Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:26 AM - Re: diodes (Edwardoc)
2. 09:20 AM - Re: Re: diodes (Charlie England)
3. 09:37 AM - Re: Re: diodes (Tim)
4. 09:45 AM - Re: diodes (user9253)
5. 01:59 PM - Re: diodes (Edwardoc)
6. 02:55 PM - Re: Re: diodes (Charlie England)
7. 11:02 PM - Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
8. 11:05 PM - Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:56 PM, Edwardoc wrote:
>
> >
> > At the risk of being shot I have a question concerning how to hook a diode
to my new starter contact. I am replacing the one that came from Vans in 2005
with a Lamar brand contractor but the coil lugs are not labeled S & I like the
old one. I think I have figured out which side of the coil is the 12-V input
and the other one I think hooks to ground. Lamar web site shows two types of
hookups depending on a negative or positive switching but not sure where to hook
the diode to for the positive switching wiring. On the old contractor one of
the coil lugs was internally grounded but on the Lamar neither one is. Any inputs.
Couldn't find anything in my searches.
> >
> > After reading about contractors and voltage spikes, I may have some burned
contacts on my key starting switch as I did not install a diode on the starter
contractor on 2006 and have been having trouble on and off for two years with
my starter acting like it is getting low voltage even though all the voltages
check OK under load. Starter has been rebuilt by SkyTec.
> > The problem is on some starts the pinion gear moves forward on the Sky Tec
LS starter but not with enough force to engage the gears on the flywheel and
thus the starter motor does not turn. Sometimes holding the key on will cause
it to finally engage and start. Other times it works fine both hot and cold engine.
Other times it will not engage at all unless someone moves the prop slightly
while I hold the starter key on and then it engages and the starter cranks
the engine fine.
> > Changing the contractor just to eliminate that as a cause before replacing
the key starter switch. 8)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> If the pinion teeth actually engage the flywheel teeth, but it doesn't turn,
then either the starter motor is defective (unlikely, if intermittent) or it isn't
seeing full battery voltage. That can be caused by dirty/corroded crimps,
terminals, etc, anywhere between the battery positive post and the battery negative
post. In other words, don't forget to check the ground path, too. It can
also be caused by defective contacts in the solenoid that's mounted on the starter
itself. Make yourself an extension wire & hook one end to the heavy B+
terminal on the starter and the other end to your volt meter positive lead. hold
the meter negative *directly* on the battery negative post (not on the connector).
Push the start button. You should see 8-10 volts on the meter if the prop
turns. If it doesn't turn, and you see less than 9 volts, you've got either
a bad connection somewhere or a bad battery.
>
>
> Use the ohm meter function to check the separate starter contactor. It should
have 2 big & 1 or 2 small terminals. Measure resistance from the metal frame
to each small terminal. If one of them is tied to the frame, it will read near
zero ohms on your meter. The other would then read ~4-6 ohms to ground.
>
>
> If one reads 4-6 ohms to the frame, and the other reads open circuit (infinite
resistance), then you've got a contactor with S & I terminals.
>
>
> In either case, hook up your diode so the arrow points toward the terminal that
reads 4-6 ohms to ground. That is also where you'll hook your control line
from your starter switch. B+ from bus to switch to contactor terminal. The other
end of the diode goes to ground/frame.
>
>
> Note that if neither terminal shows low/no resistance to ground, but you read
15-20 ohms between the small terminals, you probably don't have a starter contactor.
It's likely a master contactor. Will maybe work for a while, but life
may be short.
>
>
>
> The pinion gear moves and hits the flywheel ring gear but does not engage the
teeth. You can hear it and an observer can see it move and strike the flywheel.
SkyTec told me that unless the pinion gear engages the teeth, the starter motor
will not begin to rotate until it is full forward. I have suspected low
voltage but once you nudge the prop just a bit the pinion gear slides forward,
engages the ring gear and then the starter rotates and spins the prop as if it
were normal. Also I have had occasions where I turn the key and the starter
engages normal and get normal rotation and enging start. The engine dies, I
turn the key again and the pinion gear will not engage. Nudge the prop and fraction
of an inch with the key held in start and it engages and I start the engine.
