AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Mon 01/23/17


Total Messages Posted: 7



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:39 AM - Re: Re: Starter Contactors (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     2. 04:51 AM - Re: Dead battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     3. 06:30 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/22/17 (Bill Schertz)
     4. 03:08 PM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/22/17 (Deems Herring)
     5. 03:31 PM - iCom Antenna Switchbox effect on Com Radio (Ken Ryan)
     6. 06:38 PM - Re: iCom Antenna Switchbox effect on Com Radio (Charlie England)
     7. 09:57 PM - Re: Visio symbols (reaper)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:39:01 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Starter Contactors
    At 07:42 AM 1/21/2017, you wrote: > >Many marine and aftermarket key switches have a substantial rating >such as 25 Amps on the package which has mislead me in the past. >That rating is often the total contact rating. ie 5 for starter, 10 >for ignition, and 10 for accessories. >Nevertheless in my case the starting contacts are still working fine >after several thousand starts wired directly to the solenoid and >with the recommended diode. My subaru starter solenoid has two >windings so that the pull in current is quite high (more than 30 >amps) but then after pull in, only the second winding flows current >(about 9 amps) . >Ken The only time I personally observed severe effects of compound wound solenoids on key-switch contacts was in the parking lot of Vidimation, Inc. where I was manager. One of my techs had a Pacific Rim vehicle that wouldn't crank. We dug into the steering column and upon exposing the keyswitch, the electrical assembly behind the cylinder came out in pieces with evidence of overheat damage . . . centered on contacts that energized the starter. It wasn't until years later, working with starter upgrades to OBAM aircraft at B&C that I was introduced to the unique energization characteristics of the compound-wound engagement solenoids. It was then that I hypothesized a connection between solenoid configurations and switch damage observed on the car. In that same time frame, the effects inductive energy storage on slow-make/slow-break switch contacts bubbled up in the TC aircraft world. The FAA published their infamous AD against the classic aviation key switches marketed by first by Gerdes and later by Aircraft Spruce. Seems there was a rise in frequency of failure in the starter control contacts diagnosed as a combination of poor lubrication and inductive energy dissipation. See http://tinyurl.com/go9a4g8 The initial fix was to install a diode across the contacts of the switch. The AD was published no doubt causing numerous installations of diodes in the wrong place. It's interesting that the service difficulties first presented for controlling ordinary contactors . . . attempting to control a compound-wound, engagement solenoid through these same contacts would have been problematic at best. I was working the STC kit for installation of B&C starters at the time. Our kit included a new, separate, high-current, snap-action push-button which was better suited to the task of controlling the intermittent duty contactors. Further, we elected to ADD the external, intermittent duty contactor to the starter control circuit. That was when I first incorporated low voltage MOV devices as enhancements to switch life. I made the decision based on interpretation of catalog data without bench verification. Some years later, the question was raised on one of the list servers. I went to the bench and was disappointed to discover that the decision was poorly founded and I began to eliminate the MOV from the z-figures. Unfortunately, that transition of ideas did not filter down to the community that had already fabricated to the earlier drawings. Found this MOV installation during the investigation into root cause of an aircraft accident (The MOV was not involved). Emacs! Fortunately this mis-application contributes to nothing worse than poor service life on the controlling switch and in this case (whisky-barrel contactor) to an insignificant degree. The MOV is not being used to stand off the 'lightning bolts' from a lightweight starter solenoid. Cessna first put diodes on battery contactors and altenrator control relays while I worked there (1864-69). Looking through wiring diagrams I have for that era shows no diodes on starter contactors. Seems it took about 20 years for difficulties for that ommission to bubble to the surface. Bottom line tells us that simple diode suppression of energy stored on contactor or solenoid inductance is a GOOD thing. Buffering compound-wound starter solenoid controls with a relay is probably another GOOD thing. Emacs! Bob . . .


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:51:53 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Dead battery
    At 10:59 AM 1/22/2017, you wrote: ><jmtipton@btopenworld.com> > >Hi Guys > >Can you help, my son left his ignition on (his CBR 600 Honda >motorbike) the six month old AGM battery is now dead, the >'conditioner' charger indicates fully charged and maintaining - is >the battery recoverable or now junk > >Regards - John A lead-acid battery self-destructs in a deeply discharged state. You can try recharging it. Depending on how long it sat discharged, it may never recover. Bob . . .


