---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 10/25/16: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:23 AM - Re: Z16 Rotax 912 problem (user9253) 2. 07:15 AM - Yet another Smartphone app for Aviation (rampil) 3. 07:22 AM - Re: Z16 Rotax 912 problem (romaja) 4. 08:26 AM - Re: Z16 Rotax 912 problem (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 11:54 AM - Re: Z16 Rotax 912 problem (romaja) 6. 02:55 PM - Re: Z16 Rotax 912 problem (user9253) 7. 07:00 PM - Re: Re: Z16 Rotax 912 problem (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:45 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z16 Rotax 912 problem From: "user9253" The over-voltage module is tripping the circuit breaker. Options are: Replace the O.V. module with one not so sensitive. Remove the O.V. module. Put a filter in series with the O.V. module consisting of an inductor and capacitor. Leave it as is and reset the breaker whenever it trips. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461601#461601 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:56 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Yet another Smartphone app for Aviation From: "rampil" Hi All, First, let me note that the bug which prevented all barometer apps (think avAltimeter) from working in iOS 10 is now resolved in the newly released iOS 10.1. iOS 10.1 now prevents many apps from displaying landscape mode properly, but at least the altimeter is working! My new app is called Aviation Sunset Calculator in the App Store (on your device it will be "Civil Twilight" (it's shorter for display!)). This app provides all three night and day times required by FARs for night operation. What makes this app unique among the sunset apps already out there is that I perform all the celestial mechanics calculations inside the phone/iPad. Other apps use the internet to call out to the Naval Observatory or some other time server. Other useful features in this app include an internal database of all aerodromes with runways, worldwide, and the ability to change the the date forwards or backwards in time. If you do have an internet connection, you can even find the twilight times for any valid street address on earth. So, for example, you can use this app while airborne to find the expected twilight times at your destination. Since the FAA makes life interesting with regulations mandating three different times to reference for night operations, I also include the relevant FARs in the app's Help pages. The web page for this app is http://www.aviametrix.com/sunset/ The web page for the altimeter app is http://www.aviametrix.com -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461602#461602 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:27 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z16 Rotax 912 problem From: "romaja" Thank you very much. Jim :D Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461604#461604 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:26:16 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z16 Rotax 912 problem At 09:43 PM 10/24/2016, you wrote: > >I am performing the first few initial flight on a Rans S-20 Raven >with a Rotax 912 ULS engine. > >My wiring is based on the Z16 architecture using the S704-1 >alternator OV disconnect and crowbar OV protection. So far >everything is working just fine with one exception. > >I noticed running the engine on the ground and once in the air that >the 5 amp Gen breaker popped. This is the breaker between the main >bus and the master switch. On both occasions, I reset it and it did >not pop again. > >I am using the S700 2-10 switch as my master switch. The battery I >am using is an EarthX Lithium Iron 680. > >Whilst in flight I was testing a coolant heater fan and when placed >on high will draw 8 amps. Moments later I noticed the 5 amp breaker >had popped. Possibly a coincidence. > >Normal amp draw in flight is around 7 or 8 amps without this heater >running and a charged battery. > > > Any ideas what is causing this CB to pop? Sounds like a 'twitchy' ov module. If you'll send it to me I'll check it an correct as necessary. It's not 'unsafe' to fly without it in the interim. Bob Nuckolls PO Box 130 Medicine Lodge, KS 67104-0130 Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:54:50 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z16 Rotax 912 problem From: "romaja" Sounds like a 'twitchy' ov module. If you'll send it to me I'll check it an correct as necessary. It's not 'unsafe' to fly without it in the interim. Bob Nuckolls PO Box 130 Medicine Lodge, KS 67104-0130 Bob . . .[/quote] Thank you Bob, I will send it to you. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461615#461615 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:55:08 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z16 Rotax 912 problem From: "user9253" Jim, take Bob up on his offer. I am not familiar with a 704 module, unless you are talking about the relay, which is very unlikely to trip the breaker. Since you have a SkyView, can you download the data log and analyze it? MS Excel can search for the maximum voltage. If the voltage really is high, then the crowbar over voltage module is doing its job by tripping the breaker. I can not recommend a filter, usually they do not help much. Search Amazon for "Noise Filter". Many modern avionics can be powered by either 14 or 28 volts, so over voltage is not as big of a concern as it used to be. On the other hand, the Lithium battery does not like over voltage. Do you have high and low voltage alarms set up in the SkyView? -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461621#461621 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:08 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z16 Rotax 912 problem At 04:53 PM 10/25/2016, you wrote: > >Jim, take Bob up on his offer. I am not familiar with a 704 module, >unless you are talking about the relay, which is very unlikely to >trip the breaker. Here are the details http://tinyurl.com/japwbsu Yes, the S704 is a relay used in conjunction with a crowbar ov module in Rotax installations . . . http://tinyurl.com/7vp9g4e > Since you have a SkyView, can you download the data log and > analyze it? MS Excel can search for the maximum voltage. If the > voltage really is high, then the crowbar over voltage module is > doing its job by tripping the breaker. I have had a FEW . . . meaning two or three in 20 years . . . instances where switching some appliance on or off in a composite aircraft would trip the AEC9003 or the B&C clone of this device. A little background on ov protection products . . . the very first product I designed for TC aircraft was about 1974 and I had just gone to work for Electro-Mech, Inc. in Wichita. It was an over-voltage RELAY and the design goal of the moment was that a step increase of sensed voltage from normal (14.2) to 20.0 volts would cause a trip in 100mS plus or minus perhaps 10mS. That was the 'comfortable' requirement embraced by the TC aircraft industry at that time. Yet, even in 1974, a DO160 qualified, 14v appliance had to withstand 20 volts for ONE SECOND, and 40 volts for 100mS. Having roots of design philosophy fertilize in that environment, my OV protection designs have tended to run on, shall we say, the 'twitchy' side of trip sensitivity. On the whole, not a terrible decision. Since that time, perhaps 10,000 ov relays (and crowbar ov modules) have been designed and manufactured to that design philosophy . . . and nuisance trips by the exceptional transient event have been VERY rare. But I have personally attend to two such events and there have, no doubt, be a few others. The 'fix' has been to modify the CbOVM for those airplanes with longer time constants . . . typically 2 to 5 times the original design goal. ALL future ov protection systems originating from this writer's CAD system will shoot for a 500mS response to a 20 volt event and a 50mS response to a 40v event. Further, timing will no longer be controlled by RC time constants and trip-voltage of some semiconductor. Future designs are microprocessor sampled and time under software control. > I can not recommend a filter, usually they do not help > much. Search Amazon for "Noise Filter". Many modern avionics can > be powered by either 14 or 28 volts, so over voltage is not as big > of a concern as it used to be. On the other hand, the Lithium > battery does not like over voltage. Do you have high and low > voltage alarms set up in the SkyView? He is very unlikely to see a REAL ov event on the data storage system. Since the even occurs in response to some switching event, we're 99% sure that the 'problem' originates with a singularly noisy event driving a ov protection design with some rather ancient roots in legacy operating philosophies. So yes, the 'fix' is to simply slow down the OV protection sense profile by a factor of 4 or 5 times which is still very conservative compared to DO-160 qualification requirements. Bob . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.