Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:28 AM - Collie Hat Switches (Werner Schneider)
2. 03:09 AM - Re: SD-20 became BC410-H? (Carlos Trigo)
3. 03:19 AM - Re: Collie Hat Switches (Carlos Trigo)
4. 04:40 AM - Re: SD-20 became BC410-H? (Ralph E. Capen)
5. 06:39 AM - Re: Collie Hat Switches (ashleysc@broadstripe.net)
6. 09:15 AM - Re: Re: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator (was Difference between LR3C and SB1A regulators) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 02:37 PM - Re: Re: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator (Carlos Trigo)
8. 03:14 PM - Re: Re: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator (Eric Page)
9. 03:40 PM - Re: Re: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator (Carlos Trigo)
10. 05:05 PM - Re: Re: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator (Eric Page)
11. 06:43 PM - Re: Re: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator (Charlie England)
12. 10:32 PM - Re: Re: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator (Werner Schneider)
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Subject: | Collie Hat Switches |
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Subject: | SD-20 became BC410-H? |
Ralph
I had the same doubt a couple of weeks ago, and Greg Jones (G.M. of B&C) co
nfirmed that they renamed the SD-20, it is now called BC410-H.
Carlos
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectr
ic-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
Sent: segunda-feira, 1 de Fevereiro de 2016 15:52
Subject: AeroElectric-List: SD-20 became BC410-H?
--> < <mailto:recapen@earthlink.net> recapen@earthlink.net>
Going through my previous invoices to get a spare shear coupling for my vac
uum pad alternator, my invoice shows a SD-20. B and C no longer has that u
nit available - they show a BC410-H.
Is this a new superseding part number?
Thanks,
Ralph
ldersbooks.com
om/contribution
www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
om/contribution
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Subject: | Collie Hat Switches |
Werner
I suppose that the guy who sells the Infinity Stick grip also sells the
components, including the Hat switch.
Try http://infinityaerospace.com
Cheers
Carlos
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Werner
Schneider
Sent: ter=E7a-feira, 2 de Fevereiro de 2016 09:27
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Collie Hat Switches
I would like to pull the lists wisdom and knowledge.
My dad creates the stick grips out of cherry wood (I have already a pair in
my Glastar (don't put the mic key on top!)),
now for the RV10 you have 2 electric trims, one version would be two
switches in the panel, but I like to sit in flying position to trim, so a
collie hat would be the ideal scenario for me.
What is the list experience (this will be low amps as no direct drive) with
that kind of switches? Any sources for it (found some from Digikey).
Many thanks for your ideas, hints, tips coming....
Cheers Werner
---
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Subject: | SD-20 became BC410-H? |
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Subject: | Re: Collie Hat Switches |
Hi Werner;
Beautiful stick grip!=C2- Questions:
1.=C2- Does your Dad do these commercially (i.e. for sale to others)?
2.=C2- Is it an ambidextrous design?=C2- (I fly with either hand on the
grip.)
3.=C2- I would only want a coolie hat on top and a push to talk toggle in
front.
4.=C2- I need two grips.
If yes to all these questions, perhaps we could take the conversation off-l
ine.
Cheers!=C2-=C2- Stu.
ashleysc@broadstripe.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Werner Schneider" <glastar@gmx.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 1:26:35 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Collie Hat Switches
I would like to pull the lists wisdom and knowledge.
My dad creates the stick grips out of cherry wood (I have already a pair in
my Glastar (don't put the mic key on top!)),
=C2-now for the RV10 you have 2 electric trims, one version would be two
switches in the panel, but I like to sit in flying position to trim, so a c
ollie hat would be the ideal scenario for me.
What is the list experience (this will be low amps as no direct drive) with
that kind of switches? Any sources for it (found some from Digikey).
Many thanks for your ideas, hints, tips coming....
Cheers Werner
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: RE: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator |
(was Difference between LR3C and SB1A regulators)
At 05:33 AM 2/1/2016, you wrote:
>Well, scratching my head about this thread, I
>came up with a brilliant idea on how to manage a 2-alternator system.
>(most probably there were hundreds of other
>people, before me, who had the same idea=85)
>
>Let me put it out to you, anyway
>
>According to the second option I made in my last
>post (below), flying normally with the MAIN ALT
>field switch On, and the BackUp ALT field switch Off.
>When the pilot is warned that no current is
>flowing from the MAIN ALT, he shall turn Off the
>MAIN ALT field and manually turn On the Backup ALT field.
