Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:16 AM - Antenna grounding (Michael Lazarowicz)
2. 09:38 AM - Re: Antenna grounding (Craig Reding)
3. 10:12 AM - Re: Antenna grounding (Michael Lazarowicz)
4. 10:14 AM - Re: Antenna grounding (user9253)
5. 11:24 AM - Re: Antenna grounding (Charlie England)
6. 04:48 PM - Re: 24V replacement batteries? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 05:54 PM - Re: Antenna grounding (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 07:14 PM - Re: 24V replacement batteries? (RV7builder)
9. 08:07 PM - Re: Saggy bus voltage on Cessna 182 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 08:43 PM - Re: Saggy bus voltage on Cessna 182 (Alec Myers)
11. 09:35 PM - Re: Antenna grounding (Michael Lazarowicz)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Antenna grounding |
I am Installing two Com Bent whip antennas on the belly of my RV8. These
are the Comant Brand sold by Stien and others. I have fabricated backing
plates with nutplates on them for ease of installation and to beef up the
area. I am planing to bond the plates to the inside of the skin. No
rivets and actually better support is my theory. I will leave off the
bonding agent near the 4 mounting screw holes to attempt to get a good
ground. Just to be sure I was considering making a short grounding strap
from the the backup plate to the air frame inside.
Will this extra ground cause me any issues. If the back plate were riveted
it wouldn't be necessary,
Also, I f any one has used these antennas they come with a thin cork
gasket. N0 instructions (there are none on their web site). Most people I
know just use a sealant on the base of the antenna perimeter.
Thanks
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna grounding |
Michael
I am building an 8 as well. What you describe is exactly what I was thinking about
doing.
If you can post some pictures. Also What structural adhesive were you planning
to use? I am thinking about using PRC. ( same a fuel tank sealant) as it will
create a waterproof seal, is strong and will not create any corrosion issues later
Craig
> On Jun 8, 2016, at 12:14 PM, Michael Lazarowicz <tllaz330@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am Installing two Com Bent whip antennas on the belly of my RV8. These are
the Comant Brand sold by Stien and others. I have fabricated backing plates
with nutplates on them for ease of installation and to beef up the area. I am
planing to bond the plates to the inside of the skin. No rivets and actually
better support is my theory. I will leave off the bonding agent near the 4 mounting
screw holes to attempt to get a good ground. Just to be sure I was considering
making a short grounding strap from the the backup plate to the air
frame inside.
>
> Will this extra ground cause me any issues. If the back plate were riveted it
wouldn't be necessary,
>
> Also, I f any one has used these antennas they come with a thin cork gasket.
N0 instructions (there are none on their web site). Most people I know just
use a sealant on the base of the antenna perimeter.
>
> Thanks
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna grounding |
I have researched this bonding issue quite a bit. T Aviation industry has
long used a product called Hysol. Its expensive unless you can find it tin
little packs.
Click Bond makes a great adhesive that is available in small packs from "
the Flight Shop" There about $1:50 each and you don't have to worry about
the mixing ratios.
There is another alternative that comes from West System EPOXY. zits
called G-FLex and you can get it online or most Marine supply houses. I
used it to bond the hinges to my cowl. G- Flex was devolved to bond
dissimilar material that expand and contract at different temps.
Regular Epoxy will crack over time because it gets way to brittle . G
Flex is even used to repair Aluminum boats. It comes in two forms.
Thickened and regular. You want the thickened. Its a 50/50 mix.
I will use the click bond because it is removable if need be with heat.
There is also a You tube on G-flex where they show how it can be used to
patch even under water.
Hope this all helps
On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 12:36 PM, Craig Reding <clr@redingaviation.com>
wrote:
> clr@redingaviation.com>
>
> Michael
>
> I am building an 8 as well. What you describe is exactly what I was
> thinking about doing.
>
> If you can post some pictures. Also What structural adhesive were you
> planning to use? I am thinking about using PRC. ( same a fuel tank
> sealant) as it will
> create a waterproof seal, is strong and will not create any corrosion
> issues later
>
>
> Craig
>
> > On Jun 8, 2016, at 12:14 PM, Michael Lazarowicz <tllaz330@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > I am Installing two Com Bent whip antennas on the belly of my RV8.
> These are the Comant Brand sold by Stien and others. I have fabricated
> backing plates with nutplates on them for ease of installation and to beef
> up the area. I am planing to bond the plates to the inside of the skin.
