---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 05/13/16: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:52 AM - Warm Extension Cord (Art Zemon) 2. 03:43 AM - Re: Warm Extension Cord (racerjerry) 3. 04:21 AM - Re: Warm Extension Cord (bob noffs) 4. 06:06 AM - Re: Warm Extension Cord (Rene) 5. 07:11 AM - Re: Warm Extension Cord (Art Zemon) 6. 08:01 AM - Re: Warm Extension Cord (Neal George) 7. 08:28 AM - Re: Warm Extension Cord (Rene) 8. 08:40 AM - Re: Warm Extension Cord (ARGOLDMAN@aol.com) 9. 08:47 AM - Re: Warm Extension Cord (Robert Reed) 10. 09:19 AM - Re: Warm Extension Cord (Eric Page) 11. 09:25 AM - Re: Warm Extension Cord (John Cox) 12. 10:05 AM - Re: Warm Extension Cord (Lyle Peterson) 13. 10:54 AM - Re: Warm Extension Cord (Charlie England) 14. 11:49 AM - Re: Re: finding the correct crimper (Ken Ryan) 15. 12:41 PM - Re: Warm Extension Cord (Ed Gilroy) 16. 02:19 PM - Re: Warm Extension Cord (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 17. 03:28 PM - Off list contact (Richard Girard) 18. 04:49 PM - Re: Off list contact (Bill) 19. 08:51 PM - Re: Warm Extension Cord (Neal George) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:52:02 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord From: Art Zemon Folks, This isn't aero but it is electric so I figure someone here will have an opinion. When I am away from home, I use an extension cord to charge my electric car. Tonight, I noticed that the wire (not the connectors) was warm to the touch when I unplugged the car. The warmth surprised me. Here are the specs: - 120V AC - charger draws 12A - 16 AWG conductors in the extension cord - cord is 25 feet long - cord was advertised as suitable for up to 13A I'm inclined to replace the cord with one with 14 AWG conductors. Yes? Thanks, -- Art Z. -- http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:43:30 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Warm Extension Cord From: "racerjerry" YES, replace with #14 or heavier. With any heating effects like this, make sure that you do NOT COIL up any loose ends of the extension cord, or the heat will be concentrated, causing the cord to melt and short out. -------- Jerry King Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456177#456177 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:21:23 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord From: bob noffs that is at the max for the cord but not over the rating.a few years ago i made up some extension cords for 1500 watt heaters and used 12 ga. plenty of margin there. i guess i would feel better with 12ga. sounds like a one and done purchase. funny the connectors aren't warm. bob noffs On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 3:49 AM, Art Zemon wrote: > Folks, > > This isn't aero but it is electric so I figure someone here will have an > opinion. When I am away from home, I use an extension cord to charge my > electric car. Tonight, I noticed that the wire (not the connectors) was > warm to the touch when I unplugged the car. The warmth surprised me. Here > are the specs: > > - 120V AC > - charger draws 12A > - 16 AWG conductors in the extension cord > - cord is 25 feet long > - cord was advertised as suitable for up to 13A > > I'm inclined to replace the cord with one with 14 AWG conductors. Yes? > > Thanks, > -- Art Z. > > -- > http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ > > *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what > am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:24 AM PST US From: "Rene" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord Was the wire coiled? Rene' 801-721-6080 From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Art Zemon Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 2:50 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord Folks, This isn't aero but it is electric so I figure someone here will have an opinion. When I am away from home, I use an extension cord to charge my electric car. Tonight, I noticed that the wire (not the connectors) was warm to the touch when I unplugged the car. The warmth surprised me. Here are the specs: * 120V AC * charger draws 12A * 16 AWG conductors in the extension cord * cord is 25 feet long * cord was advertised as suitable for up to 13A I'm inclined to replace the cord with one with 14 AWG conductors. Yes? Thanks, -- Art Z. -- http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ "If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:48 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord From: Art Zemon No -- Art Z. Sent from my phone so please excuse typos and brevity. On May 13, 2016 8:30 AM, "Rene" wrote: > Was the wire coiled? > > > Rene' > > 801-721-6080 > > > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Art Zemon > *Sent:* Friday, May 