I just wondered if by sharing that #6 wire to the firewall I would cause a problem? Thanks for your patience On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 6:55 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 04:35 PM 1/10/2016, you wrote: > > I have read Bob's reply.=C3=82 It raises another question.=C3=82 If I w ere to use > B&C forest of tabs to ground everything.=C3=82 Flap motor , P. Heat,=C3 =82 strobes, > interior lights and all the panel stuff like coms, audio panel etc.=C3=82 would > that cause a ground loop. > > > No . . . the "ideal" single point ground philosophy > says take EVERYTHING to one place . . . except for > the simplest of small airplanes, this is impractical. > > As shown in the Z-15 figures, collect all panel grounds > (potential victims) to one place, all airframe grounds > to firewall as practical . . . or ground locally as > convenience dictates. > > For plastic airplanes, then -A- you DO gather airframe grounds to > the firewall and -B- take an extension wire from > the panel ground down to the firewall. > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:59:06 PM PST US From: "Jeffrey W. Skiba" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ground power supplies DIY T2theSBzbyBJIGFtIHRyeWluZyB0byBjcmVhdGUgYSBHcm91bmQgcG93ZXIgc3VwcGx5IGZvciBh IGxvdyBjb3N0IGFuZCBmb3VuZCBpdGVtcyBsaWtlIHRoaXMgb24gZWJheQ0KSGlnaCBRdWFsaXR5 IFVuaXZlcnNhbCBSZWd1bGF0ZWQgU3dpdGNoaW5nIFBvd2VyIFN1cHBseSBmb3IgQ0NUVi0xMlYg MzBBIERDIDM2MHcNCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuZWJheS5jb20vaXRtL0hpZ2gtUXVhbGl0eS1Vbml2ZXJz YWwtUmVndWxhdGVkLVN3aXRjaGluZy1Qb3dlci1TdXBwbHktZm9yLUNDVFYtMTJWLTMwQS1EQy0z NjB3LS8zMzE3MzU1ODI2MTQ/aGFzaD1pdGVtNGQzY2ZiNDc5NjpnOn5FRUFBT1N3fm90V2M0aU8N Cg0KUXVlc3Rpb24gaXMgd291bGQgc29tZXRoaW5nIGxpa2UgdGhpcyBiZSBva2F5IHRvIHN1cHBs eSBtb2Rlcm4gYWlyY3JhZnQgYXZpb25pY3MgcG93ZXIgdmlhIHRoZSBncm91bmQgcG93ZXIgamFj ayA/DQoNCkkgbWVhbiBpdCBzdXBwbGllcyAzMGFtcHMgb2YgcG93ZXIgZnJvbSBlaXRoZXIgMTEw diBvciAyMzB2ICh2aWEgc3dpdGNoIHNlbGVjdGlvbikNCg0KU28gd2h5IGFyZSBwcmUgbWFkZSBh aXJjcmFmdCBwb3dlciBzdXBwbGllcyBzbyBleHBlbnNpdmUgPz8NCg0KV2hhdCBhbSBJIG1pc3Np bmcgb3Igc2hvdWxkIEkgbm90IGRvID8/PyBTaG91bGQgSSBiZSBsb29raW5nIGZvciBhIGRpZmZl cmVudCB0eXBlIG9mIHBvd2VyIHN1cHBseSA/DQoNCkkgcmVhbGx5IHdhbnQgdG8gdXNlIGl0IHRv IHNpdCBpbiB0aGUgYWlyY3JhZnQgYW5kIGNvbmZpZyBhbGwgdGhlIGF2aW9uaWNzIChiYXR0ZXJ5 IHdpbGwgYmUgY29ubmVjdGVkIGJ1dCB0aGF0IGNhbiBnZXQgZHJhaW5lZCBhZnRlciBhIGZldyBo b3VycyB3aXRoIGV2ZXJ5dGhpbmcgb24gYW5kIG5vIGFsdGVybmF0b3IgVHVyaW5nIHRvIHBvd2Vy IHRoaW5ncykNCg0KDQpUaGFua3MNCkplZmYuDQo ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:02 PM PST US From: Daniel Hooper Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground power supplies DIY I do not see a UL listing label anywhere. Buyer beware, safety not guaranteed! > On Jan 11, 2016, at 5:56 PM, Jeffrey W. Skiba wrote: > > Okay so I am trying to create a Ground power supply for a low cost and found items like this on ebay > High Quality Universal Regulated Switching Power Supply for CCTV-12V 30A DC 360w > http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Quality-Universal-Regulated-Switching-Power-S upply-for-CCTV-12V-30A-DC-360w-/331735582614?hash=item4d3cfb4796:g:~EEAA OSw~otWc4iO > > Question is would something like this be okay to supply modern aircraft avionics power via the ground power jack ? > > I mean it supplies 30amps of power from either 110v or 230v (via switch selection) > > So why are pre made aircraft power supplies so expensive ?? > > What am I missing or should I not do ??? Should I be looking for a different type of power supply ? > > I really want to use it to sit in the aircraft and config all the avionics (battery will be connected but that can get drained after a few hours with everything on and no alternator Turing to power things) > > > Thanks > Jeff. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground power supplies DIY From: Charlie England That's probably something to at least check, if you do purchase it. You should be able to check for safety with an ohm meter. Just check from each low voltage terminal to every line level terminal to be sure it's transformer-isolated. Other than that, I'd probably go for it. The hotdog aviation supplies may be set up to run at 14 volts instead of 12, to mimic actual operating voltage with the alternator online, but that's not significant. After all, if your alternator quits, your electronics will still need to operate on battery-only. If you don't need to run your entire panel for hours at a time, you can achieve the same thing with a cheap 12V SLA battery and a fully automatic trickle charger. If you already have both on hand, you wouldn't need to buy anything but hookup bits & pieces. Charlie On 1/11/2016 6:32 PM, Daniel Hooper wrote: > I do not see a UL listing label anywhere. Buyer beware, safety not > guaranteed! > >> On Jan 11, 2016, at 5:56 PM, Jeffrey W. Skiba > > wrote: >> >> Okay so I am trying to create a Ground power supply for a low cost >> and found items like this on ebay >> High Quality Universal Regulated Switching Power Supply for CCTV-12V >> 