Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:10 AM - Re: Re: Can the Honeywell 2TL1-10A Be Used As A Z-14 Master + Altern (William Hunter)
2. 07:59 AM - Re: Essential Bus Switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 08:04 AM - Garmin transponder power problems (Coastflyer)
4. 08:20 AM - Re: Essential Bus Switch (William Hunter)
5. 09:08 AM - Switch ratings (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 12:31 PM - Re: Essential Bus Switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 12:49 PM - Re: Essential Bus Switch (William Hunter)
8. 01:33 PM - Aveo Rock Rack Switches (William Hunter)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Can the Honeywell 2TL1-10A Be Used As A Z-14 |
Master + Altern
Joe,
THANK YOU for your kind help...GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!
If anyone out there in AeroElectricLand is interested in using this
Honeywell 2TL1-10A switch for their Battery Master + Alternator Master then
I have taken Joe's written instructions and mapped them out on a PDF copy of
the data sheet with red being the path of the Battery Master entering at
pole #6 and exiting at pole #5 and blue being the path of the Alternator
Field entering at pole #3 and exiting at pole #2.
THANKS AGAIN Joe!!!
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of user9253
Sent: Saturday, April 9, 2016 7:09 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Can the Honeywell 2TL1-10A Be Used As A Z-14
Master + Altern
Yes, if I am interpreting the datasheet correctly, that switch will work.
Mount the switch with the keyway down.
Connect the alternator field to teminals 2 & 3.
Connect the master contactor to terminals 5 & 6.
As for the current rating, I do not understand it. But since the maximum
current under certain conditions is 20 amps, then most likely the switch
will handle 5 amps at 12 vdc.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454771#454771
Message 2
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| Subject: | Essential Bus Switch |
>
>The only reason why I want an Avionics bus is to turn off
>unnecessary electrical loads on the system during starting. I
>presume the Garmin 650 and the Dynon ADS-B and transponder are not
>susceptible to power surge issues during engine start and since I
>will have two Optima batteries this is all way overkill.
There are no 'surges' during engine cranking . . .
if your battery(ies) are soggy, then there will
be a brown-out condition . . . and engine cranking
will be noticeably labored. If an RG battery is
so used up that it no longer smartly cranks the
engine, then its serviceability as a reserve of
energy is suspect.
No electronic device is at-risk for damage due
to cranking brown-out. SOME software driven devices
may initiate a reset operation . . . but it is
not damaged in any way. See:
http://tinyurl.com/jb3mgh5
and
http://tinyurl.com/j2jt5ul
I've been herding electrons in aircraft and
ground-based vehicles for a long time. I've never
encountered a device that ran off the rails
due to any excursions of bus voltage . . . that's
because its a trivial design goal to make our
electro-whizzies immune to anything the airplane
throws at it plus a lightning bolt or two from
mother nature.
Relieving a battery of 'unnecessary loads' during
cranking is another artifact of yesteryear when
radios drew a lot more current and poorly maintained
flooded batteries were routinely taxed beyond
their physical limits.
But today, a hand full of amps 'unnecessary load'
during the 200amps plus cranking event grunted by
a modern battery, the value of load shedding
during cranking.
>The left bus is powered by the SD-20 and it has a Dynon SV-1000 with
>its own GPS and Dynon radio and the right side bus will be powered
>by a SD-60 and it will power the Avionics bus with a Garmin 650
>(radio and nav).
Any devices powered from these busses are at no
risk for either -damage- or -overtaxing- a
battery during cranking.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Garmin transponder power problems |
I've had a garmin transponder in my plane for the last 5 years. I bought it new.
I think it's a GTX 327. For the past couple years it will randomly power off
and back on. When it does this it is usually just momentary, sometimes staying
off for up to 30sec.
I checked the ground and power, and re racked it. I asked several avionics shops
about it with no results. At this point I guess I'm just going to shine it until
I'm required to buy an ads-b transponder unless anyone here has a suggestion.
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454787#454787
Message 4
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| Subject: | Essential Bus Switch |
Good info Bob. I REALLY want to thank you and the other guys on the
AeroElectric forum for you time, effort, and experience in helping me during
this project.GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 7:58 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Essential Bus Switch
The only reason why I want an Avionics bus is to turn off unnecessary
electrical loads on the system during starting. I presume the Garmin 650
and the Dynon ADS-B and transponder are not susceptible to power surge
issues during engine start and since I will have two Optima batteries this
is all way overkill.
There are no 'surges' during engine cranking . . .
if your battery(ies) are soggy, then there will
be a brown-out condition . . . and engine cranking
will be noticeably labored. If an RG battery is
so used up that it no longer smartly cranks the
engine, then its serviceability as a reserve of
energy is suspect.
No electronic device is at-risk for damage due
to cranking brown-out. SOME software driven devices
may initiate a reset operation . . . but it is
not damaged in any way. See:
http://tinyurl.com/jb3mgh5
and
http://tinyurl.com/j2jt5ul
I've been herding electrons in aircraft and
ground-based vehicles for a long time. I've never
encountered a device that ran off the rails
due to any excursions of bus voltage . . . that's
because its a trivial design goal to make our
electro-whizzies immune to anything the airplane
throws at it plus a lightning bolt or two from
mother nature.
