Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:24 AM - Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? (user9253)
2. 06:17 AM - Re: Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? (Charlie England)
3. 08:16 AM - Re: Transponder antenna (donjohnston)
4. 08:50 AM - Re: Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? (Ken Ryan)
5. 09:49 AM - Re: Re: Transponder antenna (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 09:50 AM - Re: Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 09:53 AM - Re: Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? (ashleysc@broadstripe.net)
8. 10:06 AM - Re: Re: Transponder antenna (ashleysc@broadstripe.net)
9. 10:17 AM - Re: Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 10:21 AM - Re: Re: Transponder antenna (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 10:36 AM - Re: Re: Transponder antenna (William Hunter)
12. 10:53 AM - Re: Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? (Ken Ryan)
13. 11:10 AM - Re: Re: Battery weight (Rob Turk)
14. 11:40 AM - Re: Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? (ashleysc@broadstripe.net)
15. 11:53 AM - Re: Re: Transponder antenna (ashleysc@broadstripe.net)
16. 12:21 PM - Re: Re: Battery weight (ashleysc@broadstripe.net)
17. 12:39 PM - Re: Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? (ashleysc@broadstripe.net)
18. 12:51 PM - Re: Re: Battery weight (Rob Turk)
19. 01:00 PM - Re: Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? (Ken Ryan)
20. 01:06 PM - Re: Re: Battery weight (ashleysc@broadstripe.net)
21. 01:09 PM - Re: Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? (ashleysc@broadstripe.net)
22. 01:56 PM - Re: Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? (Kelly McMullen)
23. 04:00 PM - Re: Transponder antenna (donjohnston)
24. 05:01 PM - Re: Re: Transponder antenna (Bill Maxwell)
25. 05:12 PM - Re: Re: Transponder antenna (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
26. 05:15 PM - Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? (user9253)
27. 05:30 PM - Re: Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? (Ken Ryan)
28. 06:47 PM - Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? (user9253)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? |
Your plan sounds OK to me. Just keep in mind that if the "C" terminal is wired
directly to the main bus, then shutting off the master switch will NOT shut off
the Aux generator. The master switch will only disconnect the battery from
the electrical system. The generator, once enabled, will continue to power the
aircraft. So in an emergency, not only does the master need to be shut off,
but also the aux generator breaker needs to be pulled off.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458231#458231
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? |
You might want to also look at the rated lifetime operations of the
pull-able breaker vs a plain switch or a 'circuit breaker switch'. It's
unlikely any of us would ever wear any of them out in a homebuilt, but
those ratings are at least some indication of expected life. Most breakers
aren't designed for multiple actuations during every use of the 'appliance'
they protect, so their number of rated operations is typically lower than a
switch. Sometimes by a lot.
FWIW...
On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 7:21 AM, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Your plan sounds OK to me. Just keep in mind that if the "C" terminal is
> wired directly to the main bus, then shutting off the master switch will
> NOT shut off the Aux generator. The master switch will only disconnect the
> battery from the electrical system. The generator, once enabled, will
> continue to power the aircraft. So in an emergency, not only does the
> master need to be shut off, but also the aux generator breaker needs to be
> pulled off.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458231#458231
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna |
Take this with a grain of salt...
I was told that because there are two frequencies involved with the transponder
that a ground plane of two different sizes is best. So following that logic,
I created an octagon shaped ground plane. I may have misinterpreted the RST document,
but it works fine.
http://www.velocity-xl.com/blog/2013/11/07/13-99-transponder-antenna-ground-plane/
Steve Kelly wrote:
> -Ground plane, I have room for up to a 16" square ground plane. I am unsure
as to the size and shape. I have read that if it's round it has to be a certain
size, But don't know what that size is. It seems that size doesn't matter
as much if its square or octagonal. Also, should I make ground plane as large
as I have room for?
> The antenna is just the standard post and ball from B&C.
> Would appreciate any feedback, Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458238#458238
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? |
Thanks Joe. I guess it's not ideal but in that respect I think it's the
same as Z-13/8. I hope to have a completed diagram to post pretty soon.
Ken
On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 4:21 AM, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Your plan sounds OK to me. Just keep in mind that if the "C" terminal is
> wired directly to the main bus, then shutting off the master switch will
> NOT shut off the Aux generator. The master switch will only disconnect the
> battery from the electrical system. The generator, once enabled, will
> continue to power the aircraft. So in an emergency, not only does the
> master need to be shut off, but also the aux generator breaker needs to be
> pulled off.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458231#458231
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna |
At 10:15 AM 7/16/2016, you wrote:
>
>Take this with a grain of salt...
