Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:46 AM - Re: New smartphone app for pilots (Stephen Richards)
2. 07:20 AM - Re: New smartphone app for pilots (rampil)
3. 11:16 AM - Z-13/8 Questions (Wade - Airdog77)
4. 12:56 PM - Re: Z-13/8 Questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 02:15 PM - Bendix King KY97A Tuning Problem (James Meade)
6. 02:26 PM - Remove KY97A Replace With SL40 (James Meade)
7. 04:31 PM - Re: Z-13/8 Questions (Airdog77)
8. 04:31 PM - Re: Remove KY97A Replace With SL40 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 06:20 PM - Re: Re: Z-13/8 Questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 06:59 PM - KX155 alternative (Jim Baker)
11. 07:38 PM - Re: KX155 alternative (Alec Myers)
12. 07:46 PM - Re: Re: Z-13/8 Questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 09:47 PM - Re: Z-13/8 Questions (Airdog77)
14. 11:39 PM - Re: Re: Z-13/8 Questions (John Tipton)
Message 1
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| Subject: | New smartphone app for pilots |
Ira
The Uk & rest of EASA land uses hectopascal Europe new name for ( Millibar
) & feet. So a upgrade would be useful
-----Original Message-----
From: "Bob Verwey" <bob.verwey@gmail.com>
Sent: =8E28/=8E06/=8E2016 07:53
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: New smartphone app for pilots
Nice one Ira,
We in South Africa also have the same system as the Aussies, so we would we
lcome the upgrade!
On 28 June 2016 at 00:04, rampil <ira.rampil@gmail.com> wrote:
Greetings All,
While being grounded for the past many months with a cracked engine block,
I have been amusing myself by writing software. Since there is a
preponderance of hardware geeks on the AeroElectric list, I thought you
guys might be interested this app from a long time list member/contributor.
Allow me to introduce avAltimeter
Not many many people are aware that in the iPhone 6 and later, Apple
has incorporated a Bosch barometer chip. I recently released to the
App Store a unique app which emulates an analog flight altimeter with
a number of "smart" features including a Kollsman window for setting
the current pressure, calculation of Density Altitude, true airspeed and
takeoff performance. The App also provides a warning for supplemental
oxygen consistent with US FARs.
Obviously avAltimeter is not FAA TSO approved and so I provide it for
entertainment only. At present it can only be run on iPhone 6 and later,
and not iPads or iPods. I understand the new Samsung Galaxy S7 now
has a barometer chip as well and I plan to transfer the code to Android
soon.
My software web site is http://www.aviametrix.com
or search for "avAltimeter" on the Apple App Store!
Thanks for your attention!
Cheers,
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457490#457490
-
Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
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Best...
Bob Verwey
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| Subject: | Re: New smartphone app for pilots |
Hi All!
Several of you have made the excellent point that in many more places
than I realized, the pressure setting is done in metric, but the output
required is in feet!
I modified the Setting Page to accommodate that requirement this morning.
I want to test it for a few days and then I will send it to Apple for App Store
review. It should be available by the weekend if Apple keeps up the recent
improvement in review time.
At the risk of spamming, I will post a very brief note here when the
improved version is available.
Many Thanks for the thoughtful comments!
Cheers
Ira
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457501#457501
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| Subject: | Z-13/8 Questions |
Hi Bob,
I'm building a Long-EZ and have a couple of questions on the Z-13/8
architecture.
1. In AEC 12th Ed. Chapter 11-3 you discuss "panel space conservation" and
that in the Z diagrams there's an example that shows "avionics master
switch controls essential bus connection to main bus, selects an emergency
mode essential bus feed directly from battery . . . " I couldn't find any
examples of that, but it did make me consider combining the AUX ALT and
E-BUS ALT FEED switches into one switch using a 2-10 ON-ON-ON switch. Is
there a specific reason that I'm missing that would preclude me from doing
so? My thought is that it would refine my focus if my main alternator goes
haywire, requiring me then to only concern myself with two actual switches
versus three. Plus, there's the added bonus of weight savings and panel
space.
2. I found a forum exchange where you discussed keeping feeds off the
battery bus no greater than 7A (if fused). Otherwise, the feed should have
a pilot controlled disconnect (relay) in local proximity to the bus.
