Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:40 AM - SWR meters (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 08:30 AM - Re: SWR meters (Earl Schroeder)
3. 02:57 PM - Re: Double Check Antenna Placement (Art Zemon)
4. 03:41 PM - Re: Double Check Antenna Placement (Charlie England)
5. 04:32 PM - Re: Double Check Antenna Placement ()
6. 06:54 PM - Re: Double Check Antenna Placement (Kelly McMullen)
7. 06:57 PM - Re: Double Check Antenna Placement (Art Zemon)
8. 07:06 PM - Re: Double Check Antenna Placement (Kelly McMullen)
Message 1
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At 03:32 PM 1/26/2017, you wrote:
>Some time ago when the MFJ-259 was mentioned in a post, I was
>wishing you had made a 'comic book' about it's proper use associated
>with aircraft testing. You were otherwise occupied at the time but
>thought it was a good idea to put on your to-do list. I would still
>appreciate your guidance since the included manual mentions several
>things NOT to do. Knowing how to do nondestructive testing would
>help. Thanks.
Until I get something with the AEC flavor posted,
check out youtube. There's a bunch of videos on
the use of MFJ259 in particular and SWR meters
in general.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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Thanks Bob.
Do not archive
On Jan 28, 2017 9:45 AM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 03:32 PM 1/26/2017, you wrote:
>
> Some time ago when the MFJ-259 was mentioned in a post, I was wishing you
> had made a 'comic book' about it's proper use associated with aircraft
> testing. You were otherwise occupied at the time but thought it was a good
> idea to put on your to-do list. I would still appreciate your guidance
> since the included manual mentions several things NOT to do. Knowing how
> to do nondestructive testing would help. Thanks.
>
>
> Until I get something with the AEC flavor posted,
> check out youtube. There's a bunch of videos on
> the use of MFJ259 in particular and SWR meters
> in general.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Double Check Antenna Placement |
Kelly,
Yes, it does sound pretty similar to what I plan: an MGL iEFIS, one of the
IFR certified Garmin nav/comm/gps boxes, an MGL comm, and a mode S
transponder with ADS-B in+out. I *thought* that I understood the whole
transponder + ADS-B stuff but now I have my doubts, after reading your
note.
Can you tell me which specific transponder and ADS-B components you
installed?
Thanks,
-- Art Z.
On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 8:53 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
> kellym@aviating.com>
>
> I have similar equipment...GTN-650, SL30, Dynon Skyview with Dynon 1090ES
> for transponder and Dynon UAT receiver for in.
> I have a Bob Archer VOR antenna in each wingtip...each feeding one
> navcom/GS.
> Two com antennas on belly under rear seats. ADSB-out antenna right behind
> firewall. ADSB-In antenna behind baggage compartment on belly
> GTN-650 GPS antenna on cabin roof. Dynon GPS antenna in front of firewall
> under fiberglass cowling. No marker, no ADF, no Loran (I have both units,
> uninstalled from earlier aircraft). So 8 antennas, 3 under glass, 5
> external. All are performing well so far.
> All on RV-10 4 place mostly metal airframe.
> I cannot see installing a mode A/C transponder and UAT out unit in a new
> installation to meet ADSB requirements. It means you need two boxes that
> talk to each other, that both have to be tested and certified and
> maintained. Why get separate GPS for ADSB when you plan on a certified GPS
> that can provide the data to the ADSB box? The difference in cost is
> negligible if you eliminate the extra GPS.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Double Check Antenna Placement |
Art, I'm pretty sure that if you have 978mhz adsb out, you still need a
transponder of some sort. A 1090 ES transponder with a certified
position source meets the 'out' requirement (which means you don't need
978mhz out).
An AOPA article:
https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/ads-b/what-do-i-need
Charlie
On 1/28/2017 4:51 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
> Kelly,
>
> Yes, it does sound pretty similar to what I plan: an MGL iEFIS, one of
> the IFR certified Garmin nav/comm/gps boxes, an MGL comm, and a mode S
> transponder with ADS-B in+out. I /thought/ that I understood the whole
> transponder + ADS-B stuff but now I have my doubts, after reading your
> note.