Relieving a battery of 'unnecessary loads' during
cranking is another artifact of yesteryear when
radios drew a lot more current and poorly maintained
flooded batteries were routinely taxed beyond
their physical limits.
But today, a hand full of amps 'unnecessary load'
during the 200amps plus cranking event grunted by
a modern battery, the value of load shedding
during cranking.
The left bus is powered by the SD-20 and it has a Dynon SV-1000 with its own
GPS and Dynon radio and the right side bus will be powered by a SD-60 and it
will power the Avionics bus with a Garmin 650 (radio and nav).
Any devices powered from these busses are at no
risk for either -damage- or -overtaxing- a
battery during cranking.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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At 09:08 PM 4/9/2016, you wrote:
>if I am interpreting the datasheet correctly, that switch will work.
>Mount the switch with the keyway down.
>Connect the alternator field to teminals 2 & 3.
>Connect the master contactor to terminals 5 & 6.
>As for the current rating, I do not understand it. But since the
>maximum current under certain conditions is 20 amps, then most
>likely the switch will handle 5 amps at 12 vdc.
Not sure where the 20a figure comes from but
consider this . . .
Catalog 'ratings' for switches and relays are
very loosely applicable to how we use them in
airplanes. For example, consider the el-cheapo,
whisky-barrel battery contactors used on hundreds
of thousands of airplanes for decades . . . it's
'rated' for 70A . . . yet we subject it to engine
cranking currents in the hundreds of amps.
Switch ratings are not about dancing up to the
edge of failure . . . it's all about service life.
The switch/relay catalogs will offer up perfectly
valid laboratory test results suggesting resistive,
inductive and lamp load limits for their products
assuming the user wants it to last for THOUSANDS
of cycles.
Ain't gonna happen in the RV or Lancair . . . or
even a Beechjet. I cannot recall having trouble
shot for a switch that failed for having reached
end of service life. Failures are much more likely
to arise from environmental stress over time . . .
or manufacturing defect.
Graybeards here on the List will recall a rash
of Carling switch failures in an airplane fitted with
a modern strobe system utilizing a constant-power
switch-mode power supply. This device draws significantly
more power during battery only versus normal bus
voltage. The builder 'failed' several switches over
too-short a period of service life. Another builder
suffered a really strange failure wherein a fuse
blew when the accessory was turned OFF (!?)
See: http://tinyurl.com/jpvv8et
http://tinyurl.com/gphkdgz
Turns out that the switches in question were not
only part of the most demanding control situation
in the airplane . . . they suffered from poor fits
that drove up on-resistance and induced progressive
heating scenarios.
The short answer is: Just about any switch you
buy, whether from the local hardware store or a mil-spec
supplier will perform just fine any where in your
airplane but if you desire deeper understanding and
confidence. See
http://tinyurl.com/gv9gdua
and review
http://tinyurl.com/zop5m4r
The bottom line remains . . . if failure of ANY
component in your system places comfortable termination
of flight at-risk, then you need to ASSUME that
failure is going to happen and have a plan-b in
place. Upgrading any one component to space-flight
reliability numbers is not the path to aviation
Nirvana. For example, why put a $100 switch on a
landing light when you KNOW the bulb is going to
burn out?
An excerpt from another article on aeroelectric.com . . .
Nuckolls' first law of airplane systems design sez: "Things break"
The Second: "Systems shall be designed so that when things break,
no immediate hazard is created."
The third: "Things needed for comfortable termination of flight
require backup or special consideration to insure operation and
availability"
The forth: "Upgrading the quality, reliability, longevity,
or capability of a part shall be because you're tired of replacing
it or want some new feature, not because it damned near got you
killed."
If these tenants are observed (not difficult to do) then it makes
no difference where you buy your parts, how much money you spend
on them or which parts you select. You're free to try any selection
with the goal of exploring how long it will last or how well
it will perform.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Essential Bus Switch |
At 10:19 AM 4/10/2016, you wrote:
>Good info Bob. I REALLY want to thank you and
>the other guys on the AeroElectric forum for you
>time, effort, and experience in helping me
>during this project=85GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!
You are most welcome sir but you have
come to the right place. This is what
we do here.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Essential Bus Switch |
Yes I know this is what you (all) do.however.this is an amazing "service" to
the experimental aircraft community and it is important for me to voice
(type) my gratitude!!!
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 12:30 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Essential Bus Switch
At 10:19 AM 4/10/2016, you wrote:
Good info Bob. I REALLY want to thank you and the other guys on the
AeroElectric forum for you time, effort, and experience in helping me during
this project.GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!
You are most welcome sir but you have
come to the right place. This is what
we do here.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Aveo Rock Rack Switches |
I am looking at the Aevo Rock Rack Switches however they are out of stock on
most of the switch actuators (rocker top with the icon) so they will not
have all that I want.
I understand that the switches are simply Carling Contura switch bodies with
Aevo designed laser etched icon in the actuator.
I have found online that there are companies that will custom etch an icon
on the switch actuator for you however I need to first determine what
actuator design (profile/look) the Aevo guy used for his base product.
Does anyone know what model of Contura the Aevo is based off of?
This is what Aevo offers:
http://21stcentury-usa.com/aveo/rockrack/ordering/tops/primaryengine/
Here is the Carling ad on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euw2jhUYpYI
THANKS!!!
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
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