>
>I was told that because there are two frequencies involved with the
>transponder that a ground plane of two different sizes is best. So
>following that logic, I created an octagon shaped ground plane. I
>may have misinterpreted the RST document, but it works fine.
>
>http://www.velocity-xl.com/blog/2013/11/07/13-99-transponder-antenna-ground-plane/
This is REALLY fine hair-splitting. The signals using
the transponder antenna are not that far apart. Even
if you had access to a %million$ antenna test range
and equipment, you would be hard pressed to detect
and quantify any improvement in performance for having
crafted an 'optimized' ground plane . . . after all,
the real magic in broader bandwidth performance
has more to do with the shape of the antenna as opposed
to its ground plane.
There are much more expensive transponder antennas
out there that do offer wider band width . . . but
if you bought one and installed it, you wouldn't
observe any difference in system performance. I've
offered similar arguments about going with $higher$
batteries to save weight by asking just how much
the expense will shorten your take-off run, increase
your rate of climb, increase your service ceiling?
One might calculate the differences . . . John Q.
OBAM airplane pilot would be hard pressed to fly
two otherwise identical airplanes and tell us
which one has the super-cool battery installed.
Tony Levere was once known to run stripes of Scotch
Tape over the lines of rivet heads on the skins of
his p-38 race plane . . . with a notion of getting
a few more knots out of the machine . . . intuitively
one can 'see' how this might be useful but the
difference would be hard to go measure. Tony did wins lots
of races with his pride and joy . . . but was Scotch Tape
really the tipping force . . . or did more powerful
influences make the difference? We'll nver know.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? |
At 08:15 AM 7/16/2016, you wrote:
>You might want to also look at the rated lifetime operations of the
>pull-able breaker vs a plain switch or a 'circuit breaker switch'.
>It's unlikely any of us would ever wear any of them out in a
>homebuilt, but those ratings are at least some indication of
>expected life. Most breakers aren't designed for multiple actuations
>during every use of the 'appliance' they protect, so their number of
>rated operations is typically lower than a switch. Sometimes by a lot.
While switches are generally rated in the tens of
thousands of operations, our favorite little breakers
are only rated in mere thousands.
You're not going to wear it out in the life time
of your airplane . . . and even if you did . . .
it should be operated once per flight-cycle in
pre-flight . . . you'll detect the failure for
an easily replaced component.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? |
Hi All;
The rated life of the Tyco W31-X2M1G, which is a toggle switch/circuit brea
ker available from 1 to 50 amps is stated to be equal or greater than 10,00
0 mechanical cycles, or 6,000 cycles at 100% rated load. The push pull type
is similar. Enough for my limited life-span.
Cheers!=C2-=C2- Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland7@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2016 6:15:54 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator?
You might want to also look at the rated lifetime operations of the pull-ab
le breaker vs a plain switch or a 'circuit breaker switch'. It's unlikely a
ny of us would ever wear any of them out in a homebuilt, but those ratings
are at least some indication of expected life. Most breakers aren't designe
d for multiple actuations during every use of the 'appliance' they protect,
so their number of rated operations is typically lower than a switch. Some
times by a lot.
FWIW... =C2-
On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 7:21 AM, user9253 < fransew@gmail.com > wrote:
Your plan sounds OK to me.=C2- Just keep in mind that if the "C" terminal
is wired directly to the main bus, then shutting off the master switch wil
l NOT shut off the Aux generator.=C2- The master switch will only disconn
ect the battery from the electrical system.=C2- The generator, once enabl
ed, will continue to power the aircraft.=C2- So in an emergency, not only
does the master need to be shut off, but also the aux generator breaker ne
eds to be pulled off.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458231#458231
===========
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Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
===========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna |
Hi All;
I'll pose this as a philosophical point, as I am no expert: It would seem,
considering no ground plane is required on a metal aircraft, that the only
consideration is how small can they be made and still function adequately.
In other words, there is no "too big," only "too small." If this is correct
so far, it would behoove us to err to the large side.
Cheers!=C2-=C2- Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2016 9:47:11 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Transponder antenna
At 10:15 AM 7/16/2016, you wrote:
>
Take this with a grain of salt...