>
> Can you tell me which specific transponder and ADS-B components you
> installed?
>
> Thanks,
> -- Art Z.
>
> On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 8:53 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com
> <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>> wrote:
>
> <kellym@aviating.com <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>>
>
> I have similar equipment...GTN-650, SL30, Dynon Skyview with Dynon
> 1090ES for transponder and Dynon UAT receiver for in.
> I have a Bob Archer VOR antenna in each wingtip...each feeding one
> navcom/GS.
> Two com antennas on belly under rear seats. ADSB-out antenna right
> behind firewall. ADSB-In antenna behind baggage compartment on belly
> GTN-650 GPS antenna on cabin roof. Dynon GPS antenna in front of
> firewall under fiberglass cowling. No marker, no ADF, no Loran (I
> have both units, uninstalled from earlier aircraft). So 8
> antennas, 3 under glass, 5 external. All are performing well so far.
> All on RV-10 4 place mostly metal airframe.
> I cannot see installing a mode A/C transponder and UAT out unit in
> a new installation to meet ADSB requirements. It means you need
> two boxes that talk to each other, that both have to be tested and
> certified and maintained. Why get separate GPS for ADSB when you
> plan on a certified GPS that can provide the data to the ADSB box?
> The difference in cost is negligible if you eliminate the extra GPS.
>
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> /"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself,
> what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel/
Message 5
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Subject: | Double Check Antenna Placement |
Art,
I'm not Kelly, but I believe he was commenting about the wisdom of using
an all-in-one ADS-B OUT 1090ES transponder solution, versus using a
Mode-C transponder plus a UAT ADS-B OUT transmitter (Freeflight,
NavWorx, etc.) to meet the 2020 mandate.
If you're doing a complete new install, it would be simpler to install a
single-box solution (Garmin GX-335 or-445, Stratus ESG, L3 Lynx, etc.)
connected to your IFR GPS (WAAS). With fewer connections and fewer
"inter-dependencies", the 1090ES solution would appear to be more
reliable as well.
But if you already have an IFR GPS (WAAS) and a good Mode-C transponder,
you COULD just add something like a FreeFlight (or NavWorx, assuming
they get their FAA mess cleaned up) dual-box UAT solution, which reads
the Mode-C transponder broadcast, and supplements it with the ADS-B OUT
data. Those UAT solutions that rely on your existing GPS and
Transponder may cost less money to install, but will be more complex to
integrate and configure, and ongoing maintenance could be more
expensive. Some of the UAT solutions also require a 2nd control head on
your panel so you can set the transponder code for the ADS-B to match
the Transponder. Others use a "sniffer" box to read the Transponder's
squawk code and set the UAT to match. Those cost a bit more, of course.
The 2-box UAT solution may cost a bit less, but will have two potential
points of failure, with either one effectively "grounding" the plane. I
happen to base my airplane at an airport that is underneath the DFW
Class Bravo airspace, so that is a big consideration for me. I would
lean towards the simpler solution for my airplane, even if it costs a
bit more to begin with, but your mileage may vary...
Hope that helps.
Jim Parker
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Double Check Antenna Placement
From: Art Zemon <art@zemon.name>
Kelly,
Yes, it does sound pretty similar to what I plan: an MGL iEFIS, one of
the IFR certified Garmin nav/comm/gps boxes, an MGL comm, and a mode S
transponder with ADS-B in+out. I thought that I understood the whole
transponder + ADS-B stuff but now I have my doubts, after reading your
note.
Can you tell me which specific transponder and ADS-B components you
installed?
Thanks,
-- Art Z.
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Double Check Antenna Placement |
Excellent summary. I used Dynon (made by Trig) 1090ES ADS-B out, and
Dynon UAT (probably also by Trig) receiver (ADS-B In). That eliminates
the need for Mode A/C transponder. It also uses the EFIS air-data for
pressure altitude, rather than needing a separate blind encoder.
