Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:21 AM - Re: sizing shared ground wire (ashleysc@broadstripe.net)
2. 07:16 AM - Re: sizing shared ground wire (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 07:39 AM - Re: sizing shared ground wire (Bill Putney)
4. 08:14 AM - Re: sizing shared ground wire (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 08:32 AM - Re: sizing shared ground wire (ashleysc@broadstripe.net)
6. 08:56 AM - Re: sizing shared ground wire (Ken Ryan)
7. 09:23 AM - Re: Switch For Thermocouple Wires (Eric Page)
8. 09:33 AM - Re: sizing shared ground wire (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 09:52 AM - Re: sizing shared ground wire (Ken Ryan)
10. 12:45 PM - Batteries (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net)
11. 04:49 PM - Re: Intermittent Battery Failure (user9253)
12. 05:08 PM - Re: Batteries (Mark Donahue)
13. 05:25 PM - Re: sizing shared ground wire (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 05:26 PM - Re: Re: Intermittent Battery Failure (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 07:30 PM - Re: sizing shared ground wire (Ken Ryan)
16. 08:22 PM - Re: sizing shared ground wire (Bill Putney)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: sizing shared ground wire |
So we have 5.7 amps flowing through the same ground wire. Size wire for 5.7
amps. However the fuse will have to be bigger due to the inrush of current
through cold filaments, which is greater than steady state. See what the l
amp manufacturer has to say about fuse size.
Cheers!=C2-=C2- Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Ryan" <keninalaska@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 12:38:55 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: sizing shared ground wire
I have a landing/taxi light that share their ground wire. The landing light
is rated at 3.5 amps while the taxi is rated at 2.2 amps. It seems that 20
ga. wire would be appropriate for each, but since the ground is shared (an
d I can foresee operating both lights at the same time) does that mean that
the ground wire should be upsized to 18 gauge? Each light is on its own ci
rcuit with planned 5 amp fuse protection.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: sizing shared ground wire |
>I have a landing/taxi light that share their ground wire. The
>landing light is rated at 3.5 amps while the taxi is rated at 2.2
>amps. It seems that 20 ga. wire would be appropriate for each, but
>since the ground is shared (and I can foresee operating both lights
>at the same time) does that mean that the ground wire should be
>upsized to 18 gauge? Each light is on its own circuit with planned 5
>amp fuse protection.
Are these LED or incandescent?
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: sizing shared ground wire |
Stu,
He didn't say but I'm guessing that his landing light is not an
incandescent. A 50W incandescent is pretty weak. A 50W LED landing light
is a flame thrower. If it's LED there shouldn't be much if any inrush.
Bill Putney - WB6RFW
Chief Engineer
KPTZ - Port Townsend, WA
PP-SEL/A&P-IA
"...you know me to be a very smart man. Don't you think if I were wrong, I'd know
it?" -Sheldon Cooper
On 7/25/16 5:40 AM, ashleysc@broadstripe.net wrote:
> So we have 5.7 amps flowing through the same ground wire. Size wire
> for 5.7 amps. However the fuse will have to be bigger due to the
> inrush of current through cold filaments, which is greater than steady
> state. See what the lamp manufacturer has to say about fuse size.
> Cheers! Stu.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"Ken Ryan" <keninalaska@gmail.com>
> *To: *aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> *Sent: *Sunday, July 24, 2016 12:38:55 PM
> *Subject: *AeroElectric-List: sizing shared ground wire
>
> I have a landing/taxi light that share their ground wire. The landing
> light is rated at 3.5 amps while the taxi is rated at 2.2 amps. It
> seems that 20 ga. wire would be appropriate for each, but since the
> ground is shared (and I can foresee operating both lights at the same
> time) does that mean that the ground wire should be upsized to 18
> gauge? Each light is on its own circuit with planned 5 amp fuse
> protection.
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: sizing shared ground wire |
At 09:35 AM 7/25/2016, you wrote:
>Stu,
>
>He didn't say but I'm guessing that his landing light is not an
>incandescent. A 50W incandescent is pretty weak. A 50W LED landing
>light is a flame thrower. If it's LED there shouldn't be much if any inrush.