I was told that because there are two frequencies involved with the transpo
nder that a ground plane of two different sizes is best.=C2- So following
that logic, I created an octagon shaped ground plane. I may have misinterp
reted the RST document, but it works fine.
http://www.velocity-xl.com/blog/2013/11/07/13-99-transponder-antenna-ground
-plane/
=C2-=C2- This is REALLY fine hair-splitting.=C2- The signals using
=C2-=C2- the transponder antenna are not that far apart. Even
=C2-=C2- if you had access to a %million$ antenna test range
=C2-=C2- and equipment, you would be hard pressed to detect
=C2-=C2- and quantify any improvement in performance for having
=C2-=C2- crafted an 'optimized' ground plane . . . after all,
=C2-=C2- the real magic in broader bandwidth performance
=C2-=C2- has more to do with the shape of the antenna as opposed
=C2-=C2- to its ground plane.
=C2-=C2- There are much more expensive transponder antennas
=C2-=C2- out there that do offer wider band width . . . but
=C2-=C2- if you bought one and installed it, you wouldn't
=C2-=C2- observe any difference in system performance. I've
=C2-=C2- offered similar arguments about going with $higher$
=C2-=C2- batteries to save weight by asking just how much
=C2-=C2- the expense will shorten your take-off run, increase
=C2-=C2- your rate of climb, increase your service ceiling?
=C2-=C2- One might calculate the differences . . . John Q.
=C2-=C2- OBAM airplane pilot would be hard pressed to fly
=C2-=C2- two otherwise identical airplanes and tell us
=C2-=C2- which one has the super-cool battery installed.
=C2-=C2- Tony Levere was once known to run stripes of Scotch
=C2-=C2- Tape over the lines of rivet heads on the skins of
=C2-=C2- his p-38 race plane . . . with a notion of getting
=C2-=C2- a few more knots out of the machine . . . intuitively
=C2-=C2- one can 'see' how this might be useful but the
=C2-=C2- difference would be hard to go measure. Tony did wins lots
=C2-=C2- of races with his pride and joy . . . but was Scotch Tape
=C2-=C2- really the tipping force . . . or did more powerful
=C2-=C2- influences make the difference? We'll nver know.
=C2- Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? |
At 11:52 AM 7/16/2016, you wrote:
>Hi All;
>The rated life of the Tyco W31-X2M1G, which is a toggle
>switch/circuit breaker available from 1 to 50 amps is stated to be
>equal or greater than 10,000 mechanical cycles, or 6,000 cycles at
>100% rated load. The push pull type is similar. Enough for my
>limited life-span.
>Cheers! Stu.
These devices were problematic in the Barons and Bonanzas.
Furhter, their i(squared)T constant is larger than the
legacy, miniature breaker. If you want to use a breaker
upstream of crowbar ov protection, please consider the
miniature, push-pull breakers.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna |
At 12:05 PM 7/16/2016, you wrote:
>Hi All;
>I'll pose this as a philosophical point, as I am no expert: It would
>seem, considering no ground plane is required on a metal aircraft
A ground plane IS required . . . but the airplane IS the ground plane.
>, that the only consideration is how small can they be made and
>still function adequately. In other words, there is no "too big,"
>only "too small." If this is correct so far, it would behoove us to
>err to the large side.
The resonant ground plane on a composite aircraft
is the electrical equivalent of an infinite number
of 'antennas' surrounding the base of the radiating
element. Hence, the minimal ground plane is 'tuned'
to the operating frequency.
Either fabricate a tuned ground plane or go with
metal many times larger than the tuned ground plane.
Erring to the 'large' side by smaller factors
is counter productive.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna |
The belly of a Boeing id a rather large ground plane.
The Dynon Installation Manual was extremely specific about the size of the
ground plane being a minimum size and then increments above that... but the
increments above the minimum were not defined
Bill Hunter
On Jul 16, 2016 10:11 AM, <ashleysc@broadstripe.net> wrote:
> Hi All;
> I'll pose this as a philosophical point, as I am no expert: It would seem,
> considering no ground plane is required on a metal aircraft, that the only
> consideration is how small can they be made and still function adequately.
> In other words, there is no "too big," only "too small." If this is correct
> so far, it would behoove us to err to the large side.
> Cheers! Stu.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
> *To: *aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> *Sent: *Saturday, July 16, 2016 9:47:11 AM
> *Subject: *Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Transponder antenna
>
> At 10:15 AM 7/16/2016, you wrote:
>
> don@velocity-xl.com>
>
> Take this with a grain of salt...