>
>How about designing a circuit that, when the
>pilot turns Off the MAIN ALT field,
>automatically the BackUp ALT field is turned On?
>
>Ideas welcome!
>
That's pretty much what the LR3C/SB1 combination does . . .
but the 'magic' is in the monitoring and annunciation
system built into the SB1.
You COULD simply use two LR3C regulators in a Z-12
style installation. But if your ship's loads are less
than 20A, then the failure would not be noticed.
The core ideas behind the SB1 called for annunciation
of the failure combined with a simple means for
prompting the pilot to reduce loads to under 20A.
This protcol is consistent with design goals in TC
aircraft to not allow a failure to go un-announced
-AND- to provide crew with information for keeping
stand-by alternator within rated limits.
This was necessary to smooth the STC process for
putting a Z-12 like system on a TC aircraft. We
have more latitude in OBAM aircraft . . . the
owner can install current instrumentation on the
s/b alternator, then run two LR3C regulators, both
set for 14.2, and leave the s/b system OFF in
normal ops.
Lost of main alternator would be annunciated by
LOW VOLTS warning whereupon the pilot moves a
couple of switches and monitors instrumentation
to do a load reduction.
After 40+ years of working in FMEA and cockpit
protocols, I am reluctant to automate much of
anything. Adding automation increases parts count.
It must be applied carefully such that some
automatic function doesn't hide useful/critical
information from the pilot. Last, it needs to
add value. If you're cruising along 200 miles
out of destination and the low voltage light
comes on, you have plenty of time to accomplish
a prudent response . . . finish your cup of
coffee. Making a 3-seconds-or-less run through
the flipping of switches will not have any
appreciable benefit for reducing risk in the
outcome of your flight.
Hence, my long repeated advice of keep it simple
to minimize cost of ownership, weight and
cockpit complexities that call for any other
pilot, particularly the next owner, to acquire
new understanding.
Electro-whizzies on the panel are constantly
driving up risk of distraction from operation
of the airplane. It has been the well seasoned
goal of airframe designers not to drive up
system complexities any more than absolutely
necessary . . . vagaries in fuel system
operations on Barons buried more than
a few propellers in the dirt . . . I think it
was the Aerostar fuel system that made for
several bad days in the cockpit too.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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Subject: | RE: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator |
Thanks again for your eloquent explanations.
However, I probably didn=92t make myself clear about my idea.
In my system (switches working through the VP-X box), turning Off the MAIN
Alternator field switch means interrupting a ground wire.
And turning On the Standby Alternator means connecting a ground wire.
(Switches in the Vertical Power system work by connecting or disconnecting
ground to the assigned pins in their red box)
Therefore, what I need to design is simply an electrical way to accomplish
the following action:
when I flip the Main ALT switch to Off (interrupting a ground wire), this
same action automatically connects the ground wire that switches the STBY
ALT field
Is there a simple and elegant solution to do this?
Cheers
Carlos
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L
=2E
Nuckolls, III
Sent: ter=E7a-feira, 2 de Fevereiro de 2016 17:13
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Automatic way to turn On the Standby
alternator (was Difference between LR3C and SB1A regulators)
At 05:33 AM 2/1/2016, you wrote:
Well, scratching my head about this thread, I came up with a brilliant idea
on how to manage a 2-alternator system.
(most probably there were hundreds of other people, before me, who had the
same idea=85)
Let me put it out to you, anyway
According to the second option I made in my last post (below), flying
normally with the MAIN ALT field switch On, and the BackUp ALT field switch
Off.
When the pilot is warned that no current is flowing from the MAIN ALT, he
shall turn Off the MAIN ALT field and manually turn On the Backup ALT field
=2E
How about designing a circuit that, when the pilot turns Off the MAIN ALT
field, automatically the BackUp ALT field is turned On?
Ideas welcome!
That's pretty much what the LR3C/SB1 combination does . . .
but the 'magic' is in the monitoring and annunciation
system built into the SB1.
You COULD simply use two LR3C regulators in a Z-12
style installation. But if your ship's loads are less
than 20A, then the failure would not be noticed.
The core ideas behind the SB1 called for annunciation
of the failure combined with a simple means for
prompting the pilot to reduce loads to under 20A.
This protcol is consistent with design goals in TC
aircraft to not allow a failure to go un-announced
-AND- to provide crew with information for keeping
stand-by alternator within rated limits.
This was necessary to smooth the STC process for
putting a Z-12 like system on a TC aircraft. We
have more latitude in OBAM aircraft . . . the
owner can install current instrumentation on the
s/b alternator, then run two LR3C regulators, both
set for 14.2, and leave the s/b system OFF in
normal ops.
