Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:40 AM - lengthening wires (Owen Baker)
2. 05:56 AM - Re: lengthening wires (Justin Jones)
3. 06:35 AM - Re: lengthening wires (William Hunter)
4. 07:23 AM - Re: lengthening wires (ARGOLDMAN@aol.com)
5. 08:38 AM - Re: lengthening wires (Robert Borger)
6. 02:34 PM - Re: lengthening wires (Owen Baker)
7. 08:56 PM - Re: lengthening wires (Owen Baker)
Message 1
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Subject: | lengthening wires |
5/28/2016
Ken Ryan wrote: =9CI sure wish that I had just used fast ons to
begin with.=9D
Hello Ken, Here is another solution: Convert your ring terminals to a
faston type male tab with an adapter.
The adapter gets fastened (intended permanently) onto the switch using
the screw and you then have a male faston available to connect to with a
female faston crimped onto the end of the wire. The adapters come in
both straight and 90 degree versions.
Poke around a bit on the internet, I bet that you can find suitable
adapters. Here is one result.
https://www.google.com/search?q=ring+terminal+to+male+tab&rlz=1C1AFAB
_en___US560&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=622&tbm=isch&imgil=l2SoyWV-j8TU
FM%253A%253Brpzrfe0opjUP_M%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.pegasusautor
acing.com%25252Fproductdetails.asp%25253FRecID%2525253D12915&source=iu&
pf=m&fir=l2SoyWV-j8TUFM%253A%252Crpzrfe0opjUP_M%252C_&usg=__GQIeu93
gvLfh21C-3IbiB5J4zW8%3D&ved=0ahUKEwj21Z7c0_zMAhWE5oMKHXIkDAcQyjcINg&ei=
Wn9JV_bAMoTNjwTyyLA4#imgrc=l2SoyWV-j8TUFM%3A
OC
Time: 01:49:26 PM PST US
From: Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: lengthening wires
I am having second thoughts about the future nightmare I may have
created
by choosing screw terminal switches with their tiny screws and washers
for
my panel.
I have already completed most of the wiring with ring terminal ends, and
there is not enough slack to just cut them off and replace them with
fast
on terminals.
I don't consider completely re-doing all the wiring to be a very
attractive
option.
My options seem to be:
1. just stick with what I have, ring terminals, screw connections to
switches
2. cut off the terminals, butt splice on enough wire to allow for
re-doing
the ends with fast on terminals
3. come up with some other way of extending the wires, leaving the ring
terminals intact, replacing the butt splice with some other type of
connection to extend the wires
If I were to stick with what I have, the one good thing is that I will
have
better access to the back side of the panel than most have. But without
doubt if I were doing it over I would use fast ons. So I'm trying to
decide
if it's worth it to introduce butt splices to all the wires for the
convenience of fast on terminals?
My instincts are telling me to just go with what I have, as many
airplanes
have flown with switches that use screw terminals. But I sure wish that
I
had just used fast ons to begin with.
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: lengthening wires |
Be careful not to adopt the government's strategy here. "If it's not broken
, fix it until it is".
If it's working for you, keep letting it work for you until it breaks. Then f
ix it.
Justin
> On May 27, 2016, at 14:02, Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks guys. So far it's unanimous, stick with what I've got. Next airplan
e I will use fast ons. Live and learn.
>
>> On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 1:45 PM, Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com> wrote:
>> Ken,
>>
>> Personally, I=99d stick with the screw and ring since that=99
s how you are set up. They are a bit of a PITA to fiddly with but once in a
nd with no strain on the wire they will be fine.
>>
>> Should you choose to go to the fast-on route you can extend wires neatly u
sing D-Sub pins & sockets. Use the machined/crimp D-Subs (http://www.bandc.
aero/d-subpin.aspx & http://www.bandc.aero/d-subsocket.aspx). Cut your wire
, crimp a plug onto the wire. Crimp a socket onto your extension wire. Joi
n and cover with shrink tube and you have a nice, neat, extended wire.
>>
>> I hope this helps.
>>
>> Blue skies & tailwinds,
>> Bob Borger
>> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs).
>> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
>> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
>> Corinth, TX 76208-5331
>> Cel: 817-992-1117
>> rlborger@mac.com
>>
>> On May 27, 2016, at 3:46 PM, Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I am having second thoughts about the future nightmare I may have created
by choosing screw terminal switches with their tiny screws and washers for m
y panel.
