---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 04/16/16: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:11 AM - Re: Capacitance fuel sensors (donjohnston) 2. 04:42 AM - switches (bob noffs) 3. 05:47 AM - Where to install the GEA24 engine box and the GSU25 AHRS (was CAN Bus wiring) (Carlos Trigo) 4. 05:57 AM - Re: Re: Capacitance fuel sensors (Charlie England) 5. 07:04 AM - Re: Re: Capacitance fuel sensors (Charles Kuss) 6. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: Capacitance fuel sensors (William Hunter) 7. 10:01 AM - ME CS-6AB Current Sensor Better Than Shunt and/or Hall Effect Device For Dynon MGL or Grand Rapids?!?!?!? (William Hunter) 8. 02:25 PM - Re: Re: Capacitance fuel sensors (William Hunter) 9. 04:34 PM - Re: ME CS-6AB Current Sensor Better Than Shunt and/or Hall Effec (user9253) 10. 06:30 PM - Re: Re: Capacitance fuel sensors (Rick Beebe) 11. 08:17 PM - Re: Re: Capacitance fuel sensors (William Hunter) 12. 08:32 PM - Re: Re: Capacitance fuel sensors (Rick Beebe) 13. 08:45 PM - Re: Re: ME CS-6AB Current Sensor Better Than Shunt and/or Hall Effec (William Hunter) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:11:39 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Capacitance fuel sensors From: "donjohnston" speedy11 wrote: > Rick - > I installed the Princeton capacitance probes on my RV-8 and they are so unreliable as to be worthless. Their only value is to close the hole cut in the adapter plate to accommodate them. It sounds like you had these problems from day one, right? I have Princeton capacitance probes as well. They work fine with no problems so far. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455083#455083 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:42:40 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: switches From: bob noffs hi all, is there a correct way to orient battery and load on a switch when wiring? i am asking because of possible arcing in the switch if there is a wrong way. bob ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:40 AM PST US From: Carlos Trigo Subject: AeroElectric-List: Where to install the GEA24 engine box and the GSU25 AHRS (was CAN Bus wiring) > Hi Craig > > By the way, since you installed the G3X system very recently, I don't know which is your airplane, but where did you place the GEA24 (engine box) and t he GSU25 (AHARS module)? > > Carlos > > Enviado do meu iPhone > > No dia 15/04/2016, =C3-s 20:43, Craig L. Reding escreveu: > >> Carlos >> Don't know if you have seen some of the YouTube videos by SteinAir. He ha s some great videos on using solder sleeves and making up terminals. >> I just finished wiring up my panel which is a G3x system using the info f rom Steins videos and the cartoons from Bob on splicing two wires together a t a pin. >> >> Keep your can bus runs as short as possible if you are not using shielded wires and make sure that you use the termination at the end of the run and y ou should be fine >> >> Craig >> >>> On Apr 15, 2016, at 14:22, Rob Turk wrote: >>> >>> Hi Carlos, >>> >>> CAN bus attaches all systems in parallel on a 2-wire bus. Each node/syst em has a CAN-Hi and a CAN-Lo pin. As you already found, each pin has two wir es in the same pin, one coming from the previous node and one going to the n ext node. The first and the last node on the string have a terminating resis tor that you can place externally onto the cable, or when the node offers on e internally, by adding a jumper inside the last connector. >>> >>> Not sure which AHRS drawings you are looking at, but some nodes offer ot her bus connections like RS-232 or RS-485. Is that what confused you? >>> >>> Rob >>> >>> >>>> On 4/15/2016 7:04 PM, Carlos Trigo wrote: >>>> In the installation of a Garmin G3X system, to interconnect the various components you have to build a network called CAN Bus, similar to the syste m created by BOSCH for the automotive industry. >>>> >>>> I cannot find, in the Garmin installation manual, how to physically bui ld this network. >>>> In some interconnect drawings (for example to connect the autopilot ser vos) they show the CAN wires going in and out of the connectors, therefore i n this case I suppose I have to crimp 2 wires in the same pin. >>>> But in other drawings ( to connect to the AHARS or the Displays) they s how a node connection, which I am wondering how to make it. >>>> >>>> So, can anyone who knows how to do it, or already did it, please explai n how do I physically connect the 2-wires shielded cables to obtain a correc tly built CAN bus backbone. >>>> >>>> Best >>>> Carlos >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sem v=C3=ADrus. www.avast.com >>> ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:52 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Capacitance fuel sensors From: Charlie England On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 4:07 AM, donjohnston wrote: > don@velocity-xl.com> > > > speedy11 wrote: > > Rick - > > I installed the Princeton capacitance probes on my RV-8 and they are so > unreliable as to be worthless. Their only value is to close the hole cut > in the adapter plate to accommodate them. > > > It sounds like you had these problems from day one, right? > > I have Princeton capacitance probes as well. They work fine with no > problems so far. > > > Uh..... ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:17 AM PST US From: Charles Kuss Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Capacitance fuel sensors Rick, If you are using auto fuel with ethanol in it, the ethanol content will totally mess up the capacitance senders. It's not the fault of the brand you are using or the design of the senders. This is an issue with ALL capacitance fuel sender systems operating in the presence of fuel with ethanol in it. The only cures are to either eliminate the use of ethanol laced gasoline OR to install a set of float style sending units. Charlie speedy11 wrote: > Rick - > I installed the Princeton capacitance probes on my RV-8 and they are so unreliable as to be worthless. Their only value is to close the hole cut in the adapter plate to accommodate them. It sounds like you had these problems from day one, right? I have Princeton capacitance probes as well. They work fine with no problems so far. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455083#455083 Lists This Month -- Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) Raiser. Click on more about Gifts provided www.buildersbooks.com -Matt Dralle, List Admin. AeroElectric-List Email Forum - - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:44:38 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Capacitance fuel sensors From: William Hunter Did you bend the probe in the place where it should not be bent? Bill Hunter On Apr 16, 2016 9:03 AM, "Charlie England" wrote: > > > On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 4:07 AM, donjohnston wrote: > >> don@velocity-xl.com> >> >> >> speedy11 wrote: >> > Rick - >> > I installed the Princeton capacitance probes on my RV-8 and they are >> so unreliable as to be worthless. Their only value is to close the hole >> cut in the adapter plate to accommodate them. >> >> >> It sounds like you had these problems from day one, right? >> >> I have Princeton capacitance probes as well. They work fine with no >> problems so far. >> >> >> Uh..... > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:01:20 AM PST US From: "William Hunter" Subject: AeroElectric-List: ME CS-6AB Current Sensor Better Than Shunt and/or Hall Effect Device For Dynon MGL or Grand Rapids?!?!?!? Hi Cyber-Electric Friends, I am rewiring a Velocity with a new Dynon SkyView system. Naturally in search for the cheapest deal I spend 20 hours online just to save $1.50. I was looking for a CS-02 Grand Rapids Hall Effect Device to sense the amperage from my SD-20 when I stumbled upon this baby (ME CS-6AB). http://www.crazedpilot.com/high-accuracy-current-sensor-for-5v-input-5v-supp ly-engine-monitor-systems-dynon-mgl-grand-rapids-garmin-and-more-ems-efis-sy stems/ So it looks really promising.it is a mini PC board that tie wraps onto the B Field wire of your alternator and it magically measures the current flowing through the wire.the advertisement states that it is BETTER THAN A SHUNT and/or the Grand Rapids CS-01/02 because: -It does have an advantage in that it just tie wraps onto the wire so you do not have an additional connector. -Works on any gauge wire. -It is supposed to be much more accurate. -It is cheaper. -It works with practically all EFIS systems. -It has an LED that looks cool. So does this thing really work??? Has anyone used it? I don't want to spend 20 more hours on tech support trying to get this thing to work. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!!! .. Cheers!!! Bill Hunter ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:25:06 PM PST US From: "William Hunter" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Capacitance fuel sensors Another thought on capacitance probes... If they never worked right then I would think the probes were bent in the do not bend area. If they worked well at one time and are unreliable now then there might be water in the system. If they work now but are very inaccurate, did you calibrate them using auto fuel (or some other liquid) and are now using 100LL (or some other liquid). When calibrating they need to be calibrated using the liquid you intend to run. If you change your type of liquid AVGAS/MOGAS/JETA/WATER or other containments then they will always read wrong. .. Cheers!!! Bill Hunter -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of donjohnston Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2016 2:07 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Capacitance fuel sensors speedy11 wrote: > Rick - > I installed the Princeton capacitance probes on my RV-8 and they are so unreliable as to be worthless. Their only value is to close the hole cut in the adapter plate to accommodate them. It sounds like you had these problems from day one, right? I have Princeton capacitance probes as well. They work fine with no problems so far. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455083#455083 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:57 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: ME CS-6AB Current Sensor Better Than Shunt and/or Hall Effec From: "user9253" If you really want to save money, do not install any kind of current sensor. If the SkyView voltmeter indicates above 13 volts, then the alternator is working. An ammeter is nice to have but is not a necessity. What is the maximum current that the ME CS-6AB can measure? Can it measure bi-directional current? Search eBay for item #201558698343 or for ACS758. The disadvantage of these current sensors is that the aircraft power cable must be cut, resulting in more possible failure points. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455116#455116 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:30:12 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Capacitance fuel sensors From: Rick Beebe I know you may be addressing Stan's issues but some of it may apply to me. I just bought the plane in December. The seller had bought a replacement gauge so he knew there was a problem but I don't know for how long. I tested the installed gauge and it's fine. No water shows up when I sump the tanks. As far as I know it's never had mogas in it. Always 100LL. It's very perplexing. --Rick On 4/16/2016 5:19 PM, William Hunter wrote: > > Another thought on capacitance probes... > > If they never worked right then I would think the probes were bent in the do > not bend area. > > If they worked well at one time and are unreliable now then there might be > water in the system. > > If they work now but are very inaccurate, did you calibrate them using auto > fuel (or some other liquid) and are now using 100LL (or some other liquid). > When calibrating they need to be calibrated using the liquid you intend to > run. If you change your type of liquid AVGAS/MOGAS/JETA/WATER or other > containments then they will always read wrong. > > .. > > Cheers!!! > > Bill Hunter > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > donjohnston > Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2016 2:07 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Capacitance fuel sensors > > > > speedy11 wrote: >> Rick - >> I installed the Princeton capacitance probes on my RV-8 and they are so > unreliable as to be worthless. Their only value is to close the hole cut in > the adapter plate to accommodate them. > > > It sounds like you had these problems from day one, right? > > I have Princeton capacitance probes as well. They work fine with no problems > so far. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:31 PM PST US From: "William Hunter" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Capacitance fuel sensors A capacitance fuel probe is just a small metallic wire sticking down the center of a larger diameter metallic tube. Even if you run MOGAS today (or kerosene or water or vodka) it does not matter next week what happened today once the offending liquid is removed and the original liquid is installed in the tank. All the capacitance probes measure is the resistance between an inner conductor (wire) and an outer tube that is also a conductor because a given liquid will have a certain resistance between the outer conductor and the inner conductor and that resistance will change as the liquid in the gas tank rises up the probe(s) as you fill or empty the tank. Has your capacitance probes ever read correctly? If when building the airplane the builder was too cheap to buy 100LL and used MOGAS or water or beer to calibrate the fuel probes (pouring in 5 gallons at a time...looking at the reading on the fuel gauge...then pouring in 5 more gallons...repeat) then the system was calibrated based on the liquid that was used. If he used 100LL to calibrate the system and then now the readings are various and unreliable then the question would be where are the lowest point of the probes located...are they at the very lowest point of the tank??? If so then there might be some water puddled there at the very lowest part of the tank and if that just happens to be where the fuel probe bottom is located then there might be some water puddled around the very bottom of the fuel probe and this water is screwing around with the resistance readings of the probes. If there is no water in the fuel and lets say you have always run MOGAS and the fuel probes were calibrated using MOGAS and this day you dump in 50 gallons of AVGAS then you could expect to see a difference in the max/mid/low quantity indications of your gauges...once you have burned or dumped out that fuel load and have refueled with MOGAS then the gauges would read correctly because the liquid in the tanks is the correct resistance. .. Cheers!!! Bill Hunter -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Beebe Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2016 6:25 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Capacitance fuel sensors I know you may be addressing