Today's Message Index:
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1. 07:08 AM - Re: Conduit implementation, was Best dimensions for conduits (GLEN MATEJCEK)
2. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: Conduit implementation, was Best dimensions for conduits (GTH)
3. 10:27 AM - Re: Re: Z-13/8 and SD-8 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 12:02 PM - Re: EFII ignition and injection Z-13/8 (johnbright)
5. 12:47 PM - Re: EFII ignition and injection Z-13/8 (johnbright)
6. 06:23 PM - EMI From Seat Heaters and Other Questions (William Hunter)
7. 06:57 PM - SD-20/SD-60 Question (William Hunter)
8. 08:01 PM - Re: SD-20/SD-60 Question (user9253)
9. 08:52 PM - Re: EMI From Seat Heaters and Other Questions (Eric Page)
10. 09:03 PM - Re: Z-13/8 and SD-8 (johnbright)
11. 10:05 PM - Re: SD-20/SD-60 Question (johnbright)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Conduit implementation, was Best dimensions for |
conduits
I used non-split corrugated loom, secured with safety wire. Secure,
permanent, flexible, adjustable, redoable, and easy.
I used heavy duty synthetic cord, perhaps 1/16 dia and very flexible as a
fish line. Scrap dowel with a dia about 3/4 of the ID of the conduit was
made into toggles about 1 1/2" long and tied to the ends of lines just over
twice the length of the conduit. I used a blow gun to send the line down
the conduit, wondering just how far it would go before hanging up. It shot
out the other end, across the shop, and bounced off the far wall. (That's
when I installed the second toggle...) The length allows the line to do
the job, be reset to the other original position, and pulled again, or used
bidirectionally. Duct tape attaches the wire to the line and makes a
smooth cone to avoid snags in the conduit. The toggles prevent the end of
the line from disappearing into the conduit. Yes, the 4 pulling lines
probably add 4, perhaps 5 oz. to my empty weight....
*SNIP*
"Leaving a "tied-off" line in the conduit to help pull a new wire through
is a great idea. But remember that when you use that line to pull the
next wire through, you need to also pull through another "spare" line to
tie off, awaiting your inevitable "next" wire pull..."
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Conduit implementation, was Best dimensions |
for conduits
/Le 03/01/2017 16:02, GLEN MATEJCEK a crit :
/
> /
>
> I used non-split corrugated loom, secured with safety wire. Secure,
> permanent, flexible, adjustable, redoable, and easy./
>
Hi all,
Thank you everyone for the great suggestions.
It is unusual to have to complain about having to large and too clean a
passage in the wing.
Now is the choice of a means for securing the conduit/loom inside the
leading edge to prevent it from moving or flapping around.
Best wishes for 2017,
--
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 and SD-8 |
At 08:00 AM 1/2/2017, you wrote:
>
>It would be interesting to read about why the two diodes and
>resistor work and why the SD-8 will not work without them (unless a
>battery is connected).
>
>--------
>Joe Gores
>
>
Here's a close approximation of the Ducati product used by Rotax. This
illustrates the general architecture of most rectifier/regulators over
the past 20 years or so . . .
Emacs!
If you noodle through fuctionality of the circuit, you find a bridge
rectifier consisting of two diodes with cathodes tied to the output
terminal(s) . . . two silicon rectifiers with anodes connected to
ground. Control electronics for the SCRs gets power through the
"C" terminal.
With no source of power at "C" and "B" . . . the control electronics
are dark. With no control electronics, the SCRs are dormant. The
AC output from a rotating dynamo is unavailable for use.
Emacs!
Adding a battery . . . even a badly discharged battery of under 10 volts
will wake up the control electronics which in turn flogs the SCRs into
action and the Dynamo/R-R system wakes up.
Adding a couple of diodes external to the R-R along with a
current limiting resistor creates the equivalent 'leaky SCRs'
where rectification through the R-R is never zero. Small but
never zero.
In the absence of a load on the usual capacitor across the
R-R output terminals, this small energy source will charge the
capacitor to a voltage that will wake-up the control electronics
and bring the system on line.
This works only if there are no loads on the system's output
that over-taxes the weak, wake-up source.
Bob . . .
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: EFII ignition and injection Z-13/8 |
Extensive discussion from August 2014:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=104794
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464663#464663
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: EFII ignition and injection Z-13/8 |
I have concerns about EFII's Bus Manager and dual fuel pump wiring failure modes.
I do not plan to use Bus Manager and I will have separate switches and wires
for each fuel pump as well as the ECUs.
I have learned that Z19 and Z07, dual battery single alternator, are intended for
engines that do not allow dual alternators. Bob Nuckolls points us to Z12 or
Z13/8 for Lycomings and others that can mount dual alternators.