> No rivets and actually better support is my theory. I will leave off the
> bonding agent near the 4 mounting screw holes to attempt to get a good
> ground. Just to be sure I was considering making a short grounding strap
> from the the backup plate to the air frame inside.
> >
> > Will this extra ground cause me any issues. If the back plate were
> riveted it wouldn't be necessary,
> >
> > Also, I f any one has used these antennas they come with a thin cork
> gasket. N0 instructions (there are none on their web site). Most people I
> know just use a sealant on the base of the antenna perimeter.
> >
> > Thanks
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna grounding |
If the backing plates are square with a nutplate in each corner, then tightening
the screws will bring the corners into contact with the aircraft skin. No additional
grounding is needed. A thin film of grease under each corner will prevent
corrosion. The grease will not prevent metal to metal contact because
the grease will be forced out under screw pressure. Grease will keep air and
water and contaminants out.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456968#456968
Message 5
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| Subject: | Antenna grounding |
V2hhdCdzIHdyb25nIHdpdGggcml2ZXRzPyDCoFdoeSBub3QgYXQgbGVhc3QgYSByaXZldCBpbiBl
YWNoIGNvcm5lcj8gVGhlbiB5b3UgZ2V0IHRoZSBlbGVjdHJpY2FsIGJvbmQgeW91IG5lZWQuCgpJ
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CgpUaGFua3MK
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 24V replacement batteries? |
>
>
>Heads-up; not universally true. Commonly available agm quit starting
>my rv4 after about a year of use. Pulled top cowl & found a pinhole
>in side of case, & acid stain on the firewall 'shelf'. Obvious
>acid trail from pinhole. Furtunately, it didn't eat through the
>stainless firewall.
>
>I still use open hold downs like the pic, but a rubber 'tray liner'
>now seems advisable.
>
>Charlie
Interesting. What kind of battery was this? Was there
a 'goose egg' under the pin hole? I'm mystified as
to how this might happen. The AGM is valve regulated
to vent at 1-2 psi so that any swelling of the case
is associated with expanding plates material in their
death throes. I've not heard of a cell getting opened
to atmosphere on the sides without first suffering
gross chemical and electrical energy releases within
the cell. This has the smell of a manufacturing
defect.
Did you go back in with the same brand and part
number?
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna grounding |
At 11:14 AM 6/8/2016, you wrote:
>I am Installing two Com Bent whip antennas on
>the belly of my RV8.=C2 These are the Comant
>Brand sold by Stien and others.=C2 I have
>fabricated backing plates with nutplates on them
>for ease of installation and to beef up the
>area.=C2 I am planing to bond the plates to the
>inside of the skin.=C2 No rivets and actually
>better support is my theory.=C2 I will leave off
>the bonding agent near the 4 mounting screw
>holes to attempt to get a good ground.=C2 Just to
>be sure I was considering making a short
>grounding strap from the the backup plate to the air frame inside.=C2
WAayyyyy too much overkill . . . just rivet the
doubler to the a/c with appropriate rivets around
the periphery. Rivets swell up in the properly
drilled hole making a GAS-TIGHT connection between
itself and the mated materials. No other bonding
is necessary. The antenna should come with a gasket
or you can replace the gasket with a thin bead
of electronic (non-acid) rtv or just some E6000
wherein you wipe off the 'squeeze out' after the
mounting hardware is tightened.
http://tinyurl.com/6rwodso
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 24V replacement batteries? |
On June 8, 2016 6:38:19 PM CDT, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>Heads-up; not universally true. Commonly available agm quit starting
>>my rv4 after about a year of use. Pulled top cowl & found a pinhole
>>in side of case, & acid stain on the firewall 'shelf'. Obvious
>>acid trail from pinhole. Furtunately, it didn't eat through the
>>stainless firewall.
>>
>>I still use open hold downs like the pic, but a rubber 'tray liner'
>>now seems advisable.
>>
>>Charlie
>
>
> Interesting. What kind of battery was this? Was there
> a 'goose egg' under the pin hole? I'm mystified as
> to how this might happen. The AGM is valve regulated
> to vent at 1-2 psi so that any swelling of the case
> is associated with expanding plates material in their
> death throes. I've not heard of a cell getting opened
> to atmosphere on the sides without first suffering
> gross chemical and electrical energy releases within
> the cell. This has the smell of a manufacturing
> defect.
>
> Did you go back in with the same brand and part
> number?
>
> Bob . . .