Agreed. I'm curious as to why the grounds are shared.
In a TC aircraft, we would have independent grounds
for each appliance. If the ground is not already
pulled in I'd do separate strands. 22AWG is fine
for wiring both lamps as long as the lengths are
not really big. What kind of airplane?
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: sizing shared ground wire |
Hi Bill;
You're right. I was thinking "old school."
Cheers!=C2-=C2- Stu
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Putney" <billp@wwpc.com>
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 7:35:18 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: sizing shared ground wire
Stu,
He didn't say but I'm guessing that his landing light is not an incandescen
t. A 50W incandescent is pretty weak. A 50W LED landing light is a flame th
rower. If it's LED there shouldn't be much if any inrush.
Bill Putney - WB6RFW
Chief Engineer
KPTZ - Port Townsend, WA
PP-SEL/A&P-IA
"...you know me to be a very smart man. Don't you think if I were wrong, I'
d know it?" -Sheldon Cooper
On 7/25/16 5:40 AM, ashleysc@broadstripe.net wrote:
So we have 5.7 amps flowing through the same ground wire. Size wire for 5.7
amps. However the fuse will have to be bigger due to the inrush of current
through cold filaments, which is greater than steady state. See what the l
amp manufacturer has to say about fuse size.
Cheers!=C2-=C2- Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Ryan" <keninalaska@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 12:38:55 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: sizing shared ground wire
I have a landing/taxi light that share their ground wire. The landing light
is rated at 3.5 amps while the taxi is rated at 2.2 amps. It seems that 20
ga. wire would be appropriate for each, but since the ground is shared (an
d I can foresee operating both lights at the same time) does that mean that
the ground wire should be upsized to 18 gauge? Each light is on its own ci
rcuit with planned 5 amp fuse protection.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: sizing shared ground wire |
The airplane is Just SuperSTOL. The light is LED (Aveo Hercules). The
grounds are shared because the pigtail coming out of the appliance only
provides for one common ground source.
Now for the latest complication. When I read the documentation for the
light, it was of the electronic brochure variety (attached) and when I
looked at it I failed to note that it was actually for three different
models of the same light. Instead I just scanned down for the information I
was looking for (amps). Of course the one that came up first was not the
one I own, and the information was way off.
The actual amperage for the model I have is shown to be 4.2A for taxi and
6.3A for landing, far more than I originally thought. So, I will be pulling
new wires for sure. The wires are about 5 feet long.
Final note, I have wired it so that both lights (when switched on) are
always on the high setting, and the taxi light is always on the wig-wag
setting, and am using two SPST switches, one for landing, one for taxi. In
reality the light will be used for collision avoidance. (I live in
Anchorage and there is a lot of small airplane traffic in this whole area.
Mid-air collisions are a major concern. I also have two beacons, one on top
of the fuselage and one on the bottom.) Probably I will be running just the
(flashing) taxi light most of the time, but it might turn out that running
both will be better. I think only actual testing will determine that.
Ken
On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 7:09 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 09:35 AM 7/25/2016, you wrote:
>
> Stu,
>
> He didn't say but I'm guessing that his landing light is not an
> incandescent. A 50W incandescent is pretty weak. A 50W LED landing light is
> a flame thrower. If it's LED there shouldn't be much if any inrush.
>
>
> Agreed. I'm curious as to why the grounds are shared.
> In a TC aircraft, we would have independent grounds
> for each appliance. If the ground is not already
> pulled in I'd do separate strands. 22AWG is fine
> for wiring both lamps as long as the lengths are
> not really big. What kind of airplane?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Switch For Thermocouple Wires |
On Jul 24, 2016, at 3:35 PM, William Hunter <billhuntersemail@gmail.com> wro
te:
> I do not have sufficient pins left over in my Dynon EMS for my temperature
monitoring needs.
>
> [...]
>
Just a few things to add to Charlie's response.
The chromel/alumel wires used with common K-type thermocouples are practical
ly impossible to solder with typical tin/lead, rosin core electronic solder.
They require high temperature silver solder and appropriate flux. Crimped
or screw-down connectors are much easier to use.