Apparently, I missed taking this into account as I designed my electrical
system, and am now backtracking a bit to correct it. I wanted to clarify
this information since in many of the Z diagrams in the back of the AEC you
show a 10A fuel pump being fed off the battery bus. I also wanted to
confirm this because I have a couple items requiring 10A feeds that I would
like to keep on the battery bus. The first is a fuel pump, which I can
throw in a relay no problem. The other feed, however, is for the nose gear
actuator. On the gear actuator, the manufacturer's schematic shows the
feed coming off the battery bus to a panel mounted 10A circuit breaker
(required by manufacturer). I'm a bit stuck on how to design this,
especially since there's no included information as to whether the gear
actuator feed should be connected off the battery bus at a fused fast-on
tab or off the threaded fuseblock post? I'm trying to keep my electrical
system as safe, simple and elegant as possible, so I would greatly
appreciate your feedback on this.
Regards,
Wade Parton
(building) Long-EZ N916WP
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| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Questions |
At 01:11 PM 6/28/2016, you wrote:
>Hi Bob,
>
>I'm building a Long-EZ and have a couple of
>questions on the Z-13/8 architecture.
>
>1.=C2 In AEC 12th Ed. Chapter 11-3 you discuss
>"panel space conservation" and that in the Z
>diagrams there's an example that shows "avionics
>master switch controls essential (ENDURANCE) bus
>connection to main bus, selects an emergency
>(PLAN-B . . . we don't have emergencies) mode
>essential bus feed directly from battery . . . "
>=C2 I couldn't find any examples of that, but it
>did make me consider combining the AUX ALT and
>E-BUS ALT FEED switches into one switch using a 2-10 ON-ON-ON switch.
Not recommended. It's prudent not to
generate signle points of failure for
the e-bus feeds.
>=C2 Is there a specific reason that I'm missing
>that would preclude me from doing so?=C2 My
>thought is that it would refine my focus if my
>main alternator goes haywire, requiring me then
>to only concern myself with two actual switches
>versus three.=C2 Plus, there's the added bonus of
>weight savings and panel space.
That 'avionics switch' was illustrated to
placate builders deeply steeped in legacy
hangar lore. The original need for an avionics
switch was il-conceived. The REAL need for
any such switch evaporated a few years later
with the incorporation of DO160 design goals
and even less significant with the drop in
avionics power draw paired with more robust
cranking performance of batteries.
None of the z-figures illustrates or suggests
an avionics master switch.
>2.=C2 I found a forum exchange where you
>discussed keeping feeds off the battery bus no
>greater than 7A (if fused). Otherwise, the feed
>should have a pilot controlled disconnect
>(relay) in local proximity to the bus.
>Apparently, I missed taking this into account as
>I designed my electrical system, and am now backtracking a bit to correct
it.
What's on your e-bus? Remember, this is an
ENDURANCE bus . . . crafted and loaded such
that during loss of main alternator, energy
stored in the ship's battery is held in RESERVE
for descent and approach to landing. So if you've
got an SD-8 aux alternator, e-bus loading goals
are on the order of 8A or less. This is done
by operating only those items necessary for
the EN ROUTE phase of flight.
The e-bus first appeared on LongEz aircraft
before Z-13/8. Back then, the design goal was to
reduce EnRoute loads to some value assuring
arrival at airport of intended destination
battery-only. Often these loads added up to
less than 2 amps. Panel lite, nav receiver,
transponder.
With Z-13/8, the nature of e-bus ops changed
dramatically. Now you have an en route budget
on the order of 8A while holding the battery
in reserve. Shoot for 8A or less and don't
worry about the relay.
> I wanted to clarify this information since in
> many of the Z diagrams in the back of the AEC
> you show a 10A fuel pump being fed off the battery bus.
I don't show a fuel pump that DRAWS 10A,
I show a fuel pump that is POWERED through
a feeder protected at 10A.
>=C2 I also wanted to confirm this because I have
>a couple items requiring 10A feeds that I would
>like to keep on the battery bus.=C2 The first is
>a fuel pump, which I can throw in a relay no problem.
What is the current draw for this pump?
>=C2 The other feed, however, is for the nose gear
>actuator.=C2 On the gear actuator, the
>manufacturer's schematic shows the feed coming
>off the battery bus to a panel mounted 10A
>circuit breaker (required by manufacturer).
That is an intermittent load . . . lasting
only seconds. So like your starter that draws
a LOT of current, it only uses a few percent
of the battery's stored energy to get the fires
lit off.
>=C2 I'm a bit stuck on how to design this,
>especially since there's no included information
>as to whether the gear actuator feed should be
>connected off the battery bus at a fused fast-on
>tab or off the threaded fuseblock post?
