Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:51 AM - Re: Azul sunset, Ojochal (Ron Raby)
2. 08:19 AM - Re: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators (ashleysc@broadstripe.net)
3. 08:26 AM - Re: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators (ashleysc@broadstripe.net)
4. 09:11 AM - Re: AEC 12A z diagrams cropped?? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 09:38 AM - Re: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators (Charlie England)
7. 09:38 AM - Re: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators (Ken Ryan)
8. 10:09 AM - Re: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators (ashleysc@broadstripe.net)
9. 12:00 PM - Re: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators (Charlie England)
10. 03:23 PM - Re: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators (ashleysc@broadstripe.net)
11. 03:45 PM - Re: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 04:07 PM - Re: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators (C&K)
Message 1
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Azul sunset, Ojochal |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=
Message 2
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
Hi Charlie;
For a start get on EBAY and input:
"Permanent Magnet PM Alternator Fits Isuzu"
It should come up as the first item listed.
The manufacturer is named "LActrical".
These units are most likely built in China, so you have to accommodate your
fears, expectations, prejudices, if any, to that.
(My personal belief is that there is a range of quality being manufactured
in China ranging from terrible to excellent.)
These units appear to be well made, but I have not run them yet.=C2- Once
you know what you are looking for, you can probably get the cost down to a
bout $75.=C2- Note that the internally regulated ones have a black plasti
c infill on the back side.=C2- If it looks hollow back there, it is the e
xternally regulated version.=C2- Knowing this allows a quick visual sorti
ng as you scroll down the various EBAY and Amazon offerings.
Cheers! (and good luck):=C2-=C2- Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland7@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 9:26:25 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators
On January 16, 2016 10:05:28 PM CST, ashleysc@broadstripe.net wrote:
Hi All;
Please allow a 75 year old from New England, the home of sarcastic humor, t
o note:
So many e-mails entitled; "Schematic for Twin PM Alternators." So few sche
matics actually presented.
I have two identical 12 V, 20 amp permanent magnet, internally regulated al
ternators for which I have not yet developed a schematic.
That's why I'm interested.
Cheers! Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 2:54:43 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators
<blockquote>
Joe. I think you ma y be taking the picture too literally.
You may be right.
And you are right about the regulator being the weak link.
Many of them made for the Rotax have failed. The alternator is
unlikely to fail because it has no moving parts except for the
permanent magnets that are attached to the flywheel. The
magnets will not stop spinning unless the engine stops first,
then you have bigger problems. Usually when the regulator
fails, the voltage drops. But it would be prudent to be
prepared for other failure modes like shorts to ground or
over-voltage. That is why my schematic in a previous post has
the relays interrupting power to the regulator DC output, to isolate
a regulator that is shorted to ground from the other regulator.
If the Revmaster had only one alternator, then switching the AC
would be a more elegant way to cut charging power.
Unless your Onex will be flown IFR, using on
ly one
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
</blockquote>
Hi Stu,
What brand/model are they? I've never seen a PM alt with an internal regula
tor. I'd be interested in one as a backup.
Thanks,
Charlie
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Message 3
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
Hi Joe;
I don't have a schematic yet. I was hoping to encounter one during the ongoing
discussion. The manufacturer is "LActrical."
If you get on EBAY and input "Permanent Magnet PM Alternator Fits Isuzu", one of
these should be the first item listed. Once you know what you are looking for,
you can get the price down to about $75 on EBAY or Amazon. Full disclosure:
Although the quality looks good, I have not run mine yet.
Cheers! Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 11:34:27 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators
Hi Stu! What kind of engine and alternators do you have.
It will be interesting to see the schematic that you develop.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452050#452050
Message 4
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: AEC 12A z diagrams cropped?? |
At 04:00 PM 1/16/2016, you wrote:
><ceengland7@gmail.com>
>
>Bob,
>
>A non-list-member over at another forum just asked about the
>diagrams in rev12A being 'cropped'. I just downloaded it, and it
>does appear to be true. Ex: z-10.8 first page to 2nd page appears
>ok, but 2nd page right edge cuts off all the symbols.
>
>Can you take a look to see if there's a problem with the drawings?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Charlie
Got a direct e-mail from the gentleman. Appendix Z
in the .pdf copy of the 'connection has be repaired.
