Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:38 AM - Re: rotax generator without battery (rayj)
2. 03:40 AM - Re: Skyview Screens and Z13/8 (iiNet)
3. 08:44 AM - Loom mounting (whodja)
4. 09:09 AM - Re: Loom mounting (Justin Jones)
5. 11:05 AM - battery contactor vs starter contactor wiring (Ken Ryan)
6. 12:02 PM - Re: battery contactor vs starter contactor wiring (Stephen Richards)
7. 12:04 PM - Wiring install 327/navwork/encoder (class4sanger)
8. 04:20 PM - Re: Wiring install 327/navwork/encoder (class4sanger)
9. 04:21 PM - Re: Wiring install 327/navwork/encoder (Tim Olson)
10. 04:47 PM - Thermostatic switch/relay (Carlos Trigo)
11. 09:31 PM - Re: Thermostatic switch/relay (Charlie England)
12. 09:37 PM - Re: Thermostatic switch/relay (user9253)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: rotax generator without battery |
I didn't catch that the primary pump was switchable. I made the mistake
of assuming that it was wired direct to the engine driven power supply
(a la a mechanical pump). Sounds foolish now that I see it in print.
As long as the battery can crank the engine long enough to pressurize
the oil system sufficiently, is should work. Or, you could start with
the primary, and immediately switch to aux pump for ground operations,
then both on takeoff. I'm sure with a little T&E it can be worked out.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty,
understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system.
And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness,
egotism and self-interest are the traits of success. And while men
admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second.
-John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate (1902-1968)
On 10/07/2016 11:44 PM, Ken Ryan wrote:
> Raymond,
>
> I don't see a problem verifying that the system is functioning properly.
> Startup procedure would be:
>
> 1. Flip auxiliary fuel pump switch on (nothing happens)
> 2. Engage starter (simultaneously sends power to the aux pump)
> 3. Oil pressure rises, engine starts
> 4. Starter is disengaged
> 5. Engine continues to run
>
> At this point the auxiliary fuel system has been checked. All that
> remains is to power up the main fuel pump and then turn off the aux
> pump. If the engine continues to run, the main fuel pump check out.
>
> Incidentally, it turns out that no relay is necessary. The pressure
> switch is adequately rated for the pump current.
>
> Ken
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 4:30 PM, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net
> <mailto:raymondj@frontiernet.net>> wrote:
>
> <raymondj@frontiernet.net <mailto:raymondj@frontiernet.net>>
>
> I agree with Ken's analysis. Several scenarios where the auto
> shutoff would be a benefit: Snag a wheel and invert on t/o or
> landing; Challenging cross wind landing goes bad; Failure to clear
> and obstacle on t/o or landing; Bird strike; Deer strike;
> Encounter with extraterrestrial beings; and the ever popular item
> with insurance companies -Act of God-.
>
> If it were my aircraft, I'd put in an 'engine not in operation'
> detection system of some sort. Oil pressure switches have a long
> history of reliable operation in the field. The only issue I see is
> verifying the system is functioning properly during preflight/startup.
>
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN
>
> The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness,
> honesty, understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure
> in our system. And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed,
> acquisitiveness, meanness, egotism and self-interest are the traits
> of success. And while men admire the quality of the first they love
> the produce of the second. -John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate
> (1902-1968)
>
> On 10/07/2016 04:58 PM, Ken Ryan wrote:
>
> Charlie,
>
> The primary pump is powered by the integrated generator, so it
> already
> has auto shut off.
>
> What are the odds? Well, in off airport operations here in
> Alaska the
> odds are probably higher than high altitude ops over midwest
> farm fields
> from one 6,000 foot paved runways to the next. I know more than
> one guy
> who has flipped his airplane, and they all say the same thing: it
> happened in an instant with no warning. Fortunately, they all
> walked away.
>
> Ken
>
> On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 1:41 PM, Charlie England
> <ceengland7@gmail.com <mailto:ceengland7@gmail.com>
> <mailto:ceengland7@gmail.com <mailto:ceengland7@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
> It really comes down to probability, modified by your
> personal risk
> tolerance. What are the odds of actually needing the auto-off
> function of the aux pump (remember that in t/o-landing modes the
> other pump will be running, too; what auto-protects that
> one?), vs
> the likelihood of needing the backup pump (primary failure) and
> risking any one of the various wires, connectors, pressure
> switch,
> pressure *line*, etc causing loss of the pump? Or actually
> *causing*
> a problem (pressure line or pressure switch opening an oil
> exit path
> comes to mind...).
