Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:39 AM - Re: IBBS battery with B and C alternators? (Peter Pengilly)
2. 02:28 AM - Re: IBBS battery with B and C alternators? (Tcwtech)
3. 08:14 AM - Re: IBBS battery with B and C alternators? (user9253)
4. 09:54 AM - Re: Re: IBBS battery with B and C alternators? (Alec Myers)
5. 10:13 AM - Re: IBBS battery with B and C alternators? (user9253)
6. 03:26 PM - Re: Re: IBBS battery with B and C alternators? (Alec Myers)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: IBBS battery with B and C alternators? |
I don't really understand what you mean by 'one way'? If the alternator and
ibbs are both connected to the bus bar current will flow to the device with
the lower potential, for the circuit to work they must also be grounded. If
the master relay fails why won't everything keep working until you land?
Why do you need a additional battery? Master relay failure is rare.
Peter
On 23 Dec 2016 02:11, "William Greenley" <wgreenley@gmail.com> wrote:
I understand how the IBBS battery system works as a backup, and that is why
I am buying. What I am trying to figure out is since alternators (at least
most included B & C's) need the battery to be online to "buffer" the
alternator output, does the IBBS battery charging line on the main bus
offer any of this "buffer" capability so that an alterntor would keep
running even if he main contactor were to fail. I am thinking it would not
since the charge line is one way only, the IBBS battery would not put out
any current unless their was a power failure.
On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 8:34 PM, Tcwtech <rnewman@tcwtech.com> wrote:
>
> The IBBS will detect any failure of the main bus that results in a bus
> voltage falling below 11 volts, regardless of the cause. When this
> occurs, backup battery voltage will be provided to all of the connected
> equipment powered via the outputs of the ibbs.
>
> Bob Newman
> TCW Technologies, LLC
> 610-928-3420
>
> > On Dec 22, 2016, at 10:34 AM, William Greenley <wgreenley@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Still learning about alternators and have a question. Building an RV-10
> with IO-540 engine. Have to mount on the engine BC460-H belt driven 60 amp
> alternator, and BC410-H accessory case mounted backup alternator. Thinking
> about failure scenarios. My understanding is that a master contactor or
> battery failure would take out both alternators as they need a battery
> online to help control the operation of the alternator. With the IBBS 6 AH
> battery having a charging line off of the main power bus, would that have
> any influence on this?
> > Bill Greenley
>
>
> =====================================
> br> fts!)
> r> > com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.
> buildersbooks.com
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> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> ===================================
> -
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: IBBS battery with B and C alternators? |
The charge/sense line will not provide any substantial buffering of the main
bus. It is an input only and the ibbs battery is not "seen by" the main bu
s. There is a series of input capacitors amounting to about 40 uF from our e
mi filter that the voltage regulator of the alternator would see, but to the
extent that this satisfies the control loop in the alternator/regulator sys
tem we really can not comment.
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies, LLC
610-928-3420
> On Dec 22, 2016, at 8:58 PM, William Greenley <wgreenley@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I understand how the IBBS battery system works as a backup, and that is wh
y I am buying. What I am trying to figure out is since alternators (at least
most included B & C's) need the battery to be online to "buffer" the altern
ator output, does the IBBS battery charging line on the main bus offer any o
f this "buffer" capability so that an alterntor would keep running even if h
e main contactor were to fail. I am thinking it would not since the charge l
ine is one way only, the IBBS battery would not put out any current unless t
heir was a power failure.
>
>> On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 8:34 PM, Tcwtech <rnewman@tcwtech.com> wrote:
>>
>> The IBBS will detect any failure of the main bus that results in a bus vo
ltage falling below 11 volts, regardless of the cause. When this occurs, b
ackup battery voltage will be provided to all of the connected equipment pow
ered via the outputs of the ibbs.
>>
>> Bob Newman
>> TCW Technologies, LLC
>> 610-928-3420
>>
>> > On Dec 22, 2016, at 10:34 AM, William Greenley <wgreenley@gmail.com> wr
ote:
>> >
>> > Still learning about alternators and have a question. Building an RV-10
with IO-540 engine. Have to mount on the engine BC460-H belt driven 60 amp a
lternator, and BC410-H accessory case mounted backup alternator. Thinking ab
out failure scenarios. My understanding is that a master contactor or batter
y failure would take out both alternators as they need a battery online to h
elp control the operation of the alternator. With the IBBS 6 AH battery havi
ng a charging line off of the main power bus, would that have any influence o
n this?
>> > Bill Greenley
>>
>>
>> =========================
============
>> br> fts!)
>> r> > com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.buildersboo
ks.com
>> p.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> e.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
>> " rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.mrrace.com
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> =========================
>> -
>> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> =========================
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> =========================
>> WIKI -
>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>> =========================
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
>> =========================
>>
>>
>>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: IBBS battery with B and C alternators? |
Here is a circuit for those concerned about the master contactor failing. An automotive
relay is connected in parallel with the master contactor. The relay
is disabled during engine starting to prevent excessive current from flowing
through the relay contacts. Prior to turning on the master contactor, the relay
can be energized to be sure that it works. The relay must be shut off to
start the engine. After engine start, the relay may be turned back on. If the
alternator fails, the battery master contactor can be shut off to conserve energy.
During cruise flight, the relay will only carry battery charging current. Aircraft
load current will flow directly from the alternator to the main power bus,
not through the relay.
When playing with avionics in the hangar with the engine off, the relay can be
turned on instead of master contactor. Notice that the arrows on arc-suppression
diodes point towards positive.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464274#464274
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/contactor_bypass_462.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/contactor_bypass_143.jpg
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: IBBS battery with B and C alternators? |
If you're going to that much trouble why not just have two independently switched
contactors?
> On Dec 23, 2016, at 11:13 AM, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Here is a circuit for those concerned about the master contactor failing. An
automotive relay is connected in parallel with the master contactor. The relay
is disabled during engine starting to prevent excessive current from flowing
through the relay contacts. Prior to turning on the master contactor, the
relay can be energized to be sure that it works. The relay must be shut off to
start the engine. After engine start, the relay may be turned back on. If
the alternator fails, the battery master contactor can be shut off to conserve
energy.
> During cruise flight, the relay will only carry battery charging current. Aircraft
load current will flow directly from the alternator to the main power bus,
not through the relay.
> When playing with avionics in the hangar with the engine off, the relay can
be turned on instead of master contactor. Notice that the arrows on arc-suppression
diodes point towards positive.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464274#464274
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/contactor_bypass_462.pdf
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/contactor_bypass_143.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: IBBS battery with B and C alternators? |
> If you're going to that much trouble why not just have two independently switched
contactors?
There is not much trouble, same number of components either way. The relay has
the advantage of less current, less weight, less cost, and less space. I am
not necessarily recommending this circuit. Just offering it for others who want
redundancy.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464278#464278
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: IBBS battery with B and C alternators? |
The only contactor failure I've had is when it welded itself shut, due to a short
in the starter motor. It's quite unusual not being able to turn off the aircraft..
On 23Dec2016, at 7:12 PM, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you're going to that much trouble why not just have two independently switched
contactors?
There is not much trouble, same number of components either way. The relay has
the advantage of less current, less weight, less cost, and less space. I am
not necessarily recommending this circuit. Just offering it for others who want
redundancy.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464278#464278
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