Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:29 AM - Diode or relay in a circuit? (William Hunter)
2. 01:01 AM - Re: Diode or relay in a circuit? (Stuart Hutchison)
3. 06:22 AM - Re: DPST switch in place of split rocker master (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 07:17 AM - Re: Diode or relay in a circuit? (user9253)
5. 08:06 AM - Re: Diode or relay in a circuit? (user9253)
6. 08:33 AM - Re: DPST switch in place of split rocker master (digidocs)
7. 09:12 AM - Red LED Beacon (J Rabon)
8. 09:30 AM - Re: Re: Diode or relay in a circuit? (William Hunter)
9. 10:28 AM - Re: Re: Diode or relay in a circuit? (Earl Gmail)
10. 10:41 AM - Re: Red LED Beacon (Bill Bradburry)
11. 12:00 PM - Re: Red LED Beacon (Eric M. Jones)
12. 04:34 PM - Re: Re: Red LED Beacon (William Hunter)
13. 04:58 PM - Re: Re: Red LED Beacon (William Hunter)
14. 05:32 PM - Re: Re: Diode or relay in a circuit? (William Hunter)
15. 08:42 PM - Re: Red LED Beacon (Rick Beebe)
16. 08:49 PM - Re: Diode or relay in a circuit? (user9253)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Diode or relay in a circuit? |
I was hoping I could solicit the advice from you all on this forum
regarding building a circuit for landing lights. Specifically my airplane
is a retractable gear airplane and it has a high intensity landing light in
the nose cone and I am also installing LED lights on each main landing gear
leg.
I am going to use the Rockrack switches that are the on/off/on variety. The
plan is to wire up this switch so that when the switch is:
UP: When the landing gear is retracted I want to turn off the LED lights
attached to the gear legs so that they're not illuminated when they are
inside the gear wells and just the landing light in the nose cone is
illuminated.
CENTER - All lights are extinguished.
DOWN- All three lights are illuminated (the landing light in the nose and
also the lights on each of the main landing gear legs are illuminated).
I imagine that I need to either wire in a relay or to use a diode for this
combined circuit. I was going to wire up an automobile relay however that
might be a bit too much weight for such a simplistic circuit such as this.
I imagine some kind of diode but that diode would have to handle as high as
10 amps.
Additionally the rock rack switches contain two green LEDs that are
user/externally wired so that when the switch is in the UP position the top
LED is supposed to illuminate, when the switch is in the center position
both LEDs are extinguished, and when the switch is in the DOWN position the
bottom LED will illuminate.
The Aveo people have been most unhelpful in providing me with a schematic
for the three-way switch. If somebody could help out with this I would be
most grateful!
THANKS!!!
Bill Hunter
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Diode or relay in a circuit? |
Sounds like unnecessary extra in-flight work for you Bill I would arm the entire
circuit with a single switch that turns on the nose landing light straight
away, but is wired in parallel with a microswitch and relay to allow current to
flow to the gear leg lights only when the gear is physically in transit going
down.
Cheers, Stu
> On 18 Jan 2017, at 19:27, William Hunter <billhuntersemail@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I was hoping I could solicit the advice from you all on this forum regarding
building a circuit for landing lights. Specifically my airplane is a retractable
gear airplane and it has a high intensity landing light in the nose cone and
I am also installing LED lights on each main landing gear leg.
>
> I am going to use the Rockrack switches that are the on/off/on variety. The plan
is to wire up this switch so that when the switch is:
>
> UP: When the landing gear is retracted I want to turn off the LED lights attached
to the gear legs so that they're not illuminated when they are inside the
gear wells and just the landing light in the nose cone is illuminated.
>
> CENTER - All lights are extinguished.
>
> DOWN- All three lights are illuminated (the landing light in the nose and also
the lights on each of the main landing gear legs are illuminated).