>
> In the 'simple' scenario, the aux pump switch mounted next
> to the
> primary pump switch allows one swipe to get both, if a crash is
> imminent.
>
> But if the auto feature makes you more comfortable, go for it.
>
> Charlie
>
> On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Ken Ryan
> <keninalaska@gmail.com <mailto:keninalaska@gmail.com>
> <mailto:keninalaska@gmail.com
> <mailto:keninalaska@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
> Alec,
>
> I'm not sure where you got the idea that the auxiliary pump
> would be running all the time. It would indeed be used
> only for
> takeoffs and landings, via a toggle switch. But
> inserting the
> pressure switch and the relay would insure that in the
> event of
> a crash, such as on takeoff or landing, the auxiliary
> pump would
> automatically shut down when the engine ceases to turn
> (because
> the oil pressure would drop).
>
> Ken
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Alec Myers
> <alec@alecmyers.com <mailto:alec@alecmyers.com>
> <mailto:alec@alecmyers.com <mailto:alec@alecmyers.com>>>
> wrote:
>
> That's very reasonable; why not just have an on-off
> switch
> for the backup pump? Switch it on on the ground to
> test, on
> for takeoff and landing and off the rest of the time.
>
> Is there a benefit to having it run full time in
> parallel
> with the main pump? how do you tell if the main pump has
> failed if the backup is already running?
>
>
> On Oct 7, 2016, at 15:19, Ken Ryan
> <keninalaska@gmail.com <mailto:keninalaska@gmail.com>
> <mailto:keninalaska@gmail.com
> <mailto:keninalaska@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
> Rotax operating procedures for 914 call for running both
> electric fuel pumps for takeoff and landings.
>
> On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 10:59 AM, Alec Myers
> <alec@alecmyers.com <mailto:alec@alecmyers.com>
> <mailto:alec@alecmyers.com <mailto:alec@alecmyers.com>>> wrote:
>
> In that case why do you need the backup pump
> energised
> at all, absent a main fuel pump failure?
>
> Many (most?) TC aircraft with fuel injection or
> low-wing
> tanks have an electric backup pump but it's
> either on
> only for takeoff and landing and switching tanks
> (Piper,
> Grumman) or only used for priming and in the
> event of
> engine storage due to main pump failure (Cessna)
>
> I'm not familiar with the proposed system so If the
> backup pump is permanently energised what alerts the
> pilot to a failure of the engine-driven pump?
>
>
> On Oct 7, 2016, at 12:27 PM, Ken Ryan
> <keninalaska@gmail.com
> <mailto:keninalaska@gmail.com> <mailto:keninalaska@gmail.com
> <mailto:keninalaska@gmail.com>>>
> wrote:
>
> I think maybe some of you are not factoring
> in that
> this is on the auxiliary fuel pump only. So
> for a
> failure of the switch or relay to have any
> effect on
> the flight, the main fuel pump would have
> already had
> to fail. The primary fuel pump stops
> automatically
> when the engine stops turning because it is
> powered
> off the generator.
>
> As far as startup, I think the way the
> pressure switch
> works is that it is a single pole, double
> throw. So
> there are three terminals: Comm, L1, and L2.
> Without
> pressure, Comm is connected to L2. With
> pressure, Comm
> is connected to L1.
>
> The Comm goes to the fuel pump relay.
> L1 goes to a fuel pump switch.
> L2 goes to the starter side of the starter
> relay.
>
> So at startup, because the pressure switch
> without
> pressure is connected Comm-L2 only, closing
> the fuel
> pump switch would do nothing. But when
> cranking power
> is put to the starter, current would flow to
> the relay
> through the Comm-L2 connection. Then, when
> the engine
> starts and current is removed from the starter
> circuit, power continues to flow the fuel
> pump relay
> because now with 7lbs of oil pressure Comm is
> connected to L1 (and the switch has been
> turned on).
