Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:18 AM - Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
2. 07:03 AM - Saggy bus voltage on Cessna 182 (Alec Myers)
3. 08:08 AM - ADS-B SDR (was Re: Some low-cost EMC tools . . .) (Rick Beebe)
4. 09:25 AM - Re: Saggy bus voltage on Cessna 182 (Charlie England)
5. 09:37 AM - Re: Saggy bus voltage on Cessna 182 (Craig Reding)
6. 09:56 AM - Re: Saggy bus voltage on Cessna 182 (Art Zemon)
7. 10:42 AM - Re: Saggy bus voltage on Cessna 182 (Kent or Jackie Ashton)
8. 12:01 PM - Re: Saggy bus voltage on Cessna 182 (user9253)
9. 12:45 PM - Re: Saggy bus voltage on Cessna 182 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 01:42 PM - Re: Some low-cost EMC tools . . . (merlewagner2)
11. 03:40 PM - Re: Re: Some low-cost EMC tools . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
AeroElectric-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
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AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
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The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List.
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Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Saggy bus voltage on Cessna 182 |
Hello all,
I wonder if I could get some ideas on fixing an electrical issue with my 1975 Cessna
182.
The issue is that the bus voltage sags under load. With the engine running and
no electrical load the voltage is approximately 13.8V, dropping to 13.2V with
daytime load (beacon, avionics, engine monitor, electrical TC, autopilot) and
with night time lighting (add strobes, position lights, LED landing and taxi lights,
instrument lights) it drops to 12.8V.
During flight the battery isn't fully charging and the engine start for the next
flight I would describe as "reluctant". If I top off the battery from a line
voltage charger for a few hours the next engine start is "enthusiastic".
I have had the alternator serviced, and I have replaced the regulator. I have put
a 'scope on the bus with the engine running and I see steady dc with about
50mV pp of ripple. I have a photograph of the scope trace, not sure how best to
make it visible to list readers, but the ripple looks like a rectified AC waveform
with no gaps (gaps I think would indicate a failed diode).
Can anyone suggest where I could look next?
Thanks for any suggestions
Alec
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Some low-cost EMC tools . . .) |
The Open Flight Solutions system is a commercialized version of the
Stratux project at http://stratux.me. I've built several of those for
myself and friends. That said, for my own system I replaced the crappy
3D printed enclosure I had been using for the one from Open Flight
Solutions and it is a seriously nice box. And for about $50 more than
sourcing all the parts yourself you can get a complete kit from him
which is what I'm now recommending to my friends.
At it's core, Stratux is a Raspberry Pi with one or two SDRs running
software written by Chris Young to decode the ADS-B transmission and to
send the results over wifi to a tablet or smart phone.
--Rick
On 6/1/2016 9:22 PM, Joe wrote:
> Instead of waiting on an incompatible European ADS-B box. Check out
> this one: https://www.openflightsolutions.com/flightbox/
>
> Have a friend who just installed one in his C182 and is really pleased
> with how well it works.
>
> Joe Parchesky
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Maxwell <wrmaxwell@bigpond.com>
> To: aeroelectric-list <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wed, Jun 1, 2016 7:54 pm
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Some low-cost EMC tools . . .
>
> For anybody interested in the PilotAware application and hardware, and
> it is very noteworthy in that it not only receives and displays ADSB
> traffic on your navigation application but also generates its own signal
> for display if your aircraft is not ADSB equipped, the local radio
> transceiver used is only good for Europe. It uses a frequency of 868
> MHz, or thereabouts from memory, which is not available in the US,
> Canada, Australia or much of the rest of the world. Hopefully the team
> will develop a hardware version which can be used at say 921 MHz so that
> we can all benefit from it.
> Bill
>
> On 2/06/2016 6:01 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> At 01:05 AM 6/1/2016, you wrote:
>
> <jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
>
> Hi Bob
>
> I'm not sure what you have written here, but the last sentence
> certainly rang a bell, and wondered if this is what you are
> talking about
>
> http://www.pilotaware.com <http://www.pilotaware.com/>
>
>
> The only connection I've made with respect to
> ADSB intercepts is what was demonstrated on
> the linked video.
>
> Most certainly, this capability is deeply dependent
> on some detailed knowledge of ADSB along with the
> talents to write software. No doubt, there are
> software packages with amazing capability . . .
> for a price.
>
> At the same time, there exists a boatload of open
> source packages that are free.
>
> For the moment, my interest is focused on using
> the SDR as a noise-source identification and
> qualification tool. I'll leave it up to you guys
> to explore broader interests to our brothers
> on the List . . .
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Saggy bus voltage on Cessna 182 |
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 8:08 AM, Alec Myers <alec@alecmyers.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> I wonder if I could get some ideas on fixing an electrical issue with my
> 1975 Cessna 182.
>
> The issue is that the bus voltage sags under load. With the engine running
> and no electrical load the voltage is approximately 13.8V, dropping to
> 13.2V with daytime load (beacon, avionics, engine monitor, electrical TC,
> autopilot) and with night time lighting (add strobes, position lights, LED
> landing and taxi lights, instrument lights) it drops to 12.8V.
