---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 01/28/17: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:40 AM - SWR meters (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 08:30 AM - Re: SWR meters (Earl Schroeder) 3. 02:57 PM - Re: Double Check Antenna Placement (Art Zemon) 4. 03:41 PM - Re: Double Check Antenna Placement (Charlie England) 5. 04:32 PM - Re: Double Check Antenna Placement () 6. 06:54 PM - Re: Double Check Antenna Placement (Kelly McMullen) 7. 06:57 PM - Re: Double Check Antenna Placement (Art Zemon) 8. 07:06 PM - Re: Double Check Antenna Placement (Kelly McMullen) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:40:45 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: SWR meters At 03:32 PM 1/26/2017, you wrote: >Some time ago when the MFJ-259 was mentioned in a post, I was >wishing you had made a 'comic book' about it's proper use associated >with aircraft testing. You were otherwise occupied at the time but >thought it was a good idea to put on your to-do list. I would still >appreciate your guidance since the included manual mentions several >things NOT to do. Knowing how to do nondestructive testing would >help. Thanks. Until I get something with the AEC flavor posted, check out youtube. There's a bunch of videos on the use of MFJ259 in particular and SWR meters in general. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:03 AM PST US From: Earl Schroeder Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: SWR meters Thanks Bob. Do not archive On Jan 28, 2017 9:45 AM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 03:32 PM 1/26/2017, you wrote: > > Some time ago when the MFJ-259 was mentioned in a post, I was wishing you > had made a 'comic book' about it's proper use associated with aircraft > testing. You were otherwise occupied at the time but thought it was a good > idea to put on your to-do list. I would still appreciate your guidance > since the included manual mentions several things NOT to do. Knowing how > to do nondestructive testing would help. Thanks. > > > Until I get something with the AEC flavor posted, > check out youtube. There's a bunch of videos on > the use of MFJ259 in particular and SWR meters > in general. > > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:57:45 PM PST US From: Art Zemon Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Double Check Antenna Placement Kelly, Yes, it does sound pretty similar to what I plan: an MGL iEFIS, one of the IFR certified Garmin nav/comm/gps boxes, an MGL comm, and a mode S transponder with ADS-B in+out. I *thought* that I understood the whole transponder + ADS-B stuff but now I have my doubts, after reading your note. Can you tell me which specific transponder and ADS-B components you installed? Thanks, -- Art Z. On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 8:53 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > kellym@aviating.com> > > I have similar equipment...GTN-650, SL30, Dynon Skyview with Dynon 1090ES > for transponder and Dynon UAT receiver for in. > I have a Bob Archer VOR antenna in each wingtip...each feeding one > navcom/GS. > Two com antennas on belly under rear seats. ADSB-out antenna right behind > firewall. ADSB-In antenna behind baggage compartment on belly > GTN-650 GPS antenna on cabin roof. Dynon GPS antenna in front of firewall > under fiberglass cowling. No marker, no ADF, no Loran (I have both units, > uninstalled from earlier aircraft). So 8 antennas, 3 under glass, 5 > external. All are performing well so far. > All on RV-10 4 place mostly metal airframe. > I cannot see installing a mode A/C transponder and UAT out unit in a new > installation to meet ADSB requirements. It means you need two boxes that > talk to each other, that both have to be tested and certified and > maintained. Why get separate GPS for ADSB when you plan on a certified GPS > that can provide the data to the ADSB box? The difference in cost is > negligible if you eliminate the extra GPS. -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:41:46 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Double Check Antenna Placement From: Charlie England Art, I'm pretty sure that if you have 978mhz adsb out, you still need a transponder of some sort. A 1090 ES transponder with a certified position source meets the 'out' requirement (which means you don't need 978mhz out). An AOPA article: https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/ads-b/what-do-i-need Charlie On 1/28/2017 4:51 PM, Art Zemon wrote: > Kelly, > > Yes, it does sound pretty similar to what I plan: an MGL iEFIS, one of > the IFR certified Garmin nav/comm/gps boxes, an MGL comm, and a mode S > transponder with ADS-B in+out. I /thought/ that I understood the whole > transponder + ADS-B stuff but now I have my doubts, after reading your > note. > > Can you tell me which specific transponder and ADS-B components you > installed? > > Thanks, > -- Art Z. > > On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 8:53 PM, Kelly McMullen > wrote: > > > > > I have similar equipment...GTN-650, SL30, Dynon Skyview with Dynon > 1090ES for transponder and Dynon UAT receiver for in. > I have a Bob Archer VOR antenna in each wingtip...each feeding one > navcom/GS. > Two com antennas on belly under rear seats. ADSB-out antenna right > behind firewall. ADSB-In antenna behind baggage compartment on belly > GTN-650 GPS antenna on cabin roof. Dynon GPS antenna in front of > firewall under fiberglass cowling. No marker, no ADF, no Loran (I > have both units, uninstalled from earlier aircraft). So 8 > antennas, 3 under glass, 5 external. All are performing well so far. > All on RV-10 4 place mostly metal airframe. > I cannot see installing a mode A/C transponder and UAT out unit in > a new installation to meet ADSB requirements. It means you need > two boxes that talk to each other, that both have to be tested and > certified and maintained. Why get separate GPS for ADSB when you > plan on a certified GPS that can provide the data to the ADSB box? > The difference in cost is negligible if you eliminate the extra GPS. > > > -- > https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ > > /"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, > what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel/ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:32:30 PM PST US From: Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Double Check Antenna Placement Art, I'm not Kelly, but I believe he was commenting about the wisdom of using an all-in-one ADS-B OUT 1090ES transponder solution, versus using a Mode-C transponder plus a UAT ADS-B OUT transmitter (Freeflight, NavWorx, etc.) to meet the 2020 mandate. If you're doing a complete new install, it would be simpler to install a single-box solution (Garmin GX-335 or-445, Stratus ESG, L3 Lynx, etc.) connected to your IFR GPS (WAAS). With fewer connections and fewer "inter-dependencies", the 1090ES solution would appear to be more reliable as well. But if you already have an IFR GPS (WAAS) and a good Mode-C transponder, you COULD just add something like a FreeFlight (or NavWorx, assuming they get their FAA mess cleaned up) dual-box UAT solution, which reads the Mode-C transponder broadcast, and supplements it with the ADS-B OUT data. Those UAT solutions that rely on your existing GPS and Transponder may cost less money to install, but will be more complex to integrate and configure, and ongoing maintenance could be more expensive. Some of the UAT solutions also require a 2nd control head on your panel so you can set the transponder code for the ADS-B to match the Transponder. Others use a "sniffer" box to read the Transponder's squawk code and set the UAT to match. Those cost a bit more, of course. The 2-box UAT solution may cost a bit less, but will have two potential points of failure, with either one effectively "grounding" the plane. I happen to base my airplane at an airport that is underneath the DFW Class Bravo airspace, so that is a big consideration for me. I would lean towards the simpler solution for my airplane, even if it costs a bit more to begin with, but your mileage may vary... Hope that helps. Jim Parker -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Double Check Antenna Placement From: Art Zemon Kelly, Yes, it does sound pretty similar to what I plan: an MGL iEFIS, one of the IFR certified Garmin nav/comm/gps boxes, an MGL comm, and a mode S transponder with ADS-B in+out. I thought that I understood the whole transponder + ADS-B stuff but now I have my doubts, after reading your note. Can you tell me which specific transponder and ADS-B components you installed? Thanks, -- Art Z. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Double Check Antenna Placement From: Kelly McMullen Excellent summary. I used Dynon (made by Trig) 1090ES ADS-B out, and Dynon UAT (probably also by Trig) receiver (ADS-B In). That eliminates the need for Mode A/C transponder. It also uses the EFIS air-data for pressure altitude, rather than needing a separate blind encoder. Kelly On 1/28/2017 5:30 PM, jim@PoogieBearRanch.com wrote: > > Art, > > I'm not Kelly, but I believe he was commenting about the wisdom of using > an all-in-one ADS-B OUT 1090ES transponder solution, versus using a > Mode-C transponder plus a UAT ADS-B OUT transmitter (Freeflight, > NavWorx, etc.) to meet the 2020 mandate. > > If you're doing a complete new install, it would be simpler to install a > single-box solution (Garmin GX-335 or-445, Stratus ESG, L3 Lynx, etc.) > connected to your IFR GPS (WAAS). With fewer connections and fewer > "inter-dependencies", the 1090ES solution would appear to be more > reliable as well. > > But if you already have an IFR GPS (WAAS) and a good Mode-C transponder, > you COULD just add something like a FreeFlight (or NavWorx, assuming > they get their FAA mess cleaned up) dual-box UAT solution, which reads > the Mode-C transponder broadcast, and supplements it with the ADS-B OUT > data. Those UAT solutions that rely on your existing GPS and > Transponder may cost less money to install, but will be more complex to > integrate and configure, and ongoing maintenance could be more > expensive. Some of the UAT solutions also require a 2nd control head on > your panel so you can set the transponder code for the ADS-B to match > the Transponder. Others use a "sniffer" box to read the Transponder's > squawk code and set the UAT to match. Those cost a bit more, of course. > > > The 2-box UAT solution may cost a bit less, but will have two potential > points of failure, with either one effectively "grounding" the plane. I > happen to base my airplane at an airport that is underneath the DFW > Class Bravo airspace, so that is a big consideration for me. I would > lean towards the simpler solution for my airplane, even if it costs a > bit more to begin with, but your mileage may vary... > > Hope that helps. > > Jim Parker > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Double Check Antenna Placement > From: Art Zemon > Date: Sat, January 28, 2017 4:51 pm > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > > Kelly, > > Yes, it does sound pretty similar to what I plan: an MGL iEFIS, one of > the IFR certified Garmin nav/comm/gps boxes, an MGL comm, and a mode S > transponder with ADS-B in+out. I thought that I understood the whole > transponder + ADS-B stuff but now I have my doubts, after reading your > note. > > > Can you tell me which specific transponder and ADS-B components you > installed? > > > Thanks, > -- Art Z. > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:10 PM PST US From: Art Zemon Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Double Check Antenna Placement Thank you, everybody. I had thought that, regardless of the type of transponder, I had to have a UAT box. The AOPA ADS-B OUT SELECTOR set me straight. Between that and your guidance, I understand that I can install a single Mode S Extended Squitter (1090 MHz) ADS-B transceiver, hook it up to my approved WAAS GPS, and I will have everything that I need. Cheers, -- Art Z. -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:11 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Double Check Antenna Placement From: Kelly McMullen Understand that no 1090ES transponder can receive more than limited traffic because there is not enough bandwidth available on that frequency. To get full ADS-B In with traffic and weather, the unit needs to receive both 1090ES and 978. If it only receives on 978 it will get all the information, but you won't receive aircraft to aircraft traffic from planes transmitting on 1090 ES. Dual frequency receivers are becoming much more common, fortunately. On 1/28/2017 7:54 PM, Art Zemon wrote: > Thank you, everybody. I had thought that, regardless of the type of > transponder, I had to have a UAT box. The AOPA ADS-B OUT SELECTOR > set > me straight. Between that and your guidance, I understand that I can > install a single Mode S Extended Squitter (1090 MHz) ADS-B transceiver, > hook it up to my approved WAAS GPS, and I will have everything that I need. > > Cheers, > -- Art Z. > > -- > https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ > > /"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, > what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.