---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 07/24/16: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:34 AM - Re: connectors explained? (rampil) 2. 02:56 AM - Re: Firewall Wire Pass Through (racerjerry) 3. 06:43 AM - Re: Re: Firewall Wire Pass Through (Jim Baker) 4. 08:37 AM - Re: Re: connectors explained? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 09:27 AM - Re: Re: Firewall Wire Pass Through (William Hunter) 6. 10:24 AM - Re: Connectors explained? (David Josephson) 7. 10:42 AM - Re: Re: Firewall Wire Pass Through (ashleysc@broadstripe.net) 8. 12:41 PM - sizing shared ground wire (Ken Ryan) 9. 01:14 PM - Re: Re: Firewall Wire Pass Through (William Hunter) 10. 01:33 PM - Re: sizing shared ground wire (Bill Putney) 11. 01:36 PM - Re: Re: Firewall Wire Pass Through (Charlie England) 12. 02:41 PM - Re: sizing shared ground wire (Ken Ryan) 13. 03:13 PM - Re: Re: Firewall Wire Pass Through (William Hunter) 14. 03:39 PM - Re: sizing shared ground wire (Charlie England) 15. 03:39 PM - Switch For Thermocouple Wires (William Hunter) 16. 04:09 PM - Re: sizing shared ground wire (Ken Ryan) 17. 04:51 PM - Re: Switch For Thermocouple Wires (Charlie England) 18. 05:41 PM - Re: Switch For Thermocouple Wires (A R Goldman) 19. 05:49 PM - Re: sizing shared ground wire (Bill Putney) 20. 06:30 PM - Re: Re: connectors explained? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:34:23 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: connectors explained? From: "rampil" The wonderful thing about OBAM is that you can do what you think is best! The downside is that, in the specific application space of OBAM aircraft, there is precious little hard data on reliability, engineering tradeoffs, etc. Having said that, I offer my opinion about "connectoring" a Ray Allen trim motor/sensor. Like the majority opinion, I have used minisubDs, roll pin crimp over cheaper folded metal contacts, over soldered contacts. I would use them again in this spot with out hesitation. These connectors do come with tiny screw fastener to retain the male/female but you are asking for trouble in the tail when the self retaining feature is not reliable and you can easily drop the screws, washers and nuts into the fuse. A ty-wrap or friction tape is a good alternative. No way for the molex connectors here. Primarily because an 0.063 contact is just not compatible with the tiny signal wires used by Ray Allen. IMHO solder is a bad choice in this particular spot because of lack of access. Just image the PITA nature of stripping multiple 24 ga wires inside an access panel, then soldering them one by one without melting the adjacent insulation. Much better to put DB-15s on, before installation in the fuselage. -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458608#458608 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:56:40 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Firewall Wire Pass Through From: "racerjerry" Remember that the purpose of a firewall is ..................to keep FIRE out of the cockpit to give you a minute or two to try to get your airplane on the ground and you to a safe place should an engine fire occur. Any firewall penetrations should be minimized. You might consider plugging your rather large openings with sheet metal similar to the firewall material - hopefully stainless steel. Use stainless pop rivets. RTV won't do the job. -------- Jerry King Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458614#458614 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:50 AM PST US From: Jim Baker Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Firewall Wire Pass Through http://www.unifrax.com/products/blankets/fiberfrax-ceramic-fiber-blanket/ Jim Baker 405 426 5377 -----Original Message----- From: racerjerry Sent: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 5:54 Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Firewall Wire Pass Through Remember that the purpose of a firewall is ..................to keep FIRE out of the cockpit to give you a minute or two to try to get your airplane on the ground and you to a safe place should an engine fire occur. Any firewall penetrations should be minimized. You might consider plugging your rather large openings with sheet metal similar to the firewall material - hopefully stainless steel. Use stainless pop rivets. RTV won't do the job. -------- Jerry King Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458614#458614 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:48 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: connectors explained? At 05:27 PM 7/23/2016, you wrote: >Lesser the two main problems with the molex type connectors seem to >be the crimp connection and the corrosion potential of the connectors. >I >I use them somewhat extensively but I try to circumvent these two >problems by the following > >1. Use the proper crimping tool >2. Solder the crimp >3 use heat shrink tubing for strain relief >4 use an antioxidant paste in the connectors >I even use this goo in gold plated (usually flash) pinned connectors >as well as fast -ins None of these things are inherently 'wrong' . . . but consider that AMP Mate-n-Lok (Molex cousins) went into Cessna ship's harnesses since the 60's with none of these 'enhanced' processes. Something we have to keep in mind is that when a company with the stature of AMP, Molex, Ampehnol, et. als. puts out a new technology with the potential for hundreds of millions of wire joinings, they'll have done their homework. Install and use these parts within the limits of their design goals, your risks are exceedingly low. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:27:57 AM PST US From: "William Hunter" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Firewall Wire Pass Through > FWIW, you can duplicate the pricey Spruce kit by buying a stainless grab bar & cutting it about 1-2" out from the flanges (a 2fer). !!!WHOA!!! I certainly came to the right place for advice!!! I just cyber bought a 2fer of stainless steel firewall fire block flanges for $11.72 !!!DELIVERED!!! (cleverly disguised as Moen exposed flange mount stainless steel grab rail) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001U6EI92/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&p sc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER Santa Amazon will show up on Tuesday with my gifts...according to my smartphone calculator app...that is $5.82 each for the stainless steel flanges (ok...plus the cost of the wear and tear and electricity to use my cutoff wheel and a ride on the belt sander). The creativity and "resourcefulness" (read Cheap-Ass-Full-Ness) of the people on this forum is really astounding...I feel right at home!!! Oh...BTW...the stainless steel clamps used to attach the red fire block sleeves are also called "CV Joint Boot Clamps" and four can be purchased DELIVERED for less than 7 bucks https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D4NB4VE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?i e=UTF8&psc=1 The 1.25 ID Aeroquip fire sleeve (I bought 6 inches for each of my DIY "Firewall Penetration Kits" can be purchased from Pegasus Racing delivered for $15.00 (dang...shipping was 8 bucks).... So the grand total for TWO Firewall Penetration Kits is less than 30 BUCKS ($11.72 + $0.18 + $15.00 =$26.92)!!! Still...a bit pricey for my standards but well within the threshold of credit card pain. Well worth the price of admission to this forum!!! THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR HElP!!! .. Cheers!!! Bill Hunter -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of racerjerry Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 2:55 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Firewall Wire Pass Through --> Remember that the purpose of a firewall is ..................to keep FIRE out of the cockpit to give you a minute or two to try to get your airplane on the ground and you to a safe place should an engine fire occur. Any firewall penetrations should be minimized. You might consider plugging your rather large openings with sheet metal similar to the firewall material - hopefully stainless steel. Use stainless pop rivets. RTV won't do the job. -------- Jerry King Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458614#458614 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:24:30 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Connectors explained? From: David Josephson One more thing to keep in mind in the discussion of 062/093 connectors (Molex common, AMP Mate-N-Lok etc.) DO NOT MIX gold and tin. A major manufacturer of audio/broadcast consoles hoped to improve reliability by changing the socket contacts to gold, while leaving the pin contacts tin. Reliability went from bad to worse. The tin socket contacts are made with very high contact pressure, intended to scrape through some of the oxides that accumulate on the tin mating surfaces. The gold ones are made with much less contact pressure, because the high pressure would scrape off the gold. Mixing one contact gold and one tin is a recipe for an intermittent contact. Extending the wires from a trim servo has to be one of the most common FAQs these days. My vote is for solder and shrink (having just done that this week in my plane.) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:42:29 AM PST US From: ashleysc@broadstripe.net Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Firewall Wire Pass Through Hi All; I have used these flanges (for grab rails, not firewalls). They are not too heavy and should do the job nicely. Cheers! Stu. ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Hunter" Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 9:26:31 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Firewall Wire Pass Through > FWIW, you can duplicate the pricey Spruce kit by buying a stainless grab bar & cutting it about 1-2" out from the flanges (a 2fer). !!!WHOA!!! I certainly came to the right place for advice!!! I just cyber bought a 2fer of stainless steel firewall fire block flanges for $11.72 !!!DELIVERED!!! (cleverly disguised as Moen exposed flange mount stainless steel grab rail) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001U6EI92/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&p sc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER Santa Amazon will show up on Tuesday with my gifts...according to my smartphone calculator app...that is $5.82 each for the stainless steel flanges (ok...plus the cost of the wear and tear and electricity to use my cutoff wheel and a ride on the belt sander). The creativity and "resourcefulness" (read Cheap-Ass-Full-Ness) of the people on this forum is really astounding...I feel right at