---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 02/22/17: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:34 AM - DuaL Fuel Pump Question (Wladimir Kummer) 2. 11:06 AM - Re: Re: mystery coax signal splitter (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 12:01 PM - Coaxial Cable (William Hunter) 4. 12:22 PM - Re: Reedswitch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 01:36 PM - Re: Reedswitch (Bernie Willis) 6. 01:42 PM - Re: Reedswitch (Alec Myers) 7. 02:22 PM - Re: Reedswitch (Charlie England) 8. 02:32 PM - Re: Coaxial Cable (Charlie England) 9. 03:10 PM - Re: Reedswitch (Alec Myers) 10. 03:37 PM - Re: Reedswitch (Charlie England) 11. 03:50 PM - headset matching to radio (Dana) 12. 04:57 PM - Re: headset matching to radio (Eric Page) 13. 05:21 PM - Re: headset matching to radio (Dana) 14. 05:47 PM - Re: headset matching to radio (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 15. 05:48 PM - Re: Coaxial Cable (William Hunter) 16. 06:13 PM - Re: headset matching to radio (Dana) 17. 07:01 PM - Re: Re: headset matching to radio (Charlie England) 18. 09:08 PM - Re: Coaxial Cable (Charlie England) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:15 AM PST US From: Wladimir Kummer Subject: AeroElectric-List: DuaL Fuel Pump Question Hi all, Im building a Europa XS Motorglider which will be powered by a Cont 0200. The lower fuse is almost ready to be mated to its upper counterpart. However Im determined to do as much work as possible before I close it and this includes most electric installation. Since my engine does not have a mechanical fuel pump Ill be using a dual electric fuel pump set up. The pumps are going to be connected hydraulically in series but Im unsure about the better electric installation. I therefore ask for help. More info. The pumps are located at mid fuse, unsure about the battery but probably will have one near the pumps to help with the balance. Pumps are Facet 40106 which are rated @ 1.7amp each. Ideas? Wlad ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:06:21 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: mystery coax signal splitter >Well, double Duhh...If I'd actually looked at that, I'd have known >better to even send the message. I pulled an ancient LORAN out of >the plane after I purchased it about 15 years ago. I wonder if this >could be residue from that installation. Obviously, it's not a >VOR/GS splitter, so it's very unlikely to be of any use to me. Aha! Yes. Those components were physically a bit 'horsy' for UHF/VHF circuity . . . but I'm at bit puzzled at how it might function as an add-on to a legacy aircraft. It couldn't be used to receive on a vhf comm antenna due to the need to also transmit throught the same path. A VOR antenna with no frequency dependent features (like matching sections or baluns) MIGHT offer some performance at 100KHz LORAN levels . . . it's a puzzlement. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:01:48 PM PST US From: "William Hunter" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Coaxial Cable Hi All, I am replacing the coaxial cables for my transponder, ADS-B, Nav, and Comm antennas. What kind of coaxial cable, set of crimp tools, and ends do you all recommend? .. THANKS!!! Bill Hunter ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:22:58 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Reedswitch At 09:52 PM 2/21/2017, you wrote: > >The reed switch is sensitive to magnetic fields. The five turns >("5T" on the diagram) of wire around the switch act as an inductor, >creating a magnetic field that will close the switch when the pitot >heater is drawing current. This will turn on the LED indicator >without having to directly interrupt the feed to the heater or its >control relay. Correct. See http://tinyurl.com/htf4elj Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:36:28 PM PST US From: Bernie Willis Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Reedswitch That=99s a cleaver idea. I put an analog ammeter in the circuit for the same reason but not as sophisticated. Bernie > On Feb 22, 2017, at 11:19 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > At 09:52 PM 2/21/2017, you wrote: >> >> The reed switch is sensitive to magnetic fields. The five turns ("5T" on the diagram) of wire around the switch act as an inductor, creating a magnetic field that will close the switch when the pitot heater is drawing current. This will turn on the LED indicator without having to directly interrupt the feed to the heater or its control relay. > > Correct. See http://tinyurl.com/htf4elj > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:42:30 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Reedswitch From: Alec Myers ...and the meter in series inserts extra points of failure. The reed switch is such a smart idea because it's a parallel circuit, but one that's sensitive to the heat-providing current flowing. On 22Feb2017, at 4:32 PM, Bernie Willis wrote: Thats a cleaver idea. I put an analog ammeter in the circuit for the same reason but not as sophisticated. Bernie > On Feb 22, 2017, at 11:19 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > At 