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 7:30 AM, John Tipton
> <jmtipton@btopenworld.com
> <mailto:jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
> <mailto:jmtipton@btopenworld.com
> <mailto:jmtipton@btopenworld.com>>> wrote:
>
> Q: how does the engine get it's fuel for
> start-up,
> the engine being off ie: no oil pressure
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> ----x--O--x----
>
> On 7 Oct 2016, at 02:51 pm,
> ashleysc@broadstripe.net
> <mailto:ashleysc@broadstripe.net>
> <mailto:ashleysc@broadstripe.net
> <mailto:ashleysc@broadstripe.net>> wrote:
>
> Hi Ken;
> Advice from an old
> electro-mechanical engineer
> (now 76) and new pilot (@ 70): Keep
> the pilot in
> charge of turning things off.
> Cheers! Stu.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"GTH" <gilles.thesee@free.fr
> <mailto:gilles.thesee@free.fr>
> <mailto:gilles.thesee@free.fr
> <mailto:gilles.thesee@free.fr>>>
> *To:
> *aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>
> <mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>>
> *Sent: *Friday, October 7, 2016
> 12:17:19 AM
> *Subject: *Re: AeroElectric-List:
> rotax generator
> without battery
>
> /Le 07/10/2016 02:09, Ken Ryan a
> crit :
> /
>
> /I found this Pressure Switch
>
> <https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crt-a68301
> <https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crt-a68301>> which
> seems to be a viable way
> (combined with a
> relay) of automatically turning
> off the
> auxiliary fuel pump when the
> engine stops
> turning./
>
>
> Your call. You'll make your engine
> operation
> dependent on a switch and a relay.
> "On a switch and a prayer" ;-)
> --
> Best regards,
> Gilles
> http://contrails.free.fr
> http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr
> <http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr>
> <http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr
> <http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr>>
>
>
> ===================================
> -
> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> ===================================
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Skyview Screens and Z13/8 |
I have two 7" screens and both have the Dynon backup batteries ... plenty of
time to divert in an emergency with one running and the other off if necess
ary to extend endurance. 7" uses less power than the 10" too.
Kind Regards, Stu
Sent from my iPhone
> On 8 Oct. 2016, at 00:41, Sebastien <cluros@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> My understanding is you only put what you need to safely conclude the flig
ht on the ebus so primary EFIS only.
>
> I would also highly recommend you put both screens on the pilot side so th
at if one fails, the other one is in front of you, not the passenger.
>
>> On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 9:17 AM, Jared Yates <email@jaredyates.com> wrote:
>> I'm considering installation of a Dynon Skyview system with two 7" screen
s, and wondering how to best power them. I've got plenty of room on the ebus
from a load analysis standpoint, but is it better to put one screen on the m
ain bus in case the ebus were to short? Is there any issue with having a hal
f volt difference powering the two screens? How has everyone else been doing
it?
>
Message 3
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I have to install loom in the wing rib lightning holes. Any recommendations on
how to adhere it to the edge of the hole? The loom runs the length of the wing
perpendicular to the ribs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461093#461093
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Loom mounting |
This is how I mounted mine (not an RV-10)
I then used an adel clamp and mounted it to the angle.
> On Oct 9, 2016, at 00:41, whodja <whodja@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I have to install loom in the wing rib lightning holes. Any recommendation
s on how to adhere it to the edge of the hole? The loom runs the length of t
he wing perpendicular to the ribs.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461093#461093
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | battery contactor vs starter contactor wiring |
Reviewing 13/8 I notice that the battery contactor jumps power from the big
terminal and then switches the coil ground, but the starter contactor
switches coil positive. Why do it differently on one than the other?
Ken
Message 6
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| Subject: | battery contactor vs starter contactor wiring |
I would say for safety if starter solenoid was switched on negative side an
y grounding fault would energies solenoid with positive switching a ground
would blow fuse a connection to another positive less likely.
With battery solenoid if switched positive it would require a fused positiv
e supply from battery to switch to solenoid, any ground fault would blow fu
se and de energise solenoid, with negative switching any ground fault will
retain solenoid, if on switched side it would energise solenoid but this s
hould not cause any danger unless you happened to have crashed.
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: "Ken Ryan" <keninalaska@gmail.com>
Sent: =8E08/=8E10/=8E2016 19:13
Subject: AeroElectric-List: battery contactor vs starter contactor wiring
Reviewing 13/8 I notice that the battery contactor jumps power from the big
terminal and then switches the coil ground, but the starter contactor swit
ches coil positive. Why do it differently on one than the other?