>
> During flight the battery isn't fully charging and the engine start for
> the next flight I would describe as "reluctant". If I top off the battery
> from a line voltage charger for a few hours the next engine start is
> "enthusiastic".
>
> I have had the alternator serviced, and I have replaced the regulator. I
> have put a 'scope on the bus with the engine running and I see steady dc
> with about 50mV pp of ripple. I have a photograph of the scope trace, not
> sure how best to make it visible to list readers, but the ripple looks like
> a rectified AC waveform with no gaps (gaps I think would indicate a failed
> diode).
>
> Can anyone suggest where I could look next?
>
> Thanks for any suggestions
>
> Alec
>
> Can you get voltmeter probes *directly on* the alternator B lead post &
case? Not on the bolts, clamps etc, but directly on the post. Measure
voltage there with the engine running & loads off, then on.
Sounds like the alternator is supplying ~the right voltage (possibly just a
bit low). But if you have high resistance connections anywhere between the
alternator and the loads (on the B+ side *or* the ground side paths), the
loads may not be seeing the full alternator voltage. If you have an issue
with high resistance connections, the voltage from alternator B terminal to
case will still be at 13.8 but your bus (and battery) voltage will be
lower, due to voltage drops in the high resistance connections.
Secondary possibility would be the same issue, but in the field circuit
from regulator to field terminal on the alt.
Charlie
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Saggy bus voltage on Cessna 182 |
Im not an expert but I would look for corrosion around grounds. Make sure all of
your grounds are good.
Craig
> On Jun 2, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Alec Myers <alec@alecmyers.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> I wonder if I could get some ideas on fixing an electrical issue with my 1975
Cessna 182.
>
> The issue is that the bus voltage sags under load. With the engine running and
no electrical load the voltage is approximately 13.8V, dropping to 13.2V with
daytime load (beacon, avionics, engine monitor, electrical TC, autopilot) and
with night time lighting (add strobes, position lights, LED landing and taxi
lights, instrument lights) it drops to 12.8V.
>
> During flight the battery isn't fully charging and the engine start for the next
flight I would describe as "reluctant". If I top off the battery from a line
voltage charger for a few hours the next engine start is "enthusiastic".
>
> I have had the alternator serviced, and I have replaced the regulator. I have
put a 'scope on the bus with the engine running and I see steady dc with about
50mV pp of ripple. I have a photograph of the scope trace, not sure how best
to make it visible to list readers, but the ripple looks like a rectified AC
waveform with no gaps (gaps I think would indicate a failed diode).
>
> Can anyone suggest where I could look next?
>
> Thanks for any suggestions
>
> Alec
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Saggy bus voltage on Cessna 182 |
I hate it when that happens. It's bad enough when old pilots sag but we
should be able to depend on our airplanes staying __. =F0=9F=98=8B
-- Art Z.
Sent from my phone so please excuse typos and brevity.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Saggy bus voltage on Cessna 182 |
To add to what Charlie said, It sounds like a battery load-test is in order. A
place like Batteries Plus can do one for you. Also Skytec has a good explanation
of how to check for a high resistance that results in voltage drop.
http://www.skytecair.com/troubleshooting.htm
-Kent
> On Jun 2, 2016, at 11:37 AM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 8:08 AM, Alec Myers <alec@alecmyers.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> I wonder if I could get some ideas on fixing an electrical issue with my 1975
Cessna 182.
>
> The issue is that the bus voltage sags under load. With the engine running and
no electrical load the voltage is approximately 13.8V, dropping to 13.2V with
daytime load (beacon, avionics, engine monitor, electrical TC, autopilot) and
with night time lighting (add strobes, position lights, LED landing and taxi
lights, instrument lights) it drops to 12.8V.
>
> During flight the battery isn't fully charging and the engine start for the next
flight I would describe as "reluctant". If I top off the battery from a line
voltage charger for a few hours the next engine start is "enthusiastic".
>
> I have had the alternator serviced, and I have replaced the regulator. I have
put a 'scope on the bus with the engine running and I see steady dc with about
50mV pp of ripple. I have a photograph of the scope trace, not sure how best
to make it visible to list readers, but the ripple looks like a rectified AC
waveform with no gaps (gaps I think would indicate a failed diode).
>
> Can anyone suggest where I could look next?
>
> Thanks for any suggestions
>
> Alec
>
> Can you get voltmeter probes *directly on* the alternator B lead post & case?
Not on the bolts, clamps etc, but directly on the post. Measure voltage there
with the engine running & loads off, then on.
>
> Sounds like the alternator is supplying ~the right voltage (possibly just a bit
low). But if you have high resistance connections anywhere between the alternator
and the loads (on the B+ side *or* the ground side paths), the loads may
not be seeing the full alternator voltage. If you have an issue with high resistance
connections, the voltage from alternator B terminal to case will still
be at 13.8 but your bus (and battery) voltage will be lower, due to voltage
drops in the high resistance connections.
>
> Secondary possibility would be the same issue, but in the field circuit from
regulator to field terminal on the alt.