home!!! Oh...BTW...the stainless steel clamps used to attach the red fire block sleeves are also called "CV Joint Boot Clamps" and four can be purchased DELIVERED for less than 7 bucks https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D4NB4VE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?i e=UTF8&psc=1 The 1.25 ID Aeroquip fire sleeve (I bought 6 inches for each of my DIY "Firewall Penetration Kits" can be purchased from Pegasus Racing delivered for $15.00 (dang...shipping was 8 bucks).... So the grand total for TWO Firewall Penetration Kits is less than 30 BUCKS ($11.72 + $0.18 + $15.00 =$26.92)!!! Still...a bit pricey for my standards but well within the threshold of credit card pain. Well worth the price of admission to this forum!!! THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR HElP!!! .. Cheers!!! Bill Hunter -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of racerjerry Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 2:55 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Firewall Wire Pass Through --> Remember that the purpose of a firewall is ..................to keep FIRE out of the cockpit to give you a minute or two to try to get your airplane on the ground and you to a safe place should an engine fire occur. Any firewall penetrations should be minimized. You might consider plugging your rather large openings with sheet metal similar to the firewall material - hopefully stainless steel. Use stainless pop rivets. RTV won't do the job. -------- Jerry King Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458614#458614 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:41:37 PM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: AeroElectric-List: sizing shared ground wire I have a landing/taxi light that share their ground wire. The landing light is rated at 3.5 amps while the taxi is rated at 2.2 amps. It seems that 20 ga. wire would be appropriate for each, but since the ground is shared (and I can foresee operating both lights at the same time) does that mean that the ground wire should be upsized to 18 gauge? Each light is on its own circuit with planned 5 amp fuse protection. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:14:26 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Firewall Wire Pass Through From: William Hunter Thanks Stu!!! Bill Hunter On Jul 24, 2016 11:48 AM, wrote: > > Hi All; > I have used these flanges (for grab rails, not firewalls). They are not > too heavy and should do the job nicely. > Cheers! Stu. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Hunter" > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 9:26:31 AM > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Firewall Wire Pass Through > > billhuntersemail@gmail.com> > > > FWIW, you can duplicate the pricey Spruce kit by buying a stainless grab > bar & cutting it about 1-2" out from the flanges (a 2fer). > > !!!WHOA!!! I certainly came to the right place for advice!!! > > I just cyber bought a 2fer of stainless steel firewall fire block flanges > for $11.72 !!!DELIVERED!!! (cleverly disguised as Moen exposed flange > mount > stainless steel grab rail) > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001U6EI92/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&p > sc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER > > Santa Amazon will show up on Tuesday with my gifts...according to my > smartphone calculator app...that is $5.82 each for the stainless steel > flanges (ok...plus the cost of the wear and tear and electricity to use my > cutoff wheel and a ride on the belt sander). > > The creativity and "resourcefulness" (read Cheap-Ass-Full-Ness) of the > people on this forum is really astounding...I feel right at home!!! > > Oh...BTW...the stainless steel clamps used to attach the red fire block > sleeves are also called "CV Joint Boot Clamps" and four can be purchased > DELIVERED for less than 7 bucks > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D4NB4VE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?i > e=UTF8&psc=1 > > The 1.25 ID Aeroquip fire sleeve (I bought 6 inches for each of my DIY > "Firewall Penetration Kits" can be purchased from Pegasus Racing delivered > for $15.00 (dang...shipping was 8 bucks).... > > So the grand total for TWO Firewall Penetration Kits is less than 30 BUCKS > ($11.72 + $0.18 + $15.00 =$26.92)!!! > > Still...a bit pricey for my standards but well within the threshold of > credit card pain. Well worth the price of admission to this forum!!! > > THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR HElP!!! > > .. > > Cheers!!! > > Bill Hunter > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > racerjerry > Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 2:55 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Firewall Wire Pass Through > > --> > > Remember that the purpose of a firewall is ..................to keep FIRE > out of the cockpit to give you a minute or two to try to get your airplane > on the ground and you to a safe place should an engine fire occur. Any > firewall penetrations should be minimized. You might consider plugging > your rather large openings with sheet metal similar to the firewall > material > - hopefully stainless steel. Use stainless pop rivets. RTV won't do the > job. > > -------- > Jerry King > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458614#458614 > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:33:34 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: sizing shared ground wire From: Bill Putney Ken, wire length is important too. Even if the wire capacity is enough for the amount of current you want to carry, if the wire it long the voltage drop may be unacceptable and require a larger wire. I assume from the values you give these are LED lights so at least you don't have to be concerned about the cold filament current. FAA AC43.13 has some good charts for figuring out wire size for a current and length. Look at Figure 11-2 "Conductor chart, continuous flow" on page 11-30. Since it sounds like you have a fiberglass airplane and you're using wires to return your ground instead of the airframe, you should double the wire length (so you account for the round trip voltage drop). Bill Putney - WB6RFW Chief Engineer KPTZ - Port Townsend, WA PP-SEL/A&P-IA "...you know me to be a very smart man. Don't you think if I were wrong, I'd know it?" -Sheldon Cooper On 7/24/16 12:38 PM, Ken Ryan wrote: > I have a landing/taxi light that share their ground wire. The landing > light is rated at 3.5 amps while the taxi is rated at 2.2 amps. It > seems that 20 ga. wire would be appropriate for each, but since the > ground is shared (and I can foresee operating both lights at the same > time) does that mean that the ground wire should be upsized to 18 > gauge? Each light is on its own circuit with planned 5 amp fuse > protection. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:36:17 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Firewall Wire Pass Through Bill, Stainless worm drive hose clamps are a lot cheaper, and much easier to remove/replace when you make wiring changes. https://www.amazon.com/Worm-Gear-Hose-Clamps/b?ie=UTF8&node=979130011 On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 3:11 PM, William Hunter wrote: > Thanks Stu!!! > > Bill Hunter > > On Jul 24, 2016 11:48 AM, wrote: > >> >> Hi All; >> I have used these flanges (for grab rails, not firewalls). They are not >> too heavy and should do the job nicely. >> Cheers! Stu. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "William Hunter" >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 9:26:31 AM >> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Firewall Wire Pass Through >> >> billhuntersemail@gmail.com> >> >> > FWIW, you can duplicate the pricey Spruce kit by buying a stainless grab >> bar & cutting it about 1-2" out from the flanges (a 2fer). >> >> !!!WHOA!!! I certainly came to the right place for advice!!! >> >> I just cyber bought a 2fer of stainless steel firewall fire block flanges >> for $11.72 !!!DELIVERED!!! (cleverly disguised as Moen exposed flange >> mount >> stainless steel grab rail) >> >> >> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001U6EI92/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&p >> sc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER >> >> >> Santa Amazon will show up on Tuesday with my gifts...according to my >> smartphone calculator app...that is $5.82 each for the stainless steel >> flanges (ok...plus the cost of the wear and tear and electricity to use my >> cutoff wheel and a ride on the belt sander). >> >> The creativity and "resourcefulness" (read Cheap-Ass-Full-Ness) of the >> people on this forum is really astounding...I feel right at home!!! >> >> Oh...BTW...the stainless steel clamps used to attach the red fire block >> sleeves are also called "CV Joint Boot Clamps" and four can be purchased >> DELIVERED for less than 7 bucks >> >> >> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D4NB4VE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?i >> e=UTF8&psc=1 >> >> >> The 1.25 ID Aeroquip fire sleeve (I bought 6 inches for each of my DIY >> "Firewall Penetration Kits" can be purchased from Pegasus Racing delivered >> for $15.00 (dang...shipping was 8 bucks).... >> >> So the grand total for TWO Firewall Penetration Kits is less than 30 BUCKS >> ($11.72 + $0.18 + $15.00 =$26.92)!!! >> >> Still...a bit pricey for my standards but well within the threshold of >> credit card pain. Well worth the price of admission to this forum!!! >> >> THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR HElP!!! >> >> .. >> >> Cheers!!! >> >> Bill Hunter >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> racerjerry >> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 2:55 AM >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Firewall Wire Pass Through >> >> --> >> >> Remember that the purpose of a firewall is ..................to keep FIRE >> out of the cockpit to give you a minute or two to try to get your airplane >> on the ground and you to a safe place should an engine fire occur. Any >> firewall penetrations should be minimized. You might consider plugging >> your rather large openings with sheet metal similar to the firewall >> material >> - hopefully stainless steel. Use stainless pop rivets. RTV won't do the >> job. >> >> -------- >> Jerry King >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458614#458614 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> - >> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >> ========== >> FORUMS - >> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> WIKI - >> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >> ========== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:08 PM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: sizing shared ground wire Bill, the wires are short so voltage drop is not really a concern. The question is more related to amp carrying capacity and the fact that there are two wires for carrying the positive but only one for the negative, and how to handle that situation. On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Bill Putney wrote: > > Ken, wire length is important too. Even if the wire capacity is enough for > the amount of current you want to carry, if the wire it long the voltage > drop may be unacceptable and require a larger wire. I assume from the > values you give these are LED lights so at least you don't have to be > concerned about the cold filament current. > > FAA AC43.13 has some good charts for figuring out wire size for a current > and length. Look at Figure 11-2 "Conductor chart, continuous flow" on page > 11-30. > > Since it sounds like you have a fiberglass airplane and you're using wires > to return your ground instead of the airframe, you should double the wire > length (so you account for the round trip voltage drop). > > Bill Putney - WB6RFW > Chief Engineer > KPTZ - Port Townsend, WA > > PP-SEL/A&P-IA > > "...you know me to be a very smart man. Don't you think if I were wrong, > I'd know it?" -Sheldon Cooper > > On 7/24/16 12:38 PM, Ken Ryan wrote: > >> I have a landing/taxi light that share their ground wire. The landing >> light is rated at 3.5 amps while the taxi is rated at 2.2 amps. It seems >> that 20 ga. wire would be appropriate for each, but since the ground is >> shared (and I can foresee operating both lights at the same time) does that >> mean that the ground wire should be upsized to 18 gauge? Each light is on >> its own circuit with planned 5 amp fuse protection. >> > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:13:45 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Firewall Wire Pass Through From: William Hunter Thanks Charlie... good call!!! Bill Hunter On Jul 24, 2016 2:43 PM, "Charlie England" wrote: > Bill, > > Stainless worm drive hose clamps are a lot cheaper, and much easier to > remove/replace when you make wiring changes. > > https://www.amazon.com/Worm-Gear-Hose-Clamps/b?ie=UTF8&node=979130011 > > > On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 3:11 PM, William Hunter < > billhuntersemail@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Thanks Stu!!! >> >> Bill Hunter >> >> On Jul 24, 2016 11:48 AM, wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi All; >>> I have used these flanges (for grab rails, not firewalls). They are not >>> too heavy and should do the job nicely. >>> Cheers! Stu. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "William Hunter" >>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >>> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 9:26:31 AM >>> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Firewall Wire Pass Through >>> >>> billhuntersemail@gmail.com> >>> >>> > FWIW, you can duplicate the pricey Spruce kit by buying a stainless >>> grab >>> bar & cutting it about 1-2" out from the flanges (a 2fer). >>> >>> !!!WHOA!!! I certainly came to the right place for advice!!! >>> >>> I just cyber bought a 2fer of stainless steel firewall fire block flanges >>> for $11.72 !!!DELIVERED!!! (cleverly disguised as Moen exposed flange >>> mount >>> stainless steel grab rail) >>> >>> >>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001U6EI92/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&p >>> sc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER >>> >>> >>> Santa Amazon will show up on Tuesday with my gifts...according to my >>> smartphone calculator app...that is $5.82 each for the stainless steel >>> flanges (ok...plus the cost of the wear and tear and electricity to use >>> my >>> cutoff wheel and a ride on the belt sander). >>> >>> The creativity and "resourcefulness" (read Cheap-Ass-Full-Ness) of the >>> people on this forum is really astounding...I feel right at home!!! >>> >>> Oh...BTW...the stainless steel clamps used to attach the red fire block >>> sleeves are also called "CV Joint Boot Clamps" and four can be purchased >>> DELIVERED for less than 7 bucks >>> >>> >>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D4NB4VE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?i >>> e=UTF8&psc=1 >>> >>> >>> The 1.25 ID Aeroquip fire sleeve (I bought 6 inches for each of my DIY >>> "Firewall Penetration Kits" can be purchased from Pegasus Racing >>> delivered >>> for $15.00 (dang...shipping was 8 bucks).... >>> >>> So the grand total for TWO Firewall Penetration Kits is less than 30 >>> BUCKS >>> ($11.72 + $0.18 + $15.00 =$26.92)!!! >>> >>> Still...a bit pricey for my standards but well within the threshold of >>> credit card pain. Well worth the price of admission to this forum!!! >>> >>> THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR HElP!!! >>> >>> .. >>> >>> Cheers!!! >>> >>> Bill Hunter >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >>> racerjerry >>> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 2:55 AM >>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Firewall Wire Pass Through >>> >>> --> >>> >>> Remember that the purpose of a firewall is ..................to keep FIRE >>> out of