>
> I imagine that I need to either wire in a relay or to use a diode for this combined
circuit. I was going to wire up an automobile relay however that might
be a bit too much weight for such a simplistic circuit such as this. I imagine
some kind of diode but that diode would have to handle as high as 10 amps.
>
> Additionally the rock rack switches contain two green LEDs that are user/externally
wired so that when the switch is in the UP position the top LED is supposed
to illuminate, when the switch is in the center position both LEDs are extinguished,
and when the switch is in the DOWN position the bottom LED will illuminate.
>
> The Aveo people have been most unhelpful in providing me with a schematic for
the three-way switch. If somebody could help out with this I would be most grateful!
>
> THANKS!!!
>
> Bill Hunter
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: DPST switch in place of split rocker master |
At 06:22 PM 1/17/2017, you wrote:
>
>Hi list,
>
>I'm curious if there would be any negative consequences to using a
>standard SPDT toggle switch in lieu of the red split rocker or a
>progressive transfer toggleswitch. I already have a pullable
>breaker that can be used to shut down the (externally regulated)
>alternator in the rare case when that's desirable and I like the
>simplicity of just "on" and "off".
That's exactly what is suggested in Figure Z-13/8
Emacs!
>The only potential snag that has occurred to me thus far is that
>there could be a "load dump" event on switch off. This could happen
>because even though the field is disconnected at the same time as
>the battery, there is still stored energy in the alternator
>inductance that may take a few 100s of ms to dissipate. This energy
>would have to go to the bus as the battery would no longer be
>present to absorb it.
Load dumps come in two forms. (1) The 'automotive' load
dump even occurs when a lightly loaded system is
robustly recharging a depleted battery and some
electrical gremlin of undefined origins disconnects
the battery. The response time for a hard-working
alternator is not zero . . . in the milliseconds
following a battery disconnect, the bus voltage
will 'surge' to some higher valve for the interval
required to bring the alternatorunder control.
(2) The 'aviation' load dump is generated when
some large drain on the system is suddenly released
in an otherwise perfectly normal system. My first
explorations of such events involved system behaviors
when large motors (air conditioning compressor, landing
gear and electro-hydraulic pumps) were shut off.
These loads placed demands of 100A or more on
the system. Of course, the flip side of that coin
studied system voltage depressions generated by
the startup inrush currents for those same devices.
Bus voltage perturbations generated in (2) have
been studied in great detail and bounded by
design goals defined in publications like
Mil-Std-704 for power generation and DO-160
for appliance tolerance to such events.
But in neither venue will you generate untenable
bus voltage excursions with the simultaneous
operations of alternator field supply and
battery contactor.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Diode or relay in a circuit? |
Attached is a schematic to control two circuits.
The switch terminals can be figured out using a continuity meter or test light,
the kind with flashlight batteries.
If using a meter with a diode check function, the meter will show about 0.7 volts
when the switch indicator LED is conducting.
How many terminals do your switches have?
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465185#465185
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/light_sw_dpdt_242.jpg
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Diode or relay in a circuit? |
Here is another circuit using Stu's idea which is a good one that will reduce pilot
workload. Landing is a busy time. The pilot does not have to be concerned
about what position the light switch is in. The switch only has two positions,
up or down, on or off. There is no center position. Either a DPDT ON-NONE-ON
or a DPST ON-OFF switch can be used.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465189#465189
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/switch_lndg_gear_464.jpg
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: DPST switch in place of split rocker master |
Bob,
Thank you for your response. It's exactly the confirmation I was looking for.
Have a nice day,
David
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465191#465191
Message 7
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Bill,
The very best I have found is the Aveo Posi Strobe Mini Max. Some of
the pain of high first cost could be relieved by the lifetime
guarantee - if it fails for any reason you get a replacement.
These guys have it for $347 including shipping:
http://www.21stcentury-usa.com/aveo/aveoflash/minimax/
It looks like a quality unit, just the thing you need when ahead of the prop.
Jack
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Diode or relay in a circuit? |
Joe and Stu,
I knew I could count on you!!!