13, 2016 2:50 AM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord > > > Folks, > > > This isn't aero but it is electric so I figure someone here will have an > opinion. When I am away from home, I use an extension cord to charge my > electric car. Tonight, I noticed that the wire (not the connectors) was > warm to the touch when I unplugged the car. The warmth surprised me. Here > are the specs: > > - 120V AC > - charger draws 12A > - 16 AWG conductors in the extension cord > - cord is 25 feet long > - cord was advertised as suitable for up to 13A > > I'm inclined to replace the cord with one with 14 AWG conductors. Yes? > > > Thanks, > > -- Art Z. > > > -- > > http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ > > *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what > am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:05 AM PST US From: Neal George Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord RXZlbiBpZiB0aGUgZXh0ZW5zaW9uIGNvcmQgd2FzIGNvaWxlZCwgcGFpcmVkIGNvbmR1Y3RvcnMg d291bGQgZWZmZWN0aXZlbHkgY2FuY2VsIHRoZSBjb2lsIGVmZmVjdOKApg0KDQpuZWFsDQoNCg0K Tm8NCg0KICAgIC0tIEFydCBaLg0KDQpTZW50IGZyb20gbXkgcGhvbmUgc28gcGxlYXNlIGV4Y3Vz ZSB0eXBvcyBhbmQgYnJldml0eS4NCk9uIE1heSAxMywgMjAxNiA4OjMwIEFNLCAiUmVuZSIgPHJl bmVAZmVsa2VyLmNvbTxtYWlsdG86cmVuZUBmZWxrZXIuY29tPj4gd3JvdGU6DQpXYXMgdGhlIHdp cmUgY29pbGVkPw0KUmVuZScNCjgwMS03MjEtNjA4MDx0ZWw6ODAxLTcyMS02MDgwPg0KRm9sa3Ms DQpUaGlzIGlzbid0IGFlcm8gYnV0IGl0IGlzIGVsZWN0cmljIHNvIEkgZmlndXJlIHNvbWVvbmUg aGVyZSB3aWxsIGhhdmUgYW4gb3Bpbmlvbi4gV2hlbiBJIGFtIGF3YXkgZnJvbSBob21lLCBJIHVz ZSBhbiBleHRlbnNpb24gY29yZCB0byBjaGFyZ2UgbXkgZWxlY3RyaWMgY2FyLiBUb25pZ2h0LCBJ IG5vdGljZWQgdGhhdCB0aGUgd2lyZSAobm90IHRoZSBjb25uZWN0b3JzKSB3YXMgd2FybSB0byB0 aGUgdG91Y2ggd2hlbiBJIHVucGx1Z2dlZCB0aGUgY2FyLiBUaGUgd2FybXRoIHN1cnByaXNlZCBt ZS4gSGVyZSBhcmUgdGhlIHNwZWNzOg0KDQogICogICAxMjBWIEFDDQogICogICBjaGFyZ2VyIGRy YXdzIDEyQQ0KICAqICAgMTYgQVdHIGNvbmR1Y3RvcnMgaW4gdGhlIGV4dGVuc2lvbiBjb3JkDQog ICogICBjb3JkIGlzIDI1IGZlZXQgbG9uZw0KICAqICAgY29yZCB3YXMgYWR2ZXJ0aXNlZCBhcyBz dWl0YWJsZSBmb3IgdXAgdG8gMTNBDQpJJ20gaW5jbGluZWQgdG8gcmVwbGFjZSB0aGUgY29yZCB3 aXRoIG9uZSB3aXRoIDE0IEFXRyBjb25kdWN0b3JzLiBZZXM/DQpUaGFua3MsDQogICAgLS0gQXJ0 IFouDQo ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:28:30 AM PST US From: "Rene" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord First hand experiencethe heat build up can go out of control. Melted both the cable and a plastic spool it was on. Was on a camper and the wire did not feel =9Cwarm=9D normally but left it on the spool because it was a short distance.spool and wire became one. Needed new spool and wire.. Rene' 801-721-6080 From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neal George Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 8:55 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord Even if the extension cord was coiled, paired conductors would effectively cancel the coil effect neal No -- Art Z. Sent from my phone so please excuse typos and brevity. On May 13, 2016 8:30 AM, "Rene" wrote: Was the wire coiled? Rene' 801-721-6080 Folks, This isn't aero but it is electric so I figure someone here will have an opinion. When I am away from home, I use an extension cord to charge my electric car. Tonight, I noticed that the wire (not the connectors) was warm to the touch when I unplugged the car. The warmth surprised me. Here are the specs: * 120V AC * charger draws 12A * 16 AWG conductors in the extension cord * cord is 25 feet long * cord was advertised as suitable for up to 13A I'm inclined to replace the cord with one with 14 AWG conductors. Yes? Thanks, -- Art Z. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:40:58 AM PST US From: ARGOLDMAN@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord Greetings Art et al. Advertised as????. Don't know if I would buy that. Every wire has a certain resistance per foot (inch-nanometer) look at your aircraft tables. You seem to be overstressing the wire in that as electron s pass through any wire, the resistance to the flow not only creates voltag e drop, but that resisted energy is expressed as heat. ( energy is not lost but is converted) What you are experiencing is that heat, that you can feel, in this case. the extension chord wire is of too small a gauge or is too long for your application. -- unless the heating is acceptable to the insulation. I would get a better grade (gauge) of extension chord or shorten it as much as possible (resistance, remember is per foot etc). Don't coil the ch ord as the heat buildup may not have the ability to go into the atmosphere wh ere it is harmless (that's where the heat of the engine goes... if it cant-- well.) Rich In a message dated 5/13/2016 8:29:27 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rene@felker.com writes: First hand experiencethe