>
> I was told that because there are two frequencies involved with the
> transponder that a ground plane of two different sizes is best. So
> following that logic, I created an octagon shaped ground plane. I may have
> misinterpreted the RST document, but it works fine.
>
>
> http://www.velocity-xl.com/blog/2013/11/07/13-99-transponder-antenna-ground-plane/
>
>
> This is REALLY fine hair-splitting. The signals using
> the transponder antenna are not that far apart. Even
> if you had access to a %million$ antenna test range
> and equipment, you would be hard pressed to detect
> and quantify any improvement in performance for having
> crafted an 'optimized' ground plane . . . after all,
> the real magic in broader bandwidth performance
> has more to do with the shape of the antenna as opposed
> to its ground plane.
>
> There are much more expensive transponder antennas
> out there that do offer wider band width . . . but
> if you bought one and installed it, you wouldn't
> observe any difference in system performance. I've
> offered similar arguments about going with $higher$
> batteries to save weight by asking just how much
> the expense will shorten your take-off run, increase
> your rate of climb, increase your service ceiling?
> One might calculate the differences . . . John Q.
> OBAM airplane pilot would be hard pressed to fly
> two otherwise identical airplanes and tell us
> which one has the super-cool battery installed.
>
>
> Tony Levere was once known to run stripes of Scotch
> Tape over the lines of rivet heads on the skins of
> his p-38 race plane . . . with a notion of getting
> a few more knots out of the machine . . . intuitively
> one can 'see' how this might be useful but the
> difference would be hard to go measure. Tony did wins lots
> of races with his pride and joy . . . but was Scotch Tape
> really the tipping force . . . or did more powerful
> influences make the difference? We'll nver know.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? |
I was hoping to use Klixon 2TC series because I have some in the shop.
Here's a link:
http://www.sensata.com/klixon/circuit-breaker-aircraft-2tc.htm They are
endurance rated:
2500 cycles: 120VAC, 400 Hz inductive
5000 cycles: 120VAC, 400 Hz resistive
2500 cycles: 30VDC inductive
5000 cycles: 30VDC resistive
10,000 cycles: Mechanical, no load
What I have on hand is 4 amp. I think I already asked if it would be okay
to substitute 4 amp for 5 amp and got the "okay."
Just out of curiosity, which of the above would be closest to this
application (connecting and disconnecting the generator and regulator)?
Does it make any difference how this breaker is wired (which terminal is
upstream)? One of the terminals seems to be designated "Line."
Ken
On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 9:16 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 11:52 AM 7/16/2016, you wrote:
>
> Hi All;
> The rated life of the Tyco W31-X2M1G, which is a toggle switch/circuit
> breaker available from 1 to 50 amps is stated to be equal or greater than
> 10,000 mechanical cycles, or 6,000 cycles at 100% rated load. The push pull
> type is similar. Enough for my limited life-span.
> Cheers! Stu.
>
>
> These devices were problematic in the Barons and Bonanzas.
> Furhter, their i(squared)T constant is larger than the
> legacy, miniature breaker. If you want to use a breaker
> upstream of crowbar ov protection, please consider the
> miniature, push-pull breakers.
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Battery weight |
On 7/16/2016 6:47 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> ...I've
> offered similar arguments about going with $higher$
> batteries to save weight by asking just how much
> the expense will shorten your take-off run, increase
> your rate of climb, increase your service ceiling?
On my plane I went from an Oddyssey PC680 to an AeroAkku LFP450D. The
combined weight savings of the lighter battery and mounting materials is
5kg, which equates to 7 liters more fuel at MTOW, which equates to 25
minutes extra range. I do appreciate having that headroom.
Rob
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? |
Hi Bob;
How far back in time is your experience with these devices in Barons and Bo
nanzas? In other words, has there possibly been time for improvement? I kno
w of many in use without complaints.
Cheers!=C2-=C2- Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2016 10:16:18 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: breaker as switch for aux =C2- altern
ator?
At 11:52 AM 7/16/2016, you wrote:
Hi All;
The rated life of the Tyco W31-X2M1G, which is a toggle switch/circuit brea
ker available from 1 to 50 amps is stated to be equal or greater than 10,00
0 mechanical cycles, or 6,000 cycles at 100% rated load. The push pull type
is similar. Enough for my limited life-span.
Cheers!=C2-=C2- Stu.
=C2- These devices were problematic in the Barons and Bonanzas.
=C2- Furhter, their i(squared)T constant is larger than the
=C2- legacy, miniature breaker. If you want to use a breaker
=C2- upstream of crowbar ov protection, please consider the
=C2- miniature, push-pull breakers.