Lost of main alternator would be annunciated by
LOW VOLTS warning whereupon the pilot moves a
couple of switches and monitors instrumentation
to do a load reduction.
After 40+ years of working in FMEA and cockpit
protocols, I am reluctant to automate much of
anything. Adding automation increases parts count.
It must be applied carefully such that some
automatic function doesn't hide useful/critical
information from the pilot. Last, it needs to
add value. If you're cruising along 200 miles
out of destination and the low voltage light
comes on, you have plenty of time to accomplish
a prudent response . . . finish your cup of
coffee. Making a 3-seconds-or-less run through
the flipping of switches will not have any
appreciable benefit for reducing risk in the
outcome of your flight.
Hence, my long repeated advice of keep it simple
to minimize cost of ownership, weight and
cockpit complexities that call for any other
pilot, particularly the next owner, to acquire
new understanding.
Electro-whizzies on the panel are constantly
driving up risk of distraction from operation
of the airplane. It has been the well seasoned
goal of airframe designers not to drive up
system complexities any more than absolutely
necessary . . . vagaries in fuel system
operations on Barons buried more than
a few propellers in the dirt . . . I think it
was the Aerostar fuel system that made for
several bad days in the cockpit too.
Bob . . .
---
Este e-mail foi verificado em termos de v=EDrus pelo software antiv=EDrus A
vast.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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Subject: | Re: RE: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator |
Yes, a single-pole double-throw, ON-ON switch. Ground on the common tab, ma
in alternator control to your VP-X on one side, standby on the other. This w
ill, of course, offer no way to disable both alternators simultaneously, unl
ess you use an ON-OFF-ON switch.
Eric
> On Feb 2, 2016, at 2:35 PM, Carlos Trigo <trigo@mail.telepac.pt> wrote:
> Thanks again for your eloquent explanations.
> However, I probably didn=99t make myself clear about my idea.
>
> In my system (switches working through the VP-X box), turning Off the MAIN
Alternator field switch means interrupting a ground wire.
> And turning On the Standby Alternator means connecting a ground wire.
> (Switches in the Vertical Power system work by connecting or disconnecting
ground to the assigned pins in their red box)
>
> Therefore, what I need to design is simply an electrical way to accomplish
the following action:
> when I flip the Main ALT switch to Off (interrupting a ground wire), thi
s same action automatically connects the ground wire that switches the STBY A
LT field
>
> Is there a simple and elegant solution to do this?
>
> Cheers
> Carlos
Message 9
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Subject: | RE: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator |
Eric
That is brilliantly simple!
Do you think this is a reliable solution?
And, in your opinion, should I have the possibility of turning OFF both alt
ernators simultaneously?
CT
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectr
ic-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Page
Sent: ter=C3=A7a-feira, 2 de Fevereiro de 2016 23:13
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Automatic way to turn On the Standby al
ternator
Yes, a single-pole double-throw, ON-ON switch. Ground on the common tab, m
ain alternator control to your VP-X on one side, standby on the other. Thi
s will, of course, offer no way to disable both alternators simultaneously,
unless you use an ON-OFF-ON switch.
Eric
On Feb 2, 2016, at 2:35 PM, Carlos Trigo <trigo@mail.telepac.pt> wrote:
Thanks again for your eloquent explanations.
However, I probably didn=99t make myself clear about my idea.
In my system (switches working through the VP-X box), turning Off the MAIN
Alternator field switch means interrupting a ground wire.
And turning On the Standby Alternator means connecting a ground wire.
(Switches in the Vertical Power system work by connecting or disconnecting
ground to the assigned pins in their red box)
Therefore, what I need to design is simply an electrical way to accomplish
the following action:
when I flip the Main ALT switch to Off (interrupting a ground wire), this
same action automatically connects the ground wire that switches the STBY
ALT field
Is there a simple and elegant solution to do this?
Cheers
Carlos
---
Este e-mail foi verificado em termos de v=C3=ADrus pelo software antiv=C3
=ADrus Avast.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: RE: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator |
I suppose it will be as reliable as the quality of the switch and wiring you
use. Buy a high quality switch like the B&C S700-1-3 (ON-ON) or S700-1-1 (
ON-OFF-ON), use connectors and techniques as advised in the Connection book a
nd it should last longer than all of us.
Since I've never designed an aircraft electrical system, much less built one
, I'll leave it others to advise whether you should be able to turn both alt
ernators off. Bob?