I REALLY like Stu's idea about the auto turn off function...how does one
(me) know if it really turned off when the wheel is retracted in the well?
At least with my refrigerator light I positively confirmed that the light
turns off when the door is closed by placing my iPhone in the fridge and
closing the door. Then when I removed the phone and closed the door I could
no longer confirm that the light was off so stuck my phone back in the
fridge and I Face-timed the phone from inside the fridge and I was
comforted...then...I was also worried about the freezer light...I got so
worried about it not turning off that I placed my wife's iPhone in the
freezer just to make sure that the freezer light would also turn off when
the door is closed...then...I got so worked up and was worrying about these
lights that I forgot her iPhone was in the freezer and now my wife does not
have an iPhone anymore...nor do I know if the freezer light still shuts off
when the door is closed...DANG...all off this stress about the fridge lights
that I hard wired a light switch to the outside of the fridge just to make
sure...now I forget to turn off the switch after getting a beer(s) and the
lights stay on.
Sooo...what could possibly go wrong in an airplane?!?!?!
I guess I can duct tape my phone to the gear leg...Hmmmm...how will I know
that the other gear leg light is indeed turned off?!?!? I guess I will need
to purchase another iPhone for the wife...
THANKS AGAIN Ya'All!!!
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of user9253
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 8:04 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Diode or relay in a circuit?
Here is another circuit using Stu's idea which is a good one that will
reduce pilot workload. Landing is a busy time. The pilot does not have to
be concerned about what position the light switch is in. The switch only
has two positions, up or down, on or off. There is no center position.
Either a DPDT ON-NONE-ON or a DPST ON-OFF switch can be used.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465189#465189
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/switch_lndg_gear_464.jpg
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Diode or relay in a circuit? |
Thanks Bill! We all need some comic relief!!
Do not archive
> On Jan 18, 2017, at 11:27, William Hunter <billhuntersemail@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Joe and Stu,
>
> I knew I could count on you!!!
>
> I REALLY like Stu's idea about the auto turn off function...how does one
> (me) know if it really turned off when the wheel is retracted in the well?
>
> At least with my refrigerator light I positively confirmed that the light
> turns off when the door is closed by placing my iPhone in the fridge and
> closing the door. Then when I removed the phone and closed the door I could
> no longer confirm that the light was off so stuck my phone back in the
> fridge and I Face-timed the phone from inside the fridge and I was
> comforted...then...I was also worried about the freezer light...I got so
> worried about it not turning off that I placed my wife's iPhone in the
> freezer just to make sure that the freezer light would also turn off when
> the door is closed...then...I got so worked up and was worrying about these
> lights that I forgot her iPhone was in the freezer and now my wife does not
> have an iPhone anymore...nor do I know if the freezer light still shuts off
> when the door is closed...DANG...all off this stress about the fridge lights
> that I hard wired a light switch to the outside of the fridge just to make
> sure...now I forget to turn off the switch after getting a beer(s) and the
> lights stay on.
>
> Sooo...what could possibly go wrong in an airplane?!?!?!
>
> I guess I can duct tape my phone to the gear leg...Hmmmm...how will I know
> that the other gear leg light is indeed turned off?!?!? I guess I will need
> to purchase another iPhone for the wife...
>
> THANKS AGAIN Ya'All!!!
>
> ..
>
> Cheers!!!
>
> Bill Hunter
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of user9253
> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 8:04 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Diode or relay in a circuit?
>
>
> Here is another circuit using Stu's idea which is a good one that will
> reduce pilot workload. Landing is a busy time. The pilot does not have to
> be concerned about what position the light switch is in. The switch only
> has two positions, up or down, on or off. There is no center position.
> Either a DPDT ON-NONE-ON or a DPST ON-OFF switch can be used.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465189#465189
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/switch_lndg_gear_464.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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This company only has red and white, no green! I suppose this would work if
you can figure out how to stay to the right of the world so they can see
your red light, but if anyone gets to your right side, you will be in
violation since you have no green light! :>(
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of J Rabon
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 11:09 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Red LED Beacon
Bill,
The very best I have found is the Aveo Posi Strobe Mini Max. Some of
the pain of high first cost could be relieved by the lifetime
guarantee - if it fails for any reason you get a replacement.
