---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 07/26/16: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:33 AM - Re: sizing shared ground wire (Justin Jones) 2. 12:55 AM - Re: Batteries (Justin Jones) 3. 05:06 AM - Re: Batteries (Bill Watson) 4. 08:29 AM - Re: sizing shared ground wire (Ken Ryan) 5. 10:28 AM - Re: Batteries (Mark Donahue) 6. 10:50 AM - Re: Batteries (Justin Jones) 7. 11:26 AM - G5 <-> S-Tec Sys 50 () 8. 12:49 PM - Re: G5 <-> S-Tec Sys 50 (Ralph E. Capen) 9. 01:05 PM - Re: Re: Intermittent Battery Failure (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 01:36 PM - Re: G5 <-> S-Tec Sys 50 () 11. 02:18 PM - Re: G5 <-> S-Tec Sys 50 (Peter Pengilly) 12. 03:22 PM - Re: Batteries (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 13. 05:31 PM - Re: Switch For Thermocouple Wires (William Hunter) 14. 05:33 PM - Re: Ron Holt (Les Goldner) 15. 05:41 PM - Re: Batteries (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 16. 05:53 PM - Re: G5 <-> S-Tec Sys 50 (Ralph E. Capen) 17. 06:14 PM - Re: Switch For Thermocouple Wires (Alec Myers) 18. 06:34 PM - Re: Switch For Thermocouple Wires (William Hunter) 19. 09:01 PM - Re: Switch For Thermocouple Wires (Charlie England) 20. 10:10 PM - Re: Switch For Thermocouple Wires (William Hunter) 21. 10:32 PM - Re: Switch For Thermocouple Wires (Eric Page) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:33:10 AM PST US From: Justin Jones Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: sizing shared ground wire Ken, I live just north of you and bought my red beacons from Alaska Safety. Super bright, led, 1 inch hole, and tons of pre programmed flashing codes. If you ever come up to Wasilla, you should check out the beautiful SuperStol that Mario's Aircraft Service is building. It is truly impressive and a wor k of art! Justin > On Jul 26, 2016, at 00:54, Ken Ryan wrote: > > The airplane is Just SuperSTOL. The light is LED (Aveo Hercules). The grou nds are shared because the pigtail coming out of the appliance only provides for one common ground source. > > Now for the latest complication. When I read the documentation for the lig ht, it was of the electronic brochure variety (attached) and when I looked a t it I failed to note that it was actually for three different models of the same light. Instead I just scanned down for the information I was looking f or (amps). Of course the one that came up first was not the one I own, and t he information was way off. > > The actual amperage for the model I have is shown to be 4.2A for taxi and 6 .3A for landing, far more than I originally thought. So, I will be pulling n ew wires for sure. The wires are about 5 feet long. > > Final note, I have wired it so that both lights (when switched on) are alw ays on the high setting, and the taxi light is always on the wig-wag setting , and am using two SPST switches, one for landing, one for taxi. In reality t he light will be used for collision avoidance. (I live in Anchorage and ther e is a lot of small airplane traffic in this whole area. Mid-air collisions a re a major concern. I also have two beacons, one on top of the fuselage and o ne on the bottom.) Probably I will be running just the (flashing) taxi light most of the time, but it might turn out that running both will be better. I think only actual testing will determine that. > > Ken > >> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 7:09 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >> At 09:35 AM 7/25/2016, you wrote: >> >>> Stu, >>> >>> He didn't say but I'm guessing that his landing light is not an incandes cent. A 50W incandescent is pretty weak. A 50W LED landing light is a flame t hrower. If it's LED there shouldn't be much if any inrush. >> >> Agreed. I'm curious as to why the grounds are shared. >> In a TC aircraft, we would have independent grounds >> for each appliance. If the ground is not already >> pulled in I'd do separate strands. 22AWG is fine >> for wiring both lamps as long as the lengths are >> not really big. What kind of airplane? >> >> >> Bob . . . >> > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:55:37 AM PST US From: Justin Jones Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Batteries Mark, Make sure you verify battery charging voltage. Low charging voltage (in the 1 3s) can cause premature battery failure on the AGM batteries. Justin > On Jul 25, 2016, at 16:06, Mark Donahue wrote: > > My Odyssey PC 680 battery in my RV-9A failed to start the engine after two years in service. I removed to the dealer and after bench testing the CCA w ere down to 70 amp. A new battery solved the problem, but I was disappointe d in the short life. I did not have it on a charger and never ran it down. It was just past the 24 month warranty. > Hopefully the new one will last longer. > Mark Donahue > RV 9A > 300 hours. > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelect ric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobbyPaulk@comcast.net > Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 12:43 PM > To: aeroelectric-list > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Batteries > > Getting back to the Odessy PC680 for a moment. > My first one was purchased in late 2006, removed in 2011 on general princi pal ( over 4 yrs old. ). > I removed it and installed it in my lawn mower and it is still going stron g ( 10 years ). > I just removed