Of course, the orginals are always available on the
website as well.
Thanks for the heads-up!
Bob . . .
Message 5
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
At 04:54 PM 1/16/2016, you wrote:
>
>
> > Joe. I think you may be taking the picture too literally.
>
>You may be right.
>And you are right about the regulator being the weak link.
>Many of them made for the Rotax have failed.
That situation along with R/R assemblies
for B&C products is being evaluated. We'll
have more robust recommendations for virtually
all OBAM aircraft PM alternator installations.
Bob . . .
Message 6
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
Thanks for the link. From memory, the pic looks like they've just bolted a
rectifier/regulator to the back of a typical John Deer/Kubota style PM
alternator. I wonder if the regulator is available separately. Also wonder
if it's a shunt style or switcher.
Charlie
On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 10:17 AM, <ashleysc@broadstripe.net> wrote:
> Hi Charlie;
> For a start get on EBAY and input:
> "Permanent Magnet PM Alternator Fits Isuzu"
> It should come up as the first item listed.
> The manufacturer is named "LActrical".
> These units are most likely built in China, so you have to accommodate
> your fears, expectations, prejudices, if any, to that.
> (My personal belief is that there is a range of quality being manufactured
> in China ranging from terrible to excellent.)
> These units appear to be well made, but I have not run them yet. Once you
> know what you are looking for, you can probably get the cost down to about
> $75. Note that the internally regulated ones have a black plastic infill
> on the back side. If it looks hollow back there, it is the externally
> regulated version. Knowing this allows a quick visual sorting as you
> scroll down the various EBAY and Amazon offerings.
> Cheers! (and good luck): Stu.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Charlie England" <ceengland7@gmail.com>
> *To: *aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> *Sent: *Saturday, January 16, 2016 9:26:25 PM
> *Subject: *Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators
>
> On January 16, 2016 10:05:28 PM CST, ashleysc@broadstripe.net wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi All;
>> Please allow a 75 year old from New England, the home of sarcastic humor, to
note:
>> So many e-mails entitled; "Schematic for Twin PM Alternators." So few schematics
actually presented.
>> I have two identical 12 V, 20 amp permanent magnet, internally regulated alternators
for which I have not yet developed a schematic.
>> That's why I'm interested.
>> Cheers! Stu.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 2:54:43 PM
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Joe. I think you ma y be taking the picture too literally.
>>>
>>
>> You may be right.
>> And you are right about the regulator being the weak link.
>> Many of them made for the Rotax have failed. The alternator is
>> unlikely to fail because it has no moving parts except for the
>> permanent magnets that are attached to the flywheel. The
>> magnets will not stop spinning unless the engine stops first,
>> then you have bigger problems. Usually when the regulator
>> fails, the voltage drops. But it would be prudent to be
>> prepared for other failure modes like shorts to ground or
>> over-voltage. That is why my schematic in a previous post has
>> the relays interrupting power to the regulator DC output, to isolate
>> a regulator that is shorted to ground from the other regulator.
>> If the Revmaster had only one alternator, then switching the AC
>> would be a more elegant way to cut charging power.
>> Unless your Onex will be flown IFR, using on
>> ly one
>> > http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Hi Stu,
>
> What brand/model are they? I've never seen a PM alt with an internal
> regulator. I'd be interested in one as a backup.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charlie
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
>
Message 7
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
Did that overhauled over voltage protection module ever come to fruition?
On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 8:11 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 04:54 PM 1/16/2016, you wrote:
>
>
>
> > Joe. I think you may be taking the picture too literally.
>
> You may be right.
> And you are right about the regulator being the weak link.
> Many of them made for the Rotax have failed.
>
>
> That situation along with R/R assemblies
> for B&C products is being evaluated. We'll
> have more robust recommendations for virtually
> all OBAM aircraft PM alternator installations.
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 8
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
Hi Charlie;
Well, the regulator is bonded=C2- (plastic cast in place?) to the back si
de, not bolted.=C2- It doesn't look like it can be easily separated, shou
ld you want to replace it, or mount it remotely.
