---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 07/02/16: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:33 AM - Re: Re: Hypothetical Battery Contactor Failure (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 06:58 AM - Re: Re: Hypothetical Battery Contactor Failure (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 07:47 AM - Switch wiring (Carlos Trigo) 4. 08:39 AM - Switch wiring (Carlos Trigo) 5. 09:12 AM - Re: Switch wiring (Werner Schneider) 6. 09:28 AM - Re: Switch wiring (Eric Page) 7. 10:06 AM - Re: Switch wiring (Eric Page) 8. 10:38 AM - Re: Switch wiring (user9253) 9. 01:00 PM - Re: Switch wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 05:38 PM - z-13/8 questions (Ken Ryan) 11. 07:16 PM - Re: Z-13/8 Questions (user9253) 12. 07:43 PM - Re: Re: Z-13/8 Questions (Ken Ryan) 13. 09:18 PM - Non-Working Radio Help Needed (William Hunter) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:26 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Hypothetical Battery Contactor Failure At 10:48 AM 7/1/2016, you wrote: > > >[quote="nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect"]At 08:13 AM 6/30/2016, you wrote: > > > > > In the mean time, as long > > as you don't hit the alternator with a really BIG load > > (which few system are capable of doing anyhow), the > > modern alternator runs self-excited and benefits immeasurably > > from battery presence with respect to noise. > > >Just to clarify, did you really mean "benefits immeasurably"? I >think maybe the opposite. > >Immeasurable: Too large, extensive or extreme to measure. I've been thinking that word described an unquantifiable entity; impossible to express in terms of quantity for any reason. In fact, I've learned that it refers not to generally unknowable numbers but only to nebulously large numbers. I can go to bed tonight knowing something I did not know this morning . . . it's a good day. Thanks for the heads-up! Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:57 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Hypothetical Battery Contactor Failure At 04:53 PM 7/1/2016, you wrote: > > >Right, and many believe that a battery DOES provide great benefit >with respect to buffering electrical noise, so thought it would be >important to clarify That Bob does not believe that to be the case. It's easily demonstrated. I've made numerous measurements on vehicles and on the bench that show how the fully charged battery becomes chemically 'disconnected' from its charging source. I.e. its influence on minor wiggles (noise) is diminished to insignificance. Yes, during alternator runaway the battery becomes the major 'load' that prevents an predictable rise in bus voltage to 100 volts or more. An during high-inrush events, the alternator's momentary overload or slow dynamics in voltage regulation will also be mitigated by the battery's ability to dump energy back into the system during the transient. But for the itty-bitty wiggles we call noise . . . excursions in hundreds of millivolts over a broad range of frequencies, the battery offers no significant 'filtering' of these events. The new test bench taking shape in my shop is fitted with a large bonding surface (copper clad top), lots of 120 vac outlets, and a 2hp variable speed drive. The bench is a shrine to Lord Kelvin. We will endeavor to discover all the operating characteristics of various components down to every measurable detail with particular emphasis regulation stability and efficiency. I'll repeat the experiments that speak to the battery's filtering qualities. The cool thing is that we can document and publish significant findings. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:35 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Switch wiring From: Carlos Trigo Guys This switch is model LT-2561-601-012 from Carling Technologies, which is a DPDT switch w ith illuminated lever tip. I know that the 2 sets of 3 contacts on each side are the DPDT contacts, so n o doubt about their wiring. Now about the other 2 middle contacts, which are for the tip illumination, h ow are they wired? Thanks Carlos ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:39:49 AM PST US From: "Carlos Trigo" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Switch wiring Guys The switch in the attached images is model LT-2561-601-012 from Carling Technologies, which is a DPDT switch with illuminated lever tip. I know that the 2 sets of contacts on each side are the DPDT contacts, so n o doubt about their wiring. Now about the other 2 middle contacts, which are for the LED tip illumination, how are they wired? Thanks Carlos --- Este e-mail foi verificado em termos de v=C3=ADrus pelo software antiv=C3 =ADrus Avast. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:12:35 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch wiring From: Werner Schneider Carlos there are some pictures on google for boats: https://www.fpmarine.com/Articles.asp?ID=245 On 02.07.2016 16:46, Carlos Trigo wrote: > > is model LT-2561-601-012 from Carling Technologies, which is a DPDT switch with illuminated lever tip. > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:28:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch wiring From: Eric Page Carlos, The Carling datasheet for this switch... http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/65/LT-Series_Details___COS-275734.pdf ...is curiously silent on terminal connections. I can only conceive of one way to connect it: as you said, the terminals down each side are the switch contacts, with the center terminal common in each circuit. +12V is connected to the common terminals and switched to the terminals on the corners. My guess is that +12V is also switched to the lamp internally, and the upper and lower middle terminals would be connected to ground for illumination in each toggle position. You would only ground the side you want to light up, or both if you want illumination in both ON positions. This would allow you to control the switch illumination by grounding it through another switch elsewhere; say, a limit switch. If the switch were used to control flaps, for example, the toggle would be lit while flaps are moving, and extinguish when they reach the limit switch, breaking the bulb's ground path. You may find that the lamp operates from only one of the +12V common terminals but not the other, or that each toggle position illuminates from a different common terminal. This would be done to maintain