Your nose gear actuator could draw lots of
current but it's only for a few seconds so the
ENERGY required is minimal. Wire it to a fast-on
location at the battery bus fuse block. Shucks, you can wire
the nose gear up with 12AWG driven by a 20 A fuse
if there's any concern for nuisance tripping the
fuse. I would do some testing on the ground
to put a rough measure on the motor's inrush
characteristics. What kind of information do you
have on the motor used in the gear assembly?
Does it have a lable with a manufacturer's name
and part number?
>=C2 I'm trying to keep my electrical system as
>safe, simple and elegant as possible, so I would
>greatly appreciate your feedback on this.
No problem, it's what we do here. If you're
putting Z-13/8 in an Ez, then tie all your
alternator feeds to the system at the HOT
size of the starter contactor which should
be on the firewall. What size wires are you
running aft for starter feed and ground?
Make us a list of all your fuses, what they
feed and which bus drives them.
Bob . . .
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| Subject: | Bendix King KY97A Tuning Problem |
My Bendix King KY97A VHF Transceiver inner tuner knob skips tuning
adjustments. It is like a gear with some worn or missing teeth. It tunes
properly for a while and then skips repeatedly for a while. The radio
works fine in all other regards.
Has anyone ever experienced this or looked inside to see if there is an
obvious issue? I may open the case when I get a chance.
TIA
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| Subject: | Remove KY97A Replace With SL40 |
As noted in another post, my Bendix King KY97A VHF transceiver has a
tuning problem. I have on hand a working Garmin SL40 VHF transceiver with
tray. If I can't fix the KY97A, I plan to pull the tray and put in the
SL40 tray. Then I plan to make a converter cable to go from the current
input cable to attach to the SL40.
The KY97A has a flat connector with 1-15 on the bottom and A-S on the
top. It is a very simple installation. The SL40 has a 15 pin D connector.
Does anyone have any experience or comments on making such a converter
cable? I already have plans to change out the panel next year to a
totally different system. I'd like to use the SL40 radio on hand for the
interim and minimize the rewiring until I do the full makeover.
Comments? Suggestions?
TIA
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| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Questions |
Bob,
Roger on NOT combining the AUX ALT and E-BUS ALT FEED switches into one switch.
It does make me curious though what would happen if either of those switches
becomes in-op, since there would still be no way to revert to the SD-8 backup
ALT, correct?
>
> What's on your e-bus?
This is what I currently have on my E-BUS:
E-Bus Relay/SD-8 Relay/VReg/OV 0.3A
ElectroAir Electronic Ignition System Coil 0.8A
Electronic Ignition System Controller 0.8A
EFIS GRT HXr - PFD 1.5A
EFIS GRT Mini-X MFD 0.3A
Engine Mgt System Module - GRT 0.2A
TruTrak ADI 0.5A
Trig TT22 Transponder Mode S 0.4A
Trig TY91 Radio - COM1 0.2A
Radenna SkyRadar-DX ADSB Receiver 0.4A
Fuel Computer 0.4A
MGL RTC-2 Clock 0.1A
USB Hub 0.4A
Nose Gear Auto Gear Extension 0.1A
Nav Lights 0.4A
TRIO Autopilot Control Head 0.5A
Trio A/P Servos (~2A transient)
Total nominal draw on E-BUS/SD-8: 7.9 amps (not including transient loads).
Also, The numbers above either came out of the manuals or from discussions with
the manufacturers.
I do currently have an S704-1 Relay wired into place between the battery bus and
E-Bus.
> What is the current draw for this pump?
Just under 5A according to the folks at EFII. According to them, a 16AWG wire
fused at 10A from the battery bus to the panel switch, then 16AWG to the pump
sitting just forward of the firewall would work fine.
>
> What kind of information do you
> have on the motor used in the gear assembly?
> Does it have a lable with a manufacturer's name
> and part number?
The nose gear actuator is under a cover right now that is difficult to get to,
but from my build pictures I found that on the motor cover it states:
> Thomson Saginaw Ball Screw Company, Inc., Performance Pak
And from looking at the manufacturer's website, it looks as if this is the Electrak
10 series motor. The nose gear actuator motor is actually part of the EZNoseLift
electric nose gear system. The purpose for the 10A CB is that in a
fiberglass plane like the Long-EZ it offers some protection if the up-travel microswitch
fails and the nose gear continues to travel up into the nose wheel
well. After some minor crushing the 10A CB is designed to pop and thus save the
rest of nose from any further damage. I checked with the manufacturer and
he recommended running a 16-AWG wire from the battery bus to the 10CB on the panel.
