AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sat 05/28/16


Total Messages Posted: 7



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:40 AM - lengthening wires (Owen Baker)
     2. 05:56 AM - Re: lengthening wires (Justin Jones)
     3. 06:35 AM - Re: lengthening wires (William Hunter)
     4. 07:23 AM - Re: lengthening wires (ARGOLDMAN@aol.com)
     5. 08:38 AM - Re: lengthening wires (Robert Borger)
     6. 02:34 PM - Re: lengthening wires (Owen Baker)
     7. 08:56 PM - Re: lengthening wires (Owen Baker)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:40:53 AM PST US
    From: "Owen Baker " <bakerocb@cox.net>
    Subject: lengthening wires
    5/28/2016 Ken Ryan wrote: =9CI sure wish that I had just used fast ons to begin with.=9D Hello Ken, Here is another solution: Convert your ring terminals to a faston type male tab with an adapter. The adapter gets fastened (intended permanently) onto the switch using the screw and you then have a male faston available to connect to with a female faston crimped onto the end of the wire. The adapters come in both straight and 90 degree versions. Poke around a bit on the internet, I bet that you can find suitable adapters. Here is one result. https://www.google.com/search?q=ring+terminal+to+male+tab&rlz=1C1AFAB _en___US560&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=622&tbm=isch&imgil=l2SoyWV-j8TU FM%253A%253Brpzrfe0opjUP_M%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.pegasusautor acing.com%25252Fproductdetails.asp%25253FRecID%2525253D12915&source=iu& pf=m&fir=l2SoyWV-j8TUFM%253A%252Crpzrfe0opjUP_M%252C_&usg=__GQIeu93 gvLfh21C-3IbiB5J4zW8%3D&ved=0ahUKEwj21Z7c0_zMAhWE5oMKHXIkDAcQyjcINg&ei= Wn9JV_bAMoTNjwTyyLA4#imgrc=l2SoyWV-j8TUFM%3A OC Time: 01:49:26 PM PST US From: Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.com> Subject: AeroElectric-List: lengthening wires I am having second thoughts about the future nightmare I may have created by choosing screw terminal switches with their tiny screws and washers for my panel. I have already completed most of the wiring with ring terminal ends, and there is not enough slack to just cut them off and replace them with fast on terminals. I don't consider completely re-doing all the wiring to be a very attractive option. My options seem to be: 1. just stick with what I have, ring terminals, screw connections to switches 2. cut off the terminals, butt splice on enough wire to allow for re-doing the ends with fast on terminals 3. come up with some other way of extending the wires, leaving the ring terminals intact, replacing the butt splice with some other type of connection to extend the wires If I were to stick with what I have, the one good thing is that I will have better access to the back side of the panel than most have. But without doubt if I were doing it over I would use fast ons. So I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to introduce butt splices to all the wires for the convenience of fast on terminals? My instincts are telling me to just go with what I have, as many airplanes have flown with switches that use screw terminals. But I sure wish that I had just used fast ons to begin with.


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:56:41 AM PST US
    From: Justin Jones <jmjones2000@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: lengthening wires
    Be careful not to adopt the government's strategy here. "If it's not broken , fix it until it is". If it's working for you, keep letting it work for you until it breaks. Then f ix it. Justin > On May 27, 2016, at 14:02, Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.com> wrote: > > Thanks guys. So far it's unanimous, stick with what I've got. Next airplan e I will use fast ons. Live and learn. > >> On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 1:45 PM, Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com> wrote: >> Ken, >> >> Personally, I=99d stick with the screw and ring since that=99 s how you are set up. They are a bit of a PITA to fiddly with but once in a nd with no strain on the wire they will be fine. >> >> Should you choose to go to the fast-on route you can extend wires neatly u sing D-Sub pins & sockets. Use the machined/crimp D-Subs (http://www.bandc. aero/d-subpin.aspx & http://www.bandc.aero/d-subsocket.aspx). Cut your wire , crimp a plug onto the wire. Crimp a socket onto your extension wire. Joi n and cover with shrink tube and you have a nice, neat, extended wire. >> >> I hope this helps. >> >> Blue skies & tailwinds, >> Bob Borger >> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). >> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP >> 3705 Lynchburg Dr. >> Corinth, TX 76208-5331 >> Cel: 817-992-1117 >> rlborger@mac.com >> >> On May 27, 2016, at 3:46 PM, Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I am having second thoughts about the future nightmare I may have created by choosing screw terminal switches with their tiny screws and washers for m y panel. >> >> I have already completed most of the wiring with ring terminal ends, and t here is not enough slack to just cut them off and replace them with fast on t erminals. >> >> I don't consider completely re-doing all the wiring to be a very attracti ve option. >> >> My options seem to be: >> >> 1. just stick with what I have, ring terminals, screw connections to swit ches >> >> 2. cut off the terminals, butt splice on enough wire to allow for re-doin g the ends with fast on terminals >> >> 3. come up with some other way of extending the wires, leaving the ring t erminals intact, replacing the butt splice with some other type of connectio n to extend the wires >> >> If I were to stick with what I have, the one good thing is that I will ha ve better access to the back side of the panel than most have. But without d oubt if I were doing it over I would use fast ons. So I'm trying to decide i f it's worth it to introduce butt splices to all the wires for the convenien ce of fast on terminals? >> >> My instincts are telling me to just go with what I have, as many airplane s have flown with switches that use screw terminals. But I sure wish that I h ad just used fast ons to begin with. >


