---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 04/08/16: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:33 AM - Re: If anybody is bored...could you be so kind as to check my w (racerjerry) 2. 04:38 AM - Re: Re: If anybody is bored...could you be so kind as to check my w (RV7builder) 3. 06:45 AM - Re: If anybody is bored...could you be so kind as to check my w (user9253) 4. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: If anybody is bored...could you be so kind as to check my w (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 07:49 AM - Posted architecture drawing (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 07:49 AM - Re: Essential Bus Switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 07:49 AM - Re: Essential Bus Switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 07:59 AM - Re: Essential Bus Switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 08:21 AM - Re: Essential Bus Switch (William Hunter) 10. 08:58 AM - Re: Posted architecture drawing (Jeff Luckey) 11. 10:28 AM - Re: Switchology (speedy11@aol.com) 12. 11:02 AM - Re: Re: Switchology (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:33:18 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: If anybody is bored...could you be so kind as to check my w From: "racerjerry" Regarding the Over-Voltage module shown in the wiring diagram http://forums.matronics.com/download.php?id=42607 Does this module merely provide an INDICATION of over/under voltage, as in a OV/LV sensor? If this module is of the crowbar type, it appears to me that something is seriously wrong. -------- Jerry King Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454717#454717 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:38:27 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: If anybody is bored...could you be so kind as to check my w From: RV7builder Looks OK to me. Crossbar circuits are designed to sense over voltage, and trip the controlling circuit breaker by intentionally overloading it. (That's the origin of 'crowbar', as in 'throw a crowbar across the circuit'. The regulator CB is typically 5 amps, so it's not a big event to trip it. On April 8, 2016 5:31:29 AM CDT, racerjerry wrote: > > >Regarding the Over-Voltage module shown in the wiring diagram >http://forums.matronics.com/download.php?id=42607 >Does this module merely provide an INDICATION of over/under voltage, as >in a OV/LV sensor? If this module is of the crowbar type, it appears >to me that something is seriously wrong. > >-------- >Jerry King > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454717#454717 > > -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:31 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: If anybody is bored...could you be so kind as to check my w From: "user9253" The over voltage module is the crowbar type. If it shorts out due to high voltage, it trips the circuit breaker. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454725#454725 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:44:10 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: If anybody is bored...could you be so kind as to check my w At 05:31 AM 4/8/2016, you wrote: > >Regarding the Over-Voltage module shown in the wiring diagram >http://forums.matronics.com/download.php?id=42607 >Does this module merely provide an INDICATION of over/under voltage, >as in a OV/LV sensor? If this module is of the crowbar type, it >appears to me that something is seriously wrong. Check documents at http://tinyurl.com/joeopsn where you'll get more details on the whys and wherefores of crowbar ov protection. Also http://tinyurl.com/zgr3chx Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:06 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Posted architecture drawing At 05:31 AM 4/8/2016, you wrote: > >Regarding the Over-Voltage module shown in the wiring diagram >http://forums.matronics.com/download.php?id=42607 >Does this module merely provide an INDICATION of over/under voltage, >as in a OV/LV sensor? If this module is of the crowbar type, it >appears to me that something is seriously wrong. Are you considering this drawing as a baseline design for your project? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:11 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Essential Bus Switch At 01:11 PM 4/7/2016, you wrote: >What would be a good choice for a switch (and vendor) to use for the >essential bus? My avionics bus will only have a transponder, ADS-B, >GNS-650,and SL-15. > >should this switch be a simple toggle or should it be a Kaliko >circuit breaker switch? > >THANKS!!! > >Bill Hunter > >Bill Hunter >+1 408-464-1902 Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:38 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Essential Bus Switch At 01:11 PM 4/7/2016, you wrote: >What would be a good choice for a switch (and vendor) to use for the >essential bus? My avionics bus will only have a transponder, ADS-B, >GNS-650,and SL-15. > >should this switch be a simple toggle or should it be a Kaliko >circuit breaker switch? breaker/switches are expensive, seldom compatible with the styling of other switches and generally serve no useful purpose in the artfully crafted architecture . . . Do your FMEA, under what conditions would that breaker be called upon to do its job? How to do craft the system such that no such condition is likely to occur . . . i.e. as reliable as prop bolts? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:59:29 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Essential Bus Switch At 01:11 PM 4/7/2016, you wrote: >What would be a good choice for a switch (and vendor) to use for the >essential bus? My avionics bus will only have a transponder, ADS-B, >GNS-650,and SL-15. You have both an endurance bus -AND- and avionics bus? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:21:53 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Essential Bus Switch From: William Hunter >You have both an endurance bus -AND- and avionics bus? Thanks for helping! I do not want to fool with an avionics Master relay and the switch does not have to be a circuit breaker. The airplane will have two completely independent electrical systems with the ability to bus tie. The pilot side bus will have a dynon SV1000 and Dynon radio. The copilot's bus will also have a Dynon SV1000 and the copilot system will also power the Avionics bus that will power only a Garmin G650, Garmin SL 15, Dynon transponder, and a Dynon ADS-B. So I need to find a good quality toggle switch that has the capability to power only these five items and none of them use their complete power all of the time. THANKS AGAIN!!! Bill Hunter On Apr 8, 2016 8:08 AM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 01:11 PM 4/7/2016, you wrote: > > What would be a good choice for a switch (and vendor) to use for the > essential bus? My avionics bus will only have a transponder, ADS-B, > GNS-650,and SL-15. > > > You have both an endurance bus -AND- and avionics > bus? > > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:32 AM PST US From: Jeff Luckey Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Posted architecture drawing racejerry, "Regarding the Over-Voltage module shown in the wiring diagramhttp://forums .matronics.com/download.php?id=42607 Does this module merely provide an INDICATION of over/under voltage, asin a OV/LV sensor?