---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 05/27/16: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:50 AM - Switchology and safety, was Infinity Aero Grip and Starter Switch (GLEN MATEJCEK) 2. 01:49 PM - lengthening wires (Ken Ryan) 3. 02:09 PM - Re: lengthening wires (William Hunter) 4. 02:38 PM - Re: lengthening wires (Ken Ryan) 5. 02:44 PM - Re: lengthening wires (B Tomm) 6. 02:46 PM - Re: lengthening wires (Robert Borger) 7. 03:03 PM - Re: lengthening wires (Ken Ryan) 8. 03:04 PM - Steinair web site (JOHN TIPTON) 9. 03:26 PM - Re: Switchology and safety, was Infinity Aero Grip and Starter Switch (Stuart Hutchison) 10. 03:50 PM - Re: Steinair web site (William Hunter) 11. 06:47 PM - Re: lengthening wires (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 07:12 PM - Re: lengthening wires (Ken Ryan) 13. 07:13 PM - Re: lengthening wires (Ken Ryan) 14. 07:37 PM - Re: lengthening wires (Art Zemon) 15. 09:59 PM - Re: lengthening wires (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:12 AM PST US From: GLEN MATEJCEK Subject: AeroElectric-List: Switchology and safety, was Infinity Aero Grip and Starter Switch Switchology and safety, was Infinity Aero Grip and Starter Switch Some thoughts on switchology- My once a flight switches (IGN, starter, batteries, lights, pitot heat) are on the right edge on my panel (tandem cockpit), my frequently used and Oh Crap switches (fuel pump, flaps, trim master, A/P arm, OVM reset) are on the left edge of the panel, conveniently close to the throttle. The rear stick has trim and PTT switches, the front stick has trim, PTT, EFIS display advance, and A/P disconnect. One of the Oh Crap switches is a progressive that controls trim function. Up has both stick's trim functions live, center interrupts the rear stick trim switches ground, and down interrupts both sticks trim switches ground paths. This way, I can pre -emptively kill the trim function for the rear seat should I have a non-savvy passenger as well as killing the whole system if I have a trim runaway. FWIW, YMMV, ETC.... ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:49:26 PM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: AeroElectric-List: lengthening wires I am having second thoughts about the future nightmare I may have created by choosing screw terminal switches with their tiny screws and washers for my panel. I have already completed most of the wiring with ring terminal ends, and there is not enough slack to just cut them off and replace them with fast on terminals. I don't consider completely re-doing all the wiring to be a very attractive option. My options seem to be: 1. just stick with what I have, ring terminals, screw connections to switches 2. cut off the terminals, butt splice on enough wire to allow for re-doing the ends with fast on terminals 3. come up with some other way of extending the wires, leaving the ring terminals intact, replacing the butt splice with some other type of connection to extend the wires If I were to stick with what I have, the one good thing is that I will have better access to the back side of the panel than most have. But without doubt if I were doing it over I would use fast ons. So I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to introduce butt splices to all the wires for the convenience of fast on terminals? My instincts are telling me to just go with what I have, as many airplanes have flown with switches that use screw terminals. But I sure wish that I had just used fast ons to begin with. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:09:22 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: lengthening wires From: William Hunter The screw in terminals arr what. is provided with MIL spec switches. If you have a EFIS screen then just remove the screen and then you will have a big hole to reach through... that is my strategy. Bill Hunter On May 27, 2016 1:56 PM, "Ken Ryan" wrote: I am having second thoughts about the future nightmare I may have created by choosing screw terminal switches with their tiny screws and washers for my panel. I have already completed most of the wiring with ring terminal ends, and there is not enough slack to just cut them off and replace them with fast on terminals. I don't consider completely re-doing all the wiring to be a very attractive option. My options seem to be: 1. just stick with what I have, ring terminals, screw connections to switches 2. cut off the terminals, butt splice on enough wire to allow for re-doing the ends with fast on terminals 3. come up with some other way of extending the wires, leaving the ring terminals intact, replacing the butt splice with some other type of connection to extend the wires If I were to stick with what I have, the one good thing is that I will have better access to the back side of the panel than most have. But without doubt if I were doing it over I would use fast ons. So I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to introduce butt splices to all the wires for the convenience of fast on terminals? My instincts are telling me to just go with what I have, as many airplanes have flown with switches that use screw terminals. But I sure wish that I had just used fast ons to begin with. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:38:25 PM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: lengthening wires Good point. On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 1:07 PM, William Hunter wrote: > The screw in terminals arr what. is provided with MIL spec switches. > > If you have a EFIS screen then just remove the screen and then you will > have a big hole to reach through... that is my strategy. > > Bill Hunter > On May 27, 2016 1:56 PM, "Ken Ryan" wrote: > > I am having second thoughts about the future nightmare I may have created > by choosing screw terminal switches with their tiny screws and washers for > my panel. > > I have already completed most of the wiring with ring terminal ends, and > there is not enough slack to just cut them off and replace them with fast > on terminals. > > I don't consider completely re-doing all the wiring to be a very > attractive option. > > My options seem to be: > > 1. just stick with what I have, ring terminals, screw connections to > switches > > 2. cut off the terminals, butt splice on enough wire to allow for re-doing > the ends with fast on terminals > > 3. come up with some other way of extending the wires, leaving the ring > terminals intact, replacing the butt splice with some other type of > connection to extend the wires > > If I were to stick with what I have, the one good thing is that I will > have better access to the back side of the panel than most have. But > without doubt if I were doing it over I would use fast ons. So I'm trying > to decide if it's worth it to introduce butt splices to all the wires for > the convenience of fast on terminals? > > My instincts are telling me to just go with what I have, as many airplanes > have flown with switches that use screw terminals. But I sure wish that I > had just used fast ons to begin with. > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:44:19 PM PST US From: "B Tomm" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: lengthening wires My vote would be to stay with what you've got. If you need to replace a terminal in the future, you will have to splice or slightly reroute the wire for more length. It is advisable to leave a little service loop (large radius bend) from the wire loom to the terminal so the terminal can be cut off several times and still have enough wire length without making the wire so tight that there is strain at the terminal. My .00 cents worth. Bevan _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ryan Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 1:47 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: lengthening wires I am having second thoughts about the future nightmare I may have created by choosing screw terminal switches with their tiny screws and washers for my panel. I have already completed most of the wiring with ring terminal ends, and there is not enough slack to just cut them off and replace them with fast on terminals. I don't consider completely re-doing all the wiring to be a very attractive option. My options seem to be: 1. just stick with what I have, ring terminals, screw connections to switches 2. cut off the terminals, butt splice on enough wire to allow for re-doing the ends with fast on terminals 3. come up with some other way of extending the wires, leaving the ring terminals intact, replacing the butt splice with some other type of connection to extend the wires If I were to stick with what I have, the one good thing is that I will have better access to the back side of the panel than most have. But without doubt if I were doing it over I would use fast ons. So I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to introduce butt splices to all the wires for the convenience of fast on terminals? My instincts are telling me to just go with what I have, as many airplanes have flown with switches that use screw terminals. But I sure wish that I had just used fast ons to begin with. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:46:59 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: lengthening wires From: Robert Borger Ken, Personally, I=99d stick with the screw and ring since that=99s how you are set up. They are a bit of a PITA to fiddly with but once in and with no strain on the wire they will be fine. Should you choose to go to the fast-on route you can extend wires neatly using D-Sub pins & sockets. Use the machined/crimp D-Subs (http://www.bandc.aero/d-subpin.aspx & http://www.bandc.aero/d-subsocket.aspx ). Cut your wire, crimp a plug onto the wire. Crimp a socket onto your extension wire. Join and cover with shrink tube and you have a nice, neat, extended wire. I hope this helps. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On May 27, 2016, at 3:46 PM, Ken Ryan wrote: I am having second thoughts about the future nightmare I may have created by choosing screw terminal switches with their tiny screws and washers for my panel. I have already completed most of the wiring with ring terminal ends, and there is not enough slack to just cut them off and replace them with fast on terminals. I don't consider completely re-doing all the wiring to be a very attractive option. My options seem to be: 1. just stick with what I have, ring terminals, screw connections to switches 2. cut off the terminals, butt splice on enough wire to allow for re-doing the ends with fast on terminals 3. come up with some other way of extending the wires, leaving the ring terminals intact, replacing the butt splice with some other type of connection to extend the wires If I were to stick with what I have, the one good thing is that I will have better access to the back side of the panel than most have. But without doubt if I were doing it over I would use fast ons. So I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to introduce butt splices to all the wires for the convenience of fast on terminals? My instincts are telling me to just go with what I have, as many airplanes have flown with switches that use screw terminals. But I sure wish that I had just used fast ons to begin with. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:03:49 PM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: lengthening wires Thanks guys. So far it's unanimous, stick with what I've got. Next airplane I will use fast ons. Live and learn. On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 1:45 PM, Robert Borger wrote: > Ken, > > Personally, I=99d stick with the screw and ring since that=99 s how you are set > up. They are a bit of a PITA to fiddly with but once in and with no stra in > on the wire they will be fine. > > Should you choose to go to the fast-on route you can extend wires neatly > using D-Sub pins & sockets. Use the machined/crimp D-Subs ( > http://www.bandc.aero/d-subpin.aspx & > http://www.bandc.aero/d-subsocket.aspx). Cut your wire, crimp a plug > onto the wire. Crimp a socket onto your extension wire. Join and cover > with shrink tube and you have a nice, neat, extended wire. > > I hope this helps. > > Blue skies & tailwinds, > Bob Borger > Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). > Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP > 3705 Lynchburg Dr. > Corinth, TX 76208-5331 > Cel: 817-992-1117 > rlborger@mac.com > > On May 27, 2016, at 3:46 PM, Ken Ryan wrote: > > I am having second thoughts about the future nightmare I may have created > by choosing screw terminal switches with their tiny screws and washers fo r > my panel. > > I have already completed most of the wiring with ring terminal ends, and > there is not enough slack to just cut them off and replace them with fast > on terminals. > > I don't consider completely re-doing all the wiring to be a very > attractive option. > > My options seem to be: > > 1. just stick with what I have, ring terminals, screw connections to > switches > > 2. cut off the terminals, butt splice on enough wire to allow for re-doin g > the ends with fast on terminals > > 3. come up with some other way of extending the wires, leaving the ring > terminals intact, replacing the butt splice with some other type of > connection to extend the wires > > If I were to stick with what I have, the one good thing is that I will > have better access to the back side of the panel than most have. But > without doubt if I were doing it over I would use fast ons. So I'm trying > to decide if it's worth it to introduce butt splices to all the wires for > the convenience of fast on terminals? > > My instincts are telling me to just go with what I have, as many airplane s > have flown with switches that use screw terminals. But I sure wish that I > had just used fast ons to begin with. > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:04:23 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Steinair web site From: "JOHN TIPTON" Hi Guys -- is it me, or does anyone else find the new 'steinair' web site a pain to navigate -- Regards: John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456634#456634 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:26:43 PM PST US From: Stuart Hutchison Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switchology and safety, was Infinity Aero Grip and Starter Switch More food for thought. I have identical Infinity grips with 25pin D-sub connectors front and back in my tandem, so that I can swap the sticks if a stick switch happens to fail. I also fabricated an isolation circuit with two relays on vero board, controlled from small locking toggle switches on the CB panel. The front stick functions are wired directly to the output side of the vero board circuit. The rear stick functions can only reach the output side of the vero board if the relays are closed, bridging some broken copper tracks on the board. I now have the means to provide full functionality to the rear stick, trim only or nothing at all via two small switches up front. > On 27 May 2016, at 23:47, GLEN MATEJCEK wrote: > > Switchology and safety, was Infinity Aero Grip and Starter Switch > > Some thoughts on switchology- > > My once a flight switches (IGN, starter, batteries, lights, pitot heat) are on the right edge on my panel (tandem cockpit), my frequently used and Oh Crap switches (fuel pump, flaps, trim master, A/P arm, OVM reset) are on the left edge of the panel, conveniently close to the throttle. The rear stick has trim and PTT switches, the front stick has trim, PTT, EFIS display advance, and A/P disconnect. One of the Oh Crap switches is a progressive that controls trim function. Up has both stick's trim functions live, center interrupts the rear stick trim switches ground, and down interrupts both sticks trim switches ground paths. This way, I can pre-emptively kill the trim function for the rear seat should I have a non-savvy passenger as well as killing the whole system if I have a trim runaway. > > FWIW, YMMV, ETC.... ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:50:37 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Steinair web site From: William Hunter My guess is that Stein (of Steinair) will chime in soon... Bill Hunter On May 27, 2016 3:09 PM, "JOHN TIPTON" wrote: > jmtipton@btopenworld.com> > > Hi Guys -- is it me, or does anyone else find the new 'steinair' web site > a pain to navigate -- Regards: John > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456634#456634 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:37 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: lengthening wires >Should you choose to go to the fast-on route you >can extend wires neatly using D-Sub pins & >sockets.