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:35:13 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: lengthening wires
    From: William Hunter <billhuntersemail@gmail.com>
    Bob Borger, Cleaver idea... use the D sub pins without the connector housing to splice individual wires... cool idea. Bill Hunter On May 28, 2016 06:03, "Justin Jones" <jmjones2000@mindspring.com> wrote: > Be careful not to adopt the government's strategy here. "If it's not > broken, fix it until it is". > > If it's working for you, keep letting it work for you until it breaks. > Then fix it. > > Justin > > > On May 27, 2016, at 14:02, Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.com> wrote: > > Thanks guys. So far it's unanimous, stick with what I've got. Next > airplane I will use fast ons. Live and learn. > > On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 1:45 PM, Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com> wrote: > >> Ken, >> >> Personally, I=99d stick with the screw and ring since that =99s how you are >> set up. They are a bit of a PITA to fiddly with but once in and with no >> strain on the wire they will be fine. >> >> Should you choose to go to the fast-on route you can extend wires neatly >> using D-Sub pins & sockets. Use the machined/crimp D-Subs ( >> http://www.bandc.aero/d-subpin.aspx & >> http://www.bandc.aero/d-subsocket.aspx). Cut your wire, crimp a plug >> onto the wire. Crimp a socket onto your extension wire. Join and cover >> with shrink tube and you have a nice, neat, extended wire. >> >> I hope this helps. >> >> Blue skies & tailwinds, >> Bob Borger >> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). >> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP >> 3705 Lynchburg Dr. >> Corinth, TX 76208-5331 >> Cel: 817-992-1117 >> rlborger@mac.com >> >> On May 27, 2016, at 3:46 PM, Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I am having second thoughts about the future nightmare I may have create d >> by choosing screw terminal switches with their tiny screws and washers f or >> my panel. >> >> I have already completed most of the wiring with ring terminal ends, and >> there is not enough slack to just cut them off and replace them with fas t >> on terminals. >> >> I don't consider completely re-doing all the wiring to be a very >> attractive option. >> >> My options seem to be: >> >> 1. just stick with what I have, ring terminals, screw connections to >> switches >> >> 2. cut off the terminals, butt splice on enough wire to allow for >> re-doing the ends with fast on terminals >> >> 3. come up with some other way of extending the wires, leaving the ring >> terminals intact, replacing the butt splice with some other type of >> connection to extend the wires >> >> If I were to stick with what I have, the one good thing is that I will >> have better access to the back side of the panel than most have. But >> without doubt if I were doing it over I would use fast ons. So I'm tryin g >> to decide if it's worth it to introduce butt splices to all the wires fo r >> the convenience of fast on terminals? >> >> My instincts are telling me to just go with what I have, as many >> airplanes have flown with switches that use screw terminals. But I sure >> wish that I had just used fast ons to begin with. >> >> >