Ken
Message 7
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| Subject: | Wiring install 327/navwork/encoder |
Loose pin in the 327 connector or something fried my 327. Now I am paranoid about
putting in a new one. Questions??? on the 327 pin 13 and 25 are the same ground?
13 shows power and 25 shows signal ground? Arent they the same thing? Do
both need to be grounded? navworx wants to be connected to 13, so is that tied
into the pin or just grounded at same location? navworx also wants altitude
ground to pin 13 or 25, again tied into pin or just grounded at same location?
Thanks
Keith
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461102#461102
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Wiring install 327/navwork/encoder |
I think I figured it out after talking to some folks. But more important. If the
navworx wants to connect on the garmin 327 ground pin 13, where would you tie
that in? Awful hard to get 2 wires into a small dsub pin. Splice after the connector?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461104#461104
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| Subject: | Re: Wiring install 327/navwork/encoder |
I'm sure they are both at the same ground potential, but I would put any
wires carrying higher current on that Pin 13 since that's the power ground.
For a signal ground like the RS232 running to NavWorX, it won't matter
which ground you attach it to. In fact, not that I'd recommend this, but,
if all of your avionics are grounded to the same ground point, it is fairly
likely that most of the RS232 signals would talk even if you left the
signal ground wires off, simply due to the fact that most of the systems
will
have the signal ground tied to the same ground potential as the
power ground. But again, I'm not recommending that, just saying that
in theory it would probably work without it. The signal isn't carrying
much current so either pin will be OK for the signal ground in your
case. That doesn't mean the pins are the same, so when connecting the
system power and ground, use the pins that are specified for that purpose.
Tim
On 10/8/2016 2:02 PM, class4sanger wrote:
>
> Loose pin in the 327 connector or something fried my 327. Now I am paranoid about
putting in a new one. Questions??? on the 327 pin 13 and 25 are the same
ground? 13 shows power and 25 shows signal ground? Arent they the same thing?
Do both need to be grounded? navworx wants to be connected to 13, so is that tied
into the pin or just grounded at same location? navworx also wants altitude
ground to pin 13 or 25, again tied into pin or just grounded at same location?
>
> Thanks
> Keith
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Thermostatic switch/relay |
Guys
I installed a couple of cooling fans in my RV-10 dashboard, actually copying other
builders idea, to extract heated air from the back of the avionics, which
is blown in the inside face of the windshield, thus also serving as a windshield
defrost system.
I am planning to use a 3 position switch, off, on, and automatic, in which this
last position is to be connected to a thermostatic switch/relay that will turn
on the coolers only when the temperature behind the avionics reaches a preset
or an adjustable temperature.
Will somebody please point me to such a thermostatic switch/relay, and a source
for it.
Thanks
Carlos
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Thermostatic switch/relay |
On 10/8/2016 6:26 PM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
>
> Guys
>
> I installed a couple of cooling fans in my RV-10 dashboard, actually copying
other builders idea, to extract heated air from the back of the avionics, which
is blown in the inside face of the windshield, thus also serving as a windshield
defrost system.
>
> I am planning to use a 3 position switch, off, on, and automatic, in which this
last position is to be connected to a thermostatic switch/relay that will turn
on the coolers only when the temperature behind the avionics reaches a preset
or an adjustable temperature.
>
> Will somebody please point me to such a thermostatic switch/relay, and a source
for it.
>
> Thanks
> Carlos
I googled '12 volt thermostat'.
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=12%20volt%20thermostat
The 1st one I checked says it will do both heating & cooling:
https://www.amazon.com/12V-Digital-Temperature-Controller-Thermostat/dp/B00C4TEEF2
Web site for it:
http://www.thermomart.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=149
Does that help, as a starting point?
Charlie
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Thermostatic switch/relay |
https://www.amazon.com/RioRand-Thermostat-Temperature-Controller-Waterproof/dp/B00KCCX0EE
https://www.amazon.com/12V-Digital-Temperature-Controller-Thermostat/dp/B00C4TEEF2
Make your own electronic temperature controller:
http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/21448D.pdf
It will not hurt anything to leave the fans running continuously.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461109#461109
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