Robert Paisley reports system current draw:
======================
"jmjones2000(at)mindspring, PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:30 am Post subject:
Z-19 Function, I just heard back from Robert, EFII power demands on the 12v
system, ECUs draw about .1 amps ea, ignition coils draw about 2.3 amps ea at
high rpm, one fuel pump draws a little under 5A."
======================
I wish EFII had better current draw info to share so I could compare to SD-8 output
versus RPM. I can only assume from the above that "ECU" means injector ECU
plus injectors and "ignition coils" means ignition electronics plus coils. I
don't know if pump current varies with injector flow.
What Robert Paisley emailed me is "the full system is a little under 10 amps at
high rpm. About half of that is for the fuel pump."
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464666#464666
Message 6
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| Subject: | EMI From Seat Heaters and Other Questions |
Hi AeroElectric Cyber Friends!!!
I figured I would bounce these questions off of the folks on this forum.
Over at the Velocity Aircraft Forum we have some questions with respect to
EMI from 12 VDC supplemental cabin heat systems such as heated seats, heated
blankets (such as an electric blanket that you plug into the cigarette
lighter), and/or a 12 volt electric heating element heater.
QUESTION 1: Would the heat blanket/seat system affect the magnetometer on
the aircraft? The 12 VDC electric heater has a motor and an element so that
certainly might cause issues. If so how far away would you consider it the
reasonable distance from the magnetometer to the heated element in the
blanket/seat?
QUESTION 2: If the heated seat would cause EMI, is it possible to mitigate
the EMI by "polarizing" the seat inserts (placing one element in one
direction and the other in the opposite direction? This is the heated seat
kit I bought for my aircraft:
<https://www.amazon.com/Water-Carbon-Premium-Heated-Seats/dp/B00AKEVNP2/ref
sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1483494619&sr=8-10&keywords=car%2Bheated%2Bseats&th=1>
https://www.amazon.com/Water-Carbon-Premium-Heated-Seats/dp/B00AKEVNP2/ref=s
r_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1483494619&sr=8-10&keywords=car%2Bheated%2Bseats&th=1
QUESTION 3: Would an electric seat/blanket cause radio noise? If so what
can one do to mitigate the noise?
QUESTION 4: How much heat would a small 12 VDC electric element heater
system realistically put out? This is the one we have been discussing it is
designed for a RV unit:
<http://www.my12voltstore.com/12_Volt_Ducted_Heater_p/sd12-4000.htm>
http://www.my12voltstore.com/12_Volt_Ducted_Heater_p/sd12-4000.htm
Does anybody happen to have any experience with this particular unit and to
see if it's worth the cost / weight penalty involved in hauling this thing
around. I was thinking of installing this under the instrument panel and
using it as a defroster by directing the "heated" air toward the windshield.
We are in a "heated discussion" on how to add a heat source to the airplane.
The only heat in the velocity airplane design is an oil cooler mounted in
the nose and that air/oil heat exchanger is used for cabin heat.the problem
being that outside air is blown through the oil cooler and into the cabin
and naturally during cold months the OAT is significantly cold and therefore
the heat increase is not very efficient plus the fact that our air cooled
engines may not be producing that much oil temperature to begin with so we
are dreaming of ways to supplement our interior heat.
Any suggestions/feedback/experience would be greatly appreciated!!!
THANKS!!!
Bill Hunter
Message 7
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| Subject: | SD-20/SD-60 Question |
Hi Again.On a Roll Tonight I guess!!!
I am running a SD-60 and a LR3C-14 Voltage Regulator on one bus with its own
battery and a SD-20 with its own LR3C-14 Voltage Regulator on the second bus
with its own battery. The engine is a Lycoming IO-540.
QUESTION 1: I intend to operate my two electrical systems isolated with a
bus tie that will be used for engine start only and then untied afterwards.
What happens if I forget to untie the two busses after engine start and both
the SD-60 and the SD-20 are providing current to the combined system? Do
they share the load equally on the combined system? What happens should the
system load reach 50 AMPS? Does the SD-20 simply max out at 20 AMPS and
then the SD-60 picks up the rest of the 30 AMPS?
QUESTION 2: If I do remember to untie the busses.What happens to the single
system when there is a temporary current spike on that isolated system?
Example: Should the alternator be running at 90 percent of its capacity and
then the electric landing gear hydraulic pump cycles and draws another 25-30
AMPS. Does the voltage regulator simply limit the alternator output to its
max output of 60/20 AMPS and then the system draws down the battery during
the short time the gear pump is active or does the voltage regulator
deactivate the SD-60 requiring a reset?