A cheap and easy source for additional chromel/alumel extension wire is to b
uy K-type thermocouples on eBay and cut them up. They can be had for under a
dollar, delivered:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/j88uupr
The ones you see with a threaded metal sensor and spade terminals have fiber
glass insulation on the wires and a braided metal outer sheath (suitable for
under cowl use). The ones with a yellow connector have plastic insulation a
nd a fiberglass sheath (smaller diameter, easier to route in the fuselage).
If you have to splice wires for length, you can use any crimped connector to
join them, as long as the wires twist around each other to make electrical c
ontact independent of the connector.
The normal color convention for positive/negative connections is reversed fo
r thermocouples: red is negative. Swapped connections won't damage anything
but the instrument will read backwards.
Use chromel/alumel wire from the sensor to the switch *and* from the switch t
o the instrument. Don't change to copper wire after the switch.
The following documents might be more than you want to know, but there's a l
ot of interesting info about understanding and applying thermocouples:
- (Australian) AC 21-99, Aircraft Wiring & Bonding, Sec 2, Chap 16, "Thermoc
ouple Wire Soldering & Installation":
http://preview.tinyurl.com/z5fwrzw
- A Stanford University mechanical engineering professor's advice on thermoc
ouples:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/jl873l4
- An Acromag white paper on temperature measurement with thermocouples:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/hawrxwt
- A Maxim Integrated application note explaining cold junction compensation:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/jm2kku2
Eric
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: sizing shared ground wire |
At 10:54 AM 7/25/2016, you wrote:
>The airplane is Just SuperSTOL. The light is LED (Aveo Hercules).
>The grounds are shared because the pigtail coming out of the
>appliance only provides for one common ground source.
Aha! a package deal.
>Now for the latest complication. When I read the documentation for
>the light, it was of the electronic brochure variety (attached) and
>when I looked at it I failed to note that it was actually for three
>different models of the same light. Instead I just scanned down for
>the information I was looking for (amps). Of course the one that
>came up first was not the one I own, and the information was way off.
>
>The actual amperage for the model I have is shown to be 4.2A for
>taxi and 6.3A for landing, far more than I originally thought. So, I
>will be pulling new wires for sure. The wires are about 5 feet long.
Go 20AWG and 10A fuses for landing and taxi light.
18AWG ground.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: sizing shared ground wire |
Wow, thanks Bob! That will make my work a lot easier, as I originally ran
all 20AWG, so I will only need to re-do the ground wire. I should have also
told you that the wires are in a bundle, which is inside a plastic conduit.
The actual bundle+conduit is only about 3 feet long.
Ken
On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 10:54 AM 7/25/2016, you wrote:
>
> The airplane is Just SuperSTOL. The light is LED (Aveo Hercules). The
> grounds are shared because the pigtail coming out of the appliance only
> provides for one common ground source.
>
>
> Aha! a package deal.
>
>
> Now for the latest complication. When I read the documentation for the
> light, it was of the electronic brochure variety (attached) and when I
> looked at it I failed to note that it was actually for three different
> models of the same light. Instead I just scanned down for the information I
> was looking for (amps). Of course the one that came up first was not the
> one I own, and the information was way off.
>
> The actual amperage for the model I have is shown to be 4.2A for taxi and
> 6.3A for landing, far more than I originally thought. So, I will be pulling
> new wires for sure. The wires are about 5 feet long.
>
>
> Go 20AWG and 10A fuses for landing and taxi light.
> 18AWG ground.
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 10
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Getting back to the Odessy PC680 for a moment.
My first one was purchased in late 2006, removed in 2011 on general principal (
over 4 yrs old. ).
I removed it and installed it in my lawn mower and it is still going strong ( 10
years ).
I just removed my second one over 5 years old because it was too weak to crank
after years of cranking a very hard starting engine. Many times I ran it down
and had to re-charge it in cooler weather. I fixed the hard starting so I do not
anticipate any similar problems.
Odyssey says 3 ~ 10 years service life so we will see.
Bobby ( age 77 )
Zodiac 601 XL "B"
Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141
Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop
Status - Flying 268 hrs.