heat build up can go out of co ntrol. Melted both the cable and a plastic spool it was on. Was on a camper and the wi re did not feel =9Cwarm=9D normally but left it on the spool beca use it was a short distance.spool and wire became one. Needed new spool and wire.. Rene' 801-721-6080 From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neal George Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 8:55 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord Even if the extension cord was coiled, paired conductors would effectivel y cancel the coil effect neal No -- Art Z. Sent from my phone so please excuse typos and brevity. On May 13, 2016 8:30 AM, "Rene" <_rene@felker.com_ (mailto:rene@felker.com ) > wrote: Was the wire coiled? Rene' _801-721-6080_ (tel:801-721-6080) Folks, This isn't aero but it is electric so I figure someone here will have an opinion. When I am away from home, I use an extension cord to charge my electric car. Tonight, I noticed that the wire (not the connectors) was warm to the touch when I unplugged the car. The warmth surprised me. Here are the specs: * 120V AC * charger draws 12A * 16 AWG conductors in the extension cord * cord is 25 feet long * cord was advertised as suitable for up to 13A I'm inclined to replace the cord with one with 14 AWG conductors. Yes? Thanks, -- Art Z. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:43 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord From: Robert Reed My common sense rule says that if the cord gets warm in the intended use the n a second rule becomes primary which considers the ability to monitor durin g use. If I can monitor during the entire time of usage then I can take acti on if it gets too hot. If the usage can not be monitored then it's damn che ap insurance and common sense to get a higher rated extension cord. Bob Reed Sent from my iPhone > On May 13, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Rene wrote: > > First hand experiencethe heat build up can go out of con trol. Melted both the cable and a plastic spool it was on. Was on a camper and the wire did not feel =9Cwarm=9D normally but left it on th e spool because it was a short distance.spool and wire bec ame one. Needed new spool and wire.. > > Rene' > 801-721-6080 > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelect ric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neal George > Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 8:55 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord > > Even if the extension cord was coiled, paired conductors would effectively cancel the coil effect > > neal > > No > > -- Art Z. > > Sent from my phone so please excuse typos and brevity. > > On May 13, 2016 8:30 AM, "Rene" wrote: > Was the wire coiled? > Rene' > 801-721-6080 > Folks, > This isn't aero but it is electric so I figure someone here will have an o pinion. When I am away from home, I use an extension cord to charge my elect ric car. Tonight, I noticed that the wire (not the connectors) was warm to t he touch when I unplugged the car. The warmth surprised me. Here are the spe cs: > 120V AC > charger draws 12A > 16 AWG conductors in the extension cord > cord is 25 feet long > cord was advertised as suitable for up to 13A > I'm inclined to replace the cord with one with 14 AWG conductors. Yes? > Thanks, > -- Art Z. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:06 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord From: Eric Page > On May 13, 2016, at 7:55 AM, Neal George w rote: > Even if the extension cord was coiled, paired conductors would effectively cancel the coil effect > > neal Avoiding a coil in an extension cord isn't intended to avoid electromagnetic effects. The problem is that a coiled cord tends to concentrate heat much m ore than a cord that's stretched out straight. Eric ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:08 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord From: John Cox Go for 12AWG stranded and mark the cost increase to common sense insurance. John Cox On May 13, 2016 01:58, "Art Zemon" wrote: > Folks, > > This isn't aero but it is electric so I figure someone here will have an > opinion. When I am away from home, I use an extension cord to charge my > electric car. Tonight, I noticed that the wire (not the connectors) was > warm to the touch when I unplugged the car. The warmth surprised me. Here > are the specs: > > - 120V AC > - charger draws 12A > - 16 AWG conductors in the extension cord > - cord is 25 feet long > - cord was advertised as suitable for up to 13A > > I'm inclined to replace the cord with one with 14 AWG conductors. Yes? > > Thanks, > -- Art Z. > > -- > http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ > > *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what > am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:05:45 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord From: Lyle Peterson I had the same experience as Rene' with a retractable extension cord. I was sure I had destroyed a brand new cord but fortunately the swollen insulation contracted. I was given a long extension cord recently because it was "twisted." On inspection I determined that it has been over heating causing the insulation to swell and get loose letting the three wires shift inside the insulation, probably when the cord was wound around something for transport to the next task. I was shopping for an extension cord and checking each cord's capacity. I was amazed when I noticed that all the cords claimed the same capacity regardless of the wire gauge. Marketing must have designed the labels and neither engineering nor risk management ever saw them. On 5/13/2016 10:26 AM, Rene wrote: > > First hand experiencethe heat build up can go out of control. Melted > both the cable and a plastic spool it was on. Was on a camper and the > wire did not feel warm normally but left it on the spool because it > was a short distance.spool and wire became one. Needed new spool > and wire.. > > Rene' > > 801-721-6080 > > *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *Neal George > *Sent:* Friday, May 13, 2016 8:55 AM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord > > Even if the extension cord was coiled, paired conductors would > effectively cancel the coil effect > > neal > > No > > -- Art Z. > > Sent from my phone so please excuse typos and brevity. > > On May 13, 2016 8:30 AM, "Rene" > wrote: > > Was the wire coiled? > > Rene' > > 801-721-6080 > > Folks, > > This isn't aero but it is electric so I figure someone here will have > an opinion. When I am away from home, I use an extension cord to > charge my electric car. Tonight, I noticed that the wire (not the > connectors) was warm to the touch when I unplugged the car. The warmth > surprised me. Here are the specs: > > * 120V AC > * charger draws 12A > * 16 AWG conductors in the extension cord > * cord is 25 feet long > * cord was advertised as suitable for up to 13A > > I'm inclined to replace the cord with one with 14 AWG conductors. Yes? > > Thanks, > > -- Art Z. > On 5/13/2016 10:26 AM, Rene wrote: > > First hand experiencethe heat build up can go out of control. Melted > both the cable and a plastic spool it was on. Was on a camper and the > wire did not feel warm normally but left it on the spool because it > was a short distance.spool and wire became one. Needed new spool > and wire.. > > Rene' > > 801-721-6080 > > *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *Neal George > *Sent:* Friday, May 13, 2016 8:55 AM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord > > Even if the extension cord was coiled, paired conductors would > effectively cancel the coil effect > > neal > > No > > -- Art Z. > > Sent from my phone so please excuse typos and brevity. > > On May 13, 2016 8:30 AM, "Rene" > wrote: > > Was the wire coiled? > > Rene' > > 801-721-6080 > > Folks, > > This isn't aero but it is electric so I figure someone here will have > an opinion. When I am away from home, I use an extension cord to > charge my electric car. Tonight, I noticed that the wire (not the > connectors) was warm to the touch when I unplugged the car. The warmth > surprised me. Here are the specs: > > * 120V AC > * charger draws 12A > * 16 AWG conductors in the extension cord > * cord is 25 feet long > * cord was advertised as suitable for up to 13A > > I'm inclined to replace the cord with one with 14 AWG conductors. Yes? > > Thanks, > > -- Art Z. > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:54:12 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord From: Charlie England Hi Art, I'd assume that if you went to the trouble to buy or build an electric car, you have at least some focus on efficiency. So here's something to consider. According to one convenient online calculator, http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html?material=copper&wiresize=13.17&voltage=120&phase=ac&noofconductor=1&distance=25&distanceunit=feet&eres=12&x=47&y=17 16 awg 25 ft 120vac 12A will have ~2.4 volts of drop at the load. That means you're using 2.4*12=28.8 watts to heat the wire (likely a bit more than that). So, roughly the equivalent of plugging in a small soldering iron & leaving it running while the car charges. Same load with 12 awg: 0.95v drop * 12 = 11.4 watts lost to the wire. To keep it Aeroelectric related, 'the book' has formulas to do the calcs. Charlie On 5/13/2016 6:20 AM, bob noffs wrote: > that is at the max for the cord but not over the rating.a few years > ago i made up some extension cords for 1500 watt heaters and used 12 > ga. plenty of