my second one over 5 years old because it was too weak to c rank after years of cranking a very hard starting engine. Many times I ran i t down and had to re-charge it in cooler weather. I fixed the hard starting s o I do not anticipate any similar problems. > Odyssey says 3 ~ 10 years service life so we will see. > > Bobby ( age 77 ) > Zodiac 601 XL "B" > Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141 > Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop > Status - Flying 268 hrs. > > Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Batteries From: Bill Watson I would 2nd that suggestion having had a lot of experience ruining multiple Odyssey 680s. My RV10 carries 2 of them. I had one operating on a bus that ran at 13.4 volts and one on a buss that runs at 14.5+. The batteries on the 13.4 volt circuit lived less than 2 years - an early but slow death. You can also slowly kill discharged 680s by putting them on a low amp (2 amp charger) but that's well documented in the spec sheets and the AeroE archives. They are great batteries (light, powerful, long lasting) but the charging requirements are a bit different than plain lead acid batts. Bill "looking for more 680s to kill" Watson On 7/26/2016 3:54 AM, Justin Jones wrote: > Mark, > > Make sure you verify battery charging voltage. Low charging voltage > (in the 13s) can cause premature battery failure on the AGM batteries. > > Justin > > On Jul 25, 2016, at 16:06, Mark Donahue > wrote: > >> My Odyssey PC 680 battery in my RV-9A failed to start the engine >> after two years in service. I removed to the dealer and after bench >> testing the CCA were down to 70 amp. A new battery solved the >> problem, but I was disappointed in the short life. I did not have it >> on a charger and never ran it down. It was just past the 24 month >> warranty. >> >> Hopefully the new one will last longer. >> >> Mark Donahue >> >> RV 9A >> >> 300 hours. >> >> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of >> *BobbyPaulk@comcast.net >> *Sent:* Monday, July 25, 2016 12:43 PM >> *To:* aeroelectric-list >> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Batteries >> >> Getting back to the Odessy PC680 for a moment. >> >> My first one was purchased in late 2006, removed in 2011 on general >> principal ( over 4 yrs old. ). >> >> I removed it and installed it in my lawn mower and it is still going >> strong ( 10 years ). >> >> I just removed my second one over 5 years old because it was too weak >> to crank after years of cranking a very hard starting engine. Many >> times I ran it down and had to re-charge it in cooler weather. I >> fixed the hard starting so I do not anticipate any similar problems. >> >> Odyssey says 3 ~ 10 years service life so we will see. >> >> Bobby ( age 77 ) >> Zodiac 601 XL "B" >> Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141 >> Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop >> Status - Flying 268 hrs. >> >> Do Not Archive >> --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:16 AM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: sizing shared ground wire Hi Justin, I never thought of buying beacons from Alaska Safety. Probably would have saved a lot of money. I have heard of Mario's SuperSTOL. I believe he is using the same fabric (Oratex) that I am (no painting required). One thing I learned about the Oratex silver colored fabric that I am using is that they say that you cannot put antennas inside the aircraft. Normally on the SuperSTOL guys put the ELT antenna inside the tail section but I had to come up with a different location because Oratex folks said I couldn't do that with their silver fabric. On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 7:22 PM, Justin Jones wrote: > Ken, > I live just north of you and bought my red beacons from Alaska Safety. > Super bright, led, 1 inch hole, and tons of pre programmed flashing codes. > > If you ever come up to Wasilla, you should check out the beautiful > SuperStol that Mario's Aircraft Service is building. It is truly impressive > and a work of art! > > Justin > > On Jul 26, 2016, at 00:54, Ken Ryan wrote: > > The airplane is Just SuperSTOL. The light is LED (Aveo Hercules). The > grounds are shared because the pigtail coming out of the appliance only > provides for one common ground source. > > Now for the latest complication. When I read the documentation for the > light, it was of the electronic brochure variety (attached) and when I > looked at it I failed to note that it was actually for three different > models of the same light. Instead I just scanned down for the information I > was looking for (amps). Of course the one that came up first was not the > one I own, and the information was way off. > > The actual amperage for the model I have is shown to be 4.2A for taxi and > 6.3A for landing, far more than I originally thought. So, I will be pulling > new wires for sure. The wires are about 5 feet long. > > Final note, I have wired it so that both lights (when switched on) are > always on the high setting, and the taxi light is always on the wig-wag > setting, and am using two SPST switches, one for landing, one for taxi. In > reality the light will be used for collision avoidance. (I live in > Anchorage and there is a lot of small airplane traffic in this whole area. > Mid-air collisions are a major concern. I also have two beacons, one on