---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 04/01/16: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:21 AM - AEC2006 line filter (Jedge) 2. 05:38 AM - Re: AEC2006 line filter (user9253) 3. 05:47 AM - Re: AEC2006 line filter (user9253) 4. 05:54 AM - Re: AEC2006 line filter (user9253) 5. 06:19 AM - Re: Re: AEC2006 line filter (Charlie England) 6. 07:08 AM - Re: Re: AEC2006 line filter (Bob Verwey) 7. 07:30 AM - Re: D Sub Crimper Recommendation? (Stein Bruch) 8. 07:44 AM - Re: AEC2006 line filter (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 07:52 AM - Re: Re: AEC2006 line filter (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 07:52 AM - Re: D Sub Crimper Recommendation? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 08:36 AM - Re: AEC2006 line filter (user9253) 12. 12:27 PM - Re: Re: AEC2006 line filter (Charlie England) 13. 03:01 PM - Re: D Sub Crimper Recommendation? (Charles Kuss) 14. 04:41 PM - Re: AEC2006 line filter (user9253) 15. 05:16 PM - Re: D Sub Crimper Recommendation? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 16. 05:22 PM - Re: Re: AEC2006 line filter (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 17. 11:01 PM - Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 18. 11:05 PM - Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:21:55 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: AEC2006 line filter From: "Jedge" As the AEC2006 line filter has been discontinued, I was wondering if the values for the components are available, especially the toroidal choke. It was a neat unit, far lighter and much more compact than the old RadioShack one. Several of the aircraft on our field are suffering from alt/ignition noise from the jabiru engines and a line filter to clean up the power supply to the radio may help. So far we have changed the coax from RG58 to RG400, re-routed power cables and installed ferrites, all to no avail. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454411#454411 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:04 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AEC2006 line filter From: "user9253" Noise filter: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/filter/RS_Noise_Filters.pdf -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454412#454412 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:55 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AEC2006 line filter From: "user9253" "it's a 99% sure bet that adding a filter is not going to do the job" http://forum.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=16761065&sid=a41db49827ad23c5eefc5cad291ea0ed -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454413#454413 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:59 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AEC2006 line filter From: "user9253" There is DC to DC voltage converter on eBay for $13.24 http://tinyurl.com/jnjj9hj Would it work to eliminate noise? Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454415#454415 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: AEC2006 line filter From: Charlie England On 4/1/2016 7:36 AM, user9253 wrote: > > Noise filter: > http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/filter/RS_Noise_Filters.pdf > > -------- > Joe Gores For low current demand devices: If you're a scrounger, consider the crossover network from an old loudspeaker. They will likely be physically bigger (the inductors are typically air core instead of iron core), but close to free. Inductors should be in the range as the filters Bob described in the article. DC resistance might be a bit higher unless you're cannibalizing a large, high power speaker. Capacitors might well be a bit higher in capacity. Google 'loudspeaker crossover design' to get an idea of potential component values. Most speaker components are either 4 or 8 ohms these days, and a 2 way speaker will cross over at somewhere between 500 and 2500 HZ. A 3 way will cross over at ~400-1000 HZ, and at ~1500-4000 HZ. Charlie ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:07 AM PST US From: Bob Verwey Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: AEC2006 line filter This thread seems to cover mostly Alternator noise...what can be done about ignition noise? I have just redone the mags, new p leads appropriately earthed on the mag side only, and some of those automotive style leads that are not screened. Continental IO 470. At 2000 rpm it is like the noise generator turns on. Are we in the same noise spectrum here? On 1 April 2016 at 15:20, Charlie England wrote: > ceengland7@gmail.com> > > On 4/1/2016 7:36 AM, user9253 wrote: > >> >> Noise filter: >> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/filter/RS_Noise_Filters.pdf >> >> -------- >> Joe Gores >> > For low current demand devices: > > If you're a scrounger, consider the crossover network from an old > loudspeaker. They will likely be physically bigger (the inductors are > typically air core instead of iron core), but close to free. Inductors > should be in the range as the filters Bob described in the article. DC > resistance might be a bit higher unless you're cannibalizing a large, high > power speaker. Capacitors might well be a bit higher in capacity. > > Google 'loudspeaker crossover design' to get an idea of potential > component values. Most speaker components are either 4 or 8 ohms these > days, and a 2 way speaker will cross over at somewhere between 500 and 2500 > HZ. A 3 way will cross over at ~400-1000 HZ, and at ~1500-4000 HZ. > > Charlie > > -- Best... Bob Verwey ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:32 AM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: D Sub Crimper Recommendation? Hi Chris, There are two distinctly different crimpers, both work fine. One is the =9Cimport=9D version of the tool with fixed positioners (either standard density or high density) which retails for around $40 and works just fine for several 10=99s of thousands of pins before it wears out. The second is the Mil Spec AFM-8 with replaceable positioners and retails for hundreds of dollars, but can be calibrated and virtually last for hundreds of thousands of crimps and more if maintained. Cheers, Stein From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Mullins Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 11:19 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: D Sub Crimper Recommendation? Sounds like the crimp on coax connectors will work well. Possibly Mr Weir was speaking about the twist on variety. Thank you for the tool suggestions! Extremely helpful. Wondering if you have a favorite reasonably priced d sub crimper? Chris M ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:44:57 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: AEC2006 line filter At 03:19 AM 4/1/2016, you wrote: > >As the AEC2006 line filter has been discontinued, I was wondering if the >values for the components are available, especially the toroidal choke. >It was a neat unit, far lighter and much more compact than the old >RadioShack one. Several of the aircraft on our field are suffering >from alt/ignition noise from the jabiru engines and a line filter to >clean up the >power supply to the radio may help. So far we have changed the coax >from RG58 to RG400, re-routed power cables and installed ferrites, >all to no avail. Have you identified the propagation mode for this noise? You mention alt/ign . . . are you sure you're suffering effects from both antagonists. Solving a an electromagnetic compatibility issue is a bit like playing the board game "Clue". Pour all the possibilities into one bucket then work to eliminate them until you're down to one. Only after you've identified victim/propagation/ antagonist are you ready to explore remedies. This process is described in chapter 16 of the 'Connection. Tell us what the noise(s) sound like and what you've done to identify the antagonist(s). Do the board game switch flipping and knob twisting described in chapter 16. Give us all the evidence gathered and we'll have a MUCH better chance of offering a solution. The 2006 was originally designed to mitigate noise EMISSIONS from a particular but popular brand of turn-coordinator. It has been helpful in a limited number of other cases but experience has shown us that adding filters is usually a 'band-aid' over a design or installation error. Keep in mind that for every airplane having a noise problem, there are thousands of airplanes that do not have a problem. It follows that root cause will most likely be found in the DIFFERENCE between how the problem airplane is built compared to those that don't have problems . . . without band-aids. I've identified the V/P/A configuration for issues on dozens of airplanes and MOST were rectified with very simple attention to architecture and installation basics. The only one I couldn't whip completely was HF transmitter interference to various and sundry systems on the Hawkers. A change of HF antenna system turned the 'hell hole' on these airplanes into a rough equivalent of a microwave oven in which we were 'cooking' accessories designed as far back as 1970 . . . before the HF system became an issue. . . . yes, we shipped a goodly number of airplanes with band-aids on them. This should not be the case for your airplane. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:25 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: AEC2006 line filter At 09:06 AM 4/1/2016, you wrote: >This thread seems to cover mostly Alternator noise...what can be >done about ignition noise? >I have just redone the mags, new p leads appropriately earthed on >the mag side only, and some of those automotive style leads that are >not screened. Continental IO 470. >At 2000 rpm it is like the noise generator turns on. >Are we in the same noise spectrum here? You need to identify the propagation mode first. Radiated or conducted? If conducted, which wires are affected, power or signal lines? If RPM sensitive, it might be something as simple as a poor joint that is agitated by vibration. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:34 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: D Sub Crimper Recommendation? At 11:19 PM 3/31/2016, you wrote: >Sounds like the crimp on coax connectors will work well. Possibly Mr >Weir was speaking about the twist on variety. >Thank you for the tool suggestions! Extremely helpful. >Wondering if you have a favorite reasonably priced d sub crimper? Here'a one that is an excellent value http://tinyurl.com/jqyr4sk Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:10 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AEC2006 line filter From: "user9253" Any audio signal that gets amplified is very vulnerable to electrical noise. Microphone jacks should be isolated from the airframe and mounted with insulating step washers. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454430#454430 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:27:44 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: AEC2006 line filter From: Charlie England TW9zdCBvZiB0aGUgdGltZSwgZGMvZGMgY29udmVydGVycyBhcmUgdGhlIG5vaXNlIHNvdXJjZS4g Oy0pCgo8ZGl2Pi0tLS0tLS0tIE9yaWdpbmFsIG1lc3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0tLS08L2Rpdj48ZGl2PkZy b206IHVzZXI5MjUzIDxmcmFuc2V3QGdtYWlsLmNvbT4gPC9kaXY+PGRpdj5EYXRlOjA0LzAxLzIw MTYgIDc6NTMgQU0gIChHTVQtMDY6MDApIDwvZGl2PjxkaXY+VG86IGFlcm9lbGVjdHJpYy1saXN0 QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20gPC9kaXY+PGRpdj5TdWJqZWN0OiBBZXJvRWxlY3RyaWMtTGlzdDogUmU6 IEFFQzIwMDYgbGluZSBmaWx0ZXIgPC9kaXY+PGRpdj4KPC9kaXY+LS0+IEFlcm9FbGVjdHJpYy1M aXN0IG1lc3NhZ2UgcG9zdGVkIGJ5OiAidXNlcjkyNTMiIDxmcmFuc2V3QGdtYWlsLmNvbT4KClRo ZXJlIGlzIERDIHRvIERDIHZvbHRhZ2UgY29udmVydGVyIG9uIGVCYXkgZm9yICQxMy4yNApodHRw Oi8vdGlueXVybC5jb20vam5qajloagpXb3VsZCBpdCB3b3JrIHRvIGVsaW1pbmF0ZSBub2lzZT8K Sm9lCgotLS0tLS0tLQpKb2UgR29yZXMKCgoKClJlYWQgdGhpcyB0b3BpYyBvbmxpbmUgaGVyZToK Cmh0dHA6Ly9mb3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS92aWV3dG9waWMucGhwP3A9NDU0NDE1IzQ1NDQx NQoKCgoKCgoKXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0KXy09Cl8tPSAgICAgICAtLSBQbGVhc2UgU3VwcG9ydCBZb3VyIExpc3Rz IFRoaXMgTW9udGggLS0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgICAoQW5kIEdldCBTb21lIEFXRVNPTUUgRlJFRSBH aWZ0cyEpCl8tPQpfLT0gICBOb3ZlbWJlciBpcyB0aGUgQW5udWFsIExpc3QgRnVuZCBSYWlzZXIu ICBDbGljayBvbgpfLT0gICB0aGUgQ29udHJpYnV0aW9uIGxpbmsgYmVsb3cgdG8gZmluZCBvdXQg bW9yZSBhYm91dApfLT0gICB0aGlzIHllYXIncyBUZXJyaWZpYyBGcmVlIEluY2VudGl2ZSBHaWZ0 cyBwcm92aWRlZApfLT0gICBieToKXy09ICAgCl8tPSAgICAgKiBUaGUgQnVpbGRlcidzIEJvb2tz dG9yZSB3d3cuYnVpbGRlcnNib29rcy5jb20KXy09Cl8tPSAgIExpc3QgQ29udHJpYnV0aW9uIFdl YiBTaXRlOgpfLT0KXy09ICAgLS0+IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9jb250cmlidXRp b24KXy09Cl8tPSAgIFRoYW5rIHlvdSBmb3IgeW91ciBnZW5lcm91cyBzdXBwb3J0IQpfLT0KXy09 ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLU1hdHQgRHJhbGxlLCBMaXN0IEFkbWluLgpf LT0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgIC0gVGhlIEFlcm9FbGVjdHJpYy1MaXN0IEVtYWlsIEZvcnVt IC0KXy09IFVzZSB0aGUgTWF0cm9uaWNzIExpc3QgRmVhdHVyZXMgTmF2aWdhdG9yIHRvIGJyb3dz ZQpfLT0gdGhlIG1hbnkgTGlzdCB1dGlsaXRpZXMgc3VjaCBhcyBMaXN0IFVuL1N1YnNjcmlwdGlv biwKXy09IEFyY2hpdmUgU2VhcmNoICYgRG93bmxvYWQsIDctRGF5IEJyb3dzZSwgQ2hhdCwgRkFR LApfLT0gUGhvdG9zaGFyZSwgYW5kIG11Y2ggbXVjaCBtb3JlOgpfLT0KXy09ICAgLS0+IGh0dHA6 Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9OYXZpZ2F0b3I/QWVyb0VsZWN0cmljLUxpc3QKXy09Cl8tPT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 Cl8tPSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIC0gTUFUUk9OSUNTIFdFQiBGT1JVTVMgLQpfLT0gU2FtZSBncmVh dCBjb250ZW50IGFsc28gYXZhaWxhYmxlIHZpYSB0aGUgV2ViIEZvcnVtcyEKXy09Cl8tPSAgIC0t PiBodHRwOi8vZm9ydW1zLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20KXy09Cl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09Cl8tPSAgICAgICAgICAgICAt IExpc3QgQ29udHJpYnV0aW9uIFdlYiBTaXRlIC0KXy09ICBUaGFuayB5b3UgZm9yIHlvdXIgZ2Vu ZXJvdXMgc3VwcG9ydCEKXy09ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLU1hdHQgRHJh bGxlLCBMaXN0IEFkbWluLgpfLT0gICAtLT4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2NvbnRy