> What size wires are you
> running aft for starter feed and ground?
Planning on using the Super-4-CCA copper clad aluminum. This was recommended to
me by a number of EZ drivers that are currently using it and are quite happy
with it.
I'll work on compiling that list of fuses, feeds and busses.
Thanks Bob!
-Wade
--------
Airdog
Wade Parton
Building Long-EZ 916WP
www.longezpush.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457516#457516
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| Subject: | Re: Remove KY97A Replace With SL40 |
> I'd like to use the SL40 radio on hand for the
>interim and minimize the rewiring until I do the full makeover.
>Comments? Suggestions?
Can probably be done. I have the connectors
and pin-outs. It would be useful to know
which pins are populated in the KY97 connector.
Don't need functionality, just the location.
I can sketch the wiring and send you connectors.
Bob . . .
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| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Questions |
At 06:17 PM 6/28/2016, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>Roger on NOT combining the AUX ALT and E-BUS ALT FEED switches into
>one switch. It does make me curious though what would happen if
>either of those switches becomes in-op, since there would still be
>no way to revert to the SD-8 backup ALT, correct?
Not at all. Recall that the Plan-B for inop main
alternator is . . .
Ebus Alt Feed Switch . . . closed.
Aux alternator Switch . . . ON
Main alternator/battery contactor switch . . . . OPEN
This series of actions supports the e-bus
DIRECTLY from the battery, supports the battery
with 8A of engine driven energy, relieves the
system of parasitic battery contactor loads and
potentially parasitic alternator field loads.
The main bus goes dark.
This DOES not preclude the pilot from re-closing
the battery contactor to bring the main bus back
up . . . which brings the e-bus up as well through
the normal feed diode.
But keep in mind that ONE failure is rare,
in the interval defined by fuel aboard for engine
endurance. DUAL failures are exceedingly rare.
Hence, there are NO single failures of Z-13/8
that put the pilot in an uncomfortable condition.
Bob . . .
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| Subject: | KX155 alternative |
Now that Bendix King have stopped making parts for this radio, especially the display,
any advice concerning maintenance options or replacements? One of mine
was rehab'd so it works well but the other is starting to miss segments. Haven't
pulled it yet to try burnishing the zebra contacts.
I just love obsolescence.
Jim Baker
405 426 5377
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| Subject: | Re: KX155 alternative |
If it's 12v, and it has a glideslope receiver, and you decide to part it out, let
me know...
On Jun 28, 2016, at 21:56, Jim Baker <jimbaker@npacc.net> wrote:
Now that Bendix King have stopped making parts for this radio, especially the display,
any advice concerning maintenance options or replacements? One of mine
was rehab'd so it works well but the other is starting to miss segments. Haven't
pulled it yet to try burnishing the zebra contacts.
I just love obsolescence.
Jim Baker
405 426 5377
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| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Questions |
>
>This is what I currently have on my E-BUS:
>E-Bus Relay/SD-8 Relay/VReg/OV 0.3A
>ElectroAir Electronic Ignition System Coil 0.8A
>Electronic Ignition System Controller 0.8A
>EFIS GRT HXr - PFD 1.5A
>EFIS GRT Mini-X MFD 0.3A
>Engine Mgt System Module - GRT 0.2A
>TruTrak ADI 0.5A
>Trig TT22 Transponder Mode S 0.4A
>Trig TY91 Radio - COM1 0.2A
>Radenna SkyRadar-DX ADSB Receiver 0.4A
>Fuel Computer 0.4A
>MGL RTC-2 Clock 0.1A
>USB Hub 0.4A
>Nose Gear Auto Gear Extension 0.1A
>Nav Lights 0.4A
>TRIO Autopilot Control Head 0.5A
> Trio A/P Servos (~2A transient)
>
>Total nominal draw on E-BUS/SD-8: 7.9 amps (not including transient loads).
Okay, looks like the SD8 is good
>Also, The numbers above either came out of the manuals or from
>discussions with the manufacturers.
>
>I do currently have an S704-1 Relay wired into place between the
>battery bus and E-Bus.
that could go away . . .
> > What is the current draw for this pump?
>
>Just under 5A according to the folks at EFII. According to them, a
>16AWG wire fused at 10A from the battery bus to the panel switch,
>then 16AWG to the pump sitting just forward of the firewall would work fine.
