AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sun 07/10/16


Total Messages Posted: 11



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:25 AM - Re: Z-13/8 Questions (MMiller)
     2. 04:26 AM - Electric Fuel Pressure Gauge (Ed Leineweber)
     3. 05:47 AM - Re: Electric Fuel Pressure Gauge (Charlie England)
     4. 08:17 AM - Re: Electric Fuel Pressure Gauge (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     5. 08:37 AM - Short DB-9 shell? (Art Zemon)
     6. 09:00 AM - Re: Short DB-9 shell? (Daniel Hooper)
     7. 09:29 AM - Re: Short DB-9 shell? (Eric Page)
     8. 09:36 AM - Re: Short DB-9 shell? (Bill Putney)
     9. 10:47 AM - Re: Short DB-9 shell? (Art Zemon)
    10. 05:40 PM - Silent-Hektik Regulator (Ken Ryan)
    11. 06:12 PM - Re: Electric Fuel Pressure Gauge (Ed Leineweber)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:25:52 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Z-13/8 Questions
    From: "MMiller" <mmill@optonline.net>
    Charlie, Yes I agree with you, that was my first thought also. But the more I looked at these, the more my option evolved. I lean towards vibration on this version for several reasons; 1). Sample 1of the post 2010 version photos had many failed solder joints but the ultimate failure was lead stress that sheared the gate pin at the body of the SCR. The same logic would suggest " how can this happen in a potted device." 2). This failure mode is nonexistent on the older versions without the gel type potting compound. 3). These don't fail out of the box, they run about 125 hours before failure...on average for these samples. ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote: > > ...The post-2010 failure pics all look like what electronics techs call 'cold solder joints'. ... > ... > I have no reason to doubt your word that the components can move if > embedded in 'soft' potting compound, but.... in my opinion, a properly > soldered joint on a pc board pad like that would not fail due to > vibration. The pad/trace would peal up from the substrate, or the lead > would break, before the solder joint to the lead would fail. Properly > executed solder joints are much stronger than most people think. > > Charlie > > > > > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458033#458033


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:26:08 AM PST US
    From: "Ed Leineweber" <edleine61@gmail.com>
    Subject: Electric Fuel Pressure Gauge
    How does an electric fuel pressure gauge work? Specifically, what power supply must be provided? What amperage? I am installing a Holly brand fuel pressure gauge on the fuel pressure regulator servicing the Bing 94 carburetor on my Rotec R2800 radial engine. The installation will be temporary during the Phase 1 flight test period. My idea is to power the gauge via the 12V accessory (cigarette lighter) outlet. Should this be an adequate power supply? Thanks. Ed Leineweber


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:47:57 AM PST US
    From: Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pressure Gauge
    On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 6:24 AM, Ed Leineweber <edleine61@gmail.com> wrote: > How does an electric fuel pressure gauge work? Specifically, what power > supply must be provided? What amperage? > > > I am installing a Holly brand fuel pressure gauge on the fuel pressure > regulator servicing the Bing 94 carburetor on my Rotec R2800 radial > engine. The installation will be temporary during the Phase 1 flight test > period. My idea is to power the gauge via the 12V accessory (cigarette > lighter) outlet. Should this be an adequate power supply? > > > Thanks. > > > Ed Leineweber > What does the installation guide for the gauge say? If it's a typical off-the-shelf gauge that's sold for installation in cars, then 12V supply would be likely. Current consumption should be insignificant; milliamps rather than amps. Older 'can type' sensors work by pressure moving a diaphragm, which moves the 'wiper' of what amounts to a volume control, varying the voltage to the meter. Newer solid state sensors with 3 wires use a 'strain gauge' in the case. A lot of the solid state sensors expect to be supplied with 5V, but a dedicated gauge would likely supply the reduced voltage to the sensor. Charlie