30A DC 360w >> http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Quality-Universal-Regulated-Switching-Power-Supply-for-CCTV-12V-30A-DC-360w-/331735582614?hash=item4d3cfb4796:g:~EEAAOSw~otWc4iO >> >> Question is would something like this be okay to supply modern >> aircraft avionics power via the ground power jack ? >> I mean it supplies 30amps of power from either 110v or 230v (via >> switch selection) >> So why are pre made aircraft power supplies so expensive ?? >> What am I missing or should I not do ??? Should I be looking for a >> different type of power supply ? >> I really want to use it to sit in the aircraft and config all the >> avionics (battery will be connected but that can get drained after a >> few hours with everything on and no alternator Turing to power things) >> Thanks >> Jeff. > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:08 PM PST US From: "Jeffrey W. Skiba" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Ground power supplies DIY So what's the difference of using one of these ? http://www.amazon.com/Schumacher-SE-1275A-Automatic-Onboard-Battery/dp/B000 BO8TTY I have one already could I just connect it to external power plug and be go od to go (the battery is still on line) is it not as clean for power output ? (granted it's really only 12amps) Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground power supplies DIY That's probably something to at least check, if you do purchase it. You sho uld be able to check for safety with an ohm meter. Just check from each low voltage terminal to every line level terminal to be sure it's transformer- isolated. Other than that, I'd probably go for it. The hotdog aviation supplies may b e set up to run at 14 volts instead of 12, to mimic actual operating voltag e with the alternator online, but that's not significant. After all, if you r alternator quits, your electronics will still need to operate on battery- only. If you don't need to run your entire panel for hours at a time, you can ach ieve the same thing with a cheap 12V SLA battery and a fully automatic tric kle charger. If you already have both on hand, you wouldn't need to buy any thing but hookup bits & pieces. Charlie On 1/11/2016 6:32 PM, Daniel Hooper wrote: I do not see a UL listing label anywhere. Buyer beware, safety not guarante ed! On Jan 11, 2016, at 5:56 PM, Jeffrey W. Skiba > wrote: Okay so I am trying to create a Ground power supply for a low cost and foun d items like this on ebay High Quality Universal Regulated Switching Power Supply for CCTV-12V 30A DC 360w http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Quality-Universal-Regulated-Switching-Power-Su pply-for-CCTV-12V-30A-DC-360w-/331735582614?hash=item4d3cfb4796:g:~EEAAOS w~otWc4iO Question is would something like this be okay to supply modern aircraft avi onics power via the ground power jack ? I mean it supplies 30amps of power from either 110v or 230v (via switch sel ection) So why are pre made aircraft power supplies so expensive ?? What am I missing or should I not do ??? Should I be looking for a differen t type of power supply ? I really want to use it to sit in the aircraft and config all the avionics (battery will be connected but that can get drained after a few hours with everything on and no alternator Turing to power things) Thanks Jeff. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:10 PM PST US From: Daniel Hooper Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground power supplies DIY > On Jan 11, 2016, at 7:15 PM, Charlie England wrote: > > That's probably something to at least check, if you do purchase it. You should be able to check for safety with an ohm meter. Just check from each low voltage terminal to every line level terminal to be sure it's transformer-isolated. That is is isolated is virtually guaranteed. The question is whether it will stay that way! The UL requirements and tests ensure that it both will not pose a fire hazard and it will be electrically isolated from the line during reasonable use and *throughout the life of the product*. Basically without the UL listing, there=92s no verifiable way to know just what you=92re getting. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:47 PM PST US From: "David Lloyd" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground power supplies DIY I purchased one like this from eBay a couple of years ago. The PS comes fr om China. It does as it is advertized to do and is well made, or at least the one I h ave. My 185 has a ground power jack box built in near the battery. I use it for running the panel when doing adjustments, etc. to the avionics. I used some medium heavy duty alligator clips to connect to my heavy duty p lugs. You great care in connecting this way so you don't create a short. Or, if you don't mind spending lots of $$, buy a set of the mating jack/plu gs for that external jumper junctions. A lot safer. . . My unit came with no instructions nor data other than its rating. You may have to figure out what terminals on the terminal board go to "wher e". The PS also needs to be turned on before