09:52 PM 2/21/2017, you wrote: >> >> The reed switch is sensitive to magnetic fields. The five turns ("5T" on the diagram) of wire around the switch act as an inductor, creating a magnetic field that will close the switch when the pitot heater is drawing current. This will turn on the LED indicator without having to directly interrupt the feed to the heater or its control relay. > > Correct. See http://tinyurl.com/htf4elj > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:22:25 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Reedswitch From: Charlie England Not heat; magnetism. The coil generates a magnetic field around the reed switch, closing it. On 2/22/2017 3:39 PM, Alec Myers wrote: > > ...and the meter in series inserts extra points of failure. > The reed switch is such a smart idea because it's a parallel circuit, but one that's sensitive to the heat-providing current flowing. > On 22Feb2017, at 4:32 PM, Bernie Willis wrote: > > Thats a cleaver idea. I put an analog ammeter in the circuit for the same reason but not as sophisticated. > > Bernie >> On Feb 22, 2017, at 11:19 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >> >> At 09:52 PM 2/21/2017, you wrote: >>> >>> The reed switch is sensitive to magnetic fields. The five turns ("5T" on the diagram) of wire around the switch act as an inductor, creating a magnetic field that will close the switch when the pitot heater is drawing current. This will turn on the LED indicator without having to directly interrupt the feed to the heater or its control relay. >> Correct. See http://tinyurl.com/htf4elj >> >> Bob . . . >> ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:32:50 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Coaxial Cable From: Charlie England On 2/22/2017 1:56 PM, William Hunter wrote: > > Hi All, > > I am replacing the coaxial cables for my transponder, ADS-B, Nav, and > Comm antennas. > > What kind of coaxial cable, set of crimp tools, and ends do you all > recommend? > > .. > > THANKS!!! > > Bill Hunter > Are they bad? UV damaged insulation? Cut? Pinched? "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." (It might get broke. :-) ) If you just gotta do it, RG400 is 'better' than RG58 stranded (good enough). But never forget; better is the enemy of good enough. Look at prices. Look at ease of field maintenance if you can get to a consumer electronics store on a weekend for RG58 crimp connectors, but can't get RG400 crimp connectors until Tuesday. Look at B&C http://www.bandc.aero/aircraft-electrical-tools.aspx or Stein http://www.steinair.com/product-category/tools/crimpers/ for tools Coax & BNC connectors, as well. Charlie ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:10:04 PM PST US From: Alec Myers Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Reedswitch It's a pitot heat circuit, right? We're sensing the current that generates the heat in the pitot head. I-squared R and all that. > On Feb 22, 2017, at 5:19 PM, Charlie England wrote: > > > Not heat; magnetism. The coil generates a magnetic field around the reed switch, closing it. > >> On 2/22/2017 3:39 PM, Alec Myers wrote: >> >> ...and the meter in series inserts extra points of failure. >> The reed switch is such a smart idea because it's a parallel circuit, but one that's sensitive to the heat-providing current flowing. >> On 22Feb2017, at 4:32 PM, Bernie Willis wrote: >> >> Thats a cleaver idea. I put an analog ammeter in the circuit for the same reason but not as sophisticated. >> >> Bernie >>> On Feb 22, 2017, at 11:19 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >>> >>> At 09:52 PM 2/21/2017, you wrote: >>>> >>>> The reed switch is sensitive to magnetic fields. The five turns ("5T" on the diagram) of wire around the switch act as an inductor, creating a magnetic field that will close the switch when the pitot heater is drawing current. This will turn on the LED indicator without having to directly interrupt the feed to the heater or its control relay. >>> Correct. See http://tinyurl.com/htf4elj >>> >>> Bob . . . >>> > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:37:37 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Reedswitch From: Charlie England Sorry; the phrasing tricked me. I mis-read it as saying the reed switch was sensitive to the heat. On 2/22/2017 5:05 PM, Alec Myers wrote: > > It's a pitot heat circuit, right? We're sensing the current that generates the heat in the pitot head. I-squared R and all that. > >> On Feb 22, 2017, at 5:19 PM, Charlie England wrote: >> >> >> Not heat; magnetism. The coil generates a magnetic field around the reed switch, closing it. >> >>> On 2/22/2017 3:39 PM, Alec Myers wrote: >>> >>> ...and the meter in series inserts extra points of failure. >>> The reed switch is such a smart idea because it's a parallel circuit, but one that's sensitive to the heat-providing current flowing. >>> On 22Feb2017, at 4:32 PM, Bernie Willis wrote: >>> >>> Thats a cleaver idea. I put an analog ammeter in the circuit for the same reason but not as sophisticated. >>> >>> Bernie >>>> On Feb 22, 2017, at 11:19 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >>>> >>>> At 