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:23:41 AM PST US
    From: ARGOLDMAN@aol.com
    Subject: Re: lengthening wires
    If you are going to do this, use the non-flexible heatshrink tubing. What about just soldering the wires (20 ga and larger) Rich In a message dated 5/28/2016 8:35:56 A.M. Central Daylight Time, billhuntersemail@gmail.com writes: Bob Borger, Cleaver idea... use the D sub pins without the connector housing to splic e individual wires... cool idea. Bill Hunter On May 28, 2016 06:03, "Justin Jones" <_jmjones2000@mindspring.com_ (mailto:jmjones2000@mindspring.com) > wrote: Be careful not to adopt the government's strategy here. "If it's not broken, fix it until it is". If it's working for you, keep letting it work for you until it breaks. Then fix it. Justin On May 27, 2016, at 14:02, Ken Ryan <_keninalaska@gmail.com_ (mailto:keninalaska@gmail.com) > wrote: Thanks guys. So far it's unanimous, stick with what I've got. Next airplane I will use fast ons. Live and learn. On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 1:45 PM, Robert Borger <_rlborger@mac.com_ (mailto:rlborger@mac.com) > wrote: Ken, Personally, I=99d stick with the screw and ring since that=99s how you are set up. They are a bit of a PITA to fiddly with but once in and with no strain on the wire they will be fine. Should you choose to go to the fast-on route you can extend wires neatly using D-Sub pins & sockets. Use the machined/crimp D-Subs (http://www.bandc.aero/d-subpin.aspx & http://www.bandc.aero/d-subsocket.a spx). Cut your wire, crimp a plug onto the wire. Crimp a socket onto your extension wir e. Join and cover with shrink tube and you have a nice, neat, extended wire. I hope this helps. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: _817-992-1117_ (tel:817-992-1117) _rlborger@mac.com_ (mailto:rlborger@mac.com) On May 27, 2016, at 3:46 PM, Ken Ryan <_keninalaska@gmail.com_ (mailto:keninalaska@gmail.com) > wrote: I am having second thoughts about the future nightmare I may have created by choosing screw terminal switches with their tiny screws and washers fo r my panel. I have already completed most of the wiring with ring terminal ends, and there is not enough slack to just cut them off and replace them with fast on terminals. I don't consider completely re-doing all the wiring to be a very attractive option. My options seem to be: 1. just stick with what I have, ring terminals, screw connections to switches 2. cut off the terminals, butt splice on enough wire to allow for re-doin g the ends with fast on terminals 3. come up with some other way of extending the wires, leaving the ring terminals intact, replacing the butt splice with some other type of connection to extend the wires If I were to stick with what I have, the one good thing is that I will have better access to the back side of the panel than most have. But with out doubt if I were doing it over I would use fast ons. So I'm trying to deci de if it's worth it to introduce butt splices to all the wires for the convenience of fast on terminals? My instincts are telling me to just go with what I have, as many airplane s have flown with switches that use screw terminals. But I sure wish that I had just used fast ons to begin with.


    Message 5


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    Time: 08:38:26 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: lengthening wires
    From: Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com>
    Bill, Works great as long as the wire is well supported and there=99s no strain or tension. It=99s a very neat solution that doesn=99t make a big knot like an in-line crimp splice. Solder sleeves also work well but I find them a bit fussier to make a nice neat join. They are the way to go for unsupported wire or wire were there is significant tension on the wire. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On May 28, 2016, at 8:33 AM, William Hunter <billhuntersemail@gmail.com> wrote: Bob Borger, Cleaver idea... use the D sub pins without the connector housing to splice individual wires... cool idea. Bill Hunter


