---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/21/16: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:29 AM - Re: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators (Paul Eckenroth) 2. 01:28 PM - landing and nav/strobe LED lights (messydeer) 3. 03:26 PM - Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators (user9253) 4. 06:21 PM - Engine Ground (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net) 5. 07:35 PM - Re: Engine Ground (Charlie England) 6. 08:16 PM - Re: Rotax 914 Generator, Alternator, Starting and Fuel Pump Cont (user9253) 7. 08:32 PM - Re: Rotax 914 Generator, Alternator, Starting and Fuel Pump Cont (user9253) 8. 08:43 PM - Re: landing and nav/strobe LED lights (user9253) 9. 09:04 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 914 Generator, Alternator, Starting and Fuel Pump Cont (Ken Ryan) 10. 11:18 PM - Re: landing and nav/strobe LED lights (messydeer) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:52 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators From: Paul Eckenroth I like the revised schematic in that it is breaking the AC feed from the dynamo and therefore eliminating any concern about what the regulator will do with the AC current when it is not engaged. However, a failure in the charging circuit that causes the crowbar to trip the AC current will probably be in the regulator. You will still have battery voltage back feeding the regulator through the B tab. Can that create any problems. Is there a reason that the capacitor is in the position shown. I would have thought it should be attached to the B output since it's purpose is to smooth out the voltage output. The Onex is a small aerobatic plane that will be flown VFR daytime only. However it will be equipped so it can be flown at night and escape from any inadvertent VFR into IIFR situations. As such and with the backup generator and independent ignitiion I don't feel that a E bus is needed. I welcome all input. Paul On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 4:10 PM, user9253 wrote: > > I revised my schematic and attached it. > The relays now switch the AC. All electrical power can be shut off on the > engine side of the firewall. > The DC output from each regulator is fused separately so that a fault in > one will not disable the other one. > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452147#452147 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/revmaster5a_214.pdf > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:28:11 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: landing and nav/strobe LED lights From: "messydeer" Hey! I have a Sonex flying...er in the hangar now I hope...and want to put LED lights in it. I've seen some nav/pos/strobe lights from Aveo https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveopowerburst.php which are $500 a pair. I think it could be more than I want to tackle to fab something like that and may just buy them off the shelf. Landing lights seem easier to fab. I'll be looking for a single very bright LED light array. maybe as simple as getting one from Mauser. Any idea how bright 'bright' is? I see that Duckworks lists their 2nd tier LED light at 320,000 candlepower. I've also seen PAR36 listed, which I believe is the pattern lights shoot. Duckworks also mentions 'no RF interference', which makes me wonder if there'd normally be a problem without some fix. Suggestions? -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452173#452173 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:26:36 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators From: "user9253" > will still have battery voltage back feeding the > regulator through the B tab When I turn on the master switch on my RV-12 and before starting the Rotax, battery voltage is being back fed to the regulator B terminal. Of course the regulator is in working condition. Who knows what regulator failure modes there are besides low voltage. I do not think that it matters much where the capacitor is connected to the positive supply as long as it is connected whenever the alternator is working. I think it is a good idea to use a fuse or circuit breaker to protect the electrical system against the capacitor shorting. The E-Bus is the main feature of Bob's designs that improves upon legacy aircraft electrical systems. It provides an alternate current path if the main path fails. I recommend it. I have attached another schematic that incorporates some ideas suggested by others. I am not necessarily recommending it. The design has an additional circuit breaker and an additional capacitor. It is more complicated to wire, but from a pilot's perspective, there is still one alternator switch and one master switch. If there is a concern about the master switch failing, then install 2 of them next to each other wired in parallel. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452175#452175 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/revmaster6a_153.pdf ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:31 PM PST US From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net Subject: AeroElectric-List: Engine Ground I happened to be helping repair a Cessna 170-B and noticed the engine ground was routed only about 4" aft of the rubber mounts and attached to a tab on the motor mount in lieu of the firewall. This saved a few feet of heavy wire and a few ounces. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:03 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Engine Ground From: Charlie England On 1/21/2016 8:09 PM, BobbyPaulk@comcast.net wrote: > I happened to be helping repair a Cessna 170-B and noticed the engine > ground was routed only about 4" aft of the rubber mounts and attached > to a tab on the motor mount in lieu of the firewall. This saved a few > feet of heavy wire and a few ounces. > > And added several tenths of an ohm to the resistance of the starting circuit. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:16:07 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Rotax 914 Generator, Alternator, Starting and Fuel Pump Cont From: "user9253" In case of over voltage the 5 amp fuse will blow before the 5 amp breaker. Eliminate the fuse. The note on the drawing says that the main bus can be separated from the battery. If that means to shut off the master, I do not know why anyone would want to do that. I suggest adding a relay and lamp to indicate that the 20 amp dynamo is not working. Red lamp should go out when rectifier/regulator is working. See attached pdf. When the momentary push button switch is first pressed, the 5 amp fuse will carry current to fuel pump #1 before the rectifier/regulator puts out full voltage. That fuse could blow if not rated to handle the fuel pump current. Resize the rectifier/regulator fuse from 20 amps to whatever the pump requires. 10 amps? -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452186#452186 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/rotax_914_pump_138.pdf ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:46 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Rotax 914 Generator, Alternator, Starting and Fuel Pump Cont From: "user9253" Actually the relay is not even needed. The lamp will illuminate per the attached pdf if the voltage is not equal at the two points where the lamp connects. The fuel pump will pass lamp current to ground. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452187#452187 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/rotax_914_pump_337.pdf ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:43:29 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: landing and nav/strobe LED lights From: "user9253" This website explains the difference between candlepower and lumens: http://www.flashlightuniversity.com/lumens-vs-candlepower/ I could be wrong but believe that candlepower is misleading marketing hype. Lumens is what should be compared. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452188#452188 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:04:00 PM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Rotax 914 Generator, Alternator, Starting and Fuel Pump Cont Thanks Joe for your comments. Here are my comments on your comments: 1. In case of over voltage the 5 amp fuse will blow before the 5 amp breaker. Eliminate the fuse. Okay, I didn't think of this. My "Bus" is a fuseblock so there is automatically a fuse associated with each circuit. Maybe I could put a 10 amp fuse in there, and then keep the 5 amp breaker for overvoltage protection? The alternative would be to break this circuit out of the fuseblock. Seems easier to just use a larger fuse. 2. The note on the drawing says that the main bus can be separated from the battery. If that means to shut off the master, I do not know why anyone would want to do that. Simple answer--smoke in the cockpit. In that case the #1 priority is to try to stop the fire. First step, shut down all the electric not necessary to keep the engine running. Hit the master, which opens the battery relay, which shuts down all the circuits except the main fuel pump. 3. I suggest adding a relay and lamp to indicate that the 20 amp dynamo is not working. I have Dynon Skyview with the ability to monitor two voltage sources. I would think this would be sufficient to monitor the health of the 20 amp integrated generator. 4. When the momentary push button switch is first pressed, the 5 amp fuse will carry current to fuel pump #1 before the rectifier/regulator puts out full voltage. I didn't think of this either. I should make that a 10 amp fuse. Five amps would "probably" work but it is too close to the edge for a critical component. 5. Resize the rectifier/regulator fuse from 20 amps to whatever the pump requires. 10 amps? On that circuit I am showing a 5 amp fuse at the bus and a 20 amp circuit breaker on the panel. We have already agreed (in #4 above) that the fuse should be 10 amp. The 20 amp breaker is really only there to give me a way to shut down the integrated generator if necessary. Is there any good reason it should be 10 amp instead of 20 amp? Seems like either one would be fine. Thanks for your comments. Hope you follow up, and hope others will chime in too. On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 7:12 PM, user9253 wrote: > > In case of over voltage the 5 amp fuse will blow before the 5 > amp breaker. Eliminate the fuse. > The note on the drawing says that the main bus can be separated > from the battery. If that means to shut off the master, I do > not know why anyone would want to do that. > I suggest adding a relay and lamp to indicate that the 20 amp > dynamo is not working. Red lamp should go out when > rectifier/regulator is working. See attached pdf. > When the momentary push button switch is first pressed, the 5 > amp fuse will carry current to fuel pump #1 before the > rectifier/regulator puts out full voltage. That fuse could > blow if not rated to handle the fuel pump current. > Resize the rectifier/regulator fuse from 20 amps to whatever > the pump requires. 10 amps? > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452186#452186 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/rotax_914_pump_138.pdf > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:18:59 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: landing and nav/strobe LED lights From: "messydeer" Thanks, Joe :-) Good to hear from you again! Dan -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452190#452190 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.