Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:39 AM - Re: Re: Starter Contactors (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 04:51 AM - Re: Dead battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:30 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/22/17 (Bill Schertz)
4. 03:08 PM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/22/17 (Deems Herring)
5. 03:31 PM - iCom Antenna Switchbox effect on Com Radio (Ken Ryan)
6. 06:38 PM - Re: iCom Antenna Switchbox effect on Com Radio (Charlie England)
7. 09:57 PM - Re: Visio symbols (reaper)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Starter Contactors |
At 07:42 AM 1/21/2017, you wrote:
>
>Many marine and aftermarket key switches have a substantial rating
>such as 25 Amps on the package which has mislead me in the past.
>That rating is often the total contact rating. ie 5 for starter, 10
>for ignition, and 10 for accessories.
>Nevertheless in my case the starting contacts are still working fine
>after several thousand starts wired directly to the solenoid and
>with the recommended diode. My subaru starter solenoid has two
>windings so that the pull in current is quite high (more than 30
>amps) but then after pull in, only the second winding flows current
>(about 9 amps) .
>Ken
The only time I personally observed severe
effects of compound wound solenoids on
key-switch contacts was in the parking lot
of Vidimation, Inc. where I was manager. One
of my techs had a Pacific Rim vehicle
that wouldn't crank. We dug into the
steering column and upon exposing the
keyswitch, the electrical assembly
behind the cylinder came out in pieces
with evidence of overheat damage . . .
centered on contacts that energized
the starter.
It wasn't until years later, working with
starter upgrades to OBAM aircraft at B&C
that I was introduced to the unique energization
characteristics of the compound-wound engagement
solenoids.
It was then that I hypothesized a connection
between solenoid configurations and switch
damage observed on the car.
In that same time frame, the effects inductive
energy storage on slow-make/slow-break
switch contacts bubbled up in the TC aircraft
world. The FAA published their infamous AD
against the classic aviation key switches
marketed by first by Gerdes and later by Aircraft
Spruce.
Seems there was a rise in frequency of
failure in the starter control contacts
diagnosed as a combination of poor lubrication
and inductive energy dissipation.
See http://tinyurl.com/go9a4g8
The initial fix was to install
a diode across the contacts of the switch.
The AD was published no doubt causing
numerous installations of diodes in the
wrong place. It's interesting that the
service difficulties first presented for
controlling ordinary contactors . . . attempting
to control a compound-wound, engagement
solenoid through these same contacts would
have been problematic at best.
I was working the STC kit for installation
of B&C starters at the time. Our kit
included a new, separate, high-current,
snap-action push-button which was better
suited to the task of controlling
the intermittent duty contactors. Further,
we elected to ADD the external, intermittent
duty contactor to the starter control circuit.
That was when I first incorporated low voltage
MOV devices as enhancements to switch life.
I made the decision based on interpretation
of catalog data without bench verification.
Some years later, the question was raised on
one of the list servers. I went to the
bench and was disappointed to discover that
the decision was poorly founded and I began
to eliminate the MOV from the z-figures.
Unfortunately, that transition of ideas did
not filter down to the community that had
already fabricated to the earlier drawings.
Found this MOV installation during the investigation
into root cause of an aircraft accident (The MOV
was not involved).
Emacs!
Fortunately this mis-application contributes to nothing
worse than poor service life on the controlling switch
and in this case (whisky-barrel contactor) to an
insignificant degree. The MOV is not being used to
stand off the 'lightning bolts' from a lightweight
starter solenoid.
Cessna first put diodes on battery contactors and
altenrator control relays while I worked there (1864-69).
Looking through wiring diagrams I have for that era shows
no diodes on starter contactors. Seems it took about 20
years for difficulties for that ommission to bubble to
the surface.
Bottom line tells us that simple diode suppression
of energy stored on contactor or solenoid inductance
is a GOOD thing. Buffering compound-wound starter
solenoid controls with a relay is probably another
GOOD thing.
Emacs!
Bob . . .
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Dead battery |
At 10:59 AM 1/22/2017, you wrote:
><jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
>
>Hi Guys
>
>Can you help, my son left his ignition on (his CBR 600 Honda
>motorbike) the six month old AGM battery is now dead, the
>'conditioner' charger indicates fully charged and maintaining - is
>the battery recoverable or now junk
>
>Regards - John
A lead-acid battery self-destructs in a deeply
discharged state. You can try recharging it.