QUESTION 3: How much output does the SD-60 and the SD-20 really put out
both at idle and at cruise RPM? I heard that the belt driven alternator
will put out full production at low RPM however the SD-20 will only put out
lower production at low RPM and only reach it's full rated production at max
RPM?
THANKS AGAIN ALL.
OH.BTW.I wish you all a prosperous New Year!!!
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: SD-20/SD-60 Question |
Answer 1: The alternators do not share the load equally. The load will draw current
from the source with the highest voltage. It depends on what voltage each
regulator is set at. If the 60 amp is set at a higher voltage, it will provide
all of the current. If the 20 amp is set at a higher voltage and the load
is higher than 20 amps, the 20 amp alternator will put out its maximum current
but will not be able to maintain the voltage because the load is too great.
Once the voltage sags below the set point of the 60 amp alternator, then the
60 amp alternator will turn on and help the 20 amp alternator. The 20 amp alternator
will still be putting out its maximum current which could cause it to
get hot if not provided with cooling. There could be some instability where
each alternator output varies up and down.
Answer 2: Here again, the load will draw current from the source with the highest
voltage. If the alternator voltage sags due to excessive current, when the
alternator voltage sags to battery voltage, then part of the current will come
from the battery and part from the alternator. A voltage regulator regulates
voltage, not current. If the voltage sags, the regulator will increase alternator
field current in an attempt to maintain the set point voltage. If the
load is too great, the alternator output voltage will sag while its output current
will be at maximum. Alternator output current is self limiting. It is
only capable of so much. I have never heard of a voltage regulator deactivating
and requiring a reset.
Answer 3: I do not know.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464679#464679
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: EMI From Seat Heaters and Other Questions |
> On Jan 3, 2017, at 6:20 PM, William Hunter <billhuntersemail@gmail.com> wr
ote:
> QUESTION 4: How much heat would a small 12 VDC electric element heater sy
stem realistically put out? This is the one we have been discussing it is de
signed for a RV unit: http://www.my12voltstore.com/12_Volt_Ducted_Heater_p
/sd12-4000.htm
>
At the risk of being pedantic, I'm not sure how one would answer this other t
han to quote the product's specifications and explain the units.
The description says this heater rated for 8,016 British Thermal Units (BTUs
). A BTU is the amount of energy it takes to heat one pound of water (about
16 fl oz, or two cups) by one degree Fahrenheit.
So, the heat energy this thing puts out could heat a 4-ton tank of water (ap
prox 960 US gal) by one deg F in one hour. Or, to use numbers that are a bi
t more meaningful, heat about 96 gal of water by 10 deg F in one hour. Stil
l not a very helpful comparison.
The specs say it draws 480W (40A at 12V). It looks like the blower motor ac
counts for 15W (1.25A) of that total, which leaves 465W (38.75A) for the hea
ting elements. That's a decent amount of heat, but compare that figure agai
nst a typical small domestic space heater that we're all familiar with: they
're commonly rated at 1,500W. The first three search results for "hair drye
r" on Amazon are rated at 1,875W!
Recommendations vary between 20 and 60 BTU/sq ft for heating a home, dependi
ng on your climate region. If you assume a middle value of 40 BTU/sq ft, th
en 8,000 BTU would be about right for a 200 sq ft room (in a home insulated t
o code).
Whether that kind of analysis translates to airplanes, or if 8,000 BTU is ad
equate for a light plane cockpit flying through freezing air are interesting
questions. How warm is warm enough?
Eric
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 and SD-8 |
To what voltage should the SD-8's PMR1C-14 regulator be set for Z-13/8?
I see for Z-12 the SD-60 and SD-20 (to use their old names) regulators are set
at 14.2 and 13 volts respectively.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464681#464681
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: SD-20/SD-60 Question |
1/2)
Diagram Z-12 calls for:
Two alternators and one battery.
SD-60 alternator with LR-3 regulator. B and C presets this regulator to 14.2
volts.
SD-20 alternator with SB-1 regulator, B and C presets this regulator to 13.0
volts.
The SD-60 will carry all the load because it is set higher; but Z-12 has SD-20
switched off until needed.
When SD-60 is inoperative Z-12 calls for:
A panel light that will flash above 20 amps calling for you to shed load.
This panel light and its associated current sensor are included with regulator
SBK-14 versus the standard SB1B-14.
I interpolate the SD-20 will make 20 amps at 1750 rpm.
I think the battery will absorb most of the short-term hydraulic pump current.
Also think about what engine RPM will be.
But are you using Z-14? Z-14 calls for two two alternators at 14.2 volts. Ref
its description in Appendix Z.
3)
SD-20, ref page 2 here:
http://www.bandc.aero/pdfs/quickfacts_bc410-h.pdf
Runs at 1.3 times crank RPM.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464682#464682
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