=C2- Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna |
Hi Bob;
Possibly I should have said no additional ground plane is required. I expec
t most understood what I meant. For those who didn't, I offer my apologies.
Concerning the second portion of your comment, I appreciate the distinction
you have made. Either use a tuned ground plane, or one much larger.
Cheers!=C2-=C2- Stu.
PS: I have your manual, and it is invaluable.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2016 10:20:22 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Transponder antenna
At 12:05 PM 7/16/2016, you wrote:
Hi All;
I'll pose this as a philosophical point, as I am no expert: It would seem,
considering no ground plane is required on a metal aircraft
=C2-=C2- A ground plane IS required . . . but the airplane IS the groun
d plane.
<blockquote>
, that the only consideration is how small can they be made and still funct
ion adequately. In other words, there is no "too big," only "too small." If
this is correct so far, it would behoove us to err to the large side.
</blockquote>
=C2-=C2- The resonant ground plane on a composite aircraft
=C2-=C2- is the electrical equivalent of an infinite number
=C2-=C2- of 'antennas' surrounding the base of the radiating
=C2-=C2- element. Hence, the minimal ground plane is 'tuned'
=C2-=C2- to the operating frequency.
=C2-=C2- Either fabricate a tuned ground plane or go with
=C2-=C2- metal many times larger than the tuned ground plane.
=C2-=C2- Erring to the 'large' side by smaller factors
=C2-=C2- is counter productive.
=C2- Bob . . .
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Battery weight |
Hi Rob;
Were you able to buy your aeroakku battery in the USA, and if so where?
Thanks.
Cheers!=C2-=C2- Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Turk" <matronics@rtist.nl>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2016 11:08:42 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery weight
On 7/16/2016 6:47 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
... I've
=C2-=C2- offered similar arguments about going with $higher$
=C2-=C2- batteries to save weight by asking just how much
=C2-=C2- the expense will shorten your take-off run, increase
=C2-=C2- your rate of climb, increase your service ceiling?=C2-
On my plane I went from an Oddyssey PC680 to an AeroAkku LFP450D. The combi
ned weight savings of the lighter battery and mounting materials is 5kg, wh
ich equates to 7 liters more fuel at MTOW, which equates to 25 minutes extr
a range. I do appreciate having that headroom.
Rob
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? |
Hi Ken;
I have not encountered the 2TC. But I looked at the website you listed and
found no mention that it can be used as a switch. If you can grasp the butt
on and pull it out, I suppose it can function as a switch, but it might be
worth checking with the factory. I also don't see a trip indication (white
ring on push button). I would want it to be obvious which CB has tripped.
Cheers!=C2-=C2- Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Ryan" <keninalaska@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2016 10:51:31 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator?
I was hoping to use Klixon 2TC series because I have some in the shop. Here
's a link:=C2- http://www.sensata.com/klixon/circuit-breaker-aircraft-2tc
.htm =C2- They are endurance rated:
2500 cycles: 120VAC, 400 Hz inductive
5000 cycles: 120VAC, 400 Hz resistive
2500 cycles: 30VDC inductive
5000 cycles: 30VDC resistive
10,000 cycles: Mechanical, no load
What I have on hand is 4 amp. I think I already asked if it would be okay t
o substitute 4 amp for 5 amp and got the "okay."=C2-
Just out of curiosity, which of the above would be closest to this applicat
ion (connecting and disconnecting the generator and regulator)?
Does it make any difference how this breaker is wired (which terminal is up
stream)? One of the terminals seems to be designated "Line."
Ken
On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 9:16 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aer
oelectric.com > wrote:
At 11:52 AM 7/16/2016, you wrote:
<blockquote>
Hi All;
The rated life of the Tyco W31-X2M1G, which is a toggle switch/circuit brea
ker available from 1 to 50 amps is stated to be equal or greater than 10,00
0 mechanical cycles, or 6,000 cycles at 100% rated load. The push pull type
is similar. Enough for my limited life-span.
Cheers!=C2-=C2- Stu.
=C2- These devices were problematic in the Barons and Bonanzas.
=C2- Furhter, their i(squared)T constant is larger than the
=C2- legacy, miniature breaker. If you want to use a breaker
=C2- upstream of crowbar ov protection, please consider the
=C2- miniature, push-pull breakers.
=C2- Bob . . .