top > of the fuselage and one on the bottom.) Probably I will be running just the > (flashing) taxi light most of the time, but it might turn out that running > both will be better. I think only actual testing will determine that. > > Ken > > > On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 7:09 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > >> At 09:35 AM 7/25/2016, you wrote: >> >> Stu, >> >> He didn't say but I'm guessing that his landing light is not an >> incandescent. A 50W incandescent is pretty weak. A 50W LED landing light is >> a flame thrower. If it's LED there shouldn't be much if any inrush. >> >> >> Agreed. I'm curious as to why the grounds are shared. >> In a TC aircraft, we would have independent grounds >> for each appliance. If the ground is not already >> pulled in I'd do separate strands. 22AWG is fine >> for wiring both lamps as long as the lengths are >> not really big. What kind of airplane? >> >> >> Bob . . . >> > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:28:27 AM PST US From: "Mark Donahue" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Batteries My voltage gauge indicates over 14 volts when the engine is running. I will put my multimeter on it to confirm. Thanks for the feedback. Mark From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Watson Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 5:05 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Batteries I would 2nd that suggestion having had a lot of experience ruining multiple Odyssey 680s. My RV10 carries 2 of them. I had one operating on a bus that ran at 13.4 volts and one on a buss that runs at 14.5+. The batteries on the 13.4 volt circuit lived less than 2 years - an early but slow death. You can also slowly kill discharged 680s by putting them on a low amp (2 amp charger) but that's well documented in the spec sheets and the AeroE archives. They are great batteries (light, powerful, long lasting) but the charging requirements are a bit different than plain lead acid batts. Bill "looking for more 680s to kill" Watson On 7/26/2016 3:54 AM, Justin Jones wrote: Mark, Make sure you verify battery charging voltage. Low charging voltage (in the 13s) can cause premature battery failure on the AGM batteries. Justin On Jul 25, 2016, at 16:06, Mark Donahue > wrote: My Odyssey PC 680 battery in my RV-9A failed to start the engine after two years in service. I removed to the dealer and after bench testing the CCA were down to 70 amp. A new battery solved the problem, but I was disappointed in the short life. I did not have it on a charger and never ran it down. It was just past the 24 month warranty. Hopefully the new one will last longer. Mark Donahue RV 9A 300 hours. From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobbyPaulk@comcast.net Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 12:43 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Batteries Getting back to the Odessy PC680 for a moment. My first one was purchased in late 2006, removed in 2011 on general principal ( over 4 yrs old. ). I removed it and installed it in my lawn mower and it is still going strong ( 10 years ). I just removed my second one over 5 years old because it was too weak to crank after years of cranking a very hard starting engine. Many times I ran it down and had to re-charge it in cooler weather. I fixed the hard starting so I do not anticipate any similar problems. Odyssey says 3 ~ 10 years service life so we will see. Bobby ( age 77 ) Zodiac 601 XL "B" Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141 Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop Status - Flying 268 hrs. Do Not Archive _____ This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:50:14 AM PST US From: Justin Jones Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Batteries Maybe someone will correct me if I am wrong but it needs to be somewhere ver y close to 14.4. Justin > On Jul 26, 2016, at 09:26, Mark Donahue wrote: > > My voltage gauge indicates over 14 volts when the engine is running. I wi ll put my multimeter on it to confirm. > Thanks for the feedback. > Mark > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelect ric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Watson > Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 5:05 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Batteries > > I would 2nd that suggestion having had a lot of experience ruining multipl e Odyssey 680s. > > My RV10 carries 2 of them. I had one operating on a bus that ran at 13.4 volts and one on a buss that runs at 14.5+. The batteries on the 13.4 vol t circuit lived less than 2 years - an early but slow death. > > You can also slowly kill discharged 680s by putting them on a low amp (2 a mp charger) but that's well documented in the spec sheets and the AeroE arch ives. > > They are great batteries (light, powerful, long lasting) but the charging r equirements are a bit different than plain lead acid batts. > > Bill "looking for more 680s to kill" Watson > > On 7/26/2016 3:54 AM, Justin Jones wrote: > Mark, > > Make sure you verify battery charging voltage. Low charging voltage (in th e 13s) can cause premature battery failure on the AGM batteries. > > Justin > > On Jul 25, 2016, at 16:06, Mark Donahue wrote: > > My Odyssey PC 680 battery in my RV-9A failed to start the engine after two years in service. I