---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 02/03/16: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:31 AM - Re: Re: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 05:31 AM - Re: Re: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 06:52 AM - Re: Re: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator (Carlos Trigo) 4. 07:14 AM - Re: Re: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator (John B) 5. 07:19 AM - Re: Re: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator (Rene) 6. 07:32 AM - Re: Re: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator (Charlie England) 7. 08:13 AM - Re: Collie Hat Switches (Christopher Cee Stone) 8. 09:23 AM - Re: Re: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 10:11 AM - Re: Re: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator (Rick Beebe) 10. 10:33 AM - Re: Re: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator (Carlos Trigo) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:31:01 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator >Since I've never designed an aircraft electrical system, much less >built one, I'll leave it others to advise whether you should be able >to turn both alternators off. Bob? Smoke in the cockpit? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:31:33 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator At 08:43 PM 2/2/2016, you wrote: >A mechanical failure in that single switch could take out both >alternators. is that acceptable? > >Needing to turn both off would imply that both have failed 'shorted' >and are trying to drain the battery. Not likely, but separate >switches fix that, too. Turning an alternator OFF only deprives it of field excitation. A 'shorted' alternator draining a battery has problems in the rectifier assembly . . . your b-lead fault protection is ten tasked with isolating the alterntor from the battery. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:21 AM PST US From: "Carlos Trigo" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator Bob I imply from your (very short) answer that I must be able to turn off both alternators in flight, right? Carlos From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L =2E Nuckolls, III Sent: quarta-feira, 3 de Fevereiro de 2016 13:27 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator Since I've never designed an aircraft electrical system, much less built one, I'll leave it others to advise whether you should be able to turn both alternators off. Bob? Smoke in the cockpit? Bob . . . --- Este e-mail foi verificado em termos de v=C3=ADrus pelo software antiv=C3 =ADrus Avast. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:18 AM PST US From: John B Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator If one has two alternators in their electrical system, it makes sense to have each alternator operated by a simple on-off switch. Operate it like this; Leave alternator 1 on, until it fails, which will be immediately indicated by a low voltage light and confirmed with a low voltage indication. After it fails, turn it off, and then turn on alternator number 2. Separation of the alternators will prevent, or at least discourage, most cascading failures. This is a light airplane, and a complex, automated system with load shed capability is not necessary. In fact, it might not even be desirable. Remember that one must maintain and repair this system in the future... Will the next technician understand what has been created? How will any system diagnosis be done? Keep the alternator systems separate and these future concerns will be easier to deal with. On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 7:51 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote: > Bob > > > I imply from your (very short) answer that I must be able to turn off bot h > alternators in flight, right? > > > Carlos > > > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert L. > Nuckolls, III > *Sent:* quarta-feira, 3 de Fevereiro de 2016 13:27 > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Automatic way to turn On the > Standby alternator > > > Since I've never designed an aircraft electrical system, much less built > one, I'll leave it others to advise whether you should be able to turn bo th > alternators off. Bob? > > > Smoke in the cockpit? > > > Bob . . . > Este e-mail foi enviado a partir de um computador sem v=C3=ADrus protegid o pela > Avast. > www.avast.com > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:42 AM PST US From: "Rene" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator I would say yes. Most A/C have a master switch of some kind so that all power can be removed. Depending on how you wire it..the master switch may or may not do the job. I elected to have separate switches to control the Alternators. I can run them at the same time, but my backup is set lower so I am guessing it would never contribute as long as the primary was working. I also have extra battery power..I really do not need an alternator to finish any reasonable flight. With a little load shedding I am good for 2-3 hours. Unless I lose my alternator on take off at night.I am all set for any flight I take. BTW, I have tested this in real conditions twice and it works fine. I changed my alternator to a 70 amp version but did not change the breaker. I don=99t know how because I do not have 70 amps worth of load, but the 60 amp break tripped twice on a long cross country when I transmitted shortly after takeoff. No problems since I upgraded the breaker. Both flights were completed on the backup battery with the main battery being used as a reserve. (main battery is a 925 and backup is a 680) I have an 8 amp backup alternator which does not keep up with basic loadbut extends the flight time way past the fuel limit. Rene' 801-721-6080 From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 7:51 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator Bob I imply from your (very short) answer that I must be able to turn off both alternators in flight, right? Carlos From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: quarta-feira, 3 de Fevereiro de 2016 13:27 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator Since I've never designed an aircraft electrical system, much less built one, I'll leave it others to advise whether you should be able to turn both alternators off. Bob? Smoke in the cockpit? Bob . . . Este e-mail foi enviado a partir de um computador sem v=C3=ADrus protegido pela Avast. www.avast.