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:17:03 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pressure Gauge
    At 07:46 AM 7/10/2016, you wrote: >On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 6:24 AM, Ed Leineweber ><<mailto:edleine61@gmail.com>edleine61@gmail.com> wrote: > >How does an electric fuel pressure gauge >work?=C2 Specifically, what power supply must be provided? What amperage? > >=C2 > >I am installing a Holly brand fuel pressure >gauge on the fuel pressure regulator servicing >the Bing 94 carburetor on my Rotec R2800 radial >engine.=C2 The installation will be temporary >during the Phase 1 flight test period.=C2 My idea >is to power the gauge via the 12V accessory >(cigarette lighter) outlet. Should this be an adequate power supply? I believe the vast majority of OEM and after market automotive instruments are of the 'moving magnet' variety. A magnet is mounted to a shaft such that it lies within the effects of two stationary, electromagnets. Energizing electromagnet 1 moves a pointer to one end of the scale, energizing EM2 moves it toward the other end of the scale. Emacs! The position of the pointer is the vector sum of the fields generated by the two electromagnets. Hence, the pointer depicts some ratio of the two energizing currents. The cool thing about this technique is simplicity of manufacture. The pointer doesn't need to have return springs. The magnet can be immersed in a damping fluid that causes it to integrate small fluctuations in the measured current thus giving a steady reading when the signal (like fuel sloshing in a tank) is wiggly. The positioning forces are large meaning that the pointer shaft need not be supported on low-friction bearings . . . often simply stuck through a hole in sheet metal or plastic. http://tinyurl.com/zlsovbe I've just installed a new 'sender' in my truck to replace one that blew a gasket and was leaking oil under 40psi pressure! The sender's specs call for a resistance of 10-180 ohms resistance over a 0 to 150 psi stimulus. http://tinyurl.com/jqh4umt This means that the instrument reading this variable resistance is designed to indicate 0 psi when current thru 10 ohms is impressed on the left-most coil and allowing the pointer to move toward the right-most coil as the resistance goes up to 180 ohms with increasing pressure. My new sender isn't the stock GMC part, so the instrument that came with the sender will have to be installed also. The instructions with this, and most after-market instruments will show three terminals on the back . . . one of which goes to 14v bus, one to ground, the other to the 'sender' which is grounded through its fitting to engine's crankcase. These two-coil instruments are generally limited to a small stroke scale . . . on the order of 90 degrees maximum and their accuracy is generally on the order of 5 to 10 percent of reading. Multi coil insturments can offer longer arcs . . . like speedometers. Further, when driven by software in ECUs, they can be much more accurate . . . perhaps 1-2 percent. In the case of the oil pressure instrument, the 'sender' (transducer) and instrument must be matched to each other. They consume very lo currents from the bus . . . on the order of 50 milliamps. Bob . . .


    Message 5


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    Time: 08:37:39 AM PST US
    From: Art Zemon <art@zemon.name>
    Subject: Short DB-9 shell?
    Folks, Is there such a thing as a short DB-9 shell? The wire from this box is shoved up against the spar, as you can see in this photo https://goo.gl/photos/4K1n8VVHZKYNhioj6 If so, where would I get one? If not, what would you think of installing the connector without the shell but putting a cushion clamp near the box to provide strain relief? Thanks, -- Art Z. -- http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ <http://cheerfulcurmudgeon.com/> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*


    Message 6


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    Time: 09:00:08 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Short DB-9 shell?
    From: Daniel Hooper <enginerdy@gmail.com>
    Maybe something like this will work for you, a side-entry DB9 backshell: Mouser Part #: 706-165X10439XE Manufacturer Part #: 165X10439XE > On Jul 10, 2016, at 10:35 AM, Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote: > > Folks, > > Is there such a thing as a short DB-9 shell? The wire from this box is shoved up against the spar, as you can see in this photo https://goo.gl/photos/4K1n8VVHZKYNhioj6 > > If so, where would I get one? > > If not, what would you think of installing the connector without the shell but putting a cushion clamp near the box to provide strain relief? > > Thanks, > -- Art Z. > > -- > http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ > > "If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel


    Message 7


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    Time: 09:29:57 AM PST US
    From: Eric Page <edpav8r@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Short DB-9 shell?
    He is a link to Digi-Key's in-stock inventory of DB-9 backshells: http://tinyurl.com/jzxpt6z If you see one that looks short enough, just click the PDF icon in the left c olumn to view the datasheet, which should contain a drawing with dimensions. Eric > On Jul 10, 2016, at 11:35 AM, Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote: > Folks, > > Is there such a thing as a short DB-9 shell? The wire from this box is sho ved up against the spar, as you can see in this photo https://goo.gl/photos/ 4K1n8VVHZKYNhioj6 > > If so, where would I get one? > > If not, what would you think of installing the connector without the shell but putting a cushion clamp near the box to provide strain relief? > > Thanks, > -- Art Z. > > -- > http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ > > "If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what a m I? And if not now, when?" Hillel


    Message 8


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    Time: 09:36:49 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Short DB-9 shell?
    From: Bill Putney <billp@wwpc.com>
    Digikey has a lot of 90 exit DB9 shells. Shield and non-shielded, plastic and metal, one piece and two piece. http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/norcomp-inc/981-009-130R121/981-09RCE-ND/1632178 Bill Putney - WB6RFW Chief Engineer KPTZ - Port Townsend, WA PP-SEL/A&P-IA "...you know me to be a very smart man. Don't you think if I were wrong, I'd know it?" -Sheldon Cooper On 7/10/16 8:35 AM, Art Zemon wrote: > Folks, > > Is there such a thing as a short DB-9 shell? The wire from this box is > shoved up against the spar, as you can see in this photo > https://goo.gl/photos/4K1n8VVHZKYNhioj6 > > If so, where would I get one? > > If not, what would you think of installing the connector without the > shell but putting a cushion clamp near the box to provide strain relief? > > Thanks, > -- Art Z. > > -- > http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ <http://cheerfulcurmudgeon.com/> > > /"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, > what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel/