These guys have it for $347 including shipping:
http://www.21stcentury-usa.com/aveo/aveoflash/minimax/
It looks like a quality unit, just the thing you need when ahead of the
prop.
Jack
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Red LED Beacon |
I posted an article some years ago on LED beacons. (attached) At the time they
LEDs were marginal but now are easy. (Whelen's engineers probably used this information
in their beehive beacon...or if they didn't they should have). The problem
is the envelope. You can buy lamp envelopes, but it is cheaper to buy a
lamp, chop it and epoxy a connection to it. Old film projector lamps are good
sources of globes.
The globes I have seen are not actually very streamlined.
BTW: You can use red lamps instead of white in aircraft because neon had an important
part in aviation in the 1920s.
BTW: NOT using a little jar or beehive is my plan. I would appreciate anyone's
advice on adding several groups of flush LEDs in a way that met the requirements.
Same goes for red and green position lights. Any ideas?
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465206#465206
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/aircraft_beacons_using_leds_170.pdf
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Red LED Beacon |
THANKS for all of the advice.
Yes...the Aevo unit is the one I really want however $339.00 is about
$300.00 more than I wanted to spend.
Whilst blinded by the red tractor trailer corner lights on my drive last
night I got to thinking...dang...those are pretty bright. Sadly after
looking at them online it seems that they are nor 360 degree shine pattern
so no go. The price was right.
A guy could stick about 100 of them on all corners of his airplane like the
truckers do...Hmmm...
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric M.
Jones
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 11:58 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Red LED Beacon
--> <emjones@charter.net>
I posted an article some years ago on LED beacons. (attached) At the time
they LEDs were marginal but now are easy. (Whelen's engineers probably used
this information in their beehive beacon...or if they didn't they should
have). The problem is the envelope. You can buy lamp envelopes, but it is
cheaper to buy a lamp, chop it and epoxy a connection to it. Old film
projector lamps are good sources of globes.
The globes I have seen are not actually very streamlined.
BTW: You can use red lamps instead of white in aircraft because neon had an
important part in aviation in the 1920s.
BTW: NOT using a little jar or beehive is my plan. I would appreciate
anyone's advice on adding several groups of flush LEDs in a way that met the
requirements. Same goes for red and green position lights. Any ideas?
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465206#465206
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/aircraft_beacons_using_leds_170.pdf
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Red LED Beacon |
Hey Eric (Jones),
Looks like someone stole your idea!!! Check this out:
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/strobe-beacons/led-hideaway-strobe-
lights-mini-emergency-vehicle-led-warning-lights/1905/#/tab/Overview
At first I thought by looking at the picture that this was a large gumball
like glass dome however this booger is only 1.5 inches tall including the
base. 360 degree pattern.
I also initially did not like the look of the aluminum base...kinda ugly
however they offer a "flange mount" that makes it more aerodynamic. Heck
for 45 BUCKS it just might be what I was looking for!!!
Check out this product review (anyone we know):
BRIGHTEST LED ON THE MARKET! I installed these tiny but Extremely bright
LEDs on my experimental aircraft (Helicopter), and it is very bright even in
direct sunlight! VFR (Visual Flight Rules) See and BE seen when flying in
shared airspace with other aircraft. Not all aircraft have Transponders that
let other aircraft know where you are, so the F.A.A. requires you to be able
to be seen. Sadly, LIGHTING marketed for "Aircraft" is VERY EXPENSIVE! These
tiny but VERY bright lights are AWESOME, and a fraction of the price of
other aviation lighting. I have shared these LEDs with other pilots, and
everyone is impressed! Old fashioned strobes draw lots of energy, and LEDs
do NOT.