the cockpit to give you a minute or two to try to get your >>> airplane >>> on the ground and you to a safe place should an engine fire occur. Any >>> firewall penetrations should be minimized. You might consider plugging >>> your rather large openings with sheet metal similar to the firewall >>> material >>> - hopefully stainless steel. Use stainless pop rivets. RTV won't do the >>> job. >>> >>> -------- >>> Jerry King >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458614#458614 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ========== >>> - >>> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> >>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >>> ========== >>> FORUMS - >>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >>> ========== >>> WIKI - >>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >>> ========== >>> b Site - >>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> ========== >>> >>> >>> >>> > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:39:38 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: sizing shared ground wire Size for total current on the ground path (sum of all load currents) using your wire capacity chart, but protect (fuse) on the + side for each smaller wire, just as you would if running separate grounds. On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 4:35 PM, Ken Ryan wrote: > Bill, the wires are short so voltage drop is not really a concern. The > question is more related to amp carrying capacity and the fact that there > are two wires for carrying the positive but only one for the negative, and > how to handle that situation. > > On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Bill Putney wrote: > >> >> Ken, wire length is important too. Even if the wire capacity is enough >> for the amount of current you want to carry, if the wire it long the >> voltage drop may be unacceptable and require a larger wire. I assume from >> the values you give these are LED lights so at least you don't have to be >> concerned about the cold filament current. >> >> FAA AC43.13 has some good charts for figuring out wire size for a current >> and length. Look at Figure 11-2 "Conductor chart, continuous flow" on page >> 11-30. >> >> Since it sounds like you have a fiberglass airplane and you're using >> wires to return your ground instead of the airframe, you should double the >> wire length (so you account for the round trip voltage drop). >> >> Bill Putney - WB6RFW >> Chief Engineer >> KPTZ - Port Townsend, WA >> >> PP-SEL/A&P-IA >> >> "...you know me to be a very smart man. Don't you think if I were wrong, >> I'd know it?" -Sheldon Cooper >> >> On 7/24/16 12:38 PM, Ken Ryan wrote: >> >>> I have a landing/taxi light that share their ground wire. The landing >>> light is rated at 3.5 amps while the taxi is rated at 2.2 amps. It seems >>> that 20 ga. wire would be appropriate for each, but since the ground is >>> shared (and I can foresee operating both lights at the same time) does that >>> mean that the ground wire should be upsized to 18 gauge? Each light is on >>> its own circuit with planned 5 amp fuse protection. >>> >> >> >> ========== >> - >> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >> ========== >> FORUMS - >> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> WIKI - >> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >> ========== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:39:39 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Switch For Thermocouple Wires From: William Hunter I do not have sufficient pins left over in my Dynon EMS for my temperature monitoring needs. One of the items I do not need to monitor on a regular basis is the turbocharger intercooler outlet temperature (the actual temperature of the air entering the engine inlet) as I just really need to see that on a very hot day. Since this airplane is a pusher there is no visual indication of smoke or fire like on a tractor airplane so I would really like to have an internal engine cowling temperature indication using a thermocouple. I envision setting up the Skyview to trigger a red indication and a warning if a fire develops in the engine compartment and the temperature exceeds a preset limit and then I can react faster than waiting for the really bad day to develop. Since the engine inlet temperature is a NICE to know item and the engine cowling is a NEED to know... I was thinking about installing two thermocouples one in the inlet and one in the engine compartment and then wire each pair of wires to a DPST switch and then this switch would remain in the position to sence the NEED to know information 99 percent of the time and then flicked to the NICE to know position when it is becomes nice to know. Other than the usual solid connectors and quality switch requirements is there anything special to consider with thermocouple wires? THANKS!!! Bill Hunter ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:09:59 PM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: sizing shared ground wire Thanks! On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 2:35 PM, Charlie England wrote: > Size for total current on the ground path (sum of all load currents) using > your wire capacity chart, but protect (fuse) on the + side for each smaller > wire, just as you would if running separate grounds. > > On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 