    Message 9


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    Time: 10:47:30 AM PST US
    From: Art Zemon <art@zemon.name>
    Subject: Re: Short DB-9 shell?
    Excellent! Thank you Daniel and Bill. Now that I know what it's called and where to shop, I can buy something that will work. -- Art Z. On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 11:34 AM, Bill Putney <billp@wwpc.com> wrote: > Digikey has a lot of 90=C2=B0 exit DB9 shells. Shield and non-shielded, p lastic > and metal, one piece and two piece. > > > <http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/norcomp-inc/981-009-130R121/981 -09RCE-ND/1632178> > http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/norcomp-inc/981-009-130R121/981- 09RCE-ND/1632178 > > Bill Putney - WB6RFW > Chief Engineer > KPTZ - Port Townsend, WA > > PP-SEL/A&P-IA > > "...you know me to be a very smart man. Don't you think if I were wrong, I'd know it?" -Sheldon Cooper > > > On 7/10/16 8:35 AM, Art Zemon wrote: > > Folks, > > Is there such a thing as a short DB-9 shell? The wire from this box is > shoved up against the spar, as you can see in this photo > https://goo.gl/photos/4K1n8VVHZKYNhioj6 > > If so, where would I get one? > > If not, what would you think of installing the connector without the shel l > but putting a cushion clamp near the box to provide strain relief? > > Thanks, > -- Art Z. > > -- > http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ <http://cheerfulcurmudgeon.com/> > > *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, wha t > am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* > > -- http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ <http://cheerfulcurmudgeon.com/> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*


    Message 10


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    Time: 05:40:08 PM PST US
    From: Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.com>
    Subject: Silent-Hektik Regulator
    Okay, so I've decided I will take Bob's advice and not use the Ducati regulator and instead use the Silent-Hektik. I have a German connection that should be able to get one for me. There are (at least) two questions that I need answered to complete my wiring diagram for starting/charging/fuel pumps. 1. Does the Silent-Hektik need to be disconnected from the battery when the engine is not running, like the Ducati does (to keep from running down the battery). 2. Is there a prohibition (again, like the Ducati) against disconnecting the sensing wire from the bus while the engine is running? I have not been able to find any specific information on this regulator, other than its amp rating and its dimensions. Any help would be appreciated. Ken Ryan


    Message 11


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    Time: 06:12:28 PM PST US
    From: "Ed Leineweber" <edleine61@gmail.com>
    Subject: Electric Fuel Pressure Gauge
    Thanks for the help. It turns out to have been a grounding issue. The information in your post lead me to the answer. Thanks again. Ed Leineweber From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2016 10:16 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Electric Fuel Pressure Gauge At 07:46 AM 7/10/2016, you wrote: On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 6:24 AM, Ed Leineweber <edleine61@gmail.com <mailto:edleine61@gmail.com> > wrote: How does an electric fuel pressure gauge work?=C2 Specifically, what power supply must be provided? What amperage? =C2 I am installing a Holly brand fuel pressure gauge on the fuel pressure regulator servicing the Bing 94 carburetor on my Rotec R2800 radial engine.=C2 The installation will be temporary during the Phase 1 flight test period.=C2 My idea is to power the gauge via the 12V accessory (cigarette lighter) outlet. Should this be an adequate power supply? I believe the vast majority of OEM and after market automotive instruments are of the 'moving magnet' variety. A magnet is mounted to a shaft such that it lies within the effects of two stationary, electromagnets. Energizing electromagnet 1 moves a pointer to one end of the scale, energizing EM2 moves it toward the other end of the scale. The position of the pointer is the vector sum of the fields generated by the two electromagnets. Hence, the pointer depicts some ratio of the two energizing currents. The cool thing about this technique is simplicity of manufacture. The pointer doesn't need to have return springs. The magnet can be immersed in a damping fluid that causes it to integrate small fluctuations in the measured current thus giving a steady reading when the signal (like fuel sloshing in a tank) is wiggly. The positioning forces are large meaning that the pointer shaft need not be supported on low-friction bearings . . . often simply stuck through a hole in sheet metal or plastic. http://tinyurl.com/zlsovbe I've just installed a new 'sender' in my truck to replace one that blew a gasket and was leaking oil under 40psi pressure! The sender's specs call for a resistance of 10-180 ohms resistance over a 0 to 150 psi stimulus. http://tinyurl.com/jqh4umt This means that the instrument reading this variable resistance is designed to indicate 0 psi when current thru 10 ohms is impressed on the left-most coil and allowing the pointer to move toward the right-most coil as the resistance goes up to 180 ohms with increasing pressure. My new sender isn't the stock GMC part, so the instrument that came with the sender will have to be installed also. The instructions with this, and most after-market instruments will show three terminals on the back . . . one of which goes to 14v bus, one to ground, the other to the 'sender' which is grounded through its fitting to engine's crankcase. These two-coil instruments are generally limited to a small stroke scale . . . on the order of 90 degrees maximum and their accuracy is generally on the order of 5 to 10 percent of reading. Multi coil insturments can offer longer arcs . . . like speedometers. Further, when driven by software in ECUs, they can be much more accurate . . . perhaps 1-2 percent. In the case of the oil pressure instrument, the 'sender' (transducer) and instrument must be matched to each other. They consume very lo currents from the bus . . . on the order of 50 milliamps. Bob . . .




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