>
> Charlie
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Saggy bus voltage on Cessna 182 |
If the regulator has I A S F terminals, measure the voltage between terminal S
and the regulator case with the engine running. If 14 to 14.5 volts, the regulator
and alternator are working OK.
With engine running and all electrical loads turned on, measure the voltage between
the positive battery terminal and the alternator "B" terminal. The voltage
drop should be less than a few tenths of a volt. If more, then check all
connections between alternator B terminal and battery positive. Also check all
ground connections, especially regulator ground, engine ground strap and battery
ground.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456782#456782
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Saggy bus voltage on Cessna 182 |
At 10:37 AM 6/2/2016, you wrote:
>On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 8:08 AM, Alec Myers
><<mailto:alec@alecmyers.com>alec@alecmyers.com> wrote:
><<mailto:alec@alecmyers.com>alec@alecmyers.com>
>
>
>Hello all,
>
>I wonder if I could get some ideas on fixing an electrical issue
>with my 1975 Cessna 182.
>
>The issue is that the bus voltage sags under load. With the engine
>running and no electrical load the voltage is approximately 13.8V,
>dropping to 13.2V with daytime load (beacon, avionics, engine
>monitor, electrical TC, autopilot) and with night time lighting (add
>strobes, position lights, LED landing and taxi lights, instrument
>lights) it drops to 12.8V
The factory spec set point for those regulators
is 14.2 +/- 0.2 volts . . . After engine start
and before turning on any additional loads, the
BUS voltage should be within those limits.
>.
>
>During flight the battery isn't fully charging and the engine start
>for the next flight I would describe as "reluctant". If I top off
>the battery from a line voltage charger for a few hours the next
>engine start is "enthusiastic".
This observation rules out soggy battery. Given
the voltages you've reported, battery performance
sans external supports is understandable. A
battery will not accept significant energy
at bus voltages below 13.8 . . . and even at 13.8
it would take HOURS to top it off. This is why
the slightly excessive set-point is the legacy
value of 14.2 was selected for flooded lead-acid
batteries . . . 'slight' overcharge that quickly
tops off battery without serious 'damage'.
The sealed vented lead-acid (SLVA) likes to be
charged more aggressively . . . excerpts from
the Hawker data says:
Emacs!
This fact drives the B&C policy decision to factory
set their regulators to 14.6 volts.
>I have had the alternator serviced, and I have replaced the
>regulator. I have put a 'scope on the bus with the engine running
>and I see steady dc with about 50mV pp of ripple. I have a
>photograph of the scope trace, not sure how best to make it visible
>to list readers, but the ripple looks like a rectified AC waveform
>with no gaps (gaps I think would indicate a failed diode).
>
>Can anyone suggest where I could look next?
Yes . . . and it is simple . . . just not easy. You need
to get a voltmeter reading at the "S" and "F" terminals
of your regulator with the engine running. "VS" should
be the 14.2 +/- 0.2 volt value (or what ever is presently
presented on the regulator's name-plate) and "VF" should
be substantially larger than zero but NOT pegged against
the bus . . . if it is pegged, then increase RPM to see
if the voltage comes off the peg.
I have had the alternator serviced, and I have replaced the
regulator. I have put a 'scope on the bus with the engine running and
I see steady dc with about 50mV pp of ripple. I have a photograph of
the scope trace, not sure how best to make it visible to list
readers, but the ripple looks like a rectified AC waveform with no
gaps (gaps I think would indicate a failed diode).
This reading is WAAaayyy low. It should be on the order
of 1.5 volts pk-pk. 3 phase rectified DC is predicted
to have an RMS ripple voltage on the order of 4% of the DC
output. Hence 14 X 0.04 = 560 mVrms and approx 3x that
pk-pk.
If the bus voltage is that 'clean' then I think you're going
to find that the field voltage is essentially zero. Depending
on what you fine for "VS", there's probably a wiring disconnect
somewhere along the path from Bus through the alternator switch
to the OV sensor, out to the regulator and on to the alternator
"F" terminal.
Having the voltage measurements I suggested will 'divide' the
enemy in the battle toward submission.
Finally, once the stock regulator is working, you may want
to consider a more modern ADJUSTABLE device that can be
set to accommodate the special needs of SVLA batteries.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Some low-cost EMC tools . . . |
Bob,
Checkout rfexplorer.com. They have a neat setup for RF analysis using the RF Explorer.
If I wasn't building a spectrum analyzer then this would be my next purchase.
Merle
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456787#456787
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Some low-cost EMC tools . . . |
At 03:41 PM 6/2/2016, you wrote:
><wagnermerle@gmail.com>
>
>Bob,
>
>Checkout rfexplorer.com. They have a neat setup for RF analysis
>using the RF Explorer.
Yes, I've seen those. There are numerous hardware configurations
on eBay . . . and a variety of open source software support programs
as well. These are simply a more 'self contained' version of the
SDR modules. They certainly have an advantage of offering hand-held
utility.
I will probably have one of broad-band versions at some time
in the future.
Bob . . .
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