Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:33 AM - Re: If anybody is bored...could you be so kind as to check my w (racerjerry)
2. 04:38 AM - Re: Re: If anybody is bored...could you be so kind as to check my w (RV7builder)
3. 06:45 AM - Re: If anybody is bored...could you be so kind as to check my w (user9253)
4. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: If anybody is bored...could you be so kind as to check my w (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 07:49 AM - Posted architecture drawing (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 07:49 AM - Re: Essential Bus Switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 07:49 AM - Re: Essential Bus Switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 07:59 AM - Re: Essential Bus Switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 08:21 AM - Re: Essential Bus Switch (William Hunter)
10. 08:58 AM - Re: Posted architecture drawing (Jeff Luckey)
11. 10:28 AM - Re: Switchology (speedy11@aol.com)
12. 11:02 AM - Re: Re: Switchology (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: If anybody is bored...could you be so kind as to |
check my w
Regarding the Over-Voltage module shown in the wiring diagram http://forums.matronics.com/download.php?id=42607
Does this module merely provide an INDICATION of over/under voltage, as in a OV/LV
sensor? If this module is of the crowbar type, it appears to me that something
is seriously wrong.
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454717#454717
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: If anybody is bored...could you be so kind |
as to check my w
Looks OK to me. Crossbar circuits are designed to sense over voltage, and trip
the controlling circuit breaker by intentionally overloading it. (That's the origin
of 'crowbar', as in 'throw a crowbar across the circuit'. The regulator
CB is typically 5 amps, so it's not a big event to trip it.
On April 8, 2016 5:31:29 AM CDT, racerjerry <gnking2@verizon.net> wrote:
><gnking2@verizon.net>
>
>Regarding the Over-Voltage module shown in the wiring diagram
>http://forums.matronics.com/download.php?id=42607
>Does this module merely provide an INDICATION of over/under voltage, as
>in a OV/LV sensor? If this module is of the crowbar type, it appears
>to me that something is seriously wrong.
>
>--------
>Jerry King
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454717#454717
>
>
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: If anybody is bored...could you be so kind as to |
check my w
The over voltage module is the crowbar type. If it shorts out due to high voltage,
it trips the circuit breaker.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454725#454725
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: If anybody is bored...could you be so kind |
as to check my w
At 05:31 AM 4/8/2016, you wrote:
>
>Regarding the Over-Voltage module shown in the wiring diagram
>http://forums.matronics.com/download.php?id=42607
>Does this module merely provide an INDICATION of over/under voltage,
>as in a OV/LV sensor? If this module is of the crowbar type, it
>appears to me that something is seriously wrong.
Check documents at http://tinyurl.com/joeopsn
where you'll get more details on the whys and
wherefores of crowbar ov protection.
Also http://tinyurl.com/zgr3chx
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Posted architecture drawing |
At 05:31 AM 4/8/2016, you wrote:
>
>Regarding the Over-Voltage module shown in the wiring diagram
>http://forums.matronics.com/download.php?id=42607
>Does this module merely provide an INDICATION of over/under voltage,
>as in a OV/LV sensor? If this module is of the crowbar type, it
>appears to me that something is seriously wrong.
Are you considering this drawing as a baseline
design for your project?
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Essential Bus Switch |
At 01:11 PM 4/7/2016, you wrote:
>What would be a good choice for a switch (and vendor) to use for the
>essential bus? My avionics bus will only have a transponder, ADS-B,
>GNS-650,and SL-15.
>
>should this switch be a simple toggle or should it be a Kaliko
>circuit breaker switch?
>
>THANKS!!!
>
>Bill Hunter
>
>Bill Hunter
>+1 408-464-1902
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Essential Bus Switch |
At 01:11 PM 4/7/2016, you wrote:
>What would be a good choice for a switch (and vendor) to use for the
>essential bus? My avionics bus will only have a transponder, ADS-B,
>GNS-650,and SL-15.
>
>should this switch be a simple toggle or should it be a Kaliko
>circuit breaker switch?
breaker/switches are expensive, seldom compatible
with the styling of other switches and generally
serve no useful purpose in the artfully crafted
architecture . . . Do your FMEA, under what
conditions would that breaker be called upon to
do its job? How to do craft the system such that
no such condition is likely to occur . . . i.e.
as reliable as prop bolts?
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Essential Bus Switch |
At 01:11 PM 4/7/2016, you wrote:
>What would be a good choice for a switch (and vendor) to use for the
>essential bus? My avionics bus will only have a transponder, ADS-B,
>GNS-650,and SL-15.
You have both an endurance bus -AND- and avionics
bus?
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Essential Bus Switch |
>You have both an endurance bus -AND- and avionics
bus?
Thanks for helping!
I do not want to fool with an avionics Master relay and the switch does not
have to be a circuit breaker.
The airplane will have two completely independent electrical systems with
the ability to bus tie.
The pilot side bus will have a dynon SV1000 and Dynon radio.
The copilot's bus will also have a Dynon SV1000 and the copilot system will
also power the Avionics bus that will power only a Garmin G650, Garmin SL
15, Dynon transponder, and a Dynon ADS-B.
So I need to find a good quality toggle switch that has the capability to
power only these five items and none of them use their complete power all
of the time.
THANKS AGAIN!!!