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:45 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator From: Charlie England Rene', if your battery is a bit down from sitting a while, then starting, the alt might well try to supply its full rated amps when engine rpm comes up enough to power it to full output. 60A breaker on 70A alternator, done.... On 2/3/2016 9:18 AM, Rene wrote: > > I would say yes. Most A/C have a master switch of some kind so that > all power can be removed. Depending on how you wire it..the master > switch may or may not do the job. > > I elected to have separate switches to control the Alternators. I can > run them at the same time, but my backup is set lower so I am guessing > it would never contribute as long as the primary was working. I also > have extra battery power..I really do not need an alternator to > finish any reasonable flight. With a little load shedding I am good > for 2-3 hours. Unless I lose my alternator on take off at night.I am > all set for any flight I take. > > BTW, I have tested this in real conditions twice and it works fine. I > changed my alternator to a 70 amp version but did not change the > breaker. I dont know how because I do not have 70 amps worth of > load, but the 60 amp break tripped twice on a long cross country when > I transmitted shortly after takeoff. No problems since I upgraded the > breaker. Both flights were completed on the backup battery with the > main battery being used as a reserve. (main battery is a 925 and > backup is a 680) I have an 8 amp backup alternator which does not > keep up with basic loadbut extends the flight time way past the fuel > limit. > > Rene' > > 801-721-6080 > > *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *Carlos Trigo > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 03, 2016 7:51 AM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Automatic way to turn On the > Standby alternator > > Bob > > I imply from your (very short) answer that I must be able to turn off > both alternators in flight, right? > > Carlos > > *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *Robert L. Nuckolls, III > *Sent:* quarta-feira, 3 de Fevereiro de 2016 13:27 > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > > *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Automatic way to turn On the > Standby alternator > > Since I've never designed an aircraft electrical system, much less > built one, I'll leave it others to advise whether you should be > able to turn both alternators off. Bob? > > > Smoke in the cockpit? > > > Bob . . . > > Este e-mail foi enviado a partir de um computador sem vrus protegido > pela Avast. > www.avast.com > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:13:32 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Collie Hat Switches From: Christopher Cee Stone Otto switch has many to chose from. Aerospace quality... aerospace price too! http://www.ottoexcellence.com/products/4-way-mini-trim/ -Chris Stone RV-8 80802 On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:26 AM, Werner Schneider wrote: > I would like to pull the lists wisdom and knowledge. > > My dad creates the stick grips out of cherry wood (I have already a pair > in my Glastar (don't put the mic key on top!)), > > now for the RV10 you have 2 electric trims, one version would be two > switches in the panel, but I like to sit in flying position to trim, so a > collie hat would be the ideal scenario for me. > > What is the list experience (this will be low amps as no direct drive) > with that kind of switches? Any sources for it (found some from Digikey). > > Many thanks for your ideas, hints, tips coming.... > > Cheers Werner > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:23:22 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator At 08:51 AM 2/3/2016, you wrote: >Bob > >I imply from your (very short) answer that I must be able to turn >off both alternators in flight, right? Your choice. The probability is rare but not zero. In a TC aircraft, ABSOLUTE control over all ship's power sources is a requirement. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:11:08 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator From: Rick Beebe Two weeks ago I had the beginnings of an electrical fire in the cockpit so turning off ALL sources of power to the panel is a very important safety feature to me. A pin in a nylon connector (AMP Mate N Lock connector) came loose and overheated melting the connector and releasing a cloud of smoke. I hit the master and it stopped. To be fair I later discovered the breaker had also popped but if it hadn't I could have had a really really bad situation. --Rick On 02/03/2016 12:21 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > At 08:51 AM 2/3/2016, you wrote: >> Bob >> >> I imply from your (very short) answer that I must be able to turn off >> both alternators in flight, right? > > Your choice. The probability is rare but > not zero. In a TC aircraft, ABSOLUTE control > over all ship's power sources is a > requirement. > > Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:33:09 AM PST US From: Carlos Trigo Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Automatic way to turn On the Standby alternator Ok, ok, don't shoot! I will put 2 separate switches... Thanks to all Carlos Enviado do meu iPhone No dia 03/02/2016, s 18:09, Rick Beebe escreveu: > > Two weeks ago I had the beginnings of an electrical fire in the cockpit so turning off ALL sources of power to the panel is a very important safety feature to me. > > A pin in a nylon connector (AMP Mate N Lock connector) came loose and overheated melting the connector and releasing a cloud of smoke. I hit the master and it stopped. To be fair I later discovered the breaker had also popped but if it hadn't I could have had a really really bad situation. > > --Rick > >> On 02/03/2016 12:21 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >> At 08:51 AM 2/3/2016, you wrote: >>> Bob >>> >>> I imply from your (very short) answer that I must be able to turn off >>> both alternators in flight, right? >> >> Your choice. The probability is rare but >> not zero. In a TC aircraft, ABSOLUTE control >> over all ship's power sources is a >> requirement. >> >> Bob . . . > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.