4:35 PM, Ken Ryan wrote: > >> Bill, the wires are short so voltage drop is not really a concern. The >> question is more related to amp carrying capacity and the fact that there >> are two wires for carrying the positive but only one for the negative, and >> how to handle that situation. >> >> On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Bill Putney wrote: >> >>> >>> Ken, wire length is important too. Even if the wire capacity is enough >>> for the amount of current you want to carry, if the wire it long the >>> voltage drop may be unacceptable and require a larger wire. I assume from >>> the values you give these are LED lights so at least you don't have to be >>> concerned about the cold filament current. >>> >>> FAA AC43.13 has some good charts for figuring out wire size for a >>> current and length. Look at Figure 11-2 "Conductor chart, continuous flow" >>> on page 11-30. >>> >>> Since it sounds like you have a fiberglass airplane and you're using >>> wires to return your ground instead of the airframe, you should double the >>> wire length (so you account for the round trip voltage drop). >>> >>> Bill Putney - WB6RFW >>> Chief Engineer >>> KPTZ - Port Townsend, WA >>> >>> PP-SEL/A&P-IA >>> >>> "...you know me to be a very smart man. Don't you think if I were wrong, >>> I'd know it?" -Sheldon Cooper >>> >>> On 7/24/16 12:38 PM, Ken Ryan wrote: >>> >>>> I have a landing/taxi light that share their ground wire. The landing >>>> light is rated at 3.5 amps while the taxi is rated at 2.2 amps. It seems >>>> that 20 ga. wire would be appropriate for each, but since the ground is >>>> shared (and I can foresee operating both lights at the same time) does that >>>> mean that the ground wire should be upsized to 18 gauge? Each light is on >>>> its own circuit with planned 5 amp fuse protection. >>>> >>> >>> >>> ========== >>> - >>> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> >>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >>> ========== >>> FORUMS - >>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >>> ========== >>> WIKI - >>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >>> ========== >>> b Site - >>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> ========== >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:51:18 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch For Thermocouple Wires From: Charlie England On 7/24/2016 5:35 PM, William Hunter wrote: > > I do not have sufficient pins left over in my Dynon EMS for my > temperature monitoring needs. > > One of the items I do not need to monitor on a regular basis is the > turbocharger intercooler outlet temperature (the actual temperature of > the air entering the engine inlet) as I just really need to see that > on a very hot day. > > Since this airplane is a pusher there is no visual indication of smoke > or fire like on a tractor airplane so I would really like to have an > internal engine cowling temperature indication using a thermocouple. I > envision setting up the Skyview to trigger a red indication and a > warning if a fire develops in the engine compartment and the > temperature exceeds a preset limit and then I can react faster than > waiting for the really bad day to develop. > > Since the engine inlet temperature is a NICE to know item and the > engine cowling is a NEED to know... I was thinking about installing > two thermocouples one in the inlet and one in the engine compartment > and then wire each pair of wires to a DPST switch and then this switch > would remain in the position to sence the NEED to know information 99 > percent of the time and then flicked to the NICE to know position when > it is becomes nice to know. > > Other than the usual solid connectors and quality switch requirements > is there anything special to consider with thermocouple wires? > > THANKS!!! > > Bill Hunter > To keep accuracy, you need to switch both leads. If you're just switching between 2 sensors, use a DPDT switch, so that the meter sees either both wires from one, or both wires from the other. Reason for switching both leads is that any 'junction' (connector, switch terminals, etc), particularly when the metal changes, like it would going through a switch, causes errors in measurement. If both leads are switched in the same space (meaning same temperature), then the errors cancel each other. (Don't forget that your alarm setting in the Dynon may cause false alarms if there's a big difference in 'normal' temps between the two sensors.) Charlie ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:28 PM PST US From: A R Goldman Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch For Thermocouple Wires If you have more probes you can use a rotary switch Rich Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 24, 2016, at 6:51 PM, Charlie England wrote: > > >> On 7/24/2016 5:35 PM, William Hunter wrote: >> >> I do not have sufficient pins left over in my Dynon EMS for my temperature monitoring needs. >> >> One of the items I do not need to monitor on a regular basis is the turbocharger intercooler outlet temperature (the actual temperature of the air entering the engine inlet) as I just really need to see that on a very hot day. >> >> Since this airplane is a pusher there is no visual indication of smoke or fire like on a tractor airplane so I would really like