Today's Message Index:
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1. 05:21 AM - Re: Intermittent Battery Failure (Stephen Richards)
2. 05:29 AM - Re: Re: Intermittent Battery Failure (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 05:52 AM - Re: Intermittent Battery Failure (user9253)
4. 06:04 AM - Re: Intermittent Battery Failure (user9253)
5. 06:28 AM - Re: Re: Intermittent Battery Failure (Charlie England)
6. 07:12 AM - Re: Intermittent Battery Failure (rampil)
7. 08:27 AM - Re: Intermittent Battery Failure (user9253)
8. 09:38 AM - Re: Re: Intermittent Battery Failure (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 09:40 AM - Re: Re: Intermittent Battery Failure (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 09:42 AM - Re: Re: Intermittent Battery Failure (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 10:34 AM - Re: Re: Intermittent Battery Failure (Charlie England)
12. 03:51 PM - Re: Intermittent Battery Failure (user9253)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Intermittent Battery Failure |
If you have 4.5v from battery neg terminal to frame with a low load current
you must have a high resistance in connection to battery, ground to framew
ork, or in connecting cable or lugs
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
Sent: =8E21/=8E07/=8E2016 01:44
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Intermittent Battery Failure
The first symptoms appeared a couple of weeks ago. The Dynon D-180 reboote
d during decent when the engine was idling. (My D-180 does not have a back
up battery installed.) It happened again a few days later. My first thoug
ht was that the 6-year-old PC680 battery needed charging. But I dismissed
that theory because the D-180 only needs 10 volts to operate. And the batt
ery always cranked the engine fine. Back on the ground, the battery measu
red near 13 volts. Next theory: Maybe the D-180 is not working right?
I fully charged the battery, removed the charger, and waited a couple of
days before measuring the battery voltage at 13. Just to rule out the batt
ery, I decided to turn on the master switch and landing light (nothing else
) and see how long the battery would last before running down. After turni
ng on the master, I heard an intermittent clicking sound for a few seconds,
then quiet. The landing light did not come on. Using the positive batter
y terminal as a reference point, the voltage on the master contactor small
terminal was 4.5 volts. Maybe a defective master switch? No. The airfram
e also measured 4.5 volts. The negative battery terminal was also at 4.5 v
olts, but only for a couple of seconds. Then the landing light came on and
the battery measured close to 13 volts. I left the landing light on for a
half hour before shutting everything off. The battery measured 12.4 volts
. Maybe there was a bad connection at the battery? I took the M6 battery
bolts out and !
made sure the ring terminals were clean and put it all back together and c
harged the battery. The next day, everything worked and the battery was st
ill close to 13 volts.
Then today I went into the +90 degree F hangar and turned on the master s
witch and landing light. Nothing. The battery voltage varied between 2 an
d 5 volts. The voltage must have gone above that for a few milliseconds be
cause the contactor made a faint click noise periodically.
Of course I will buy a new PC680 battery. I thought the failure mode was
unusual and decided to post about it here. Sometimes the battery was putt
ing out 13 volts and sometimes less than 5 volts. Strange.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458450#458450
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Intermittent Battery Failure |
At 08:34 PM 7/20/2016, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>Does your PO Box accept heavy packages like a battery?
Sure. There is a medium priority mail flat
rate box with inside dims 11 x 8.5 x 5.5
that should hold it.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Intermittent Battery Failure |
> If you have 4.5v from battery neg terminal to frame with a low load current you
must have a high resistance in connection to battery, ground to framework,
or in connecting cable or lugs
> Clive
Clive, You overlooked the part of my post saying that the positive battery terminal
was used as a reference point for the voltmeter tests.
But I appreciate you trying to help.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458471#458471
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| Subject: | Re: Intermittent Battery Failure |
Bob, I had already boxed up the battery with 2" of Styrofoam all around it. The
box is too big for your PO Box. Can I send it to your house instead? I have
the address: 2*9 ***** Lane.
Before boxing it up, I checked the battery voltage once again. It varied between
zero and 12.5. The problem seems to be getting worse. By the time it gets
to you, it might be a completely open circuit. Do you still want me to send
it? I do not know what you can do with it except to cut the case open. I know
that you have many irons in the fire and hate to see you spend time and money
for shipping.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458473#458473
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Intermittent Battery Failure |
Occasional oversize items aren't normally an issue for USPS PO box
subscribers. The clerk just leaves a key in the PO box to a parcel locker,
where the package is placed.
But...
It will likely be cheaper to re-box it in a 'flat rate' priority box like
Bob described, than to pay even Standard Rate shipping on something heavy
like a battery.
Charlie
(USPS Operations Support Specialist in a previous life)
On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 8:04 AM, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Bob, I had already boxed up the battery with 2" of Styrofoam all around
> it. The box is too big for your PO Box. Can I send it to your house
> instead? I have the address: 2*9 ***** Lane.
> Before boxing it up, I checked the battery voltage once again. It
> varied between zero and 12.5. The problem seems to be getting worse. By
> the time it gets to you, it might be a completely open circuit. Do you
> still want me to send it? I do not know what you can do with it except to
> cut the case open. I know that you have many irons in the fire and hate to
> see you spend time and money for shipping.