Stan's issues but some of it may apply to me. I just bought the plane in December. The seller had bought a replacement gauge so he knew there was a problem but I don't know for how long. I tested the installed gauge and it's fine. No water shows up when I sump the tanks. As far as I know it's never had mogas in it. Always 100LL. It's very perplexing. --Rick On 4/16/2016 5:19 PM, William Hunter wrote: > --> > > Another thought on capacitance probes... > > If they never worked right then I would think the probes were bent in > the do not bend area. > > If they worked well at one time and are unreliable now then there > might be water in the system. > > If they work now but are very inaccurate, did you calibrate them using > auto fuel (or some other liquid) and are now using 100LL (or some other liquid). > When calibrating they need to be calibrated using the liquid you > intend to run. If you change your type of liquid > AVGAS/MOGAS/JETA/WATER or other containments then they will always read wrong. > > .. > > Cheers!!! > > Bill Hunter > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > donjohnston > Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2016 2:07 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Capacitance fuel sensors > > --> > > > speedy11 wrote: >> Rick - >> I installed the Princeton capacitance probes on my RV-8 and they >> are so > unreliable as to be worthless. Their only value is to close the hole > cut in the adapter plate to accommodate them. > > > It sounds like you had these problems from day one, right? > > I have Princeton capacitance probes as well. They work fine with no > problems so far. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:34 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Capacitance fuel sensors From: Rick Beebe On 4/16/2016 11:15 PM, William Hunter wrote: > Has your capacitance probes ever read correctly? I presume the builder and the subsequent buyer (his son, actually) wouldn't have let the plane go 14 years with wrong gauges. The rest of his craftsmanship is too good for that. > If when building the airplane the builder was too cheap to buy 100LL and > used MOGAS or water or beer to calibrate the fuel probes (pouring in 5 > gallons at a time...looking at the reading on the fuel gauge...then pouring > in 5 more gallons...repeat) then the system was calibrated based on the > liquid that was used. Actually calibration is a lot simpler than that with this system. There's an 'empty' pot that you adjust with no fuel in the tank until the gauges (which are really just relabeled volt meters) read empty. Then fill the tanks and adjust the "full" pot until the gauge reads full. One of the needles wasn't pointing to full and I was able to adjust that. But it often seems to drop to 1/4 and then go back up. I guess I'm concluding that maybe the sender is broken and that inner wire is moving places it shouldn't. --Rick ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:27 PM PST US From: "William Hunter" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: ME CS-6AB Current Sensor Better Than Shunt and/or Hall Effec > If you really want to save money, do not install any kind of current sensor. If the SkyView voltmeter indicates above 13 volts, then the alternator is working. An ammeter is nice to have but is not a necessity. Hmmmm...of course I did not think of that... Why...because I paid damn good money for all of this fancy colorful Dynon crap and I have maxed out ALL 37 pins of the Dynon 37 pin (actually it is more like 33 pins) connector with a bunch of superfluous crap to the point where I just want to look stare at all of the fancy colors on the screen...and just like a moth flying into a flame...I do not wat to even look outside the airplane...I just want to stare at my BIG TEN INCH screen and congratulate myself that my SD-20 alternator (something that I really don't even need) is putting out 20.3 AMPS and give myself a big "high five" right before I crash into Mount Whitney.... > What is the maximum current that the ME CS-6AB can measure? Don't know....good question... >Can it measure bi-directional current? Don't know...good question... Thanks for the leads!!! .. Cheers!!! Bill Hunter -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of user9253 Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2016 4:31 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: ME CS-6AB Current Sensor Better Than Shunt and/or Hall Effec If you really want to save money, do not install any kind of current sensor. If the SkyView voltmeter indicates above 13 volts, then the alternator is working. An ammeter is nice to have but is not a necessity. What is the maximum current that the ME CS-6AB can measure? Can it measure bi-directional current? Search eBay for item #201558698343 or for ACS758. The disadvantage of these current sensors is that the aircraft power cable must be cut, resulting in more possible failure points. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455116#455116 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.