Cheers!=C2-=C2- Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland7@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2016 9:36:43 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators
Thanks for the link. From memory, the pic looks like they've just bolted a
rectifier/regulator to the back of a typical John Deer/Kubota style PM alte
rnator. I wonder if the regulator is available separately. Also wonder if i
t's a shunt style or switcher.
Charlie
On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 10:17 AM, < ashleysc@broadstripe.net > wrote:
Hi Charlie;
For a start get on EBAY and input:
"Permanent Magnet PM Alternator Fits Isuzu"
It should come up as the first item listed.
The manufacturer is named "LActrical".
These units are most likely built in China, so you have to accommodate your
fears, expectations, prejudices, if any, to that.
(My personal belief is that there is a range of quality being manufactured
in China ranging from terrible to excellent.)
These units appear to be well made, but I have not run them yet.=C2- Once
you know what you are looking for, you can probably get the cost down to a
bout $75.=C2- Note that the internally regulated ones have a black plasti
c infill on the back side.=C2- If it looks hollow back there, it is the e
xternally regulated version.=C2- Knowing this allows a quick visual sorti
ng as you scroll down the various EBAY and Amazon offerings.
Cheers! (and good luck):=C2-=C2- Stu.
From: "Charlie England" < ceengland7@gmail.com >
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 9:26:25 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators
On January 16, 2016 10:05:28 PM CST, ashleysc@broadstripe.net wrote:
<blockquote>
Hi All;
Please allow a 75 year old from New England, the home of sarcastic humor, t
o note:
So many e-mails entitled; "Schematic for Twin PM Alternators." So few sche
matics actually presented.
I have two identical 12 V, 20 amp permanent magnet, internally regulated al
ternators for which I have not yet developed a schematic.
That's why I'm interested.
Cheers! Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "user9253" < fransew@gmail.com >
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 2:54:43 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators
<blockquote>
Joe. I think you ma y be taking the picture too literally.
You may be right.
And you are right about the regulator being the weak link.
Many of them made for the Rotax have failed. The alternator is
unlikely to fail because it has no moving parts except for the
permanent magnets that are attached to the flywheel. The
magnets will not stop spinning unless the engine stops first,
then you have bigger problems. Usually when the regulator
fails, the voltage drops. But it would be prudent to be
prepared for other failure modes like shorts to ground or
over-voltage. That is why my schematic in a previous post has
the relays interrupting power to the regulator DC output, to isolate
a regulator that is shorted to ground from the other regulator.
If the Revmaster had only one alternator, then switching the AC
would be a more elegant way to cut charging power.
Unless your Onex will be flown IFR, using on
ly one
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
</blockquote>
Hi Stu,
What brand/model are they? I've never seen a PM alt with an internal regula
tor. I'd be interested in one as a backup.
Thanks,
Charlie
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
</blockquote>
Message 9
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
The listing I found
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PERMANENT-MAGNET-PM-ALTERNATOR-Fits-ISUZU-KOKUSAN-DENKI-SMALL-ENG-12VOLT-20AMP-/301651032847?hash=item463bcd7b0f:g:bCUAAOSwstxVbPpU&vxp=mtr
shows what looks like a truncated metal disc with the potting material
in it, and 2 bolt heads showing in back. I assumed that the entire metal
disc including the potted section would unbolt from the dynamo. The
bare, unregulated dynamos look more or less like
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PERMANENT-MAGNET-PM-ALTERNATOR-Fits-PERKINS-YANMAR-SMALL-ENGINES-12-VOLT-20-AMP-/271888026588?hash=item3f4dca0bdc:g:55IAAOSwBahVbPnp&vxp=mtr
I googled 'ISUZU KOKUSAN DENKI wiring diagram' & found
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Permanent-Magnet-Alternator-Kokusan-Denki_252852606.html
which basically shows a B lead & ground. Since there's no field winding,
you can't depend on the switched ignition line to shut down the
alternator, so IMO, you'd still need a series contactor to disconnect
the B lead in an OV condition.
If the diagram is accurate for your device (and likely is), then you
*should* be able to treat it like a black box with a case ground and a B
lead (with the L terminal tied through an indicator lamp & switch to the
B lead).
Charlie
On 1/17/2016 12:05 PM, ashleysc@broadstripe.net wrote:
> Hi Charlie;
> Well, the regulator is bonded (plastic cast in place?) to the back
> side, not bolted. It doesn't look like it can be easily separated,
> should you want to replace it, or mount it remotely.