margin there. i guess i would feel better with 12ga. > sounds like a one and done purchase. > funny the connectors aren't warm. > bob noffs > > On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 3:49 AM, Art Zemon > wrote: > > Folks, > > This isn't aero but it is electric so I figure someone here will > have an opinion. When I am away from home, I use an extension cord > to charge my electric car. Tonight, I noticed that the wire (not > the connectors) was warm to the touch when I unplugged the car. > The warmth surprised me. Here are the specs: > > * 120V AC > * charger draws 12A > * 16 AWG conductors in the extension cord > * cord is 25 feet long > * cord was advertised as suitable for up to 13A > > I'm inclined to replace the cord with one with 14 AWG conductors. Yes? > > Thanks, > -- Art Z. > > -- > http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ > > /"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for > myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel/ > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:49:17 AM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: finding the correct crimper Just to add to this thread, it took some digging but I think I finally pinpointed the correct tool for removing these terminals: "12093078 terminal removal tool." I have one ordered from Zack Electronics. On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 11:32 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 02:26 PM 5/9/2016, you wrote: > > The new crimper worked perfectly, first time. Data on crimper: Purchased > from crimpsupply.com, SKU 37A11001, Metri-Pack/56 Series/Pack-Con > Crimping Tool #6285847. This crimper does not have a slot for the > insulation crimp, but one of my other crimpers does. I probably got a > little aggressive with the insulation crimp, will correct that on futures .. > The main thing is that the wire crimp worked perfectly, just as it should , > giving a strong, tight good looking crimp. Pictures attached.=C3=82 > > > Good show! > > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:41:28 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord From: Ed Gilroy I used the following table from the J1772 specifications to build my homemade extension cord for my electric car: Electrical =A2 Level 1: 14 AWG - 16A =A2 Level 2: 10 AWG - 30A =A2 Level 2: 8 AWG - 31 to 74A =A2 Level 2: 6 AWG - 75 to 99A I used 10 gauge, it is always just warm to the touch after a few hours of charging, but not anything I would call hot. I pull 12A on high and 8A on low at 120V. On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 1:55 PM, Charlie England wrote: > Hi Art, > > I'd assume that if you went to the trouble to buy or build an electric > car, you have at least some focus on efficiency. So here's something to > consider. According to one convenient online calculator, > > http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html?material=copper& wiresize=13.17&voltage=120&phase=ac&noofconductor=1&distance=25&d istanceunit=feet&eres=12&x=47&y=17 > > 16 awg 25 ft 120vac 12A will have ~2.4 volts of drop at the load. That > means you're using 2.4*12=28.8 watts to heat the wire (likely a bit mor e > than that). So, roughly the equivalent of plugging in a small soldering > iron & leaving it running while the car charges. > > Same load with 12 awg: 0.95v drop * 12 = 11.4 watts lost to the wire. > > To keep it Aeroelectric related, 'the book' has formulas to do the calcs. > > Charlie > > On 5/13/2016 6:20 AM, bob noffs wrote: > > that is at the max for the cord but not over the rating.a few years ago i > made up some extension cords for 1500 watt heaters and used 12 ga. plenty > of margin there. i guess i would feel better with 12ga. sounds like a one > and done purchase. > funny the connectors aren't warm. > bob noffs > > On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 3:49 AM, Art Zemon wrote: > >> Folks, >> >> This isn't aero but it is electric so I figure someone here will have an >> opinion. When I am away from home, I use an extension cord to charge my >> electric car. Tonight, I noticed that the wire (not the connectors) was >> warm to the touch when I unplugged the car. The warmth surprised me. Her e >> are the specs: >> >> - 120V AC >> - charger draws 12A >> - 16 AWG conductors in the extension cord >> - cord is 25 feet long >> - cord was advertised as suitable for up to 13A >> >> I'm inclined to replace the cord with one with 14 AWG conductors. Yes? >> >> Thanks, >> -- Art Z. >> >> -- >> http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ >> >> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, >> what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* >> > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:43 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord At 09:55 AM 5/13/2016, you wrote: >Even if the extension cord was coiled, paired >conductors would effectively cancel the coil effect=85 You're thinking of magnetic fields around the pair, not temperature rise. A couple years ago, I was working a summer fun-fair in a small town south of Wichita with my son who has a shaved ice business. The curbside outlet that supplied power to the trailer was only about 20' away . . . so I only un-rolled about 30' of 12AWG cord off a stowage reel and hooked up the trailer. The total load for the trailer was 16A with the A/C running. Normally, the 12AWG would get just warm to the touch at that load. A few hours into the event, the folks working the booth next to us raised the red flag on smoke rising from the cord reel. I powered down and unrolled the cord. The deepest 25 feet of cordage was badly melted and starting to char in some areas. The problem was obvious . . . and SHOULD have been considered by a veteran wire-stringer . . . but we trashed part of the cord that was MOST insulated from outside air. Cut it off, replaced the connector and was back in business about 15 minutes later . . . with remaining cord all laid out on the ground so it could cool off. Remember, 20 amps won't burn a 22AWG copper wire http://tinyurl.com/6qr72fr in fact, it doesn't even put Tefzel insulation at risk . . . in the open air. But bundle it up in any manner that reduces ability to reject heat and . . . Emacs! Here's a bundle of wires that are insulated with the slicone/ fiberglas sleeving. The bundle has two 10AWG conductors that MIGHT get loaded to 60A under some conditions. Out in the open air, no sweat . . . or should I say no burn? I set up a lab test for the boss to deduce the INCREASE in temperature rise for having been bundled. Emacs! Wire under the sleeve was 80 to 115C hotter than the single strand in open air. It was hot enough on the outside of the fiberglas to discolor nylon tie-wraps Emacs! and the Tefzel insulation began to loose its bond at the edges of the wrap Emacs! The copper inside was un-affected. As it turns out, nobody ever installed ALL of the accessories that would have put the airplane at risk. But it was more trouble on the drawings to change the optional equipment list. Only one drawing had to be changed to upsize the wire. So a mandatory service bulletin was issued against all aircraft with that installation and the factory pushed the upgrade costs off onto the field . . . to fix an non-issue. Sigh . . . Anyhow, if you can hold your 14AWG cord in your hand . . . AND no part of it is deprived of cooling air . . . then the wire is not at risk. The weakest link in that system is the connectors. I've seen several UL approved 15A rated wall outlets fail at 12A loads. Two in a row in a house I was living in, one in a house we investigated for a fire of electrical origins . . . right under where a 115v window a/c had been installed. The advice for upsizing is well made . . . to which would suggest more robust connectors perhaps of the twist-lock variety. [] Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:28:48 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Off list contact From: Richard Girard Bob, I don't have a correct email for you anymore. Would you please contact me off list? Rick Girard -- =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:49:15 PM PST US From: Bill Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Off list contact Below is the one Bob uses to communicate with us on this list. Is it the same, or different from your "incorrect" one? nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 3:24 PM, Richard Girard wrote : > Bob, I don't have a correct email for you anymore. Would you please > contact me off list? > > Rick Girard > > -- > =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light. =9D Groucho Marx > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:47 PM PST US From: Neal George Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord Yeah, short, incomplete response. I know better. Mea Culpa. (did I say that correctly?) I assumed the resistive thermal rise and lack of cooling from a pile of cabl e were a given. I have foggy memories of stories from an ancient electrical instructor, poss ibly unfounded, of inexperienced electricians separating A/C phases in condu it resulting in catastrophic thermal failure... I'm sorry sir, I'll be quiet. :) Neal Sent from my iPhone > On May 13, 2016, at 4:17 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > At 09:55 AM 5/13/2016, you wrote: >> Even if the extension cord was coiled, paired conductors would effectivel y cancel the coil effect=A1=AD > > You're thinking of magnetic fields around the pair, not temperature ris e. > Bob . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.