removed to the dealer and after bench testing the CCA w ere down to 70 amp. A new battery solved the problem, but I was disappointe d in the short life. I did not have it on a charger and never ran it down. It was just past the 24 month warranty. > Hopefully the new one will last longer. > Mark Donahue > RV 9A > 300 hours. > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelect ric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobbyPaulk@comcast.net > Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 12:43 PM > To: aeroelectric-list > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Batteries > > Getting back to the Odessy PC680 for a moment. > My first one was purchased in late 2006, removed in 2011 on general princi pal ( over 4 yrs old. ). > I removed it and installed it in my lawn mower and it is still going stron g ( 10 years ). > I just removed my second one over 5 years old because it was too weak to c rank after years of cranking a very hard starting engine. Many times I ran i t down and had to re-charge it in cooler weather. I fixed the hard starting s o I do not anticipate any similar problems. > Odyssey says 3 ~ 10 years service life so we will see. > > Bobby ( age 77 ) > Zodiac 601 XL "B" > Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141 > Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop > Status - Flying 268 hrs. > > Do Not Archive > > > > > <~WRD000.jpg> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:26:35 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: G5 <-> S-Tec Sys 50 Hi all, The S-Tec Sys 50 Auto Pilot has a dedicated DG for heading mode and a dedicated TC for leveling. The new Garmin G5 interfaces with Garmin's GMC 30X AP interface. Does anyone know, if G5 (used as stand alone) can interface with Sys 50 AP in terms of steering Sys 50 via the heading bug (Sys 50 heading mode) and to serve as its Turn Coordinator ? Rumen ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:49:26 PM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: G5 <-> S-Tec Sys 50 Good question, I am looking for a HSI replacement for my Century NSD1000 - this looks like it has great potential...The heading bug is the critical path to full functionality in my implementation. If it outputs the same ARINC command strings as their 400W/500W series GPS units, it will be compatible with S-Tec autopilots via the GPSS interface. I have a S-Tec 30 working with my 420W using the GPSS interface. The GPSS interface is also optional for the fifty series. Let me know if you get a response from Garmin on this one as I am interested as well! Ralph Capen -----Original Message----- >From: rd2@dejazzd.com >Sent: Jul 26, 2016 2:25 PM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: AeroElectric-List: G5 <-> S-Tec Sys 50 > > >Hi all, > >The S-Tec Sys 50 Auto Pilot has a dedicated DG for heading mode and a dedicated TC for leveling. > >The new Garmin G5 interfaces with Garmin's GMC 30X AP interface. > >Does anyone know, if G5 (used as stand alone) can interface with Sys 50 AP in terms of steering Sys 50 via the heading bug (Sys 50 heading mode) and to serve as its Turn Coordinator ? > >Rumen > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:05:29 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Intermittent Battery Failure At 06:47 PM 7/25/2016, you wrote: > >Bob, >I sent the battery along with a note. If the battery appears to be >dead, wait and check it again the next day. Or apply pressure to >the front and back side of the case. There seems to be an >intermittent internal open circuit. It didn't want to 'work' out of the box. I'll let it set for awhile. I was hoping to evaluate the state-of-the-chemistry but perhaps the stresses of shipping were too much. I'm imagining an internal weld fracture. We'll massage it a bit before I cut the case open. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:36:08 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: G5 <-> S-Tec Sys 50 Tx for the feedback, Ralph. I don't know about a response from Garmin (for this this particular application), as their primary purpose was to interface the G5 with their G3X. But it seems like a little gem with potential and has RS-232 and CAN communication interfaces. I'll keep digging, hopefully will get the info we need. Rumen do not archive ---- "Ralph E. Capen" wrote: ============ Good question, I am looking for a HSI replacement for my Century NSD1000 - this looks like it has great potential...The heading bug is the critical path to full functionality in my implementation. If it outputs the same ARINC command strings as their 400W/500W series GPS units, it will be compatible with S-Tec autopilots via the GPSS interface. I have a S-Tec 30 working with my 420W using the GPSS interface. The GPSS interface is also optional for the fifty series. Let me know if you get a response from Garmin on this one as I am interested as well! Ralph Capen -----Original Message----- >From: rd2@dejazzd.com >Sent: Jul 26, 2016 2:25 PM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: AeroElectric-List: G5 <-> S-Tec Sys 50 > > >Hi all, > >The S-Tec Sys 50 Auto Pilot has a dedicated DG for heading mode and a dedicated TC for leveling. > >The new Garmin G5 interfaces with Garmin's GMC 30X AP interface. > >Does anyone know, if G5 (used as stand alone) can interface with Sys 50 AP in terms of steering Sys 50 via the heading