to have an internal engine cowling temperature indication using a thermocouple. I envision setting up the Skyview to trigger a red indication and a warning if a fire develops in the engine compartment and the temperature exceeds a preset limit and then I can react faster than waiting for the really bad day to develop. >> >> Since the engine inlet temperature is a NICE to know item and the engine cowling is a NEED to know... I was thinking about installing two thermocouples one in the inlet and one in the engine compartment and then wire each pair of wires to a DPST switch and then this switch would remain in the position to sence the NEED to know information 99 percent of the time and then flicked to the NICE to know position when it is becomes nice to know. >> >> Other than the usual solid connectors and quality switch requirements is there anything special to consider with thermocouple wires? >> >> THANKS!!! >> >> Bill Hunter > To keep accuracy, you need to switch both leads. If you're just switching between 2 sensors, use a DPDT switch, so that the meter sees either both wires from one, or both wires from the other. Reason for switching both leads is that any 'junction' (connector, switch terminals, etc), particularly when the metal changes, like it would going through a switch, causes errors in measurement. If both leads are switched in the same space (meaning same temperature), then the errors cancel each other. > > (Don't forget that your alarm setting in the Dynon may cause false alarms if there's a big difference in 'normal' temps between the two sensors.) > > Charlie > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:49:29 PM PST US From: Bill Putney Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: sizing shared ground wire The ground wire can be common but it has to be sized to carry the current of both lights (5.7A). I'd use a single 18 ga. wire for the ground. Bill Putney - WB6RFW Chief Engineer KPTZ - Port Townsend, WA PP-SEL/A&P-IA "...you know me to be a very smart man. Don't you think if I were wrong, I'd know it?" -Sheldon Cooper > On Jul 24, 2016, at 14:35, Ken Ryan wrote: > > Bill, the wires are short so voltage drop is not really a concern. The que stion is more related to amp carrying capacity and the fact that there are t wo wires for carrying the positive but only one for the negative, and how to handle that situation. > >> On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Bill Putney wrote: >> >> Ken, wire length is important too. Even if the wire capacity is enough fo r the amount of current you want to carry, if the wire it long the voltage d rop may be unacceptable and require a larger wire. I assume from the values y ou give these are LED lights so at least you don't have to be concerned abou t the cold filament current. >> >> FAA AC43.13 has some good charts for figuring out wire size for a current and length. Look at Figure 11-2 "Conductor chart, continuous flow" on page 1 1-30. >> >> Since it sounds like you have a fiberglass airplane and you're using wire s to return your ground instead of the airframe, you should double the wire l ength (so you account for the round trip voltage drop). >> >> Bill Putney - WB6RFW >> Chief Engineer >> KPTZ - Port Townsend, WA >> >> PP-SEL/A&P-IA >> >> "...you know me to be a very smart man. Don't you think if I were wrong, I 'd know it?" -Sheldon Cooper >> >>> On 7/24/16 12:38 PM, Ken Ryan wrote: >>> I have a landing/taxi light that share their ground wire. The landing li ght is rated at 3.5 amps while the taxi is rated at 2.2 amps. It seems that 2 0 ga. wire would be appropriate for each, but since the ground is shared (an d I can foresee operating both lights at the same time) does that mean that t he ground wire should be upsized to 18 gauge? Each light is on its own circu it with planned 5 amp fuse protection. >> >> >> ========== >> - >> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >> ========== >> FORUMS - >> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> WIKI - >> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >> ========== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n >> ========== > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:30:55 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: connectors explained? At 05:27 PM 7/23/2016, you wrote: >Lesser the two main problems with the molex type connectors seem to >be the crimp connection and the corrosion potential of the connectors. >I >I use them somewhat extensively but I try to circumvent these two >problems by the following > >1. Use the proper crimping tool >2. Solder the crimp >3 use heat shrink tubing for strain relief >4 use an antioxidant paste in the connectors >I even use this goo in gold plated (usually flash) pinned connectors >as well as fast -ins None of these things are inherently 'wrong' . . . but consider that AMP Mate-n-Lok (Molex cousins) went into Cessna ship's harnesses since the 60's with none of these 'enhanced' processes. Something we have to keep in mind is that when a company with the stature of AMP, Molex, Ampehnol, et. als. puts out a new technology with the potential for hundreds of millions of wire joinings, they'll have done their homework. Install and use these parts within the limits of their design goals, your risks are exceedingly low. 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