I am going to install a button switch and bypass the key switch for a test
if replacing the contractor did not do anything.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455717#455717
Message 2
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On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 10:25 AM, Edwardoc <Rv8tor@mac.com> wrote:
>
>
> ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:56 PM, Edwardoc wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > At the risk of being shot I have a question concerning how to hook a
> diode to my new starter contact. I am replacing the one that came from
> Vans in 2005 with a Lamar brand contractor but the coil lugs are not
> labeled S & I like the old one. I think I have figured out which side of
> the coil is the 12-V input and the other one I think hooks to ground.
> Lamar web site shows two types of hookups depending on a negative or
> positive switching but not sure where to hook the diode to for the positive
> switching wiring. On the old contractor one of the coil lugs was
> internally grounded but on the Lamar neither one is. Any inputs. Couldn't
> find anything in my searches.
> > >
> > > After reading about contractors and voltage spikes, I may have some
> burned contacts on my key starting switch as I did not install a diode on
> the starter contractor on 2006 and have been having trouble on and off for
> two years with my starter acting like it is getting low voltage even though
> all the voltages check OK under load. Starter has been rebuilt by SkyTec.
> > > The problem is on some starts the pinion gear moves forward on the
> Sky Tec LS starter but not with enough force to engage the gears on the
> flywheel and thus the starter motor does not turn. Sometimes holding the
> key on will cause it to finally engage and start. Other times it works
> fine both hot and cold engine. Other times it will not engage at all
> unless someone moves the prop slightly while I hold the starter key on and
> then it engages and the starter cranks the engine fine.
> > > Changing the contractor just to eliminate that as a cause before
> replacing the key starter switch. 8)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > If the pinion teeth actually engage the flywheel teeth, but it doesn't
> turn, then either the starter motor is defective (unlikely, if
> intermittent) or it isn't seeing full battery voltage. That can be caused
> by dirty/corroded crimps, terminals, etc, anywhere between the battery
> positive post and the battery negative post. In other words, don't forget
> to check the ground path, too. It can also be caused by defective contacts
> in the solenoid that's mounted on the starter itself. Make yourself an
> extension wire & hook one end to the heavy B+ terminal on the starter and
> the other end to your volt meter positive lead. hold the meter negative
> *directly* on the battery negative post (not on the connector). Push the
> start button. You should see 8-10 volts on the meter if the prop turns. If
> it doesn't turn, and you see less than 9 volts, you've got either a bad
> connection somewhere or a bad battery.
> >
> >
> > Use the ohm meter function to check the separate starter contactor. It
> should have 2 big & 1 or 2 small terminals. Measure resistance from the
> metal frame to each small terminal. If one of them is tied to the frame, it
> will read near zero ohms on your meter. The other would then read ~4-6 ohms
> to ground.
> >
> >
> > If one reads 4-6 ohms to the frame, and the other reads open circuit
> (infinite resistance), then you've got a contactor with S & I terminals.
> >
> >
> > In either case, hook up your diode so the arrow points toward the
> terminal that reads 4-6 ohms to ground. That is also where you'll hook your
> control line from your starter switch. B+ from bus to switch to contactor
> terminal. The other end of the diode goes to ground/frame.
> >
> >
> > Note that if neither terminal shows low/no resistance to ground, but you
> read 15-20 ohms between the small terminals, you probably don't have a
> starter contactor. It's likely a master contactor. Will maybe work for a
> while, but life may be short.
>
> >
>
> >
> >
> > The pinion gear moves and hits the flywheel ring gear but does not
> engage the teeth. You can hear it and an observer can see it move and
> strike the flywheel. SkyTec told me that unless the pinion gear engages the
> teeth, the starter motor will not begin to rotate until it is full
> forward. I have suspected low voltage but once you nudge the prop just a
> bit the pinion gear slides forward, engages the ring gear and then the
> starter rotates and spins the prop as if it were normal. Also I have had
> occasions where I turn the key and the starter engages normal and get
> normal rotation and enging start. The engine dies, I turn the key again
> and the pinion gear will not engage. Nudge the prop and fraction of an
> inch with the key held in start and it engages and I start the engine. I
> am going to install a button switch and bypass the key switch for a test if
> replacing the contractor did not do anything.