Kelly
On 1/28/2017 5:30 PM, jim@PoogieBearRanch.com wrote:
>
> Art,
>
> I'm not Kelly, but I believe he was commenting about the wisdom of using
> an all-in-one ADS-B OUT 1090ES transponder solution, versus using a
> Mode-C transponder plus a UAT ADS-B OUT transmitter (Freeflight,
> NavWorx, etc.) to meet the 2020 mandate.
>
> If you're doing a complete new install, it would be simpler to install a
> single-box solution (Garmin GX-335 or-445, Stratus ESG, L3 Lynx, etc.)
> connected to your IFR GPS (WAAS). With fewer connections and fewer
> "inter-dependencies", the 1090ES solution would appear to be more
> reliable as well.
>
> But if you already have an IFR GPS (WAAS) and a good Mode-C transponder,
> you COULD just add something like a FreeFlight (or NavWorx, assuming
> they get their FAA mess cleaned up) dual-box UAT solution, which reads
> the Mode-C transponder broadcast, and supplements it with the ADS-B OUT
> data. Those UAT solutions that rely on your existing GPS and
> Transponder may cost less money to install, but will be more complex to
> integrate and configure, and ongoing maintenance could be more
> expensive. Some of the UAT solutions also require a 2nd control head on
> your panel so you can set the transponder code for the ADS-B to match
> the Transponder. Others use a "sniffer" box to read the Transponder's
> squawk code and set the UAT to match. Those cost a bit more, of course.
>
>
> The 2-box UAT solution may cost a bit less, but will have two potential
> points of failure, with either one effectively "grounding" the plane. I
> happen to base my airplane at an airport that is underneath the DFW
> Class Bravo airspace, so that is a big consideration for me. I would
> lean towards the simpler solution for my airplane, even if it costs a
> bit more to begin with, but your mileage may vary...
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> Jim Parker
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Double Check Antenna Placement
> From: Art Zemon <art@zemon.name>
> Date: Sat, January 28, 2017 4:51 pm
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>
> Kelly,
>
> Yes, it does sound pretty similar to what I plan: an MGL iEFIS, one of
> the IFR certified Garmin nav/comm/gps boxes, an MGL comm, and a mode S
> transponder with ADS-B in+out. I thought that I understood the whole
> transponder + ADS-B stuff but now I have my doubts, after reading your
> note.
>
>
> Can you tell me which specific transponder and ADS-B components you
> installed?
>
>
> Thanks,
> -- Art Z.
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Double Check Antenna Placement |
Thank you, everybody. I had thought that, regardless of the type of
transponder, I had to have a UAT box. The AOPA ADS-B OUT SELECTOR
<https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/ads-b/ads-b-selector>
set me straight. Between that and your guidance, I understand that I can
install a single Mode S Extended Squitter (1090 MHz) ADS-B transceiver,
hook it up to my approved WAAS GPS, and I will have everything that I need.
Cheers,
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Double Check Antenna Placement |
Understand that no 1090ES transponder can receive more than limited
traffic because there is not enough bandwidth available on that
frequency. To get full ADS-B In with traffic and weather, the unit needs
to receive both 1090ES and 978. If it only receives on 978 it will get
all the information, but you won't receive aircraft to aircraft traffic
from planes transmitting on 1090 ES. Dual frequency receivers are
becoming much more common, fortunately.
On 1/28/2017 7:54 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
> Thank you, everybody. I had thought that, regardless of the type of
> transponder, I had to have a UAT box. The AOPA ADS-B OUT SELECTOR
> <https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/ads-b/ads-b-selector> set
> me straight. Between that and your guidance, I understand that I can
> install a single Mode S Extended Squitter (1090 MHz) ADS-B transceiver,
> hook it up to my approved WAAS GPS, and I will have everything that I need.
>
> Cheers,
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> /"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself,
> what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel/
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