    Message 6


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    Time: 02:34:12 PM PST US
    From: "Owen Baker " <bakerocb@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: lengthening wires
    5/28/2016 Hello Ken, Thanks for the quick response, but your comments puzzle me. Perhaps you don=99t understand the adapter that I propose and how it is used. You wrote: 1) =9C.... make my perceived problem worse by doubling the number of tiny screws and tiny washers located behind the panel.=9D a) The adapter that I propose is nothing more than a small (usually flat)** piece of metal with a hole in one end and a male faston type tab on the other. See here: https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/images/L/4169-003.JPG The hole end of the adapter is fastened to the terminal on the back of the switch using the same screw (and washer if desired) that would be used to fasten a wire=99s ring terminal to the switch. No extra screws or washers are involved. b) The fastening of the adapter to the terminal on the back of the switch (preferably before the switch is installed in the panel) by means of the screw is intended to be a one time event, never to be loosened or removed from that time on. From that time on any connection, or disconnection, of a wire to the switch terminal is made by pushing on, or pulling off, ## a female faston type connector which has been crimped onto the end of a wire. 2) =9CI have already completed most of the wiring with ring terminal ends, and there is not enough slack to just cut them off and replace them with fast on terminals.=9D Realize that installing an available manufactured adapter actually extends the length of the terminal on the back of the switch a small distance. Maybe enough to cut the ring terminal off the end of the wire and replace it with a female faston type connector? If there is not enough length gained with an available manufactured adapter (or the holes in the manufactured adapters are not of the right size) to go the above route, then you can make your own faston type male adapters by buying suitably dimensioned hobby shop metal strips similar to this: http://www.micromark.com/solid-brass-strip-064-inch-thick-x-1and4-inch-wi de-x-12-inches-long-pkg-of-8,7025.html and make your own long-enough male faston adapters. Does this help? Any questions? OC **PS: Adapters that are bent 90 degrees in the middle can be used if that change of direction is more suitable for the eventual connection of the female faston type connector that has been crimped onto the end of a wire. ##PS: Sometimes the grip of a female faston type connector is so firmly gripped onto the male tab that it is very difficult to just pull the female connector off by hand. In that case one has to resort to a tool such as a screw driver to assist in prying the female connector free. ==================== From: Ken Ryan Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 11:43 AM Subject: Re: lengthening wires Thanks Owen, I didn't know such adapters exist, but using them would actually make my perceived problem worse by doubling the number of tiny screws and tiny washers located behind the panel. Interesting information nevertheless. ======= On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 3:39 AM, Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote: 5/28/2016 Ken Ryan wrote: =9CI sure wish that I had just used fast ons to begin with.=9D Hello Ken, Here is another solution: Convert your ring terminals to a faston type male tab with an adapter. The adapter gets fastened (intended permanently) onto the switch using the screw and you then have a male faston available to connect to with a female faston crimped onto the end of the wire. The adapters come in both straight and 90 degree versions. Poke around a bit on the internet, I bet that you can find suitable adapters. Here is one result. https://www.google.com/search?q=ring+terminal+to+male+tab&rlz=1C1AFAB _en___US560&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=622&tbm=isch&imgil=l2SoyWV-j8TU FM%253A%253Brpzrfe0opjUP_M%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.pegasusautor acing.com%25252Fproductdetails.asp%25253FRecID%2525253D12915&source=iu& pf=m&fir=l2SoyWV-j8TUFM%253A%252Crpzrfe0opjUP_M%252C_&usg=__GQIeu93 gvLfh21C-3IbiB5J4zW8%3D&ved=0ahUKEwj21Z7c0_zMAhWE5oMKHXIkDAcQyjcINg&ei= Wn9JV_bAMoTNjwTyyLA4#imgrc=l2SoyWV-j8TUFM%3A OC Time: 01:49:26 PM PST US From: Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.com> Subject: AeroElectric-List: lengthening wires I am having second thoughts about the future nightmare I may have created by choosing screw terminal switches with their tiny screws and washers for my panel. I have already completed most of the wiring with ring terminal ends, and there is not enough slack to just cut them off and replace them with fast on terminals. I don't consider completely re-doing all the wiring to be a very attractive option. My options seem to be: 1. just stick with what I have, ring terminals, screw connections to switches 2. cut off the terminals, butt splice on enough wire to allow for re-doing the ends with fast on terminals 3. come up with some other way of extending the wires, leaving the ring terminals intact, replacing the butt splice with some other type of connection to extend the wires If I were to stick with what I have, the one good thing is that I will have better access to the back side of the panel than most have. But without doubt if I were doing it over I would use fast ons. So I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to introduce butt splices to all the wires for the convenience of fast on terminals? My instincts are telling me to just go with what I have, as many airplanes have flown with switches that use screw terminals. But I sure wish that I had just used fast ons to begin with.


