Today's Message Index:
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1. 09:05 AM - Re: Re: Wig Wag difficulties (Ed)
2. 09:07 AM - Re: Re: Wig Wag difficulties (Ed)
3. 10:35 AM - Re: Wig Wag difficulties (Eric M. Jones)
4. 11:10 AM - Re: Re: Wig Wag difficulties (Ed)
5. 11:46 AM - Re: Re: Wig Wag difficulties (Henador Titzoff)
6. 07:39 PM - Re: Re: Wig Wag difficulties (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 08:18 PM - Re: Re: Wig Wag difficulties (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Wig Wag difficulties |
Howdy Lyle,
It is indeed a bandaid, but perhaps not a complete loss. 75 ohms at
12.5v is less than 2/10 of an amp. I can afford that. The problem that I
have with it is it didn't work to make the flasher cycle. I think I'll
try paralleling 2 of them. That will cost me about a third of an amp.
Little enough if it makes the circuit work right. I'll still be at less
than half of the 8 amps that 100w halogens would pull.
Got a part number for the correct LED flasher? The one's I've been
looking at need switched power to them or they will constantly flash.
Not impossible to manage, but it means a revision of the wiring and
switching at best and an additional switch at worst. Since I've already
silk screened my panel, I'd like to avoid that.
Ed
On 8/9/2016 9:15 PM, Lyle Peterson wrote:
> <lyleap@centurylink.net>
>
> There are flashers specifically for LED lights that will operate with
> the light (no pun intended) load of LEDs. They are used on cars and
> motorcycles, particularly when incandescent lamps are replaced with LEDs.
>
> One of the reasons for installing LEDs is that they draw much less
> current. Another is that the run very cool. Adding a resistor across
> them defeats the purposes and the advantage is gone. The resistor has
> to sink the current that an incandescent bulb would draw. This creates
> heat just as it does when the incandescent bulb is lit.
>
> I consider the resistor to be a jury rigged cure that is best dealt with
> by using the correct components.
>
> Lyle
>
>
> On 8/9/2016 10:53 PM, user9253 wrote:
>>
>> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/WigWag/WigWag.pdf
>>
>> --------
>> Joe Gores
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459415#459415
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Wig Wag difficulties |
Thanks, Joe.
Page 5.0 is the drawing I emulated, along with the resistors shown on
the last page. I'm wired exactly as drawn and it's not working as it
should. I'm thinking about trying parallel resistors to have 37.5 ohms
across the lights. Maybe that will do it.
Ed
On 8/9/2016 8:53 PM, user9253 wrote:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/WigWag/WigWag.pdf
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459415#459415
>
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Wig Wag difficulties |
I still sell my wig wags by the boatload. They require no load resistor and work
on everything (almost). Not the cheapest, but they are guaranteed forever if
I can manage it.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459430#459430
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Wig Wag difficulties |
To update where I'm at - I paralleled two 75 ohm, 5w resistors on each
light and got solid flashing for the 20 minutes that I tested it. The
resistors are too hot to grip between fingers but not too hot to touch
lightly. I calc about .33A loss and about 4.16 watts. I might try some
50 ohm, 10w resistors which should save me a tenth of an amp and run
slightly cooler.
Ed
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Wig Wag difficulties |
Look at the bright side, Ed.=C2- As your alternator fails and your batter
y voltage goes down, your Gube Roldberg (I'm dyslexic) two resistor impleme
ntation will suck in less current to dissipate less vital battery energy.
=C2- There is a reason for LED lighting other than reliability - they use
less power (energy).=C2- Why not do the right thing and replace that wig
wagger with something that works with less current flowing through it, e.g
. Eric Jones' wig wagger?=C2- It sounds like a brighter idea than power d
issipating resistors giving off invisible infrared photons.=C2- I don't m
ean to speak for Eric, but maybe he can ship you a unit to test drive.=C2
- If it works, great; if it doesn't, you ship it back.=C2-Henador Titzo
ff
From: Ed <decaclops@gmail.com>
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wig Wag difficulties
To update where I'm at - I paralleled two 75 ohm, 5w resistors on each
light and got solid flashing for the 20 minutes that I tested it. The
resistors are too hot to grip between fingers but not too hot to touch
lightly. I calc about .33A loss and about 4.16 watts. I might try some
50 ohm, 10w resistors which should save me a tenth of an amp and run
slightly cooler.