Depending on how long it sat discharged,
it may never recover.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/22/17 |
Try putting an old fashioned battery charger on it. A conditioner charger
seeing high resistance will interpret it as 'fully' charged.
Bill
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 09:02:58 AM PST US
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dead battery
From: "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
Hi Guys
Can you help, my son left his ignition on (his CBR 600 Honda motorbike) the
six
month old AGM battery is now dead, the 'conditioner' charger indicates fully
charged and maintaining - is the battery recoverable or now junk
Regards - John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465333#465333
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/22/17 |
Here is Optima's recommended procedure:
This is a recovery method for the do-it-yourselfer using the equipment you'
ve got in the garage. With this option, you're going to trick your traditio
nal charger into charging the deeply discharged AGM battery.
Here's what you need:
* Battery charger (under 15 amps)
* Jumper cables
* A good battery, preferably above 12.2 volts. (It can be an AGM or flo
oded battery- it doesn't matter.)
* The seemingly dead, deeply discharged AGM battery
* A voltage meter
* A watch or timer
Now, here's what you do:
Hook up the good battery and deeply discharged AGM battery in parallel - po
sitive to positive and negative to negative. Do not have the charger connec
ted to the battery or turned on at this stage.
Now, hook up the good battery to the charger. Turn on the charger. The char
ger will "see" the voltage of the good battery (hooked up in parallel), and
start providing a charge.
After the batteries have been hooked up for about an hour, check to see if
the AGM battery is slightly warm or hot to the touch. Batteries naturally b
ecome warm during charging, but excessive heat may be an indication that th
ere really is something wrong with the battery. Discontinue charging immedi
ately if the battery is hot to the touch. Also discontinue the process if y
ou hear the battery "gassing" - a hissing sound coming from the safety valv
es. If it's hot or gassing, STOP CHARGING IMMEDIATELY!
With your voltage meter, check back often to see if the AGM battery has cha
rged to 10.5 volts or above. This generally takes less than two hours with
a 10-amp charger. If it has, disconnect the charger from the wall outlet an
d remove the good battery from the charger. Now, connect only the deeply di
scharged AGM battery to the charger. Turn on the charger and continue until
the AGM battery reaches a full charge, or until the automatic charger comp
letes the charge process. In most cases, the AGM battery will be recovered.
If you have an Interstate Battery store in your area they normally have the
equipment and knowledge to recover an AGM if it can be.
Deems
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com <owner-aeroelectric-list
-server@matronics.com> on behalf of Bill Schertz <wschertz343@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2017 9:24 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/22/17
com>
Try putting an old fashioned battery charger on it. A conditioner charger
seeing high resistance will interpret it as 'fully' charged.
Bill
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 09:02:58 AM PST US
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dead battery
From: "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
Hi Guys
Can you help, my son left his ignition on (his CBR 600 Honda motorbike) the
six
month old AGM battery is now dead, the 'conditioner' charger indicates full
y
charged and maintaining - is the battery recoverable or now junk
Regards - John
Message 5
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Subject: | iCom Antenna Switchbox effect on Com Radio |
iCom makes a little box for allowing com antenna to be used by their
handheld radio, in the event the primary com fails. This requires splitting
the coax from the com transceiver to the antenna into two lengths.
My question is, will using this box have a negative effect on either
reception or transmission of the com radio? (as compared with identical
system with just an unbroken coax from transceiver to antenna).
Here is a link to the iCom box on Aircraft Spruce:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/icomswitchbox.php?clickkey=3576
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: iCom Antenna Switchbox effect on Com Radio |
On 1/23/2017 5:27 PM, Ken Ryan wrote:
> iCom makes a little box for allowing com antenna to be used by their
> handheld radio, in the event the primary com fails. This requires
> splitting the coax from the com transceiver to the antenna into two
> lengths.
>
> My question is, will using this box have a negative effect on either
> reception or transmission of the com radio? (as compared with
> identical system with just an unbroken coax from transceiver to antenna).
>
> Here is a link to the iCom box on Aircraft Spruce:
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/icomswitchbox.php?clickkey=3576
Hooo....weee! Proud of a little box with two BNC's & a toggle switch,
aren't they?
The answer to your question is, 'Yes.'
Now ask if you can tell how much without a many kilobuck test rig and an
antenna test range.
Then you can ask about the guts inside the box....
Charlie
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Visio symbols |
Newer Visio can import DWG files so I would grab Z-11 off http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ and import it for symbols.
Should give a good start anyway.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465386#465386
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