aWJ1dGlvbgpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PQoKCgo ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:01:24 PM PST US From: Charles Kuss Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: D Sub Crimper Recommendation? -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 4/1/16, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: D Sub Crimper Recommendation? To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Date: Friday, April 1, 2016, 10:49 AM At 11:19 PM 3/31/2016, you wrote: Sounds like the crimp on coax connectors will work well. Possibly Mr Weir was speaking about the twist on variety. Thank you for the tool suggestions! Extremely helpful. Wondering if you have a favorite reasonably priced d sub crimper? Here'a one that is an excellent value http://tinyurl.com/jqyr4sk Bob, Will the tool you linked above also do machined high density D Sub pins? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:41:50 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AEC2006 line filter From: "user9253" You might be correct. I suppose it all depends on the frequency of the oscillator. Many electronic devices have a switching power supply, which I believe the DC to DC converter has. If it operates above the range of human hearing, then I would expect it to be quiet. Of course radio frequency interference is not desirable either. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454451#454451 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:32 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: D Sub Crimper Recommendation? > > >Bob, > Will the tool you linked above also do machined high density D Sub pins? > > This is problematic . . . if the pin positioner indexes off the END of the pin, then the quad-crimp will be in about the right place. Emacs! However, the fussier tools (read $high$) will index of the largest leading shoulder. In that case, a positioner set up for D20 might not even 'catch' an HD22 . . . and the pin falls through. Then there is the matter of crush depth for the wire grip. The Eclipse tools I used to sell did put an adequate crush on an HD22 pin . . . I could not pull it off with ~5 pounds of force. The pins you see above were applied with a tip-indexing positioner in a Buchanan tool. Wire grip position is good . . . but the HD22 pin is loose on the strands. The short answer is try it. Look at were the crush hits the wire barrel . . . it should be centered on the paint stripes. Then hang a gallon milk jug about 2/3 full of water on the wire and lift ot with a pair of pliers on the pin. If the wire doesn't move, you're good to go. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:36 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: AEC2006 line filter At 06:40 PM 4/1/2016, you wrote: > >You might be correct. I suppose it all depends on the frequency of >the oscillator. Many electronic devices have a switching power >supply, which I believe the DC to DC converter has. If it operates >above the range of human hearing, then I would expect it to be >quiet. Of course radio frequency interference is not desirable either. I've never met a 'barefooted' switchmode power supply that didn't talk to adjacent radios. Cigar lighter phone chargers are notorious for their willingness to trash broadcast signals to your car radio. Assuming the designer has the will, any switchmode power supply can be made EMC friendly . . . it's done all the time with appropriate filters, careful attention to board layout and perhaps some RF tight enclosure. But if somebody simply takes a design from the app-notes for some power supply controller chip . . . then I guarantee you that the circuit would not pass DO-160 conducted and radiated emissions tests. That's an EXTRA effort above and beyond making it work. 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The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all AeroElectric-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the AeroElectric-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * AeroElectric-List.FAQ - Latest version of the AeroElectric-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?AeroElectric ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. AeroElectric-List Policy Statement The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:00 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: AeroElectric-List: Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines Dear Listers, Please read over the AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete AeroElectric-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. AeroElectric-List Policy Statement The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.