bug (Sys 50 heading mode) and to serve as its Turn Coordinator ? > >Rumen > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:57 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: G5 <-> S-Tec Sys 50 From: Peter Pengilly Garmin says the G5 is not designed to interface with 3rd party autopilots ... On 26 Jul 2016 19:46, wrote: > > Hi all, > > The S-Tec Sys 50 Auto Pilot has a dedicated DG for heading mode and a > dedicated TC for leveling. > > The new Garmin G5 interfaces with Garmin's GMC 30X AP interface. > > Does anyone know, if G5 (used as stand alone) can interface with Sys 50 AP > in terms of steering Sys 50 via the heading bug (Sys 50 heading mode) and > to serve as its Turn Coordinator ? > > Rumen > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:22:53 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Batteries At 12:49 PM 7/26/2016, you wrote: >Maybe someone will correct me if I am wrong but it needs to be >somewhere very close to 14.4. > Enersys is 'happy' with anything between 14.1 and 14.7 volts. See: http://tinyurl.com/hb4s7c4 . . . in particular Figure 6 and first paragraph on page 13. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:31:07 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch For Thermocouple Wires From: William Hunter Thanks Charlie, >Don't forget that your alarm setting in the Dynon may cause false alarms if there's a big difference in 'normal' temps between the two sensors.) I am somewhat interested in knowing how hot a fire is... The plan would be to install the Thermocouple on the firewall above the fuel hoses as these are arguably the likely suspects. Then I would have a temperature read out (just numerical value) displayed somewhere on the screen below the engine "guages". The idea being the display would be white digits until the temperature indication raises above a predetermined values and then turn red. Any recommendations on that value should be so as to avoid faulse readings? Bill Hunter On Jul 24, 2016 4:57 PM, "Charlie England" wrote: ceengland7@gmail.com> On 7/24/2016 5:35 PM, William Hunter wrote: > > I do not have sufficient pins left over in my Dynon EMS for my temperature > monitoring needs. > > One of the items I do not need to monitor on a regular basis is the > turbocharger intercooler outlet temperature (the actual temperature of the > air entering the engine inlet) as I just really need to see that on a very > hot day. > > Since this airplane is a pusher there is no visual indication of smoke or > fire like on a tractor airplane so I would really like to have an internal > engine cowling temperature indication using a thermocouple. I envision > setting up the Skyview to trigger a red indication and a warning if a fire > develops in the engine compartment and the temperature exceeds a preset > limit and then I can react faster than waiting for the really bad day to > develop. > > Since the engine inlet temperature is a NICE to know item and the engine > cowling is a NEED to know... I was thinking about installing two > thermocouples one in the inlet and one in the engine compartment and then > wire each pair of wires to a DPST switch and then this switch would remain > in the position to sence the NEED to know information 99 percent of the > time and then flicked to the NICE to know position when it is becomes nice > to know. > > Other than the usual solid connectors and quality switch requirements is > there anything special to consider with thermocouple wires? > > THANKS!!! > > Bill Hunter > > To keep accuracy, you need to switch both leads. If you're just switching between 2 sensors, use a DPDT switch, so that the meter sees either both wires from one, or both wires from the other. Reason for switching both leads is that any 'junction' (connector, switch terminals, etc), particularly when the metal changes, like it would going through a switch, causes errors in measurement. If both leads are switched in the same space (meaning same temperature), then the errors cancel each other. (Don't forget that your alarm setting in the Dynon may cause false alarms if there's a big difference in 'normal' temps between the two sensors.) Charlie ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:33:32 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Ron Holt From: Les Goldner CiAgICAKwqBXb3VsZCBoYXZlIGJlZW4gZ2xhZCB0byBhc3Npc3QsIGJ1dCBhbSBpbiBPc2hrb3No IGF0IHRoZSBiaWdnZXN0IGFpcmNyYWZ0IGdhdGhlcmluZyBpbiB0aGUgd29ybGQuIEJlIGJhY2sg aW4gYSB3ZWVrLiBMZXQgbWUga25vdyBob3cgdGhlIG1lZXRpbmcgd2VudC4KCgpTZW50IGZyb20g bXkgVmVyaXpvbiwgU2Ftc3VuZyBHYWxheHkgc21hcnRwaG9uZQoKLS0tLS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwg bWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLS0tLQpGcm9tOiBSaWNoYXJkIEFkbGVyIDxyaGFkbGVyQG1lLmNvbT4gCkRh dGU6IDcvMjYvMTYgIDEzOjI1ICAoR01ULTA2OjAwKSAKVG86IExlcyBHb2xkbmVyIDxsZ29sZEBx dWFudHVtLWFzc29jaWF0ZXMuY29tPiAKU3ViamVjdDogUm9uIEhvbHQgCgpIaUkgc2VlIHRoYXQg eW91IGFyZSBhd2F5IGFuZCBSb24gbmVlZHMgc29tZSBpbW1lZGlhdGUgYXNzaXN0YW5jZSwgc28g SSBhbSBnb2luZyB0byBzZWUgaGltIHRvbW9ycm93IGF0IDFJZiB5b3UgY2FuIG1ha2UgaXQgd291 bGQgYmUgZ3JlYXRUaGFua3MgYW5kIEkgaG9wZSB5b3UgYXJlIGhhdmluZyBmdW5SaWNoYXJk ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:27 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Batteries At 05:21 PM 7/26/2016, you wrote: >At 12:49 PM 7/26/2016, you wrote: >>Maybe someone will correct me if I am wrong but