Today's Message Index:
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1. 01:59 AM - Re: Shower of sparks vibrator? (Bob Verwey)
2. 05:40 AM - Re: Shower of sparks vibrator? (Kelly McMullen)
3. 05:58 AM - Re: Antennas - transponder and ADS-B (Kent or Jackie Ashton)
4. 05:58 AM - Re: Antennas - transponder and ADS-B (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 07:17 AM - Re: Antennas - transponder and ADS-B ()
6. 08:52 AM - Re: Shower of sparks vibrator? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Shower of sparks vibrator? |
...a data point....
I too, am new to this device, having previously only indulged in the
inpulse coupled mags.
I have the +12v supply to the SOS connected from the starter solenoid
energiser wire. At first I had my wiring with the twin toggle switches
mixed up, and was trouble shooting the system, and discovered that during
cranking the voltage to the SOS dropped to about 8.5v.
I then checked for resistance in the circuits but found none.
Despite what I perceive to be an excessive voltage drop, the engine fires
right up now without any problem with the mags wired correctly.
This is an IO 470, so it needs a happy battery to swing the prop. No
problems there, but I was suprised by the voltage drop. I did not measure
it at the starter terminal though ?
On 30 January 2016 at 15:39, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 06:04 AM 1/30/2016, you wrote:
>
> Please forgive my ignorance but, what is a =9CShower of sparks vibr
ator=9D?
>
> CT
>
>
> Its a component of probably the finest enhancement
> to magneto ignition systems ever developed . . .
>
> http://tinyurl.com/gn584wt
>
> in particular, this article published on AeroElectric.com
> about 20 years ago has been updated with two new wiring
> diagrams
>
> http://tinyurl.com/cmoozj
>
> Bob . . .
>
--
Best...
Bob Verwey
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Shower of sparks vibrator? |
Ideally you want to be able to turn on power to the vibrator before the
engine cranks, both to know it is working (audible) and to be able to
hand prop in emergency. Some do it with toggle switch, or most ignition
switches of the push to start variety have power to vibrator when turned
full right, then you push to engage starter. With vibrator powered only
when starter is cranking, you can't hear whether it is working or not.
On 2/9/2016 2:57 AM, Bob Verwey wrote:
> ...a data point....
>
> I too, am new to this device, having previously only indulged in the
> inpulse coupled mags.
> I have the +12v supply to the SOS connected from the starter solenoid
> energiser wire. At first I had my wiring with the twin toggle switches
> mixed up, and was trouble shooting the system, and discovered that
> during cranking the voltage to the SOS dropped to about 8.5v.
>
> I then checked for resistance in the circuits but found none.
> Despite what I perceive to be an excessive voltage drop, the engine
> fires right up now without any problem with the mags wired correctly.
>
> This is an IO 470, so it needs a happy battery to swing the prop. No
> problems there, but I was suprised by the voltage drop. I did not
> measure it at the starter terminal though ?
>
>
> On 30 January 2016 at 15:39, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com <mailto:nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>>
> wrote:
>
> At 06:04 AM 1/30/2016, you wrote:
>> Please forgive my ignorance but, what is a Shower of sparks
>> vibrator?
>>
>> CT
>
> Its a component of probably the finest enhancement
> to magneto ignition systems ever developed . . .
>
> http://tinyurl.com/gn584wt
>
> in particular, this article published on AeroElectric.com
> about 20 years ago has been updated with two new wiring
> diagrams
>
> http://tinyurl.com/cmoozj
>
> __
>
> __ Bob . . .
>
>
> --
> Best...
> Bob Verwey
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Antennas - transponder and ADS-B |
Transponders do not like any long cable runs. They also want continuous line-of-sight
to the radar station. Even mounting an antenna in the nose of an EZ will
cause the radar to lose it when climbing away from the station. In a shallow
turn, the winglet position could be blocked by the fuel and engine. You might
get by with it under your seat or inside the fuselage but it is best on the
bottom of the airplane. You just dont want any metal or liquid-filled bags
(i.e. people) between the antenna and the station.
Sure you can change cable types in a run but itd be easy to strip the old RG-58
out and run RG-400 stranded.
-Kent
LEZ and Cozy
> On Feb 8, 2016, at 9:58 PM, ameyer <ameyer@mil-amax.com> wrote:
>
> Looking at getting rid of my external transponder antenna and putting two internal
collinear 4 element antennas in the winglets of my Long EZ.
>
> Right winglet already has my VHF com, so I figured sneaking the ADS-B antenna
in there would be okay, unless having those two that close is bad. Will transmitting
on the VHF smoke the ADS-B receiver (stratux)?
>
> Left winglet would get the transponder antenna. GTX327. Question is I need one
interconnect at the wing / fuselage interface and about 25 feet of cable. Garmin
says 1.5 dB loss max in the cable. Can I succeed here or is this not worth
the effort? I'm trying to get rid of the extra stuff hanging in the wind.
Any other suggestions of where to hide the transponder antenna?
>
> Other question... Current VHF is wired with rg58 I believe. Need to replace
a section of coax (radio to wing/fuselage joint), gotta use the same coax type,
right?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Antennas - transponder and ADS-B |
At 08:58 PM 2/8/2016, you wrote:
>Looking at getting rid of my external transponder antenna and
>putting two internal collinear 4 element antennas in the winglets of
>my Long EZ.
I presume this antenna will have been
qualified for performance?
>Right winglet already has my VHF com, so I figured sneaking the
>ADS-B antenna in there would be okay, unless having those two that
>close is bad. Will transmitting on the VHF smoke the ADS-B receiver (stratux)?
It might de-sensitize it but won't damage it.
>Left winglet would get the transponder antenna. GTX327. Question is
>I need one interconnect at the wing / fuselage interface and about
>25 feet of cable. Garmin says 1.5 dB loss max in the cable.