>>
>> I have already completed most of the wiring with ring terminal ends, and t
here is not enough slack to just cut them off and replace them with fast on t
erminals.
>>
>> I don't consider completely re-doing all the wiring to be a very attracti
ve option.
>>
>> My options seem to be:
>>
>> 1. just stick with what I have, ring terminals, screw connections to swit
ches
>>
>> 2. cut off the terminals, butt splice on enough wire to allow for re-doin
g the ends with fast on terminals
>>
>> 3. come up with some other way of extending the wires, leaving the ring t
erminals intact, replacing the butt splice with some other type of connectio
n to extend the wires
>>
>> If I were to stick with what I have, the one good thing is that I will ha
ve better access to the back side of the panel than most have. But without d
oubt if I were doing it over I would use fast ons. So I'm trying to decide i
f it's worth it to introduce butt splices to all the wires for the convenien
ce of fast on terminals?
>>
>> My instincts are telling me to just go with what I have, as many airplane
s have flown with switches that use screw terminals. But I sure wish that I h
ad just used fast ons to begin with.
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: lengthening wires |
Bob Borger,
Cleaver idea... use the D sub pins without the connector housing to splice
individual wires... cool idea.
Bill Hunter
On May 28, 2016 06:03, "Justin Jones" <jmjones2000@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Be careful not to adopt the government's strategy here. "If it's not
> broken, fix it until it is".
>
> If it's working for you, keep letting it work for you until it breaks.
> Then fix it.
>
> Justin
>
>
> On May 27, 2016, at 14:02, Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks guys. So far it's unanimous, stick with what I've got. Next
> airplane I will use fast ons. Live and learn.
>
> On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 1:45 PM, Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> Ken,
>>
>> Personally, I=99d stick with the screw and ring since that
=99s how you are
>> set up. They are a bit of a PITA to fiddly with but once in and with no
>> strain on the wire they will be fine.
>>
>> Should you choose to go to the fast-on route you can extend wires neatly
>> using D-Sub pins & sockets. Use the machined/crimp D-Subs (
>> http://www.bandc.aero/d-subpin.aspx &
>> http://www.bandc.aero/d-subsocket.aspx). Cut your wire, crimp a plug
>> onto the wire. Crimp a socket onto your extension wire. Join and cover
>> with shrink tube and you have a nice, neat, extended wire.
>>
>> I hope this helps.
>>
>> Blue skies & tailwinds,
>> Bob Borger
>> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs).
>> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
>> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
>> Corinth, TX 76208-5331
>> Cel: 817-992-1117
>> rlborger@mac.com
>>
>> On May 27, 2016, at 3:46 PM, Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I am having second thoughts about the future nightmare I may have create
d
>> by choosing screw terminal switches with their tiny screws and washers f
or
>> my panel.
>>
>> I have already completed most of the wiring with ring terminal ends, and
>> there is not enough slack to just cut them off and replace them with fas
t
>> on terminals.
>>
>> I don't consider completely re-doing all the wiring to be a very
>> attractive option.
>>
>> My options seem to be:
>>
>> 1. just stick with what I have, ring terminals, screw connections to
>> switches
>>
>> 2. cut off the terminals, butt splice on enough wire to allow for
>> re-doing the ends with fast on terminals
>>
>> 3. come up with some other way of extending the wires, leaving the ring
>> terminals intact, replacing the butt splice with some other type of
>> connection to extend the wires
>>
>> If I were to stick with what I have, the one good thing is that I will
>> have better access to the back side of the panel than most have. But
>> without doubt if I were doing it over I would use fast ons. So I'm tryin
g
>> to decide if it's worth it to introduce butt splices to all the wires fo
r
>> the convenience of fast on terminals?
>>
>> My instincts are telling me to just go with what I have, as many
>> airplanes have flown with switches that use screw terminals. But I sure
>> wish that I had just used fast ons to begin with.
>>
>>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: lengthening wires |
If you are going to do this, use the non-flexible heatshrink tubing.
What about just soldering the wires (20 ga and larger)
Rich
In a message dated 5/28/2016 8:35:56 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
billhuntersemail@gmail.com writes:
Bob Borger,
Cleaver idea... use the D sub pins without the connector housing to splic
e
individual wires... cool idea.