</blockquote>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Battery weight |
Hi Stu,
I got them from Germany, but that's because I live 'nextdoor' in The
Netherlands.
For USA you can get similar product from EarthX
Best,
Rob
On 7/16/2016 9:17 PM, ashleysc@broadstripe.net wrote:
> Hi Rob;
> Were you able to buy your aeroakku battery in the USA, and if so where?
> Thanks.
> Cheers! Stu.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"Rob Turk" <matronics@rtist.nl>
> *To: *aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> *Sent: *Saturday, July 16, 2016 11:08:42 AM
> *Subject: *Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery weight
>
> On 7/16/2016 6:47 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> ...I've
> offered similar arguments about going with $higher$
> batteries to save weight by asking just how much
> the expense will shorten your take-off run, increase
> your rate of climb, increase your service ceiling?
>
> On my plane I went from an Oddyssey PC680 to an AeroAkku LFP450D. The
> combined weight savings of the lighter battery and mounting materials
> is 5kg, which equates to 7 liters more fuel at MTOW, which equates to
> 25 minutes extra range. I do appreciate having that headroom.
>
> Rob
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? |
Stu, it does have the white ring.
On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 11:35 AM, <ashleysc@broadstripe.net> wrote:
> Hi Ken;
> I have not encountered the 2TC. But I looked at the website you listed and
> found no mention that it can be used as a switch. If you can grasp the
> button and pull it out, I suppose it can function as a switch, but it might
> be worth checking with the factory. I also don't see a trip indication
> (white ring on push button). I would want it to be obvious which CB has
> tripped.
> Cheers! Stu.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Ken Ryan" <keninalaska@gmail.com>
> *To: *aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> *Sent: *Saturday, July 16, 2016 10:51:31 AM
> *Subject: *Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: breaker as switch for aux
> alternator?
>
> I was hoping to use Klixon 2TC series because I have some in the shop.
> Here's a link:
> http://www.sensata.com/klixon/circuit-breaker-aircraft-2tc.htm They are
> endurance rated:
>
> 2500 cycles: 120VAC, 400 Hz inductive
> 5000 cycles: 120VAC, 400 Hz resistive
> 2500 cycles: 30VDC inductive
> 5000 cycles: 30VDC resistive
> 10,000 cycles: Mechanical, no load
>
> What I have on hand is 4 amp. I think I already asked if it would be okay
> to substitute 4 amp for 5 amp and got the "okay."
>
> Just out of curiosity, which of the above would be closest to this
> application (connecting and disconnecting the generator and regulator)?
>
> Does it make any difference how this breaker is wired (which terminal is
> upstream)? One of the terminals seems to be designated "Line."
>
> Ken
>
> On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 9:16 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
>> At 11:52 AM 7/16/2016, you wrote:
>>
>> Hi All;
>> The rated life of the Tyco W31-X2M1G, which is a toggle switch/circuit
>> breaker available from 1 to 50 amps is stated to be equal or greater than
>> 10,000 mechanical cycles, or 6,000 cycles at 100% rated load. The push pull
>> type is similar. Enough for my limited life-span.
>> Cheers! Stu.
>>
>>
>> These devices were problematic in the Barons and Bonanzas.
>> Furhter, their i(squared)T constant is larger than the
>> legacy, miniature breaker. If you want to use a breaker
>> upstream of crowbar ov protection, please consider the
>> miniature, push-pull breakers.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Battery weight |
Hi Rob;
Thanks for the tip.
Cheers!=C2-=C2- Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Turk" <matronics@rtist.nl>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2016 12:50:15 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery weight
Hi Stu,
I got them from Germany, but that's because I live 'nextdoor' in The Nether
lands.
For USA you can get similar product from EarthX
Best,
Rob
On 7/16/2016 9:17 PM, ashleysc@broadstripe.net wrote:
Hi Rob;
Were you able to buy your aeroakku battery in the USA, and if so where?
Thanks.
Cheers!=C2-=C2- Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Turk" <matronics@rtist.nl>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2016 11:08:42 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery weight
On 7/16/2016 6:47 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
<blockquote>
... I've
=C2-=C2- offered similar arguments about going with $higher$
=C2-=C2- batteries to save weight by asking just how much
=C2-=C2- the expense will shorten your take-off run, increase
=C2-=C2- your rate of climb, increase your service ceiling?=C2-
On my plane I went from an Oddyssey PC680 to an AeroAkku LFP450D. The combi
ned weight savings of the lighter battery and mounting materials is 5kg, wh
ich equates to 7 liters more fuel at MTOW, which equates to 25 minutes extr
a range. I do appreciate having that headroom.