it needs to be >>somewhere very close to 14.4. > > > Enersys is 'happy' with anything between > 14.1 and 14.7 volts. See: > > >http://tinyurl.com/hb4s7c4 > > . . . in particular Figure 6 and first > paragraph on page 13. P.S. On page 4 of the same document we find this Emacs! It seems that voltages from 13.5 to 15.0 will 'safely' charge an Odyssey (and probably any other lead-acid technology) with preferences based on type of service. I've been running some data plots on a pair of SVLA batteries. Here's a small excerpt of that data set. Emacs! The lower of these 5 plots is performance of a battery charged at 13.2 volts. The energy stored is 78% of the upper curve (charged at 14.6v). Moving up from the bottom we have 13.2v charge, A Battery Tender recharge, a 13.5v charge, a 14.2v charge and finally 14.6v charge. Without going into all the features of the test (a report will be published), we can see that 13.5 to 14.6v charge potentials produce a well charged device with an 11% differential in stored energy. What is not obvious from these plots is the TIME it takes to reach maximum transfer of recharge energy . . . I think it took about 6 hours for the 13.5 volt test charge to drop to 5% of max charge (2.00 amps). The take away from these experiments combined with the information from the Odyssey tech manual is that 13.4 is probably way too low for cyclic service (moderate to heavy use over a few hours interspersed with perhaps days of idle time). But it seems likely that the battery feed from the 13.4v bus was chronically undercharged. If you're still running two batteries with this same disparity of recharge voltage, it would be interesting to cap-check the two devices. Sufice it to say that the performance of any lead-acid product would perform pretty close to expectations in aircraft when charged at the legacy 14.2 plus or minus 0.2 volts. Further, running a bus voltage as high as 15.0 in cyclic duty doesn't give Enersys any heartburn. Is there any way you can get both batteries to operated at 14.5 volts? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:55 PM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: G5 <-> S-Tec Sys 50 It's a shame they're blind in the foresight department: This device could replace every $12,000 HSI installation when the internal gyros fail. This device could get every homebuilder into glass screens. This device could salvage Garmin's monopolistic reputation... Remember IBM's MicroChannel architecture - and the Sony BetaMax VCR's...both were proprietary monopolistic versions of other devices that nearly cost these companies their existence. -----Original Message----- From: Peter Pengilly Sent: Jul 26, 2016 5:17 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: G5 <-> S-Tec Sys 50 Garmin says the G5 is not designed to interface with 3rd party autopilots ... On 26 Jul 2016 19:46, wrote: Hi all, The S-Tec Sys 50 Auto Pilot has a dedicated DG for heading mode and a dedicated TC for leveling. The new Garmin G5 interfaces with Garmin's GMC 30X AP interface. Does anyone know, if G5 (used as stand alone) can interface with Sys 50 AP in terms of steering Sys 50 via the heading bug (Sys 50 heading mode) and to serve as its Turn Coordinator ? Rumen ========== - Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List ========== FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com ========== WIKI - errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com ========== b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:14:57 PM PST US From: Alec Myers Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch For Thermocouple Wires No suggestions from me about a good temperature threshold for the fire alarm except that it's just begging for some experimentation :-) > On Jul 26, 2016, at 8:29 PM, William Hunter w rote: > > Thanks Charlie, > > >Don't forget that your alarm setting in the Dynon may cause false alarms i f there's a big difference in 'normal' temps between the two sensors.) > > I am somewhat interested in knowing how hot a fire is... The plan would be to install the Thermocouple on the firewall above the fuel hoses as these a re arguably the likely suspects. Then I would have a temperature read out (j ust numerical value) displayed somewhere on the screen below the engine "gua ges". > > The idea being the display would be white digits until the temperature ind ication raises above a predetermined values and then turn red. > > Any recommendations on that value should be so as to avoid faulse readings ? > > Bill Hunter > > On Jul 24, 2016 4:57 PM, "Charlie England" wrote: .com> > > >> On 7/24/2016 5:35 PM, William Hunter wrote: >> >> I do not have sufficient pins left over in my Dynon EMS for my temperatur e monitoring needs. >> >> One of the items I do not need to monitor on a regular basis is the turbo charger intercooler outlet temperature (the actual temperature of the air en tering the engine inlet) as I just really need to see that on a very hot day .. >> >> Since this airplane is a pusher there is no visual indication of smoke or fire like on a tractor airplane so I would really like to have an internal e ngine cowling temperature indication using a thermocouple. I envision settin g up the Skyview to trigger a red indication and a warning if a fire develop s in the engine compartment and the temperature exceeds a preset limit and t hen I can react faster