Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:16 AM - Re: Dead battery (Bill Watson)
2. 08:38 AM - Re: EXPBUS Circuit Failure (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 09:23 AM - dielectric grease vs conductive grease: when and where (Ken Ryan)
4. 09:50 AM - Re: Dead battery (Alec Myers)
5. 10:18 AM - Re: dielectric grease vs conductive grease: when and where (user9253)
6. 10:39 AM - Re: dielectric grease vs conductive grease: when and where (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 10:45 AM - Re: Dead battery (John Morgensen)
8. 11:29 AM - Re: Dead battery (Bill Watson)
9. 02:14 PM - Re: Dead battery (user9253)
10. 04:58 PM - Re: Dead battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 04:58 PM - Re: Dead battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 06:22 PM - Re: Dead battery (John Morgensen)
13. 06:39 PM - Re: Dead battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Dead battery |
And I can confirm, that if your system charging voltage is 13.5, you
will kill your battery in amazing short order.
You have to get it up to 14.5 or so. In the mean time, charge it on a
proper charger (for AGM Batts) between flights.
Bill "killer of at least 3" Watson
On 7/6/2016 1:53 AM, Peter Pengilly wrote:
>
> Agree, charging voltage should be more like 14.2 to 14.5 v, especially
> for an Odessey type battery.
>
>
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: EXPBUS Circuit Failure |
> Apparently the one circuit/breaker was dropping out with any sort
> of load on it. Not sure why, but I have fixed it by wiring an
> inline fuse to the devices, and disconnecting from the output on the EXPBUS.
I don't know what the failure modes are for the
polyfuses . . . we looked at them on two separate
occasions at Beech and just couldn't figure out
how to integrate them into system wiring . . .
Had the idea progressed any further, we proably
would have done some endurance/halt testing on
the devices to see if their weaknesses would
present . . . but given the service life demonstrated
on your airplane, I'm not sure we could have
'turned that rock over' as a part of preliminary
design studies.
Those polyfuses are widely available parts. If
you choose to identify and replace the one that
went belly up, I can help you find a replacement.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | dielectric grease vs conductive grease: when and where |
When and where should electrical connections receive grease? What type of
grease should be used? --Thanks.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Dead battery |
Just to add one more datapoint, I'd been running on a charging voltage of 13
.2 to 13.4 for three years+ on a Comcorde sealed gel battery - and while it h
as been sluggish starts for the past three Canadian winters I don't see any e
vidence that it's damaged, certainly not dead.
On Jul 6, 2016, at 11:15, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com> wrote:
And I can confirm, that if your system charging voltage is 13.5, you will ki
ll your battery in amazing short order.
You have to get it up to 14.5 or so. In the mean time, charge it on a prope
r charger (for AGM Batts) between flights.
Bill "killer of at least 3" Watson
> On 7/6/2016 1:53 AM, Peter Pengilly wrote:
> Agree, charging voltage should be more like 14.2 to 14.5 v, especially for
an Odessey type battery.
>
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| Subject: | Re: dielectric grease vs conductive grease: when and |
where
Everything you ever wanted to know about grease and electrical connections:
http://www.w8ji.com/dielectric_grease_vs_conductive_grease.htm
I have never used conductive grease on electrical connections.
I use dielectric grease on connections exposed to moisture.
Dielectric grease does NOT increase resistance in a connection because it gets
squeezed out from between electrical terminals.
That squeezed out grease prevents air and dirt and water from entering.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457798#457798
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: dielectric grease vs conductive grease: when |
and where
At 11:20 AM 7/6/2016, you wrote:
>When and where should electrical connections receive grease? What
>type of grease should be used? --Thanks.
If the connections are subject to water drip/splash.
Dow Corning DC4 is my favorite.
http://tinyurl.com/hbty5z2
http://tinyurl.com/heqjw25
it's a silicone based grease that doesn't
attack rubbers and plastics. There are,
no doubt, others.
We also used DC4 to 'pot' coax connectors
on towers before wrapping with Scotch 33
tape.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Dead battery |
I have a similar problem with an RV4 that I purchased.
Dead battery.
Discovered field wire broken - repaired.
Field wire is jumpered directly to the alternator output. No fuse, cb,
or switch.
The alternator appears to be internally regulated.
I am seeing no more than 13.5 volts.
With no load at all on the field wire, is that what is keeping the
voltage down?
john
On 7/6/2016 8:15 AM, Bill Watson wrote:
> And I can confirm, that if your system charging voltage is 13.5, you
> will kill your battery in amazing short order.
>
> You have to get it up to 14.5 or so. In the mean time, charge it on a
> proper charger (for AGM Batts) between flights.
>
> Bill "killer of at least 3" Watson
>
> On 7/6/2016 1:53 AM, Peter Pengilly wrote:
>>
>> Agree, charging voltage should be more like 14.2 to 14.5 v,
>> especially for an Odessey type battery.
>>
>>
>
>
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Dead battery |
On 7/6/2016 1:44 PM, John Morgensen wrote:
>
> I have a similar problem with an RV4 that I purchased.