=C2 Use the machined/crimp D-Subs pine. >Cut your wire, crimp a plug onto the >wire.=C2 Crimp a socket onto your extension >wire.=C2 Join and cover with shrink tube and you >have a nice, neat, extended wire. The d-sub pins under shrink are fine for low current, 'service splices' . . . not unlike the legacy knife splices. But for permanent extensions of wires up to an including the 10A class (18AWG) I'd recommend the Po'Boy's solder sleeve technique to extend the leads. http://tinyurl.com/dgg2nb Much more robust both mechanically and electrically . . . Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:05 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: lengthening wires From: Ken Ryan Thanks for that Bob. I like it. You have now given me more food for thought. I think the tiny screws and washers would be very frustrating to work with. Sent from my Android. Sorry Steve. On May 27, 2016 17:54, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > Should you choose to go to the fast-on route you can extend wires neatly > using D-Sub pins & sockets.=C3=82 Use the machined/crimp D-Subs pine. Cu t your > wire, crimp a plug onto the wire.=C3=82 Crimp a socket onto your extensi on > wire.=C3=82 Join and cover with shrink tube and you have a nice, neat, e xtended > wire. > > > The d-sub pins under shrink are fine for > low current, 'service splices' . . . not > unlike the legacy knife splices. But for > permanent extensions of wires up to an > including the 10A class (18AWG) I'd > recommend the Po'Boy's solder sleeve > technique to extend the leads. > > http://tinyurl.com/dgg2nb > > Much more robust both mechanically and > electrically . . . > > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:59 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: lengthening wires From: Ken Ryan Question Bob ... for #20 wires would you choose the D-sub method or the poor boy's splice? Sent from my Android. Sorry Steve. On May 27, 2016 18:10, "Ken Ryan" wrote: > Thanks for that Bob. I like it. You have now given me more food for > thought. I think the tiny screws and washers would be very frustrating to > work with. > > Sent from my Android. Sorry Steve. > On May 27, 2016 17:54, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" < > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > >> Should you choose to go to the fast-on route you can extend wires neatly >> using D-Sub pins & sockets.=C3=82 Use the machined/crimp D-Subs pine. C ut your >> wire, crimp a plug onto the wire.=C3=82 Crimp a socket onto your extens ion >> wire.=C3=82 Join and cover with shrink tube and you have a nice, neat, extended >> wire. >> >> >> The d-sub pins under shrink are fine for >> low current, 'service splices' . . . not >> unlike the legacy knife splices. But for >> permanent extensions of wires up to an >> including the 10A class (18AWG) I'd >> recommend the Po'Boy's solder sleeve >> technique to extend the leads. >> >> http://tinyurl.com/dgg2nb >> >> Much more robust both mechanically and >> electrically . . . >> >> >> Bob . . . >> > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:42 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: lengthening wires From: Art Zemon Ken, I tried Bob's Po'Boy's solder sleeve and found it very easy to do. My first one took just a couple of minutes, and that was with all the fooling around because it was my first time. I think I could do another in about 60 seconds. Give it a try with a piece of scrap wire. -- Art Z. On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 10:10 PM, Ken Ryan wrote: > Thanks for that Bob. I like it. You have now given me more food for > thought. I think the tiny screws and washers would be very frustrating to > work with. > > Sent from my Android. Sorry Steve. > On May 27, 2016 17:54, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" < > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > >> Should you choose to go to the fast-on route you can extend wires neatly >> using D-Sub pins & sockets.=C3=82 Use the machined/crimp D-Subs pine. C ut your >> wire, crimp a plug onto the wire.=C3=82 Crimp a socket onto your extens ion >> wire.=C3=82 Join and cover with shrink tube and you have a nice, neat, extended >> wire. >> >> >> The d-sub pins under shrink are fine for >> low current, 'service splices' . . . not >> unlike the legacy knife splices. But for >> permanent extensions of wires up to an >> including the 10A class (18AWG) I'd >> recommend the Po'Boy's solder sleeve >> technique to extend the leads. >> >> http://tinyurl.com/dgg2nb >> >> Much more robust both mechanically and >> electrically . . . >> >> >> Bob . . . >> > -- http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:59:55 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: lengthening wires At 09:12 PM 5/27/2016, you wrote: >Question Bob ... for #20 wires would you choose the D-sub method or >the poor boy's splice? The d-subs under shrink were a more compact alternative to the knife spice as a field service disconnect . . . not so much as a permanent splice. Further, a mated pair of pins is MUCH more expensive than the faux solder sleeve and subject to disconnect if placed in too much tension. 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