than waiting for the really bad day to develop. >> >> Since the engine inlet temperature is a NICE to know item and the engine c owling is a NEED to know... I was thinking about installing two thermocouple s one in the inlet and one in the engine compartment and then wire each pair of wires to a DPST switch and then this switch would remain in the position to sence the NEED to know information 99 percent of the time and then flic ked to the NICE to know position when it is becomes nice to know. >> >> Other than the usual solid connectors and quality switch requirements is t here anything special to consider with thermocouple wires? >> >> THANKS!!! >> >> Bill Hunter > To keep accuracy, you need to switch both leads. If you're just switching b etween 2 sensors, use a DPDT switch, so that the meter sees either both wire s from one, or both wires from the other. Reason for switching both leads is that any 'junction' (connector, switch terminals, etc), particularly when t he metal changes, like it would going through a switch, causes errors in mea surement. If both leads are switched in the same space (meaning same tempera ture), then the errors cancel each other. > > (Don't forget that your alarm setting in the Dynon may cause false alarms i f there's a big difference in 'normal' temps between the two sensors.) > > Charlie > > ========== > - > Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.c om/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > ========== > FORUMS - > eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > WIKI - > errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com > ========== > b Site - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:35 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch For Thermocouple Wires From: William Hunter I'll light the fuse and let you know Bill Hunter On Jul 26, 2016 6:22 PM, "Alec Myers" wrote: > No suggestions from me about a good temperature threshold for the fire > alarm except that it's just begging for some experimentation :-) > > On Jul 26, 2016, at 8:29 PM, William Hunter > wrote: > > Thanks Charlie, > > >Don't forget that your alarm setting in the Dynon may cause false alarms > if there's a big difference in 'normal' temps between the two sensors.) > > I am somewhat interested in knowing how hot a fire is... The plan would be > to install the Thermocouple on the firewall above the fuel hoses as these > are arguably the likely suspects. Then I would have a temperature read out > (just numerical value) displayed somewhere on the screen below the engine > "guages". > > The idea being the display would be white digits until the temperature > indication raises above a predetermined values and then turn red. > > Any recommendations on that value should be so as to avoid faulse > readings? > > Bill Hunter > > On Jul 24, 2016 4:57 PM, "Charlie England" wrote: > > ceengland7@gmail.com> > > > On 7/24/2016 5:35 PM, William Hunter wrote: > >> >> I do not have sufficient pins left over in my Dynon EMS for my >> temperature monitoring needs. >> >> One of the items I do not need to monitor on a regular basis is the >> turbocharger intercooler outlet temperature (the actual temperature of the >> air entering the engine inlet) as I just really need to see that on a very >> hot day. >> >> Since this airplane is a pusher there is no visual indication of smoke or >> fire like on a tractor airplane so I would really like to have an internal >> engine cowling temperature indication using a thermocouple. I envision >> setting up the Skyview to trigger a red indication and a warning if a fire >> develops in the engine compartment and the temperature exceeds a preset >> limit and then I can react faster than waiting for the really bad day to >> develop. >> >> Since the engine inlet temperature is a NICE to know item and the engine >> cowling is a NEED to know... I was thinking about installing two >> thermocouples one in the inlet and one in the engine compartment and then >> wire each pair of wires to a DPST switch and then this switch would remain >> in the position to sence the NEED to know information 99 percent of the >> time and then flicked to the NICE to know position when it is becomes nice >> to know. >> >> Other than the usual solid connectors and quality switch requirements is >> there anything special to consider with thermocouple wires? >> >> THANKS!!! >> >> Bill Hunter >> >> To keep accuracy, you need to switch both leads. If you're just switching > between 2 sensors, use a DPDT switch, so that the meter sees either both > wires from one, or both wires from the other. Reason for switching both > leads is that any 'junction' (connector, switch terminals, etc), > particularly when the metal changes, like it would going through a switch, > causes errors in measurement. If both leads are switched in the same space > (meaning same temperature), then the errors cancel each other. > > (Don't forget that your alarm setting in the Dynon may cause false alarms > if there's a big difference in 'normal' temps between the two sensors.) > > Charlie > > ========== > - > Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > ========== > FORUMS - > eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > WIKI - > errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com > ========== > b Site - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:01:18 