> Cheers! Stu.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"Charlie England" <ceengland7@gmail.com>
> *To: *aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> *Sent: *Sunday, January 17, 2016 9:36:43 AM
> *Subject: *Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators
>
> Thanks for the link. From memory, the pic looks like they've just
> bolted a rectifier/regulator to the back of a typical John Deer/Kubota
> style PM alternator. I wonder if the regulator is available
> separately. Also wonder if it's a shunt style or switcher.
>
> Charlie
>
> On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 10:17 AM, <ashleysc@broadstripe.net
> <mailto:ashleysc@broadstripe.net>> wrote:
>
> Hi Charlie;
> For a start get on EBAY and input:
> "Permanent Magnet PM Alternator Fits Isuzu"
> It should come up as the first item listed.
> The manufacturer is named "LActrical".
> These units are most likely built in China, so you have to
> accommodate your fears, expectations, prejudices, if any, to that.
> (My personal belief is that there is a range of quality being
> manufactured in China ranging from terrible to excellent.)
> These units appear to be well made, but I have not run them yet.
> Once you know what you are looking for, you can probably get the
> cost down to about $75. Note that the internally regulated ones
> have a black plastic infill on the back side. If it looks hollow
> back there, it is the externally regulated version. Knowing this
> allows a quick visual sorting as you scroll down the various EBAY
> and Amazon offerings.
> Cheers! (and good luck): Stu.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"Charlie England" <ceengland7@gmail.com
> <mailto:ceengland7@gmail.com>>
> *To: *aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent: *Saturday, January 16, 2016 9:26:25 PM
> *Subject: *Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schematic for twin PM
> alternators
>
> On January 16, 2016 10:05:28 PM CST, ashleysc@broadstripe.net
> <mailto:ashleysc@broadstripe.net>wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi All;
>
> Please allow a 75 year old from New England, the home of sarcastic humor,
to note:
>
> So many e-mails entitled; "Schematic for Twin PM Alternators." So few
schematics actually presented.
>
> I have two identical 12 V, 20 amp permanent magnet, internally regulated
alternators for which I have not yet developed a schematic.
>
> That's why I'm interested.
>
> Cheers! Stu.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com <mailto:fransew@gmail.com>>
>
> To:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 2:54:43 PM
>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators
>
>
>
>
> Joe. I think you ma y be taking the picture too literally.
>
> You may be right.
>
> And you are right about the regulator being the weak link.
>
> Many of them made for the Rotax have failed. The alternator is
>
> unlikely to fail because it has no moving parts except for the
>
> permanent magnets that are attached to the flywheel. The
>
> magnets will not stop spinning unless the engine stops first,
>
> then you have bigger problems. Usually when the regulator
>
> fails, the voltage drops. But it would be prudent to be
>
> prepared for other failure modes like shorts to ground or
>
> over-voltage. That is why my schematic in a previous post has
>
> the relays interrupting power to the regulator DC output, to isolate
>
> a regulator that is shorted to ground from the other regulator.
>
> If the Revmaster had only one alternator, then switching the AC
>
> would be a more elegant way to cut charging power.
>
> Unless your Onex will be flown IFR, using on
> ly one
> >http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Hi Stu,
>
> What brand/model are they? I've never seen a PM alt with an
> internal regulator. I'd be interested in one as a backup.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charlie
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
>
Message 10
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
Hi Charlie;
1.=C2- Well you found the right listing.=C2- I've looked at a few more
alternators that are apparently the same animal, minus regulator, and it ap
pears you are right.=C2- So you could have your choice: internally regula
ted or remotely regulated.=C2- I don't know why all the unregulated units
are more than $100!=C2- Plus you have to buy the regulator!
2.=C2- Concerning your second reference, please note it is not exactly as
above.=C2- The mounting ears are not directly opposite each other.=C2-
This may or may not be a disadvantage, depending on how you intend to moun
t it.=C2- I wanted a symmetrical configuration, so I had the option of mo
unting facing forward or aft.=C2- (These alternators don't care which way
they are rotated.)=C2- As it turns out both my pulleys will be facing fo
rward.
3.=C2- Thanks for the reference to the wiring diagram.=C2- I will look
further into it for paralleling. two units.