Bill Hunter
On May 28, 2016 06:03, "Justin Jones" <_jmjones2000@mindspring.com_
(mailto:jmjones2000@mindspring.com) > wrote:
Be careful not to adopt the government's strategy here. "If it's not
broken, fix it until it is".
If it's working for you, keep letting it work for you until it breaks.
Then fix it.
Justin
On May 27, 2016, at 14:02, Ken Ryan <_keninalaska@gmail.com_
(mailto:keninalaska@gmail.com) > wrote:
Thanks guys. So far it's unanimous, stick with what I've got. Next
airplane I will use fast ons. Live and learn.
On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 1:45 PM, Robert Borger <_rlborger@mac.com_
(mailto:rlborger@mac.com) > wrote:
Ken,
Personally, I=99d stick with the screw and ring since that=99s
how you are
set up. They are a bit of a PITA to fiddly with but once in and with no
strain on the wire they will be fine.
Should you choose to go to the fast-on route you can extend wires neatly
using D-Sub pins & sockets. Use the machined/crimp D-Subs
(http://www.bandc.aero/d-subpin.aspx & http://www.bandc.aero/d-subsocket.a
spx). Cut your
wire, crimp a plug onto the wire. Crimp a socket onto your extension wir
e.
Join and cover with shrink tube and you have a nice, neat, extended wire.
I hope this helps.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs).
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: _817-992-1117_ (tel:817-992-1117)
_rlborger@mac.com_ (mailto:rlborger@mac.com)
On May 27, 2016, at 3:46 PM, Ken Ryan <_keninalaska@gmail.com_
(mailto:keninalaska@gmail.com) > wrote:
I am having second thoughts about the future nightmare I may have created
by choosing screw terminal switches with their tiny screws and washers fo
r
my panel.
I have already completed most of the wiring with ring terminal ends, and
there is not enough slack to just cut them off and replace them with fast
on
terminals.
I don't consider completely re-doing all the wiring to be a very
attractive option.
My options seem to be:
1. just stick with what I have, ring terminals, screw connections to
switches
2. cut off the terminals, butt splice on enough wire to allow for re-doin
g
the ends with fast on terminals
3. come up with some other way of extending the wires, leaving the ring
terminals intact, replacing the butt splice with some other type of
connection to extend the wires
If I were to stick with what I have, the one good thing is that I will
have better access to the back side of the panel than most have. But with
out
doubt if I were doing it over I would use fast ons. So I'm trying to deci
de
if it's worth it to introduce butt splices to all the wires for the
convenience of fast on terminals?
My instincts are telling me to just go with what I have, as many airplane
s
have flown with switches that use screw terminals. But I sure wish that
I
had just used fast ons to begin with.
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: lengthening wires |
Bill,
Works great as long as the wire is well supported and there=99s no
strain or tension. It=99s a very neat solution that doesn=99t
make a big knot like an in-line crimp splice.
Solder sleeves also work well but I find them a bit fussier to make a
nice neat join. They are the way to go for unsupported wire or wire
were there is significant tension on the wire.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs).
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On May 28, 2016, at 8:33 AM, William Hunter <billhuntersemail@gmail.com>
wrote:
Bob Borger,
Cleaver idea... use the D sub pins without the connector housing to
splice individual wires... cool idea.
Bill Hunter
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: lengthening wires |
5/28/2016
Hello Ken, Thanks for the quick response, but your comments puzzle me.
Perhaps you don=99t understand the adapter that I propose and how
it is used.
You wrote:
1) =9C.... make my perceived problem worse by doubling the number
of tiny screws and tiny washers located behind the panel.=9D
a) The adapter that I propose is nothing more than a small (usually
flat)** piece of metal with a hole in one end and a male faston type tab
on the other. See here:
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/images/L/4169-003.JPG
The hole end of the adapter is fastened to the terminal on the back of
the switch using the same screw (and washer if desired) that would be
used to fasten a wire=99s ring terminal
to the switch. No extra screws or washers are involved.
b) The fastening of the adapter to the terminal on the back of the
switch (preferably before the switch is installed in the panel) by means
of the screw is intended to be a one time event,
never to be loosened or removed from that time on. From that time on any
connection, or disconnection, of a wire to the switch terminal is made
by pushing on, or pulling off, ## a female
faston type connector which has been crimped onto the end of a wire.