More than the "allowed loss" simply means that
you are less likely to be an active target
on the radar screen at extreme range . . .
which probably accounts for a tiny percentage
of operational conditions. But the distance
from the panel of an EZ to the wing tip is
substantial.
There is a handy cable loss calculator you
can exercise at
http://tinyurl.com/grzxvh8
As a WAG, assume 20' of RG58 at 1500 MHz
gets you 4 db of loss assuming only connectors
on ends . . . wing root connecter will add
a tad more. However, a run of LMR400 would
probably meet the 1.5 db loss target with
the extra connectors.
> Can I succeed here or is this not worth the effort? I'm trying
> to get rid of the extra stuff hanging in the wind. Any other
> suggestions of where to hide the transponder antenna?
The drag of the classic transponder antenna
would be hard to measure . . . you can calculate
it but it's pretty tiny. Whether or not it's
'worth it' is a judgement call. I have posited
that question about converting to lithium batteries
as well. In ten years or so, we'll probably have
enough builders with lithium track-records
that we can begin to put practical numbers
on 'worth it'.
>Other question... Current VHF is wired with rg58 I believe. Need
>to replace a section of coax (radio to wing/fuselage joint), gotta
>use the same coax type, right?
Nope, you can run mixed 'types' as long as
they are 50 ohm.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Antennas - transponder and ADS-B |
I=99ve had good results putting the ADS-B antenna inside the nose
of EZ-types. In the Berkuts, I put a simple rod/ball antenna inside the
nose wheel well, next to the strut, as low to the floor as possible
=93 no ground plane needed for receive only. Others I have put in
the nose area, as low to the floor as possible =93 just try to
imagine a shallow cone emanating from the antenna toward the ground and
place it as free of obstructions as possible. I even ground out a
depression in the nose floor sometimes to allow the ball of the antenna
touch the external skin.
I=99m not a big fan of putting the xponder antenna anywhere other
than the outside of the belly. As Ken points out, you get line of sight
blockage anywhere else. The best place I have found is the aft floor
above the belly brake with a hole in the brake to allow the antenna to
pass through. It is easiest to install, gives best performance, and
does reduce 1/3-1/2 of the antenna=99s drag area profile.
http://www.berkut13.com/berkut30.htm#transponder
If you insist on internalizing it, I would recommend the wing/strake
D-section pocket instead of the winglet. You=99ll get similar
blanking issues but it=99s far easier to install in that location
with a small ground plane. (not a fan, but workable)
-James
Berkut/Race 13
From: ameyer
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2016 8:58 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Antennas - transponder and ADS-B
Looking at getting rid of my external transponder antenna and putting
two internal collinear 4 element antennas in the winglets of my Long EZ.
Right winglet already has my VHF com, so I figured sneaking the ADS-B
antenna in there would be okay, unless having those two that close is
bad. Will transmitting on the VHF smoke the ADS-B receiver (stratux)?
Left winglet would get the transponder antenna. GTX327. Question is I
need one interconnect at the wing / fuselage interface and about 25 feet
of cable. Garmin says 1.5 dB loss max in the cable. Can I succeed here
or is this not worth the effort? I'm trying to get rid of the extra
stuff hanging in the wind. Any other suggestions of where to hide the
transponder antenna?
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Shower of sparks vibrator? |
At 03:57 AM 2/9/2016, you wrote:
>...a data point....
>
>I too, am new to this device, having previously only indulged in the
>inpulse coupled mags.
>I have the +12v supply to the SOS connected from the starter
>solenoid energiser wire. At first I had my wiring with the twin
>toggle switches mixed up, and was trouble shooting the system, and
>discovered that during cranking the voltage to the SOS dropped to about 8.5v.
Your battery is soggy, you've got
excessive wire drops, or a combination
of both.
The legacy battery performance test calls
for applying a load that pulls the battery
down to 9.0v at the terminals . . . then
hold that load for 15 seconds.
At the end of 15 seconds, read the ammeter.
This number represents your 'worst case'
cranking ability for that battery in its
present condition and temperature.
A PC680, or most of the 18 a.h. class
batteries will produced a load-test
number in excess of 500A . . . perhaps
as much as 750A.
Your engine probalby needs no more than
250A at nice flying weather temperatures
so a voltage measurement below 9v gives
rise to questions worth running to
ground.
>I then checked for resistance in the circuits but found none.
>Despite what I perceive to be an excessive voltage drop, the engine
>fires right up now without any problem with the mags wired correctly.
A legacy, electro-mechanical SOS vibrator
should perform down to 8v. After all,
its coil resistance is on the order of
0.5 ohms . . . the magneto coil in series
with is less. So even at low voltages
you observer, the correctly wired SOS
vibrator should buzz away and get
the engine lit off.
>This is an IO 470, so it needs a happy battery to swing the prop. No
>problems there, but I was suprised by the voltage drop. I did not
>measure it at the starter terminal though ?
Voltages during cranking are a difficult
number to capture. This is due to the
large swings in starter current draw
as the engine moves through compression
strokes. It's impossible to get meaningful
numbers with a digital voltmeter . . .
problematic with an analog meter.
One of PITS (pie in the sky) projects
I've been mulling over is a cranking
system analysis instrument. It would
have a 2 line, 16 character display
and a micro-controller that gathers
data throughout several blade passages
of a cranking operation and then display
average and worst case voltage values
for battery, starter, and selected
locations about the engine cranking
loop.
Such a device would allow a mechanic
to evaluate system performance and
spot particular items of interest
when it comes to allocating battery
resources during the cranking op.
In then mean time, the legacy 15-second
load test on your battery can tell you
a lot about its stand-alone condition.
Bob . . .
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