Response was to the 'poke a hole; can't leak' statement. Hard to edit a quote on
a phone/tablet screen keyboard. Pinhole likely happened in shipping. Worked
for almost a year, but was slowly losing acid out the pinhole and on to the stainless
firewall.
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Saggy bus voltage on Cessna 182 |
At 08:59 AM 6/4/2016, you wrote:
>Alas, Canadian airplane so no 337 type process available...
Fooey . . .
>Both old and new regulators are Lamarr, solid state.
Aha! Are they not adjustable?
>With "lights on", I used the service manual electrical loads table
>to calculate the current draw on the alternator at close to 50amps
>(vice my previous estimate at 20): pitot heat, strobes, position
>lights, beacon and avionics all use more current than I thought.
>
>Paul Milner kindly pointed me to the Cessna service kit to replace
>the 60 amp CB, which involves shortening the bus bar so the
>replacement breaker will fit. I think the approved breaker is $400
>or thereabouts, so if it does need replacing, does anyone know a PMA
>alternative?
Hmmmm . . . your most economical route
would be to 'refurbish' . . . replace
as much of the parts with made-up, metal
to metal joints from the bus to the b-terminal.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Saggy bus voltage on Cessna 182 |
There is an adjustment inside the regulator. The newer regulator has the lid
riveted on, but the older one (same part code) has the lid secured by screw
s, so the trim pot can be reached. Set to maximum, I now get a bus voltage o
f 14.2V under no load, and 13.8 with everything energized. Which is a big im
provement.
I have sourced a new breaker - as you pointed out, it's a standard electrica
l part - I'll let you know what the results are when it's installed.
On Jun 4, 2016,:00, Robert L. Nuckolls, III e <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com
> wrote:
At 08:59 AM 6/4/2016, you wrote:
> Alas, Canadian airplane so no 337 type process available...
Fooey . . .
> Both old and new regulators are Lamarr, solid state.
Aha! Are they not adjustable?
> With "lights on", I used the service manual electrical loads table to calc
ulate the current draw on the alternator at close to 50amps (vice my previou
s estimate at 20): pitot heat, strobes, position lights, beacon and avionics
all use more current than I thought.
>
> Paul Milner kindly pointed me to the Cessna service kit to replace the 60 a
mp CB, which involves shortening the bus bar so the replacement breaker will
fit. I think the approved breaker is $400 or thereabouts, so if it does nee
d replacing, does anyone know a PMA alternative?
Hmmmm . . . your most economical route
would be to 'refurbish' . . . replace
as much of the parts with made-up, metal
to metal joints from the bus to the b-terminal.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna grounding |
Ok I give . I will rivet it.
I have a weird one for you Bob. I have been struggling to mount my
antennas the proper distance from each other and comply with other Garmin
restrictions . After a lot of back and forth with Garmin I made sure my
transponder antenna was three feet from the transponder as required in
their installation manual. I sent them a picture of where everything was
and their tec guy said he was " concerned" about how close my transponder
antenna is to the magnatomiter . The antenna in question is on the belly
and is about 11 inches below the manotomiter.
There are no restrictions in the magnatomiter installation that says it has
to be any specific distance from the transponder antenna. I know they are
concerned about magnetism near the unit. Why would they care about the
antenna?
On Wednesday, June 8, 2016, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 11:14 AM 6/8/2016, you wrote:
>
> I am Installing two Com Bent whip antennas on the belly of my RV8.=C3=82
These
> are the Comant Brand sold by Stien and others.=C3=82 I have fabricated b
acking
> plates with nutplates on them for ease of installation and to beef up the
> area.=C3=82 I am planing to bond the plates to the inside of the skin.
=C3=82 No
> rivets and actually better support is my theory.=C3=82 I will leave off
the
> bonding agent near the 4 mounting screw holes to attempt to get a good
> ground.=C3=82 Just to be sure I was considering making a short grounding
strap
> from the the backup plate to the air frame inside.=C3=82
>
>
> WAayyyyy too much overkill . . . just rivet the
> doubler to the a/c with appropriate rivets around
> the periphery. Rivets swell up in the properly
> drilled hole making a GAS-TIGHT connection between
> itself and the mated materials. No other bonding
> is necessary. The antenna should come with a gasket
> or you can replace the gasket with a thin bead
> of electronic (non-acid) rtv or just some E6000
> wherein you wipe off the 'squeeze out' after the
> mounting hardware is tightened.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/6rwodso
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
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