connection to the aircraft, like a ny bench "style" unit. The regulated output DC voltage is set via a small pot adjustment. So use a V meter to get the output set about right and then, after connection, you may have to tweak the pot a tad to get the voltage you need. It will hold that voltage very well up to its max current rating. If the PS is the same/similar to the one I have it is a heck of a deal for powering up the avionics panel. Dave --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ----- Original Message ----- From: Charlie England To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 5:15 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground power supplies DIY That's probably something to at least check, if you do purchase it. You s hould be able to check for safety with an ohm meter. Just check from each l ow voltage terminal to every line level terminal to be sure it's transforme r-isolated. Other than that, I'd probably go for it. The hotdog aviation supplies may be set up to run at 14 volts instead of 12, to mimic actual operating volt age with the alternator online, but that's not significant. After all, if y our alternator quits, your electronics will still need to operate on batter y-only. If you don't need to run your entire panel for hours at a time, you can a chieve the same thing with a cheap 12V SLA battery and a fully automatic tr ickle charger. If you already have both on hand, you wouldn't need to buy a nything but hookup bits & pieces. Charlie On 1/11/2016 6:32 PM, Daniel Hooper wrote: I do not see a UL listing label anywhere. Buyer beware, safety not guar anteed! On Jan 11, 2016, at 5:56 PM, Jeffrey W. Skiba wrot e: Okay so I am trying to create a Ground power supply for a low cost an d found items like this on ebay High Quality Universal Regulated Switching Power Supply for CCTV-12V 30A DC 360w http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Quality-Universal-Regulated-Switching-Po wer-Supply-for-CCTV-12V-30A-DC-360w-/331735582614?hash=item4d3cfb4796:g:~ EEAAOSw~otWc4iO Question is would something like this be okay to supply modern aircra ft avionics power via the ground power jack ? I mean it supplies 30amps of power from either 110v or 230v (via swit ch selection) So why are pre made aircraft power supplies so expensive ?? What am I missing or should I not do ??? Should I be looking for a di fferent type of power supply ? I really want to use it to sit in the aircraft and config all the avi onics (battery will be connected but that can get drained after a few hours with everything on and no alternator Turing to power things) Thanks Jeff. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:31:34 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground power supplies DIY From: Charlie England I'd certainly try it out. You might try some sort of inexpensive 12V audio device first, to see how noisy it is. Even if it's too noisy, you can still run battery only for quite a while, then recharge between sessions. On 1/11/2016 8:04 PM, Jeffrey W. Skiba wrote: > > So whats the difference of using one of these ? > > http://www.amazon.com/Schumacher-SE-1275A-Automatic-Onboard-Battery/dp/B000BO8TTY > > I have one already could I just connect it to external power plug and > be good to go (the battery is still on line) is it not as clean for > power output ? (granted its really only 12amps) > > *Subject:*Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground power supplies DIY > > That's probably something to at least check, if you do purchase it. > You should be able to check for safety with an ohm meter. Just check > from each low voltage terminal to every line level terminal to be sure > it's transformer-isolated. > > Other than that, I'd probably go for it. The hotdog aviation supplies > may be set up to run at 14 volts instead of 12, to mimic actual > operating voltage with the alternator online, but that's not > significant. After all, if your alternator quits, your electronics > will still need to operate on battery-only. > > If you don't need to run your entire panel for hours at a time, you > can achieve the same thing with a cheap 12V SLA battery and a fully > automatic trickle charger. If you already have both on hand, you > wouldn't need to buy anything but hookup bits & pieces. > > Charlie > > On 1/11/2016 6:32 PM, Daniel Hooper wrote: > > I do not see a UL listing label anywhere. Buyer beware, safety not > guaranteed! > > On Jan 11, 2016, at 5:56 PM, Jeffrey W. Skiba > > wrote: > > Okay so I am trying to create a Ground power supply for a low > cost and found items like this on ebay > > High Quality Universal Regulated Switching Power Supply for > CCTV-12V 30A DC 360w > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Quality-Universal-Regulated-Switching-Power-Supply-for-CCTV-12V-30A-DC-360w-/331735582614?hash=item4d3cfb4796:g:~EEAAOSw~otWc4iO > > > Question is would something like this be okay to supply modern > aircraft avionics power via the ground power jack ? > > I mean it supplies 30amps of power from either 110v or 230v > (via switch selection) > > So