Bill Hunter
On Apr 8, 2016 8:08 AM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 01:11 PM 4/7/2016, you wrote:
>
> What would be a good choice for a switch (and vendor) to use for the
> essential bus? My avionics bus will only have a transponder, ADS-B,
> GNS-650,and SL-15.
>
>
> You have both an endurance bus -AND- and avionics
> bus?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Posted architecture drawing |
racejerry,
"Regarding the Over-Voltage module shown in the wiring diagramhttp://forums
.matronics.com/download.php?id=42607
Does this module merely provide an INDICATION of over/under voltage, asin a
OV/LV sensor?=C2-=C2- If this module is of the crowbar type, itappears
to me that something is seriously wrong."
To answer your question, yes it is a crowbar-type over voltage module.=C2
-
What do you think is wrong?=C2- If I've made a blunder, I'd sure like to
know about it.=C2- (but I'm pretty sure it is correct).
-Jeff
On Friday, April 8, 2016 8:06 AM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.b
ob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
At 05:31 AM 4/8/2016, you wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List messageposted by: "racerjerry" <gnking2@verizon.net>
Regarding the Over-Voltage module shown in the wiring diagramhttp://forums.
matronics.com/download.php?id=42607
Does this module merely provide an INDICATION of over/under voltage, asin a
OV/LV sensor?=C2-=C2- If this module is of the crowbar type, itappears
to me that something is seriously wrong.
=C2- Are you considering this drawing as a baseline
=C2- design for your project?
=C2- Bob . . .
Message 11
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Two different topics to address.
First, there are guarded switch covers in red and green (I own some) that a
re very lightweight, can be added to any normal-sized (not mini) toggle swi
tch, and lock the toggle switch in one direction and cover the switch (guar
ded) in the other direction. Closing the guard does not turn "off" the swi
tch. (Off means the other switch position - which may or may not be "off")
We had them in the F-16 and they functioned very well. They can be purch
ased at reasonable prices at air shows and aviation swap meets - I bought m
ine at Sun n Fun several years ago. Off hand, I do not have a ready source
for the switch guards, but I suspect I could locate them in short order.
If anyone is at Sun n Fun this week they could probably find them. Due to
space limitations and the design of my switch panel, I decided to not use t
hem, but the design and function of them is excellent. If so desired, the
switch guards could be repainted to any desired color and even add stripes.
Now, the second subject of why to use protected switches.
1. Build your airplane the way you want it - not to the opinion of others.
Listen to others, consider their opinion and build it the way you want.
If you want protected switches, then use them. You don't have to explain y
ourself or make excuses for your design. When someone says, "Why did you d
o that?" the answer is "Because I like it."
2. The US military uses guarded switch covers in many applications. The m
ilitary has studied human ergonomics and how we use the switches and they h
ave developed excellent solutions. I am not embarrassed to piggyback on th
eir ideas. However, military situations are different that your personal a
irplane. The military has to plan for an inexperienced 18-25 year old to m
anipulate controls (switches) without error. As a result, guarded switches
can be a valuable asset - especially when actuating munitions release. Si
nce you built and are very familiar with the switch layout in your personal
airplane and since you don't have to worry about designing for inexperienc
ed people, guarded switches may be of limited value-added. Lever-lock, on
the other hand, can be very valuable. The F-16 also had lever-lock switche
s for some applications.
3. Unintended activation of a switch in turbulence is a definite concern.
Many times in 21k hours I have (or could have were it not for a safety feat
ure) bumped switches in turbulence. It is also a concern (even in smooth a
ir) when two important switches are located side-by-side that a guard requi
ring specific action to actuate the switches be used.
4. OBAM is the leading edge of general aviation. We lead the way and the
certificated builders take an appropriately more cautious approach. An exa
mple is the use of glass cockpits in smaller, piston-powered GA. OBAM led
the way in GA glass 25 years ago. It wasn't as high tech as now, but OBAM
was able to push the edge of the envelope. So, with our position as indust
ry leaders it is appropriate for us to do things differently. OBAM methodo
logy may turn out to not be the best way or to add no value to the process
of flying, but it is important that we try different approaches. If a part
icular idea does not add value, then we tell other builders about our exper
iences so they can decide how to personalize the airplanes. THAT is what i
s so different about OBAM aircraft that causes designers, builders and user
s of these aircraft to incorporate protected switches. Build it the way th
at you like it. If it turns out to be a no-value-added item, then take it
out. Very little is lost and knowledge is gained.
Keep experimenting - and don't let anyone talk you out of it.
Regards,
Stan . . .
-------------------------------------------------------
Most off-the-shelf switch covers will force the
switch to one side when closed. Operating the switch
requires that the cover be opened before the switch
can be moved . . . and the cover must remain open.
Closing the cover forces the switch back.
You have to work pretty hard to find covers that
allow 'protection' in either switch position.
------------------------------------------------------------------
What is so different about the OBAM aviation aircraft,
the designers, builders and users of these aircraft
that make protected switches so attractive . . . or
even a good idea?
Message 12
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>Now, the second subject of why to use protected switches.
>1. Build your airplane the way you want it - not to the opinion of
>others. Listen to others, consider their opinion and build it the
>way you want. If you want protected switches, then use them. You
>don't have to explain yourself or make excuses for your
>design. When someone says, "Why did you do that?" the answer is
>"Because I like it."
. . . nuff said.
Bob . . .
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