2) =9CI have already completed most of the wiring with ring
terminal ends, and there is not enough slack to just cut them off and
replace them with fast
on terminals.=9D
Realize that installing an available manufactured adapter actually
extends the length of the terminal on the back of the switch a small
distance. Maybe enough to cut the ring terminal off the end of the wire
and replace it with a female faston type connector?
If there is not enough length gained with an available manufactured
adapter (or the holes in the manufactured adapters are not of the right
size) to go the above route, then you can make your own faston type male
adapters by buying suitably dimensioned hobby shop metal strips similar
to this:
http://www.micromark.com/solid-brass-strip-064-inch-thick-x-1and4-inch-wi
de-x-12-inches-long-pkg-of-8,7025.html
and make your own long-enough male faston adapters.
Does this help? Any questions?
OC
**PS: Adapters that are bent 90 degrees in the middle can be used if
that change of direction is more suitable for the eventual connection of
the female faston type connector that has
been crimped onto the end of a wire.
##PS: Sometimes the grip of a female faston type connector is so firmly
gripped onto the male tab that it is very difficult to just pull the
female connector off by hand. In that case one has to resort to a tool
such as a screw driver to assist in prying the female connector free.
====================
From: Ken Ryan
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: lengthening wires
Thanks Owen, I didn't know such adapters exist, but using them would
actually make my perceived problem worse by doubling the number of tiny
screws and tiny washers located behind the panel. Interesting
information nevertheless.
=======
On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 3:39 AM, Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
5/28/2016
Ken Ryan wrote: =9CI sure wish that I had just used fast ons to
begin with.=9D
Hello Ken, Here is another solution: Convert your ring terminals to a
faston type male tab with an adapter.
The adapter gets fastened (intended permanently) onto the switch using
the screw and you then have a male faston available to connect to with a
female faston crimped onto the end of the wire. The adapters come in
both straight and 90 degree versions.
Poke around a bit on the internet, I bet that you can find suitable
adapters. Here is one result.
https://www.google.com/search?q=ring+terminal+to+male+tab&rlz=1C1AFAB
_en___US560&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=622&tbm=isch&imgil=l2SoyWV-j8TU
FM%253A%253Brpzrfe0opjUP_M%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.pegasusautor
acing.com%25252Fproductdetails.asp%25253FRecID%2525253D12915&source=iu&
pf=m&fir=l2SoyWV-j8TUFM%253A%252Crpzrfe0opjUP_M%252C_&usg=__GQIeu93
gvLfh21C-3IbiB5J4zW8%3D&ved=0ahUKEwj21Z7c0_zMAhWE5oMKHXIkDAcQyjcINg&ei=
Wn9JV_bAMoTNjwTyyLA4#imgrc=l2SoyWV-j8TUFM%3A
OC
Time: 01:49:26 PM PST US
From: Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: lengthening wires
I am having second thoughts about the future nightmare I may have
created
by choosing screw terminal switches with their tiny screws and washers
for
my panel.
I have already completed most of the wiring with ring terminal ends,
and
there is not enough slack to just cut them off and replace them with
fast
on terminals.
I don't consider completely re-doing all the wiring to be a very
attractive
option.
My options seem to be:
1. just stick with what I have, ring terminals, screw connections to
switches
2. cut off the terminals, butt splice on enough wire to allow for
re-doing
the ends with fast on terminals
3. come up with some other way of extending the wires, leaving the
ring
terminals intact, replacing the butt splice with some other type of
connection to extend the wires
If I were to stick with what I have, the one good thing is that I will
have
better access to the back side of the panel than most have. But
without
doubt if I were doing it over I would use fast ons. So I'm trying to
decide
if it's worth it to introduce butt splices to all the wires for the
convenience of fast on terminals?
My instincts are telling me to just go with what I have, as many
airplanes
have flown with switches that use screw terminals. But I sure wish
that I
had just used fast ons to begin with.