    Message 7


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    Time: 08:56:46 PM PST US
    From: "Owen Baker " <bakerocb@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: lengthening wires
    5/28/2016 Hello Ken, Thanks for the response. You wrote: =9CThen, in addition, there would be an equal number of screws and washers used to attach the other fast on adapter to the ring terminal on the wire.=9D** Nope. Please note carefully the distinction between the use of the word adapter (for the male end of this connection) and the use of the word connector (for the female end of this connection) in my writing. Quoting from paragraph 2 b of my May 28, 2016 at 1:32 PM email (which is copied below): =9CFrom that time on any connection, or disconnection, of a wire to the switch terminal is made by pushing on, or pulling off, ## a female faston type connector which has been crimped onto the end of a wire.=9D The existing ring terminal on the wire is cut off. The wire is stripped and a female faston type connector (not any kind of adapter) is crimped onto the wire. Then, in order to connect a wire to the switch, that female faston type connector is pushed onto the male faston adapter that you have fastened onto the switch terminal using the originally provided single screw (and washer if desired). Here is a typical female faston type connector that gets crimped onto the end of the wire: http://www.steinair.com/product/18-22-ga-red-faston-14/ Here is a male faston type adapter that gets fastened onto the switch terminal with a single screw (and washer if desired): https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/images/L/4169-003.JPG Note that there are many different manufacturers of faston (push together) type fasteners, many different sizes of those type fasteners, and many different names used for those type fasteners. You should ensure that: a) the tab on the male adapter and the push on portion of the female connector are size compatible; b) the hole in the male adapter is suitable for the screw size on the switch terminal; and c) the crimp side of the female connector is suitable for the wire size that you are using. If wire length is still a problem in your mind please read item 2 in my May 28, 2016 at 1:32 PM email (copied below). Any questions? OC **PS: I suppose that there may exist such a female faston type type adapter that could be used in the fashion that you describe, but I have not gone looking for any and I don=99t suggest that any should be used to solve your problem. ======================= From: Ken Ryan Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 5:59 PM Subject: Re: lengthening wires Thanks Owen, I do believe that I understand what you are saying, but don't you see that it would result in twice as many screws and washers? I say this because the original number of screws and washers (those that would have been used to connect the ring terminal to the switch) would be used to connect the fast on adapter to the switch. Then, in addition, there would be an equal number of screws and washers used to attach the other fast on adapter to the ring terminal on the wire. So if I understood you correctly the first time, that would be twice as many screws and washers. =93 Ken ============ On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote: 5/28/2016 Hello Ken, Thanks for the quick response, but your comments puzzle me. Perhaps you don=99t understand the adapter that I propose and how it is used. You wrote: 1) =9C.... make my perceived problem worse by doubling the number of tiny screws and tiny washers located behind the panel.=9D a) The adapter that I propose is nothing more than a small (usually flat)** piece of metal with a hole in one end and a male faston type tab on the other. See here: https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/images/L/4169-003.JPG The hole end of the adapter is fastened to the terminal on the back of the switch using the same screw (and washer if desired) that would be used to fasten a wire=99s ring terminal to the switch. No extra screws or washers are involved. b) The fastening of the adapter to the terminal on the back of the switch (preferably before the switch is installed in the panel) by means of the screw is intended to be a one time event, never to be loosened or removed from that time on. From that time on any connection, or disconnection, of a wire to the switch terminal is made by pushing on, or pulling off, ## a female faston type connector which has been crimped onto the end of a wire. 2) =9CI have already completed most of the wiring with ring terminal ends, and there is not enough slack to just cut them off and replace them with fast on terminals.=9D Realize that installing an available manufactured adapter actually extends the length of the terminal on the back of the switch a small distance. Maybe enough to cut the ring terminal off the end of the wire and replace it with a female faston type connector? If there is not enough length gained with an available manufactured adapter (or the holes in the manufactured adapters are not of the right size) to go the above route, then you can make your own faston type male adapters by buying suitably dimensioned hobby shop metal strips similar to this: http://www.micromark.com/solid-brass-strip-064-inch-thick-x-1and4-inch-wi de-x-12-inches-long-pkg-of-8,7025.html and make your own long-enough male faston adapters. Does this help? Any questions? OC **PS: Adapters that are bent 90 degrees in the middle can be used if that change of direction is more suitable for the eventual connection of the female faston type connector that has been crimped onto the end of a wire. ##PS: Sometimes the grip of a female faston type connector is so firmly gripped onto the male tab that it is very difficult to just pull the female connector off by hand. In that case one has to resort to a tool such as a screw driver to assist in prying the female connector free.




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