Is this a back up pump or does it run all the time?
> > Thomson Saginaw Ball Screw Company, Inc., Performance Pak
> And from looking at the manufacturer's website, it looks as if
> this is the Electrak 10 series motor. The nose gear actuator motor
> is actually part of the EZNoseLift electric nose gear system. The
> purpose for the 10A CB is that in a fiberglass plane like the
> Long-EZ it offers some protection if the up-travel microswitch
> fails and the nose gear continues to travel up into the nose wheel
> well. After some minor crushing the 10A CB is designed to pop and
> thus save the rest of nose from any further damage. I checked with
> the manufacturer and he recommended running a 16-AWG wire from the
> battery bus to the 10CB on the panel.
Hmmmm . . . IVO Props do a similar thing to
manage the stalled motor condition . . . not
very sanitary. If these are ball-screw actuators,
theres is potential for large forces on
the screw as a product of both stall torque and
dynamic torque when bringing the rotating armature
mass to an abrupt halt.
Have there been instances of limit switch failure?
> > What size wires are you
> > running aft for starter feed and ground?
>
>Planning on using the Super-4-CCA copper clad aluminum. This was
>recommended to me by a number of EZ drivers that are currently using
>it and are quite happy with it.
>
>I'll work on compiling that list of fuses, feeds and busses.
Looking forward to it . . .
Bob . . .
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| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Questions |
Bob,
I'm glad I asked the question!
> Not at all. Recall that the Plan-B for inop main
> alternator is . . .
>
> Ebus Alt Feed Switch . . . closed.
>
> Aux alternator Switch . . . ON
>
> Main alternator/battery contactor switch . . . . OPEN
For some reason I had this process exactly reversed... some vital info to know
right there!
Also good to know on the relay between the battery bus and E-bus: I'll remove it.
>
> Is this a back up pump or does it run all the time?
It's a back up pump to the engine driven fuel pump. It's only on during takeoffs
and landings, and as a backup if the mechanical fuel pump croaks.
>
> Have there been instances of limit switch failure?
I haven't heard of any limit switch failures, and I've been working this project
for over 5 years. I did get into the manual and here's the warning, which shows
that a failure of the micro-switch is protected more by the mechanical configuration
of the actuator, in conjunction with a CB, than any crunching of fiberglass.
Forgive my earlier dramatic paraphrasing on how this thing works:
"Warning:
The actuator is capable of 3000 lbs. of straight line lifting force that
will cause damage and injury even when protected by the slip clutch
and the circuit breaker. In case of micro switch failure or
misadjustment, the over travel in the up position is about .15 at the
actuator. The internal rubber shock cushion will absorb this and the
actuator will reach its mechanical limit and pop the breaker. This
feature will protect the aircraft structure from damage."
Thanks again Bob!
Regards,
-Wade
--------
Airdog
Wade Parton
Building Long-EZ 916WP
www.longezpush.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457522#457522
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| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Questions |
Hi Bob
Isn't 'closed' - 'ON' --- (and of course 'open' being 'OFF')
You used both 'styles' or am I wrong
John
Sent from my iPad
----x--O--x----
> On 29 Jun 2016, at 02:09 am, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroe
lectric.com> wrote:
>
> At 06:17 PM 6/28/2016, you wrote:
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> Roger on NOT combining the AUX ALT and E-BUS ALT FEED switches into one s
witch. It does make me curious though what would happen if either of those s
witches becomes in-op, since there would still be no way to revert to the SD
-8 backup ALT, correct?
>
> Not at all. Recall that the Plan-B for inop main
> alternator is . . .
>
> Ebus Alt Feed Switch . . . closed.
>
> Aux alternator Switch . . . ON
>
> Main alternator/battery contactor switch . . . . OPEN
>
> This series of actions supports the e-bus
> DIRECTLY from the battery, supports the battery
> with 8A of engine driven energy, relieves the
> system of parasitic battery contactor loads and
> potentially parasitic alternator field loads.
> The main bus goes dark.
>
> This DOES not preclude the pilot from re-closing
> the battery contactor to bring the main bus back
> up . . . which brings the e-bus up as well through
> the normal feed diode.
>
> But keep in mind that ONE failure is rare,
> in the interval defined by fuel aboard for engine
> endurance. DUAL failures are exceedingly rare.
>
> Hence, there are NO single failures of Z-13/8
> that put the pilot in an uncomfortable condition.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bob . . .
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