separation between the two SPDT circuits that make up the DPDT switch. A quick bench test would confirm or refute my hypothesis. If you don't have a bench power supply handy, a 9V battery should suffice to light the toggle's bulb. Or even an ohmmeter set to test continuity should work through an incandescent bulb. Eric > On Jul 2, 2016, at 7:46 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote: > Guys > > This switch > > > > > is model LT-2561-601-012 from Carling Technologies, which is a DPDT switch with illuminated lever tip. > > I know that the 2 sets of 3 contacts on each side are the DPDT contacts, so no doubt about their wiring. Now about the other 2 middle contacts, which are for the tip illumination, how are they wired? > > Thanks > Carlos ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:06:01 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch wiring From: Eric Page Well, I got that wrong! Good find, Werner. Eric do not archive > On Jul 2, 2016, at 9:11 AM, Werner Schneider wrote: > Carlos there are some pictures on google for boats: > > https://www.fpmarine.com/Articles.asp?ID=245 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:38:47 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Switch wiring From: "user9253" You could try emailing team2@carlingtech.com for advice. The two extra terminals could power the lamp independent of the switch mechanism. Then it would be up to the installer to add jumper wires. The spec sheet says, Independent lamp is Standard, dependent lamp is available. Other than having an internal lamp, the switch could operate exactly like any other DPDT switch. For switching higher voltages, a separate 12 volt supply would be needed for the lamp. The lamp might be located in a fixed position and shines through fiber optics in the actuator lever. This is all guessing on my part. I like Eric's ohmmeter or 9 volt battery suggestion. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457650#457650 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:00:39 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch wiring At 10:34 AM 7/2/2016, you wrote: >Guys > >The switch in the attached images is model LT-2561-601-012 from Carling >Technologies, which is a DPDT switch with illuminated lever tip. >I know that the 2 sets of contacts on each side are the DPDT contacts, so no >doubt about their wiring. >Now about the other 2 middle contacts, which are for the LED tip >illumination, how are they wired? Here's the carling data sheet on that series of switches. http://tinyurl.com/jda6zop Looking at an exerpt we see Emacs! Your LT2561 is two pole, three position on-off-on with .25" quick connects, satin chrome handle, red display in all three positions and a 12 volt incandescent lamp (so you don't have to worry about polarity). Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:38:44 PM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: AeroElectric-List: z-13/8 questions Regarding drawing Z-13/8 ... 1. Why is there a 30 amp inline fuse on the 14 gauge wire coming from the 8 amp dynamo? 2. Why doesn't the 4AWG cable connect to the battery side of the battery contactor? Thanks, Ken Ryan ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:08 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z-13/8 Questions From: "user9253" If the over-voltage module shorts out, it is desired that the 2 amp circuit breaker trip before the fuse blows. A larger size fuse will take longer to blow. There is a 4 awg wire connected to the battery side of the battery contactor. I do not understand the question. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457664#457664 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:27 PM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z-13/8 Questions Thanks Joe. I was thinking 30 amps was too high for 14 gauge but I now see that it's not. The other question is why not run the big cable to the starter from the battery side of the contactor? That way the engine could be started in the event of battery contactor failure. Is it because cutting current to that wire when the contactor is turned off is considered more important than being able to start the engine if the contactor fails? That would make sense I guess for forced landings, etc. But not for getting maximum voltage to the starter. The reason I ask is because the Rotax 914 installation manual shows the starter wire going to the battery side of the battery contactor. And it does seem like it would make sense to maximize voltage getting to the starter. On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 6:14 PM, user9253 wrote: > > If the over-voltage module shorts out, it is desired that the 2 amp > circuit breaker trip before the fuse blows. A larger size fuse will take > longer to blow. > > There is a 4 awg wire connected to the battery side of the battery > contactor. I do not understand the question. > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457664#457664 > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:23 PM PST US From: "William Hunter" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Non-Working Radio Help Needed Hi All, Can you all please help a cyber friend with a second King radio that is no longer working. It was working fine and now all of a sudden it is no longer working. He has two radios however they are not identical radios so he cannot swap them to see if the problem follows. Here is his latest report: ---------------------------COPY----------------------- I tried a few things and here are what I found. The antenna is confirmed to be working. The radio doesn't work on either receiving or transmitting. However, when I pushed the push-to-talk, the 'T' on the radio display did show up so it tried to transmit. When I used a handheld to detect the transmission, the handheld didn't receive anything when the radio tried to transmit. (The same handheld can be heard when I switched to the working radio. Besides the handheld's indicator light turned to green when the working radio was transmitting.) In the headset, I can hear "static noise" from the radio when the volume was turned up. When I pulled the volume button out for "pull to test", the static noise is loud. I removed the radio from the panel. The connectors looked clean but I cleaned the connectors using rubbing alcohol anyway which didn't help. The model is Bendix/King KX-155 (P/N 069-1024-42). What else I can try? .. Cheers!!! 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