Eric
> On Feb 2, 2016, at 3:39 PM, Carlos Trigo <trigo@mail.telepac.pt> wrote:
> Eric
>
> That is brilliantly simple!
> Do you think this is a reliable solution?
>
> And, in your opinion, should I have the possibility of turning OFF both al
ternators simultaneously?
>
> CT
>
>
>
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelect
ric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Page
> Sent: ter=C3=A7a-feira, 2 de Fevereiro de 2016 23:13
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Automatic way to turn On the Standby a
lternator
>
> Yes, a single-pole double-throw, ON-ON switch. Ground on the common tab, m
ain alternator control to your VP-X on one side, standby on the other. This
will, of course, offer no way to disable both alternators simultaneously, u
nless you use an ON-OFF-ON switch.
>
> Eric
>
>
> On Feb 2, 2016, at 2:35 PM, Carlos Trigo <trigo@mail.telepac.pt> wrote:
> Thanks again for your eloquent explanations.
> However, I probably didn=99t make myself clear about my idea.
>
> In my system (switches working through the VP-X box), turning Off the MAIN
Alternator field switch means interrupting a ground wire.
> And turning On the Standby Alternator means connecting a ground wire.
> (Switches in the Vertical Power system work by connecting or disconnecting
ground to the assigned pins in their red box)
>
> Therefore, what I need to design is simply an electrical way to accomplish
the following action:
> when I flip the Main ALT switch to Off (interrupting a ground wire), thi
s same action automatically connects the ground wire that switches the STBY A
LT field
>
> Is there a simple and elegant solution to do this?
>
> Cheers
> Carlos
> Este e-mail foi enviado a partir de um computador sem v=C3=ADrus protegido
pela Avast.
> www.avast.com
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Subject: | Re: RE: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator |
A mechanical failure in that single switch could take out both
alternators. is that acceptable?
Needing to turn both off would imply that both have failed 'shorted' and
are trying to drain the battery. Not likely, but separate switches fix
that, too.
Charlie
On 2/2/2016 5:39 PM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
>
> Eric
>
> That is brilliantly simple!
>
> Do you think this is a reliable solution?
>
> And, in your opinion, should I have the possibility of turning OFF
> both alternators simultaneously?
>
> CT
>
> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Eric Page
> *Sent:* tera-feira, 2 de Fevereiro de 2016 23:13
> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Automatic way to turn On the
> Standby alternator
>
> Yes, a single-pole double-throw, ON-ON switch. Ground on the common
> tab, main alternator control to your VP-X on one side, standby on the
> other. This will, of course, offer no way to disable both alternators
> simultaneously, unless you use an ON-OFF-ON switch.
>
> Eric
>
>
> On Feb 2, 2016, at 2:35 PM, Carlos Trigo <trigo@mail.telepac.pt
> <mailto:trigo@mail.telepac.pt>> wrote:
>
> Thanks again for your eloquent explanations.
>
> However, I probably didnt make myself clear about my idea.
>
> In my system (switches working through the VP-X box), turning Off
> the MAIN Alternator field switch means interrupting a ground wire.
>
> And turning On the Standby Alternator means connecting a ground wire.
>
> (Switches in the Vertical Power system work by connecting or
> disconnecting ground to the assigned pins in their red box)
>
> Therefore, what I need to design is simply an electrical way to
> accomplish the following action:
>
> when I flip the Main ALT switch to Off (interrupting a ground
> wire), this same action automatically connects the ground wire
> that switches the STBY ALT field
>
> Is there a simple and elegant solution to do this?
>
> Cheers
>
> Carlos
>
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Subject: | Re: RE: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator |
Carlos,
can't the VP-X do that logic, did you check with them?
Cheers Werner
On 02.02.2016 23:35, Carlos Trigo wrote:
> Thanks again for your eloquent explanations.
>
> However, I probably didnt make myself clear about my idea.
>
> In my system (switches working through the VP-X box), turning Off the
> MAIN Alternator field switch means interrupting a ground wire.
>
> And turning On the Standby Alternator means connecting a ground wire.
>
> (Switches in the Vertical Power system work by connecting or
> disconnecting ground to the assigned pins in their red box)
>
> Therefore, what I need to design is simply an electrical way to
> accomplish the following action:
>
> when I flip the Main ALT switch to Off (interrupting a ground wire),
> this same action automatically connects the ground wire that switches
> the STBY ALT field
>
> Is there a simple and elegant solution to do this?
>
> Cheers
>
> Carlos
>
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