>
> Dead battery.
> Discovered field wire broken - repaired.
> Field wire is jumpered directly to the alternator output. No fuse, cb,
> or switch.
> The alternator appears to be internally regulated.
>
> I am seeing no more than 13.5 volts.
>
> With no load at all on the field wire, is that what is keeping the
> voltage down?
Well, charging at 13.5 will kill an Odyssey AGM battery.
I have a regulator and alternator - my regulator is adjustable and
needed to be set to 14.5 to get a normal charge on my Odysseys.
In general, 13.5 is fine for lead acid batteries.
I'm doing this from memory and experience but the place to look is the
spec sheets.
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Dead battery |
JohnInReno,
A bad connection could be causing low voltage. Check both ends of the wire from
the alternator "B" terminal. Pull hard on the terminals to make sure they are
solid with no corrosion. Also check the engine ground wire. The engine mount
should NOT be part of the ground circuit.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457815#457815
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Dead battery |
>
>I have a regulator and alternator - my regulator is adjustable and
>needed to be set to 14.5 to get a normal charge on my Odysseys.
>
>In general, 13.5 is fine for lead acid batteries.
It has never been fine for any version of a lead-acid
battery. In fact, low voltage warning systems are
generally calibrated to come on at or below 13.5
volts.
Batteries take on energy at 13.8 and above . . . 14.2
plus/minus 0.2 volts has been the lead-acid legacy
setpoint for 70 years or more. B&C sets their regulators
for 14.5 to 14.6 out the door.
An alternator producing 13.5 will not charge a battery,
but it will keep the battery from becoming discharged . . .
assuming it was charged before flight.
If the aircraft is stored with a charger/maintainer
then the engine gets started by a 100% battery. If the
alternator set-point is only 13.5, then the battery
doesn't get replenished . . . until it gets connected
to the charger while parked. Under THIS scenario, the
battery is happy as a clam and will last a really long
time.
Assuming the battery is never supported externally
for energy replenishment the 13.5v bus won't
top off a battery that has just started the engine.
At the same time, the 13.5v bus runs all the electro-
whizzies just fine.
Starting a well tuned engine only takes 3-5% of
a battery's stored energy. So a topped off battery
can be expected to take you flying for 5-10 times
before you notice that it's getting 'weak'. Whacking
it down over a long period of time without replenishment
eventually produces the "dead battery" syndrome . . .
storing a battery in a low state of charge is hard
on its chemistry . . . no matter what kind of lead
acid battery it is.
We were presented with a 13.5v bus on a 182 a few
days ago on a Canadian ship that was suffering the
effects off high resistance joints and a poorly
adjusted regulator. His "dead battery" symptoms
were predictable . . . AGM . . . Flooded . . .
it doesn't matter.
The charging system needs attention to get the
bus up . . . 14.5v is a good target.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Dead battery |
At 12:44 PM 7/6/2016, you wrote:
>Dead battery.
>Discovered field wire broken - repaired.
>Field wire is jumpered directly to the alternator output. No fuse,
>cb, or switch.
>The alternator appears to be internally regulated.
then that is not a 'field' wire . . . it's
a control line that the automotive ECM talks
to for turning the alternator off and on.
>I am seeing no more than 13.5 volts.
>With no load at all on the field wire, is that what is keeping the
>voltage down?
If repairing the CONTROL line did not correct
the problem, then the alternator is broke.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Dead battery |
Sorry if I high-jacked the thread. My problem is a lycoming O-320 and it
bothers me that there is no fuse, cb, or switch on the control wire
going to the alternator.
john
On 7/6/2016 4:57 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 12:44 PM 7/6/2016, you wrote:
>
>> Dead battery.
>
>> Discovered field wire broken - repaired.
>> Field wire is jumpered directly to the alternator output. No fuse,
>> cb, or switch.
>> The alternator appears to be internally regulated.
>
> then that is not a 'field' wire . . . it's
> a control line that the automotive ECM talks
> to for turning the alternator off and on.
>
>> I am seeing no more than 13.5 volts.
>> With no load at all on the field wire, is that what is keeping the
>> voltage down?
>
> If repairing the CONTROL line did not correct
> the problem, then the alternator is broke.
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Dead battery |
At 08:19 PM 7/6/2016, you wrote:
>Sorry if I high-jacked the thread. My problem is a lycoming O-320
>and it bothers me that there is no fuse, cb, or switch on the
>control wire going to the alternator.
This is an OBAM aircraft? Do you have an
alternator on/off switch . . . either as
a separate device -or- split rocker - etc?
It is functionally sufficient to simply
wire the control lead of an internally
regulated alternator direcdtly to the b-lead
or other always-hot source . . . this simply
causes the alternator to come on line as soon
as the engine starts.
At the same time, you have no control over
the alternator . . . if you turn the battery
switch off, the alternator continues to provide
output. If you experience an ov condition, there's
no provisions for bringing the runaway alternator
to heel.
Bob . . .
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