Rob
</blockquote>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? |
Hi Ken;
OK; seems like it's the functional equivalent of the switch/circuit breaker
s we all know. A little fewer cycles, but you're not going to outlive it.
Cheers!=C2-=C2- Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Ryan" <keninalaska@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2016 12:57:59 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator?
Stu, it does have the white ring.
On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 11:35 AM, < ashleysc@broadstripe.net > wrote:
Hi Ken;
I have not encountered the 2TC. But I looked at the website you listed and
found no mention that it can be used as a switch. If you can grasp the butt
on and pull it out, I suppose it can function as a switch, but it might be
worth checking with the factory. I also don't see a trip indication (white
ring on push button). I would want it to be obvious which CB has tripped.
Cheers!=C2-=C2- Stu.
From: "Ken Ryan" < keninalaska@gmail.com >
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2016 10:51:31 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator?
I was hoping to use Klixon 2TC series because I have some in the shop. Here
's a link:=C2- http://www.sensata.com/klixon/circuit-breaker-aircraft-2tc
.htm =C2- They are endurance rated:
2500 cycles: 120VAC, 400 Hz inductive
5000 cycles: 120VAC, 400 Hz resistive
2500 cycles: 30VDC inductive
5000 cycles: 30VDC resistive
10,000 cycles: Mechanical, no load
What I have on hand is 4 amp. I think I already asked if it would be okay t
o substitute 4 amp for 5 amp and got the "okay."=C2-
Just out of curiosity, which of the above would be closest to this applicat
ion (connecting and disconnecting the generator and regulator)?
Does it make any difference how this breaker is wired (which terminal is up
stream)? One of the terminals seems to be designated "Line."
Ken
On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 9:16 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aer
oelectric.com > wrote:
<blockquote>
At 11:52 AM 7/16/2016, you wrote:
<blockquote>
Hi All;
The rated life of the Tyco W31-X2M1G, which is a toggle switch/circuit brea
ker available from 1 to 50 amps is stated to be equal or greater than 10,00
0 mechanical cycles, or 6,000 cycles at 100% rated load. The push pull type
is similar. Enough for my limited life-span.
Cheers!=C2-=C2- Stu.
=C2- These devices were problematic in the Barons and Bonanzas.
=C2- Furhter, their i(squared)T constant is larger than the
=C2- legacy, miniature breaker. If you want to use a breaker
=C2- upstream of crowbar ov protection, please consider the
=C2- miniature, push-pull breakers.
=C2- Bob . . .
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? |
While the Beech aircraft did result in an AD, I have heard reports of as
many problems generated by taking things apart and replacing before
failure as those that generated the AD. A lot of other brands used the
exact same units such as Mooney that do not have AD. Don't know if there
is any difference, or just luck of the draw that any failures didn't
catch the FAA attention.
On 7/16/2016 10:16 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 11:52 AM 7/16/2016, you wrote:
>> Hi All;
>> The rated life of the Tyco W31-X2M1G, which is a toggle switch/circuit
>> breaker available from 1 to 50 amps is stated to be equal or greater
>> than 10,000 mechanical cycles, or 6,000 cycles at 100% rated load. The
>> push pull type is similar. Enough for my limited life-span.
>> Cheers! Stu.
>
> These devices were problematic in the Barons and Bonanzas.
> Furhter, their i(squared)T constant is larger than the
> legacy, miniature breaker. If you want to use a breaker
> upstream of crowbar ov protection, please consider the
> miniature, push-pull breakers.
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna |
It cost exactly zero pennies more to create that octagon shaped antenna as opposed
to a round one. And it was significantly easier to cut eight straight lines
as opposed to a single circle. And it works just fine.
So in this particular case, splitting hairs turned out easier, cheaper (time is
money, right?) and maybe a half a hair better.
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote:
> At 10:15 AM 7/16/2016, you wrote:
>
> >
> > Take this with a grain of salt...
> >
> > I was told that because there are two frequencies involved with the transponder
that a ground plane of two different sizes is best. So following that logic,
I created an octagon shaped ground plane. I may have misinterpreted the
RST document, but it works fine.