=C2-=C2- If this module is of the crowbar type, itappears to me that something is seriously wrong." To answer your question, yes it is a crowbar-type over voltage module.=C2 - What do you think is wrong?=C2- If I've made a blunder, I'd sure like to know about it.=C2- (but I'm pretty sure it is correct). -Jeff On Friday, April 8, 2016 8:06 AM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: At 05:31 AM 4/8/2016, you wrote: --> AeroElectric-List messageposted by: "racerjerry" Regarding the Over-Voltage module shown in the wiring diagramhttp://forums. matronics.com/download.php?id=42607 Does this module merely provide an INDICATION of over/under voltage, asin a OV/LV sensor?=C2-=C2- If this module is of the crowbar type, itappears to me that something is seriously wrong. =C2- Are you considering this drawing as a baseline =C2- design for your project? =C2- Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:28:57 AM PST US From: speedy11@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Switchology Two different topics to address. First, there are guarded switch covers in red and green (I own some) that a re very lightweight, can be added to any normal-sized (not mini) toggle swi tch, and lock the toggle switch in one direction and cover the switch (guar ded) in the other direction. Closing the guard does not turn "off" the swi tch. (Off means the other switch position - which may or may not be "off") We had them in the F-16 and they functioned very well. They can be purch ased at reasonable prices at air shows and aviation swap meets - I bought m ine at Sun n Fun several years ago. Off hand, I do not have a ready source for the switch guards, but I suspect I could locate them in short order. If anyone is at Sun n Fun this week they could probably find them. Due to space limitations and the design of my switch panel, I decided to not use t hem, but the design and function of them is excellent. If so desired, the switch guards could be repainted to any desired color and even add stripes. Now, the second subject of why to use protected switches. 1. Build your airplane the way you want it - not to the opinion of others. Listen to others, consider their opinion and build it the way you want. If you want protected switches, then use them. You don't have to explain y ourself or make excuses for your design. When someone says, "Why did you d o that?" the answer is "Because I like it." 2. The US military uses guarded switch covers in many applications. The m ilitary has studied human ergonomics and how we use the switches and they h ave developed excellent solutions. I am not embarrassed to piggyback on th eir ideas. However, military situations are different that your personal a irplane. The military has to plan for an inexperienced 18-25 year old to m anipulate controls (switches) without error. As a result, guarded switches can be a valuable asset - especially when actuating munitions release. Si nce you built and are very familiar with the switch layout in your personal airplane and since you don't have to worry about designing for inexperienc ed people, guarded switches may be of limited value-added. Lever-lock, on the other hand, can be very valuable. The F-16 also had lever-lock switche s for some applications. 3. Unintended activation of a switch in turbulence is a definite concern. Many times in 21k hours I have (or could have were it not for a safety feat ure) bumped switches in turbulence. It is also a concern (even in smooth a ir) when two important switches are located side-by-side that a guard requi ring specific action to actuate the switches be used. 4. OBAM is the leading edge of general aviation. We lead the way and the certificated builders take an appropriately more cautious approach. An exa mple is the use of glass cockpits in smaller, piston-powered GA. OBAM led the way in GA glass 25 years ago. It wasn't as high tech as now, but OBAM was able to push the edge of the envelope. So, with our position as indust ry leaders it is appropriate for us to do things differently. OBAM methodo logy may turn out to not be the best way or to add no value to the process of flying, but it is important that we try different approaches. If a part icular idea does not add value, then we tell other builders about our exper iences so they can decide how to personalize the airplanes. THAT is what i s so different about OBAM aircraft that causes designers, builders and user s of these aircraft to incorporate protected switches. Build it the way th at you like it. If it turns out to be a no-value-added item, then take it out. Very little is lost and knowledge is gained. Keep experimenting - and don't let anyone talk you out of it. Regards, Stan . . . ------------------------------------------------------- Most off-the-shelf switch covers will force the switch to one side when closed. Operating the switch requires that the cover be opened before the switch can be moved . . . and the cover must remain open. Closing the cover forces the switch back. You have to work pretty hard to find covers that allow 'protection' in either switch position. ------------------------------------------------------------------ What is so different about the OBAM aviation aircraft, the designers, builders and users of these aircraft that make protected switches so attractive . . . or even a good idea? ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:02:54 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Switchology >Now, the second subject of why to use protected switches. >1. Build your airplane the way you want it - not to the opinion of >others. Listen to others, consider their opinion and build it the >way you want. If you want protected switches, then use them. You >don't have to explain yourself or make excuses for your >design. When someone says, "Why did you do that?" the answer is >"Because I like it." . . . nuff said. Bob . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.