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch For Thermocouple Wires From: Charlie England U29ycnk7IG5vIGlkZWEuIFdoYXQgSSBtZWFudCB3YXMgdGhhdCBtZWFzdXJpbmcgZGlmZmVyZW50 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cmVyIiB0YXJnZXQ9Il9ibGFuayI+aHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2NvbnRyaWJ1dGlv bgo9PT09PT09PT09PQoKCgoK ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:45 PM PST US From: "William Hunter" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Switch For Thermocouple Wires > What I meant was that measuring different temp ranges (inlet vs cowl), they're likely to have different normal ranges. So, setting up the alarm point in the efis would be different for each source. Thanksthe plan would be for the selector switch to live in the COWL TEMP setting 99.3 percent of the time (watching for an engine fire) so the cowl temp predetermined trigger point is really all that I am interested inI guess I can just SWAG 500F as the trigger point for the white to red digits in Dynon and after watching the digits during some normal very hot day operations I can see what the usual engine cowl internal temps will be (and the rate of increase) and then adjust accordingly. I wonder if I can teach the nice Dynon girl to say =9CWarning=9D or =9CEngine Fire=9D or somethinga calm British accent would be really cool?!?!? The engine turbo intercooler exhaust is simply a Gee Wizz indication for the remainder 0.7 percent so no real concern for the trigger, colors, or British babe voice. .. Cheers!!! Bill Hunter From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 8:59 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch For Thermocouple Wires Sorry; no idea. What I meant was that measuring different temp ranges (inlet vs cowl), they're likely to have different normal ranges. So, setting up the alarm point in the efis would be different for each source. -------- Original message -------- From: William Hunter Date:07/26/2016 7:29 PM (GMT-06:00) Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch For Thermocouple Wires Thanks Charlie, >Don't forget that your alarm setting in the Dynon may cause false alarms if there's a big difference in 'normal' temps between the two sensors.) I am somewhat interested in knowing how hot a fire is... The plan would be to install the Thermocouple on the firewall above the fuel hoses as these are arguably the likely suspects. Then I would have a temperature read out (just numerical value) displayed somewhere on the screen below the engine "guages". The idea being the display would be white digits until the temperature indication raises above a predetermined values and then turn red. Any recommendations on that value should be so as to avoid faulse readings? Bill Hunter On Jul 24, 2016 4:57 PM, "Charlie England" > wrote: > On 7/24/2016 5:35 PM, William Hunter wrote: I do not have sufficient pins left over in my Dynon EMS for my temperature monitoring needs. One of the items I do not need to monitor on a regular basis is the turbocharger intercooler outlet temperature (the actual temperature of the air entering the engine inlet) as I just really need to see that on a very hot day. Since this airplane is a pusher there is no visual indication of smoke or fire like on a tractor airplane so I would really like to have an internal engine cowling temperature indication using a thermocouple. I envision setting up the Skyview to trigger a red indication and a warning if a fire develops in the engine compartment and the temperature exceeds a preset limit and then I can react faster than waiting for the really bad day to develop. Since the engine inlet temperature is a NICE to know item and the engine cowling is a NEED to know... I was thinking about installing two thermocouples one in the inlet and one in the engine compartment and then wire each pair of wires to a DPST switch and then this switch would remain in the position to sence the NEED to know information 99 percent of the time and then flicked to the NICE to know position when it is becomes nice to know. Other than the usual solid connectors and quality switch requirements is there anything special to consider with thermocouple wires? THANKS!!! Bill Hunter To keep accuracy, you need to switch both leads. If you're just switching between 2 sensors, use a DPDT switch, so that the meter sees either both wires from one, or both wires from the other. Reason for switching both leads is that any 'junction' (connector, switch terminals, etc), particularly when the metal changes, like it would going through a switch, causes errors in measurement. If both leads are switched in the same space (meaning same temperature), then the errors cancel each other. (Don't forget that your alarm setting in the Dynon may cause false alarms if there's a big difference in 'normal' temps between the two sensors.) Charlie - Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com WIKI - errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:32:37 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch For Thermocouple Wires From: Eric Page On Jul 26, 2016, at 5:29 PM, William Hunter wro te: > I am somewhat interested in knowing how hot a fire is... > For gasoline, ignition temp is 232=C2=B0C and flame temp varies from ~945=C2 =B0C to 1,950=C2=B0C depending on conditions. Eric ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.