> Joe
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458473#458473
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Intermittent Battery Failure |
This sure sounds like a classic bad connection in your wiring plant.
Batteries do not generally fail in this manner with wild swings in output (unless
it is a loose connection to multiple electrode plates internally).
When you put your VOM directly to the 680, was it simply by touching the leads
to the contact bolt tops, or was it via an electrically secure connection?
OTOH, six years is pretty long in the tooth for a 680 in an aviation application.
They are cycle-lifetime limited and will slowly reduce their charge holding
capacity. I have changed out my Odessey 680 four times over the 12 years of
service of my Europa.
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458478#458478
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Intermittent Battery Failure |
Thanks Charlie, I misread Bob's post and thought that he was giving the dimensions
of his PO Box. I will use your suggestion.
-
Rampil, the problem can not be the aircraft wiring because I was measuring voltage
directly between the battery terminals. Well actually on the 6mm stainless
steel bolts that screw into the brass battery terminals.
-
Just to be 100 percent sure that I am not seeing things, I set the battery on my
workbench and connected a 50W 12 volt lamp to it. The lamp lit up and the voltage
dropped from 12.85 to 12.3 So now the battery is working fine. I know
that some of you think that the problem could be in the aircraft. But the only
thing that can make battery voltage drop is a very heavy load or short circuit.
I doubt that is case because there was no heat or smoke or sparks.
I am going to hang onto the battery until after OSH, then do some more testing.
The battery is not going back into the airplane.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458485#458485
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Intermittent Battery Failure |
At 08:04 AM 7/21/2016, you wrote:
>
>Bob, I had already boxed up the battery with 2" of Styrofoam all
>around it. The box is too big for your PO Box. Can I send it to
>your house instead? I have the address: 2*9 ***** Lane.
I don't have a mailbox. All mail to a street address
for me defaults to the box. If it's too big, it sits
behind the counter. Send it to the box. No sweat.
> Before boxing it up, I checked the battery voltage once
> again. It varied between zero and 12.5. The problem seems to be
> getting worse. By the time it gets to you, it might be a
> completely open circuit. Do you still want me to send it? I do
> not know what you can do with it except to cut the case open. I
> know that you have many irons in the fire and hate to see you spend
> time and money for shipping.
Education was never cheap . . . yeah . . . I'd like to
have it.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Intermittent Battery Failure |
At 08:26 AM 7/21/2016, you wrote:
>Occasional oversize items aren't normally an
>issue for USPS PO box subscribers. The clerk
>just leaves a key in the PO box to a parcel
>locker, where the package is placed.=C2
>But...
>It will likely be cheaper to re-box it in a
>'flat rate' priority box like Bob described,
>than to pay even Standard Rate shipping on something heavy like a battery.
OH YEAH . . . use the flat rate box. There's no
'practical' weight limit on those boxes. It will
fit in the medium, top load box with a published
weight limit of 70 pounds.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Intermittent Battery Failure |
At 10:23 AM 7/21/2016, you wrote:
>
>Thanks Charlie, I misread Bob's post and thought that he was giving
>the dimensions of his PO Box. I will use your suggestion.
>-
>Rampil, the problem can not be the aircraft wiring because I was
>measuring voltage directly between the battery terminals. Well
>actually on the 6mm stainless steel bolts that screw into the brass
>battery terminals.
>-
>Just to be 100 percent sure that I am not seeing things, I set the
>battery on my workbench and connected a 50W 12 volt lamp to it. The
>lamp lit up and the voltage dropped from 12.85 to 12.3 So now the
>battery is working fine. I know that some of you think that the
>problem could be in the aircraft. But the only thing that can make
>battery voltage drop is a very heavy load or short circuit. I doubt
>that is case because there was no heat or smoke or sparks.
> I am going to hang onto the battery until after OSH, then do some
> more testing. The battery is not going back into the airplane.
Nonetheless, it would be very useful to get
cap/load test data on the battery after being
in service that long.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Intermittent Battery Failure |
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Intermittent Battery Failure |
OK Bob, I will ship the PC680 to you via USPS flat rate box.
This morning I had checked the battery on the workbench and it lit up a 50 watt
lamp and the voltage was 12.3
Late this afternoon I did another test. I measured open circuit voltage of 12.8
VDC. Then I connected the 50W test lamp but it did not light up. The test
lamp wires were clamped between the brass battery terminals and the M6 bolts and
washers, albeit only finger tight, but tight enough to resist the wires pulling
out. The terminals are clean, no corrosion. While the lamp was connected,
I put a voltmeter on the bolt heads: 0.5 volts. While I was holding the meter
probes on the bolts for several seconds, the lamp suddenly came on and the
voltage went up to 12.4 volts. There was no intermittent external connection.
Whatever the problem is, it is internal to the battery. The failure might
be related to ambient temperature. It was cooler this morning and in the upper
80s this afternoon.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458502#458502
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