>
>
> That sounds like you might have a physical/mechanical issue, rather than
an electrical one. There are clearance specs for the pinion to ring gear
mesh. If the pinion is hitting the ring itself, it can't mesh its teeth
with the ring gear teeth. Ask SkyTec for their clearance specs. For a quick
check, look at the ring gear teeth & pinion teeth. The shiny (contact) area
shouldn't extend all the way to the bottom of the V between teeth. You may
need to shim the starter's base away from the motor mounting surface
slightly.
Message 3
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Edwardoc" <Rv8tor@mac.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2016 11:25 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: diodes
This is different from what I observed recently on a project the a Suburu
engine conversion and an automotive starter. When installed the starter
would extend and hit the flywheel but not always engage and turn. If you
moved the flywheel a little so it would engage the gear it would work fine.
I turns out, at least in this case the started has to turn to engage. That
is if it doesn't extend far enough it will not start to turn. We solved the
problem with a thin shim sheet under the starter. This way the starter would
extend hit the flywheel begin turning and then engage.
Tim Shankland
>>
>> The pinion gear moves and hits the flywheel ring gear but does not engage
>> the teeth. You can hear it and an observer can see it move and strike the
>> flywheel. SkyTec told me that unless the pinion gear engages the teeth,
>> the starter motor will not begin to rotate until it is full forward. I
>> have suspected low voltage but once you nudge the prop just a bit the
>> pinion gear slides forward, engages the ring gear and then the starter
>> rotates and spins the prop as if it were normal. Also I have had
>> occasions where I turn the key and the starter engages normal and get
>> normal rotation and enging start. The engine dies, I turn the key again
>> and the pinion gear will not engage. Nudge the prop and fraction of an
>> inch with the key held in start and it engages and I start the engine. I
>> am going to install a button switch and bypass the key switch for a test
>> if replacing the contractor did not do anything.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455717#455717
>
>
>
Message 4
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Agree with Charlie. Sounds like a timing or alignment issue between the ring gear
and starter.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455722#455722
Message 5
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[/quote]
That sounds like you might have a physical/mechanical issue, rather than an electrical
one. There are clearance specs for the pinion to ring gear mesh. If the
pinion is hitting the ring itself, it can't mesh its teeth with the ring gear
teeth. Ask SkyTec for their clearance specs. For a quick check, look at the
ring gear teeth & pinion teeth. The shiny (contact) area shouldn't extend all
the way to the bottom of the V between teeth. You may need to shim the starter's
base away from the motor mounting surface slightly.[/quote]
Thanks. Another mechanic had suggested shimming the starter slightly to ensure
just a little bit more clearance between the teeth. I had resisted this since
a loner SkyTec LS starter seemed to work fine although I did not use it for
more then about 5-6 starts but it never hung up. Will call SkyTec tomorrow to
see what their opinion is about the shims. Thanks again.
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455731#455731
Message 6
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On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 3:57 PM, Edwardoc <Rv8tor@mac.com> wrote:
>
> [/quote]
> That sounds like you might have a physical/mechanical issue, rather than
> an electrical one. There are clearance specs for the pinion to ring gear
> mesh. If the pinion is hitting the ring itself, it can't mesh its teeth
> with the ring gear teeth. Ask SkyTec for their clearance specs. For a quick
> check, look at the ring gear teeth & pinion teeth. The shiny (contact) area
> shouldn't extend all the way to the bottom of the V between teeth. You may
> need to shim the starter's base away from the motor mounting surface
> slightly.[/quote]
>
> Thanks. Another mechanic had suggested shimming the starter slightly to
> ensure just a little bit more clearance between the teeth. I had resisted
> this since a loner SkyTec LS starter seemed to work fine although I did not
> use it for more then about 5-6 starts but it never hung up. Will call
> SkyTec tomorrow to see what their opinion is about the shims. Thanks again.
> >
>
>
> Remember, this stuff ain't rocket surgery. There's a reason a lot of
people put 'aircraft quality' in quotes. And that's why Lyc has clearance
specs, and methodology to check for it, and compensate if necessary. :-)
Message 7
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The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?AeroElectric
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
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*** File and Photo Share ***
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With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
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*** List Archive CDROM ***
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A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
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******************************************************************************
AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
AeroElectric-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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|
Subject: | Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
AeroElectric-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
AeroElectric-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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