> >
> > http://www.velocity-xl.com/blog/2013/11/07/13-99-transponder-antenna-ground-plane/ (http://www.velocity-xl.com/blog/2013/11/07/13-99-transponder-antenna-ground-plane/)
>
> This is REALLY fine hair-splitting. The signals using
> the transponder antenna are not that far apart. Even
> if you had access to a %million$ antenna test range
> and equipment, you would be hard pressed to detect
> and quantify any improvement in performance for having
> crafted an 'optimized' ground plane . . . after all,
> the real magic in broader bandwidth performance
> has more to do with the shape of the antenna as opposed
> to its ground plane.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458261#458261
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna |
While it probably only a matter of academic interest, unlikely to
produce any meaningful differences in daily operation, the 2-different
size argument should also apply to the vertical radiating element too.
Bill
On 17/07/2016 1:15 AM, donjohnston wrote:
>
> Take this with a grain of salt...
>
> I was told that because there are two frequencies involved with the transponder
that a ground plane of two different sizes is best. So following that logic,
I created an octagon shaped ground plane. I may have misinterpreted the RST
document, but it works fine.
>
> http://www.velocity-xl.com/blog/2013/11/07/13-99-transponder-antenna-ground-plane/
>
>
> Steve Kelly wrote:
>> -Ground plane, I have room for up to a 16" square ground plane. I am unsure
as to the size and shape. I have read that if it's round it has to be a certain
size, But don't know what that size is. It seems that size doesn't matter
as much if its square or octagonal. Also, should I make ground plane as large
as I have room for?
>> The antenna is just the standard post and ball from B&C.
>> Would appreciate any feedback, Steve
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458238#458238
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna |
At 05:56 PM 7/16/2016, you wrote:
>
>It cost exactly zero pennies more to create that octagon shaped
>antenna as opposed to a round one. And it was significantly easier
>to cut eight straight lines as opposed to a single circle. And it
>works just fine.
>
>So in this particular case, splitting hairs turned out easier,
>cheaper (time is money, right?) and maybe a half a hair better.
A brilliant deduction. Thank you. Let's go
8-sided per the article's suggestion . . . even
if it does not produce the supposed performance
gain. Reduce cost of ownership is a demonstrable
benefit.
Bob . . .
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? |
Assuming the 4 amp breaker protects a relay coil with a current of 1 or 2 tenths
of an amp, I expect that the breaker will last for the mechanical cycle lifetime.
Not only is the current a small fraction of the breaker rating, so is the
voltage less than the 30 VDC rating. The fact that the relay is an inductive
load is not a big factor either because the induced voltage is limited to one
volt by the diode across the coil.
As for the polarity of the breaker, I doubt that it matters. Just in case that
it does matter, connect the line side to the power bus.
The breaker data sheet shows a voltage drop of 0.45 volts at 4 amps. An ATC
fuse drops 0.009 volts at 4 amps according to this chart:
http://tinyurl.com/ATC-Fuse-Chart if I interpreted it correctly.
> Just out of curiosity, which of the above would be closest to this application
(connecting and disconnecting the generator and regulator)?
> Does it make any difference how this breaker is wired (which terminal is upstream)?
One of the terminals seems to be designated "Line."
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458263#458263
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? |
Thanks Joe. I completely missed the voltage drop. That sure seems like a
lot. Is that typical for a breaker? I am using fuses for almost everything.
I think the only breakers I will have are this one for the generator and
another for the alternator field wire.
On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 4:13 PM, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Assuming the 4 amp breaker protects a relay coil with a current of 1 or 2
> tenths of an amp, I expect that the breaker will last for the mechanical
> cycle lifetime. Not only is the current a small fraction of the breaker
> rating, so is the voltage less than the 30 VDC rating. The fact that the
> relay is an inductive load is not a big factor either because the induced
> voltage is limited to one volt by the diode across the coil.
> As for the polarity of the breaker, I doubt that it matters. Just in
> case that it does matter, connect the line side to the power bus.
> The breaker data sheet shows a voltage drop of 0.45 volts at 4 amps. An
> ATC fuse drops 0.009 volts at 4 amps according to this chart:
> http://tinyurl.com/ATC-Fuse-Chart if I interpreted it correctly.
>
>
> > Just out of curiosity, which of the above would be closest to this
> application (connecting and disconnecting the generator and regulator)?
> > Does it make any difference how this breaker is wired (which terminal is
> upstream)? One of the terminals seems to be designated "Line."
>
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458263#458263
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: breaker as switch for aux alternator? |
That voltage drop is at rated current of 4 amps. Since the actual current is only
1 or 2 tenths of an amp, the voltage drop will be negligible.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458266#458266
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