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:30:19 AM PST US
    From: "Bill Schertz" <wschertz343@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/22/17
    Try putting an old fashioned battery charger on it. A conditioner charger seeing high resistance will interpret it as 'fully' charged. Bill ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:58 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dead battery From: "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton@btopenworld.com> Hi Guys Can you help, my son left his ignition on (his CBR 600 Honda motorbike) the six month old AGM battery is now dead, the 'conditioner' charger indicates fully charged and maintaining - is the battery recoverable or now junk Regards - John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465333#465333


    Message 4


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    Time: 03:08:57 PM PST US
    From: Deems Herring <dsleepy47@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/22/17
    Here is Optima's recommended procedure: This is a recovery method for the do-it-yourselfer using the equipment you' ve got in the garage. With this option, you're going to trick your traditio nal charger into charging the deeply discharged AGM battery. Here's what you need: * Battery charger (under 15 amps) * Jumper cables * A good battery, preferably above 12.2 volts. (It can be an AGM or flo oded battery- it doesn't matter.) * The seemingly dead, deeply discharged AGM battery * A voltage meter * A watch or timer Now, here's what you do: Hook up the good battery and deeply discharged AGM battery in parallel - po sitive to positive and negative to negative. Do not have the charger connec ted to the battery or turned on at this stage. Now, hook up the good battery to the charger. Turn on the charger. The char ger will "see" the voltage of the good battery (hooked up in parallel), and start providing a charge. After the batteries have been hooked up for about an hour, check to see if the AGM battery is slightly warm or hot to the touch. Batteries naturally b ecome warm during charging, but excessive heat may be an indication that th ere really is something wrong with the battery. Discontinue charging immedi ately if the battery is hot to the touch. Also discontinue the process if y ou hear the battery "gassing" - a hissing sound coming from the safety valv es. If it's hot or gassing, STOP CHARGING IMMEDIATELY! With your voltage meter, check back often to see if the AGM battery has cha rged to 10.5 volts or above. This generally takes less than two hours with a 10-amp charger. If it has, disconnect the charger from the wall outlet an d remove the good battery from the charger. Now, connect only the deeply di scharged AGM battery to the charger. Turn on the charger and continue until the AGM battery reaches a full charge, or until the automatic charger comp letes the charge process. In most cases, the AGM battery will be recovered. If you have an Interstate Battery store in your area they normally have the equipment and knowledge to recover an AGM if it can be. Deems ________________________________ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com <owner-aeroelectric-list -server@matronics.com> on behalf of Bill Schertz <wschertz343@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2017 9:24 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/22/17 com> Try putting an old fashioned battery charger on it. A conditioner charger seeing high resistance will interpret it as 'fully' charged. Bill ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:58 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dead battery From: "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton@btopenworld.com> Hi Guys Can you help, my son left his ignition on (his CBR 600 Honda motorbike) the six month old AGM battery is now dead, the 'conditioner' charger indicates full y charged and maintaining - is the battery recoverable or now junk Regards - John


    Message 5


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    Time: 03:31:25 PM PST US
    From: Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.com>
    Subject: iCom Antenna Switchbox effect on Com Radio
    iCom makes a little box for allowing com antenna to be used by their handheld radio, in the event the primary com fails. This requires splitting the coax from the com transceiver to the antenna into two lengths. My question is, will using this box have a negative effect on either reception or transmission of the com radio? (as compared with identical system with just an unbroken coax from transceiver to antenna). Here is a link to the iCom box on Aircraft Spruce: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/icomswitchbox.php?clickkey=3576


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:38:04 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: iCom Antenna Switchbox effect on Com Radio
    From: Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
    On 1/23/2017 5:27 PM, Ken Ryan wrote: > iCom makes a little box for allowing com antenna to be used by their > handheld radio, in the event the primary com fails. This requires > splitting the coax from the com transceiver to the antenna into two > lengths. > > My question is, will using this box have a negative effect on either > reception or transmission of the com radio? (as compared with > identical system with just an unbroken coax from transceiver to antenna). > > Here is a link to the iCom box on Aircraft Spruce: > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/icomswitchbox.php?clickkey=3576 Hooo....weee! Proud of a little box with two BNC's & a toggle switch, aren't they? The answer to your question is, 'Yes.' Now ask if you can tell how much without a many kilobuck test rig and an antenna test range. Then you can ask about the guts inside the box.... Charlie


    Message 7


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    Time: 09:57:48 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Visio symbols
    From: "reaper" <grimmer.de@gmail.com>
    Newer Visio can import DWG files so I would grab Z-11 off http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ and import it for symbols. Should give a good start anyway. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465386#465386




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