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric M.
Jones
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 11:58 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Red LED Beacon
--> <emjones@charter.net>
I posted an article some years ago on LED beacons. (attached) At the time
they LEDs were marginal but now are easy. (Whelen's engineers probably used
this information in their beehive beacon...or if they didn't they should
have). The problem is the envelope. You can buy lamp envelopes, but it is
cheaper to buy a lamp, chop it and epoxy a connection to it. Old film
projector lamps are good sources of globes.
The globes I have seen are not actually very streamlined.
BTW: You can use red lamps instead of white in aircraft because neon had an
important part in aviation in the 1920s.
BTW: NOT using a little jar or beehive is my plan. I would appreciate
anyone's advice on adding several groups of flush LEDs in a way that met the
requirements. Same goes for red and green position lights. Any ideas?
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465206#465206
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/aircraft_beacons_using_leds_170.pdf
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Diode or relay in a circuit? |
Joe,
Thanks for the schematic!!!
Can I (PLEASE) pick your brain a bit more?!??!
I do not know what the existing nose cone landing light bulb is...it is a
"HID" (blueish color) bulb and it has " 55W 24V HID" printed on the inside
plastic base. I have attached a picture (hopefully it goes through). My
aircraft is a 12 VDC system so the "24V was surprising"?
Does anyone recognize this bulb? I am trying to reconstruct records for all
of the equipment that came on this airplane (the previous owner was not the
builder...he had a "builders assistant" build the airplane for him and he
lost most of the records/receipts)
The goal is to run the existing nose cone light bulb plus two of the
following LED light bars (one on each landing gear leg):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/152175264897?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName
=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
The questions I have are:
-What size circuit breaker should I run considering the HID nose light and
the two LED light bars will be pulling off of the same circuit (the LED
light bars do not have any technical documents)?
-If I run the circuit like you provided me, what size diode should I use?
-Should the diode be placed in the circuit of the HID nose light or should
it be placed in the dual LED light bar circuit?
THANKS ...I REALLY APPRECIATE your help!!!
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of user9253
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 7:14 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Diode or relay in a circuit?
Attached is a schematic to control two circuits.
The switch terminals can be figured out using a continuity meter or test
light, the kind with flashlight batteries.
If using a meter with a diode check function, the meter will show about 0.7
volts when the switch indicator LED is conducting.
How many terminals do your switches have?
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465185#465185
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/light_sw_dpdt_242.jpg
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Red LED Beacon |
Aveo makes wingtip nav/position/strobe lights that come in red and
green. I put their Aurora lights on my plane this summer. They had a
good deal at AirVenture. I like them a lot.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/el/ledlighting_zaveoflash.html
--Rick
On 1/18/2017 1:38 PM, Bill Bradburry wrote:
>
> This company only has red and white, no green! I suppose this would work if
> you can figure out how to stay to the right of the world so they can see
> your red light, but if anyone gets to your right side, you will be in
> violation since you have no green light! :>(
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of J Rabon
> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 11:09 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Red LED Beacon
>
>
> Bill,
>
> The very best I have found is the Aveo Posi Strobe Mini Max. Some of
> the pain of high first cost could be relieved by the lifetime
> guarantee - if it fails for any reason you get a replacement.
>
> These guys have it for $347 including shipping:
> http://www.21stcentury-usa.com/aveo/aveoflash/minimax/
>
> It looks like a quality unit, just the thing you need when ahead of the
> prop.
>
> Jack
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Diode or relay in a circuit? |
There is no diode in my schematics other than the LED. The two little arrows next
to the diode symbol indicate that it is a Light Emitting Diode aka LED. No
additional diode is needed other than the LEDs that you already have.
Adding up the wattages of all 3 lights, 55 + 72 + 72 = 199W
199 watts / 14 volts = 14 amps I would use a 20 amp breaker and 12AWG wire. If
the breaker trips, all light will be lost. You might consider two separate
circuits.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465231#465231
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