why are pre made aircraft power supplies so expensive ?? > > What am I missing or should I not do ??? Should I be looking > for a different type of power supply ? > > I really want to use it to sit in the aircraft and config all > the avionics (battery will be connected but that can get > drained after a few hours with everything on and no alternator > Turing to power things) > > Thanks > > Jeff. > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:07:44 PM PST US From: "jim" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Ground power supplies DIY Power supplies have several different types of ratings, and most have no overvoltage protection in case the power supply regulator fails. One of the ratings is how much current (Amps) will it provide while maintaining the rated voltage. Ripple is a rating about how much the voltage is allowed to fluctuate while providing current. The fluctuation is normally at about 60 Hz (cycles per second) for older designs, however, the modern switching type power supplies may have ripple at many different frequencies that may or may not show up as a humming noise on radios, etc. Some have voltage adjustments, some don't. If you get an adjustable one and it is inadvertently turned up too high, it can fill your airplane with very expensive smoke in short order. Too low of a voltage can also cause some serious problems with SOME avionics. The old adage LET THE BUYER BEWARE is very appropriate here. An attempt to save money might be extremely expensive. Jim From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Lloyd Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 8:24 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground power supplies DIY I purchased one like this from eBay a couple of years ago. The PS comes from China. It does as it is advertized to do and is well made, or at least the one I have. My 185 has a ground power jack box built in near the battery. I use it for running the panel when doing adjustments, etc. to the avionics. I used some medium heavy duty alligator clips to connect to my heavy duty plugs. You great care in connecting this way so you don't create a short. Or, if you don't mind spending lots of $$, buy a set of the mating jack/plugs for that external jumper junctions. A lot safer. . . My unit came with no instructions nor data other than its rating. You may have to figure out what terminals on the terminal board go to "where". The PS also needs to be turned on before connection to the aircraft, like any bench "style" unit. The regulated output DC voltage is set via a small pot adjustment. So use a V meter to get the output set about right and then, after connection, you may have to tweak the pot a tad to get the voltage you need. It will hold that voltage very well up to its max current rating. If the PS is the same/similar to the one I have it is a heck of a deal for powering up the avionics panel. Dave _____ ----- Original Message ----- From: Charlie England Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 5:15 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground power supplies DIY That's probably something to at least check, if you do purchase it. You should be able to check for safety with an ohm meter. Just check from each low voltage terminal to every line level terminal to be sure it's transformer-isolated. Other than that, I'd probably go for it. The hotdog aviation supplies may be set up to run at 14 volts instead of 12, to mimic actual operating voltage with the alternator online, but that's not significant. After all, if your alternator quits, your electronics will still need to operate on battery-only. If you don't need to run your entire panel for hours at a time, you can achieve the same thing with a cheap 12V SLA battery and a fully automatic trickle charger. If you already have both on hand, you wouldn't need to buy anything but hookup bits & pieces. Charlie On 1/11/2016 6:32 PM, Daniel Hooper wrote: I do not see a UL listing label anywhere. Buyer beware, safety not guaranteed! On Jan 11, 2016, at 5:56 PM, Jeffrey W. Skiba > wrote: Okay so I am trying to create a Ground power supply for a low cost and found items like this on ebay High Quality Universal Regulated Switching Power Supply for CCTV-12V 30A DC 360w http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Quality-Universal-Regulated-Switching-Power-Sup ply-for-CCTV-12V-30A-DC-360w-/331735582614?hash=item4d3cfb4796:g:~EEAAOSw~ot Wc4iO Question is would something like this be okay to supply modern aircraft avionics power via the ground power jack ? I mean it supplies 30amps of power from either 110v or 230v (via switch selection) So why are pre made aircraft power supplies so expensive ?? What am I missing or should I not do ??? Should I be looking for a different type of power supply ? I really want to use it to sit in the aircraft and config all the avionics (battery will be connected but that can get drained after a few hours with everything on and no alternator Turing to power things) Thanks Jeff. 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