Cheers!=C2-=C2- Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland7@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2016 11:59:38 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators
The listing I found
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PERMANENT-MAGNET-PM-ALTERNATOR-Fits-ISUZU-KOKUSAN-D
ENKI-SMALL-ENG-12VOLT-20AMP-/301651032847?hash=item463bcd7b0f:g:bCUAAOSws
txVbPpU&vxp=mtr
shows what looks like a truncated metal disc with the potting material in i
t, and 2 bolt heads showing in back. I assumed that the entire metal disc i
ncluding the potted section would unbolt from the dynamo. The bare, unregul
ated dynamos look more or less like
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PERMANENT-MAGNET-PM-ALTERNATOR-Fits-PERKINS-YANMAR-
SMALL-ENGINES-12-VOLT-20-AMP-/271888026588?hash=item3f4dca0bdc:g:55IAAOSw
BahVbPnp&vxp=mtr
I googled 'ISUZU KOKUSAN DENKI wiring diagram' & found
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Permanent-Magnet-Alternator-Kokusan-D
enki_252852606.html
which basically shows a B lead & ground. Since there's no field winding, yo
u can't depend on the switched ignition line to shut down the alternator, s
o IMO, you'd still need a series contactor to disconnect the B lead in an O
V condition.
If the diagram is accurate for your device (and likely is), then you *shoul
d* be able to treat it like a black box with a case ground and a B lead (wi
th the L terminal tied through an indicator lamp & switch to the B lead).
Charlie
On 1/17/2016 12:05 PM, ashleysc@broadstripe.net wrote:
Hi Charlie;
Well, the regulator is bonded=C2- (plastic cast in place?) to the back si
de, not bolted.=C2- It doesn't look like it can be easily separated, shou
ld you want to replace it, or mount it remotely.
Cheers!=C2-=C2- Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland7@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2016 9:36:43 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators
Thanks for the link. From memory, the pic looks like they've just bolted a
rectifier/regulator to the back of a typical John Deer/Kubota style PM alte
rnator. I wonder if the regulator is available separately. Also wonder if i
t's a shunt style or switcher.
Charlie
On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 10:17 AM, < ashleysc@broadstripe.net > wrote:
<blockquote>
Hi Charlie;
For a start get on EBAY and input:
"Permanent Magnet PM Alternator Fits Isuzu"
It should come up as the first item listed.
The manufacturer is named "LActrical".
These units are most likely built in China, so you have to accommodate your
fears, expectations, prejudices, if any, to that.
(My personal belief is that there is a range of quality being manufactured
in China ranging from terrible to excellent.)
These units appear to be well made, but I have not run them yet.=C2- Once
you know what you are looking for, you can probably get the cost down to a
bout $75.=C2- Note that the internally regulated ones have a black plasti
c infill on the back side.=C2- If it looks hollow back there, it is the e
xternally regulated version.=C2- Knowing this allows a quick visual sorti
ng as you scroll down the various EBAY and Amazon offerings.
Cheers! (and good luck):=C2-=C2- Stu.
From: "Charlie England" < ceengland7@gmail.com >
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 9:26:25 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators
On January 16, 2016 10:05:28 PM CST, ashleysc@broadstripe.net wrote:
<blockquote>
Hi All;
Please allow a 75 year old from New England, the home of sarcastic humor, t
o note:
So many e-mails entitled; "Schematic for Twin PM Alternators." So few sche
matics actually presented.
I have two identical 12 V, 20 amp permanent magnet, internally regulated al
ternators for which I have not yet developed a schematic.
That's why I'm interested.
Cheers! Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "user9253" < fransew@gmail.com >
3 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators
<blockquote>
Joe. I think you ma y be taking the picture too literally.
You may be right.
And you are right about the regulator being the weak link.
Many of them made for the Rotax have failed. The alternator is
unlikely to fail because it has no moving parts except for the
permanent magnets that are attached to the flywheel. The
magnets will not stop spinning unless the engine stops first,
then you have bigger problems. Usually when the regulator
fails, the voltage drops. But it would be prudent to be
prepared for other failure modes like shorts to ground or
over-voltage. That is why my schematic in a previous post has
the relays interrupting power to the regulator DC output, to isolate
a regulator that is shorted to ground from the other regulator.