Ed
-
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Wig Wag difficulties |
>Adding a resistor across them defeats the
>purposes and the advantage is gone.
. . . by how much?
> your Gube Roldberg (I'm dyslexic) two resistor
> implementation will suck in less current . .
Incandescent lamps were king When that flasher
was first applied to OBAM aircraft, further,
the lowest cost solution for fabricating a useful wig-wag
installation was realized by incorporating an
automotive, 3-terminal flasher. Given that
three terminals are quickly used up with
two lamp outputs and one power input. For the
internals of this flasher to function, it needed
to seek a power ground through the OFF side
lamp.
This philosophy worked well in cars for decades
before flying a few decades more in airplanes.
When builders began the transition to LED
populated fixtures, it seems that the legacy
flasher technology was unable to secure a
operable ground through the newer lamp
technology.
The first design goal was to offer a means
by which existing incandescent installations
could be converted to LED with a minimum
of cost . . . and power 'wasted'. Experiments
conducted in our shop and on some airplanes
showed that the added resistors would allow
a quick and easy transition to LED.
75 ohms paralleled with the fixtures I
had access to appeared to be a good compromise
while adding only 0.2 amps to system loads
in the wig-wag mode.
Yes, they run too hot to touch . . . so do
battery contactors . . .
There were, and stall are, plans for replacing
the automotive flasher . . . but if the flasher
is not performing as needed in a new installation,
there has to be an explanation . . . which would
be interesting to know.
Had anyone offered an "LED compatible" wig-wag
flasher in a neat little box with the resistors
built in, few if any consumers would be aware
of them . . . and probably not inclined to
speak of them in pejoratives.
To be sure, there are more efficient alternatives
in new hardware . . . at a price in dollars
(and perhaps labor to make a change-out).
The notion that the resistors represent a significant
'waste' during battery only operations begs
the question as to what the total endurance loads
look like . . . I suggest that if one even
chooses to run wig-wag in a battery only
endurance mode . . . the resistor losses
are insignificant.
I'd like to think this forum is the place where
designs are explored and decisions made on
an analysis of measurements, outcome of
experiment and a quest for achieving design
goals . . . throwing sand and spit-balls is
not helpful.
Let's be good shepherd of electrons and see if we
can figure out why this one system is not
working as expected when hundreds of similar
systems have been flying for years.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Wig Wag difficulties |
At 01:09 PM 8/10/2016, you wrote:
>
>To update where I'm at - I paralleled two 75 ohm, 5w resistors on
>each light and got solid flashing for the 20 minutes that I tested
>it. The resistors are too hot to grip between fingers but not too
>hot to touch lightly. I calc about .33A loss and about 4.16 watts. I
>might try some 50 ohm, 10w resistors which should save me a tenth of
>an amp and run slightly cooler.
A power resistor running at rated dissipation
will sizzle-spit . . . over 100C surface
temperature. They just do that.
Your experiment suggests that the flasher
in hand is a bit more demanding of a low-
as-practical resistance to ground on the
OFF lamp.
I've had a couple builders use resistors
much like this
http://tinyurl.com/jroz29g
while rated at many more watts . . . if
not mounted to a heat sinking surface,
it too would be too hot to touch. The
handy thing about these guys is that
they're easy to mount on metal surface
that sharply reduces their operating
surface temperature.
And . . . of course . . . you can change
out the flasher for one more specific
to the application.
I've opened several versions of those
devices. One particular model was easily
converted to a 4-wire device by cutting
a trace on the board and soldering
on a ground wire to bring out of the case.
Then the need for 'grounding resistors'
goes away. But if the externally added
resistors is not a source of heartburn,
then I suspect the devices cited above
will do the job . . . and the price is
right.
Bob . . .
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