Do Not Archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Intermittent Battery Failure |
Bob,
I sent the battery along with a note. If the battery appears to be dead, wait
and check it again the next day. Or apply pressure to the front and back side
of the case. There seems to be an intermittent internal open circuit.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458689#458689
Message 12
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My Odyssey PC 680 battery in my RV-9A failed to start the engine after
two years in service. I removed to the dealer and after bench testing
the CCA were down to 70 amp. A new battery solved the problem, but I
was disappointed in the short life. I did not have it on a charger and
never ran it down. It was just past the 24 month warranty.
Hopefully the new one will last longer.
Mark Donahue
RV 9A
300 hours.
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobbyPaulk@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 12:43 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Batteries
Getting back to the Odessy PC680 for a moment.
My first one was purchased in late 2006, removed in 2011 on general
principal ( over 4 yrs old. ).
I removed it and installed it in my lawn mower and it is still going
strong ( 10 years ).
I just removed my second one over 5 years old because it was too weak to
crank after years of cranking a very hard starting engine. Many times I
ran it down and had to re-charge it in cooler weather. I fixed the hard
starting so I do not anticipate any similar problems.
Odyssey says 3 ~ 10 years service life so we will see.
Bobby ( age 77 )
Zodiac 601 XL "B"
Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141
Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop
Status - Flying 268 hrs.
Do Not Archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: sizing shared ground wire |
At 11:50 AM 7/25/2016, you wrote:
>Wow, thanks Bob! That will make my work a lot easier, as I
>originally ran all 20AWG, so I will only need to re-do the ground
>wire. I should have also told you that the wires are in a bundle,
>which is inside a plastic conduit. The actual bundle+conduit is only
>about 3 feet long.
only 3'? Shucks, leave the 20AWG in place.
the benefit to be gained is trivial.
Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Intermittent Battery Failure |
At 06:47 PM 7/25/2016, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>I sent the battery along with a note. If the battery appears to be
>dead, wait and check it again the next day. Or apply pressure to
>the front and back side of the case. There seems to be an
>intermittent internal open circuit.
>
>--------
>Joe Gores
Just picked it up today. Need to clear another
battery project off the bench tomorrow and I'll
get yours out to look at. thanks for the heads-up.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: sizing shared ground wire |
Already replaced it with 18AWG. The bundle+conduit is only about 3 feet,
but the entire length (one way) is closer to 5 or 6 feet. Anyway, the
ground wire was easy to replace. The others would have been more time
consuming.
On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 4:23 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 11:50 AM 7/25/2016, you wrote:
>
> Wow, thanks Bob! That will make my work a lot easier, as I originally ran
> all 20AWG, so I will only need to re-do the ground wire. I should have also
> told you that the wires are in a bundle, which is inside a plastic conduit.
> The actual bundle+conduit is only about 3 feet long.
>
>
> only 3'? Shucks, leave the 20AWG in place.
> the benefit to be gained is trivial.
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: sizing shared ground wire |
Ken,
I was gonna' say if the wire to the landing light was only 3' long it was go
nna' be pretty bright in the cockpit at night. :)
Bill Putney - WB6RFW
Chief Engineer
KPTZ - Port Townsend, WA
PP-SEL/A&P-IA
"...you know me to be a very smart man. Don't you think if I were wrong, I'd
know it?" -Sheldon Cooper
> On Jul 25, 2016, at 19:28, Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Already replaced it with 18AWG. The bundle+conduit is only about 3 feet, b
ut the entire length (one way) is closer to 5 or 6 feet. Anyway, the ground w
ire was easy to replace. The others would have been more time consuming.
>
>
>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 4:23 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@ae
roelectric.com> wrote:
>> At 11:50 AM 7/25/2016, you wrote:
>>> Wow, thanks Bob! That will make my work a lot easier, as I originally ra
n all 20AWG, so I will only need to re-do the ground wire. I should have als
o told you that the wires are in a bundle, which is inside a plastic conduit
. The actual bundle+conduit is only about 3 feet long.
>>
>> only 3'? Shucks, leave the 20AWG in place.
>> the benefit to be gained is trivial.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>
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