If the Revmaster had only one alternator, then switching the AC
would be a more elegant way to cut charging power.
Unless your Onex will be flown IFR, using on
ly one
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
</blockquote>
Hi Stu,
What brand/model are they? I've never seen a PM alt with an internal regula
tor. I'd be interested in one as a backup.
Thanks,
Charlie
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
Message 11
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
At 11:35 AM 1/17/2016, you wrote:
>Did that overhauled over voltage protection module ever come to fruition?
Yes . . . its in the que for loading to the
B&C production line.
Bob . . .
Message 12
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
J.Deere part numbers are AM877557 for the alternator, and AM101406 for
the regulator.
Unverified info is that the same regulator is also used on a 35 amp
alternator.
I use a little automotive 40 amp rated cube relay on an AC lead with an
crowbar module for overvoltage control and have a C/B on the B lead that
could theoretically also be pulled to isolate the regulator from the
battery if need be. I also fitted a larger multi-V pulley and around 500
hours I replaced the pulley side ball bearing.
Check out Mark Langford's KR2S website for more info.
http://www.n56ml.com/
Ken
On 17/01/2016 12:36 PM, Charlie England wrote:
> Thanks for the link. From memory, the pic looks like they've just
> bolted a rectifier/regulator to the back of a typical John Deer/Kubota
> style PM alternator. I wonder if the regulator is available
> separately. Also wonder if it's a shunt style or switcher.
>
> Charlie
>
> On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 10:17 AM, <ashleysc@broadstripe.net
> <mailto:ashleysc@broadstripe.net>> wrote:
>
> Hi Charlie;
> For a start get on EBAY and input:
> "Permanent Magnet PM Alternator Fits Isuzu"
> It should come up as the first item listed.
> The manufacturer is named "LActrical".
> These units are most likely built in China, so you have to
> accommodate your fears, expectations, prejudices, if any, to that.
> (My personal belief is that there is a range of quality being
> manufactured in China ranging from terrible to excellent.)
> These units appear to be well made, but I have not run them yet.
> Once you know what you are looking for, you can probably get the
> cost down to about $75. Note that the internally regulated ones
> have a black plastic infill on the back side. If it looks hollow
> back there, it is the externally regulated version. Knowing this
> allows a quick visual sorting as you scroll down the various EBAY
> and Amazon offerings.
> Cheers! (and good luck): Stu.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"Charlie England" <ceengland7@gmail.com
> <mailto:ceengland7@gmail.com>>
> *To: *aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent: *Saturday, January 16, 2016 9:26:25 PM
> *Subject: *Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schematic for twin PM
> alternators
>
> On January 16, 2016 10:05:28 PM CST, ashleysc@broadstripe.net
> <mailto:ashleysc@broadstripe.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi All;
> Please allow a 75 year old from New England, the home of sarcastic humor,
to note:
> So many e-mails entitled; "Schematic for Twin PM Alternators." So few
schematics actually presented.
> I have two identical 12 V, 20 amp permanent magnet, internally regulated
alternators for which I have not yet developed a schematic.
> That's why I'm interested.
> Cheers! Stu.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com <mailto:fransew@gmail.com>>
> To:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 2:54:43 PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators
>
>
>
>
> Joe. I think you ma y be taking the picture too literally.
>
> You may be right.
> And you are right about the regulator being the weak link.
> Many of them made for the Rotax have failed. The alternator is
> unlikely to fail because it has no moving parts except for the
> permanent magnets that are attached to the flywheel. The
> magnets will not stop spinning unless the engine stops first,
> then you have bigger problems. Usually when the regulator
> fails, the voltage drops. But it would be prudent to be
> prepared for other failure modes like shorts to ground or
> over-voltage. That is why my schematic in a previous post has
> the relays interrupting power to the regulator DC output, to isolate
> a regulator that is shorted to ground from the other regulator.
> If the Revmaster had only one alternator, then switching the AC
> would be a more elegant way to cut charging power.
> Unless your Onex will be flown IFR, using on
> ly one
> >http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Hi Stu,
>
> What brand/model are they? I've never seen a PM alt with an
> internal regulator. I'd be interested in one as a backup.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charlie
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|