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: lengthening wires |
5/28/2016
Hello Ken, Thanks for the response. You wrote: =9CThen, in
addition, there would be an equal number of screws and washers used to
attach the other fast on adapter to the ring terminal on the
wire.=9D**
Nope. Please note carefully the distinction between the use of the word
adapter (for the male end of this connection) and the use of the word
connector (for the female end of this connection) in my writing. Quoting
from paragraph 2 b of my May 28, 2016 at 1:32 PM email (which is copied
below):
=9CFrom that time on any connection, or disconnection, of a wire
to the switch terminal is made by pushing on, or pulling off, ## a
female faston type connector which has been crimped onto the end of a
wire.=9D
The existing ring terminal on the wire is cut off. The wire is stripped
and a female faston type connector (not any kind of adapter) is crimped
onto the wire. Then, in order to connect a wire to the switch, that
female faston type connector is pushed onto the male faston adapter that
you have fastened onto the switch terminal using the originally provided
single screw (and washer if desired).
Here is a typical female faston type connector that gets crimped onto
the end of the wire:
http://www.steinair.com/product/18-22-ga-red-faston-14/
Here is a male faston type adapter that gets fastened onto the switch
terminal with a single screw (and washer if desired):
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/images/L/4169-003.JPG
Note that there are many different manufacturers of faston (push
together) type fasteners, many different sizes of those type fasteners,
and many different names used for those type fasteners. You should
ensure that: a) the tab on the male adapter and the push on portion of
the female connector are size compatible; b) the hole in the male
adapter is suitable for the screw size on the switch terminal; and c)
the crimp side of the female connector is suitable for the wire size
that you are using.
If wire length is still a problem in your mind please read item 2 in my
May 28, 2016 at 1:32 PM email (copied below).
Any questions?
OC
**PS: I suppose that there may exist such a female faston type type
adapter that could be used in the fashion that you describe, but I have
not gone looking for any and I don=99t suggest that any should be
used to solve your problem.
=======================
From: Ken Ryan
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: lengthening wires
Thanks Owen, I do believe that I understand what you are saying, but
don't you see that it would result in twice as many screws and washers?
I say this because the original number of screws and washers (those that
would have been used to connect the ring terminal to the switch) would
be used to connect the fast on adapter to the switch. Then, in addition,
there would be an equal number of screws and washers used to attach the
other fast on adapter to the ring terminal on the wire. So if I
understood you correctly the first time, that would be twice as many
screws and washers. =93 Ken
============
On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
5/28/2016
Hello Ken, Thanks for the quick response, but your comments puzzle me.
Perhaps you don=99t understand the adapter that I propose and how
it is used.
You wrote:
1) =9C.... make my perceived problem worse by doubling the
number of tiny screws and tiny washers located behind the
panel.=9D
a) The adapter that I propose is nothing more than a small (usually
flat)** piece of metal with a hole in one end and a male faston type tab
on the other. See here:
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/images/L/4169-003.JPG
The hole end of the adapter is fastened to the terminal on the back of
the switch using the same screw (and washer if desired) that would be
used to fasten a wire=99s ring terminal
to the switch. No extra screws or washers are involved.
b) The fastening of the adapter to the terminal on the back of the
switch (preferably before the switch is installed in the panel) by means
of the screw is intended to be a one time event,
never to be loosened or removed from that time on. From that time on
any connection, or disconnection, of a wire to the switch terminal is
made by pushing on, or pulling off, ## a female
faston type connector which has been crimped onto the end of a wire.
2) =9CI have already completed most of the wiring with ring
terminal ends, and there is not enough slack to just cut them off and
replace them with fast
on terminals.=9D
Realize that installing an available manufactured adapter actually
extends the length of the terminal on the back of the switch a small
distance. Maybe enough to cut the ring terminal off the end of the wire
and replace it with a female faston type connector?
If there is not enough length gained with an available manufactured
adapter (or the holes in the manufactured adapters are not of the right
size) to go the above route, then you can make your own faston type male
adapters by buying suitably dimensioned hobby shop metal strips similar
to this:
http://www.micromark.com/solid-brass-strip-064-inch-thick-x-1and4-inch-wi
de-x-12-inches-long-pkg-of-8,7025.html
and make your own long-enough male faston adapters.
Does this help? Any questions?
OC
**PS: Adapters that are bent 90 degrees in the middle can be used if
that change of direction is more suitable for the eventual connection of
the female faston type connector that has
been crimped onto the end of a wire.
##PS: Sometimes the grip of a female faston type connector is so
firmly gripped onto the male tab that it is very difficult to just pull
the female connector off by hand. In that case one has to resort to a
tool such as a screw driver to assist in prying the female connector
free.
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