---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 02/18/17: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:05 AM - Zip Ties (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net) 2. 06:15 AM - Re: Zip Ties (Robert Borger) 3. 08:20 AM - Re: Tie Wraps For Wire Bundles (Ken Ryan) 4. 01:35 PM - Re: Tie Wraps For Wire Bundles (jrevens) 5. 06:38 PM - Re: Solder Station (johnbright) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:05:39 AM PST US From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net Subject: AeroElectric-List: Zip Ties Guys Take a look at Panduit Parallel Entry Zip Ties. ( Google it ) Saves a lot of cut hands in tight spaces and looks a little neater. Bobby ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:48 AM PST US From: Robert Borger Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Zip Ties Gents, Also =9CCobra Cable Ties=9D for a tie with no big =9Ckno t=9D sticking up and a very flat tie. Also does not have the cut end sticking up to grab things. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Feb 18, 2017, at 7:01 AM, BobbyPaulk@comcast.net wrote: Guys Take a look at Panduit Parallel Entry Zip Ties. ( Google it ) Saves a lot of cut hands in tight spaces and looks a little neater. Bobby ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:38 AM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Tie Wraps For Wire Bundles For inside the engine compartment, cable ties made of Tefzel are available (although expensive). On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 10:45 PM, Peter Pengilly wrote: > There is more to the common or garden ty-rap/zip-tie/cable-wrap than is > first apparent. I have a government customer who insists on only external ly > serrated ties with no metal locking tang - your buyer has to be careful t o > get the correct items! > > I tend to replace any firewall forward ty-rap every few years to ensure > the is no damage to the motor mount tubes. I keep a pair of flush cutting > side cutters specifically for cutting the tails. > > In a production environment, with everything to hand, ty-raps can save > time and require less skill (so are cheaper). I have more lacing chord on > my aeroplane than ty-raps... > > Peter > > On 18 Feb 2017 01:09, "Stuart Hutchison" > wrote: > >> As Bob described to in the polishing rag example, tie looseness (whether >> incorrectly tensioned or due tie stretching or soft paint migrating away >> from underneath the tie) + vibration = relative motion + contaminants >> wear and tear. Not everyone will observe wear and tear from plastic zip >> ties on metal, depending on application and maintenance, but it is a fac t >> that some people do experience this and I have seen it for myself. An A del >> clamp will do the same thing if loose, but at least it has greater surfa ce >> contact area to spread the load. Better to recommend best practices on t he >> forum, but they are not the =98only=99 practices that work. >> >> Cheers, Stu >> >> On 18 Feb 2017, at 09:38, Charlie England wrote: >> >> Here's a thread from VAF: >> http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=82012 >> Unfortunately, images are likely long gone, since the forum (for profit) >> owner refuses to host images on the forum site. Images therefore disappe ar >> over time, as hosting services go out of business or users let their >> accounts expire. >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Kent or Jackie Ashton > > wrote: >> >>> kjashton@vnet.net> >>> >>> I=99d appreciate seeing a picture of a plastic zip tie eating int o the >>> metal of a 4130 tube. A google images search of =9Czip tie engin e mount tube >>> wear=9D does not show any images. Usually something as serious a s that has >>> been documented somewhere with a picture. >>> >>> I have 650 hours on my Cozy and several hundred hours in other canards >>> where the zip ties have left no mark on the engine mount paint. I supp ose >>> it=99s possible but until someone actually shows me an example, I will >>> continue to zip tie wires to the engine mount with bit of cushion over the >>> wire. I would not consider silicone tape to be a good cushion. It see ms >>> to soft but if it works for others, fine. >>> >>> -Kent >>> Technical Counselor >>> >>> > On Feb 17, 2017, at 9:56 AM, neal.george@gmail.com wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > Most definitely not an old wives' tale. I have grounded several >>> aircraft for this damage >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:35:43 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Tie Wraps For Wire Bundles From: "jrevens" I really have to disagree with the blanket idea expressed in the "Maintenance Matters" article that "using tie wraps to secure wire bundles is poor practice." Like just about anything we do with our aircraft there are right ways and wrong ways, and some materials, tools and techniques are better than others. Lacing wire bundles is great, but using wire ties can also be just fine. Also, there are tight places where lacing is a real PITA. As Bob said, some factory-built aircraft have used wire ties successfully. On the new Rotax engine that I recently bought, Rotax used relatively inexpensive looking wire ties all over it to keep ignition wiring, hoses, etc. in their proper positions. I have used wire ties, both behind the panel, in the engine compartment, and elsewhere on my first homebuilt that was an Oshkosh and other fly-ins award winner. I have been flying that airplane for 26 years, and there has not been a single problem due to them... not one. I am using them on my latest project also. I use the best ones that I am familiar with - T&B with the stainless steel insert & in UV resistant black nylon. They are pricey but one of the best, if not the best, IMHO. I don't think the UV issue is terribly important (how much direct sunlight does the back of an instrument panel, or an engine compartment actually see anyway?), but I think they are also longer lasting in general. I protect structural tubing, usually with a layer of tough polyurethane anti-abrasion tape, and often the wire also, with that or a self-fusing rubber tape when using them. As far as contact area goes, even some of the smaller wire ties have greater width/contact area against the wire than lacing cord does. As others have said, there is really no problem cutting them properly to avoid sharp edges. It really bugs me when someone makes a statement like that in a popular magazine, and then the widely-held opinion (as people "pile-on") is that this or that is "bad" or "poor practice" in general. -------- John Evens Thorp T-18 N71JE (built & flying) Kitfox SS7 N27JE (building) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466424#466424 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:31 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Solder Station From: "johnbright" Metcal... what model number to look for on eBay... cartridge or tip hand piece? -------- John Bright, RV-6A, at Finish Kit Continental Titan IOX-360, 8.5:1, vertical sump, SDSEFI EM-5, injectors in heads. Aeroelectric Z-12. 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