09:52 PM 2/21/2017, you wrote: >>>>> >>>>> The reed switch is sensitive to magnetic fields. The five turns ("5T" on the diagram) of wire around the switch act as an inductor, creating a magnetic field that will close the switch when the pitot heater is drawing current. This will turn on the LED indicator without having to directly interrupt the feed to the heater or its control relay. >>>> Correct. See http://tinyurl.com/htf4elj >>>> >>>> Bob . . . >>>> ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:50:02 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: headset matching to radio From: "Dana" I could use some help on headset and microphone wiring. I just purchased a Starduster One, which is currently 1000 miles from my home. I plan to fly it home in a month or so. Before I do that, I need to get the communications worked out. The plane has a King KY97A radio installed, with the typical 1/4 and 3/16" jacks for a headset. The owner's headset works fine, but he's keeping it and I don't own one (or not a standard one). In my current plane, I've been using an Icom A24 with a homemade headset consisting of consumer stereo earbuds and an electret microphone salvaged from an old computer headset. This works just fine. I have also used a Comtronics helmet with the Icom radio, and it worked fine as well (aside from the Icom transmit squeal, which is a separate issue that I solved). Anyway, my question is, will the homemade setup, which works with the Icom, work with the King or will I need some additional matching electronics? The Icom specs say 100kohm mic, 8ohm earphones, whereas the King installation manual says "Standard carbon or dynamic mic containing transistor-ized preamp. Must provide 100 mVrms into 100 ohm load," and receiver output "100 mW minimum into 500 ohms or 4 W into 4 ohms". I presume the 4 ohm is for a cabin mounted speaker and the 500 ohm is for a headset, which means I'd need an impedance matching transformer for the earbuds? As for the microphone, if it's looking for a dynamic mike with a preamp, it should work with an electret as is? The problem is with the airplane 1000 miles away, I have to prep everything here at home, and it needs to "just work" when I pick the plane up as I won't have much time to fool around with it before departing. Thanks for any help. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466515#466515 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:33 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: headset matching to radio From: Eric Page This isn't an answer to your question, but... Do your hearing a favor and get a proper noise-attenuating aviation headset. There are inexpensive options available if that's the issue, but *any* hea dset is $hundreds$ cheaper than your first set of hearing aids when you suff er hearing loss from noise exposure. This is especially critical in an open cockpit. If you like in-ear headsets, I can heartily recommend Clarity Aloft: https://www.clarityaloft.com/ I've been using one in commercial flying for years and I love it. It's quie ter than my old David-Clark H10-80 that was upgraded with an ANR kit, and I c an wear it for hours with no discomfort. Another very similar but cheaper option is the Quiet Technologies Halo: http://www.quiettechnologies.com/ Eric > On Feb 22, 2017, at 3:47 PM, Dana wrote: > I could use some help on headset and microphone wiring. > > I just purchased a Starduster One, which is currently 1000 miles from my h ome. I plan to fly it home in a month or so. Before I do that, I need to g et the communications worked out. > > The plane has a King KY97A radio installed, with the typical 1/4 and 3/16" jacks for a headset. The owner's headset works fine, but he's keeping it a nd I don't own one (or not a standard one). > > In my current plane, I've been using an Icom A24 with a homemade headset c onsisting of consumer stereo earbuds and an electret microphone salvaged fro m an old computer headset. This works just fine. I have also used a Comtro nics helmet with the Icom radio, and it worked fine as well (aside from the I com transmit squeal, which is a separate issue that I solved). > > Anyway, my question is, will the homemade setup, which works with the Icom , work with the King or will I need some additional matching electronics? T he Icom specs say 100kohm mic, 8ohm earphones, whereas the King installation manual says "Standard carbon or dynamic mic containing transistor-ized prea mp. Must provide 100 mVrms into 100 ohm load," and receiver output "100 mW m inimum into 500 ohms or 4 W into 4 ohms". I presume the 4 ohm is for a cabi n mounted speaker and the 500 ohm is for a headset, which means I'd need an i mpedance matching transformer for the earbuds? As for the microphone, if it 's looking for a dynamic mike with a preamp, it should work with an electret as is? > > The problem is with the airplane 1000 miles away, I have to prep everythin g here at home, and it needs to "just work" when I pick the plane up as I wo n't have much time to fool around with it before departing. > > Thanks for any help. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:49 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: headset matching to radio From: "Dana" I should have been more clear; I'm using noise canceling earbuds, not ordinary ones. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466522#466522 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:27 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: headset matching to radio At 05:47 PM 2/22/2017, you wrote: > >I could use some help on headset and microphone wiring. > >I just purchased a Starduster One, which is currently 1000 miles >from my home. I plan to fly it home in a month or so. Before I do >that, I need to get the communications worked out. > >The plane has a King KY97A radio installed, with the typical 1/4 and >3/16" jacks for a headset. The owner's headset works fine, but he's >keeping it and I don't own one (or not a standard one). > >In my current plane, I've been using an Icom A24 with a homemade >headset consisting of consumer stereo earbuds and an electret >microphone salvaged from an old computer headset. This works just >fine. I have also used a Comtronics helmet with the Icom radio, and >it worked fine as well (aside from the Icom transmit squeal, which >is a separate issue that I solved). > >Anyway, my question is, will the homemade setup, which works with >the Icom, work with the King or will I need some additional matching >electronics? The Icom specs say 100kohm mic, 8ohm earphones, >whereas the King installation manual says "Standard carbon or >dynamic mic containing transistor-ized preamp. Must provide 100 >mVrms into 100 ohm load," and receiver output "100 mW minimum into >500 ohms or 4 W into 4 ohms". I presume the 4 ohm is for a cabin >mounted speaker and the 500 ohm is for a headset, which means I'd >need an impedance matching transformer for the earbuds? As for the >microphone, if it's looking for a dynamic mike with a preamp, it >should work with an electret as is? > >The problem is with the airplane 1000 miles away, I have to prep >everything here at home, and it needs to "just work" when I pick the >plane up as I won't have much time to fool around with it before departing. Your DIY audio rig is not legacy compatible for aircraft. Virtually ALL off-the-shelf mic/headsets for aircraft are electret elements fitted with the amplifier described. Suggest you borrow a legacy headset to get the airplane home where your efforts to adapt the DIY system will are easier to accomplish. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:16 PM PST US From: "William Hunter" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Coaxial Cable > If you just gotta do it, Yep.when ya gotta.ya just gotta. This is a new install of transponder and ADS-B. Thanks for the advice. I definitely need to measure out the EXACT length of cable that I need (plus a little bit more for mama and the kids) as the RG400 is kinda pricey. Hmmm, I guess the higher number of RG's means the more money it costs?!?!? I was hoping for more like an RG4. Anyhoo, thanks for the advice. .. Cheers!!! Bill Hunter From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 2:31 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Coaxial Cable On 2/22/2017 1:56 PM, William Hunter wrote: Hi All, I am replacing the coaxial cables for my transponder, ADS-B, Nav, and Comm antennas. What kind of coaxial cable, set of crimp tools, and ends do you all recommend? .. THANKS!!! Bill Hunter Are they bad? UV damaged insulation? Cut? Pinched? "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." (It might get broke. :-) ) If you just gotta do it, RG400 is 'better' than RG58 stranded (good enough). But never forget; better is the enemy of good enough. Look at prices. Look at ease of field maintenance if you can get to a consumer electronics store on a weekend for RG58 crimp connectors, but can't get RG400 crimp connectors until Tuesday. Look at B&C http://www.bandc.aero/aircraft-electrical-tools.aspx or Stein http://www.steinair.com/product-category/tools/crimpers/ for tools Coax & BNC connectors, as well. Charlie ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:17 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: headset matching to radio From: "Dana" nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote: > > Your DIY audio rig is not legacy compatible for > aircraft. Virtually ALL off-the-shelf mic/headsets > for aircraft are electret elements fitted with > the amplifier described. Suggest you borrow a > legacy headset to get the airplane home where > your efforts to adapt the DIY system will are > easier to accomplish. That's probably what I'll do, unless I can get something together and tested here. I have a month or two. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466529#466529 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:06 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: headset matching to radio From: Charlie England On 2/22/2017 8:08 PM, Dana wrote: > > > nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote: >> Your DIY audio rig is not legacy compatible for >> aircraft. Virtually ALL off-the-shelf mic/headsets >> for aircraft are electret elements fitted with >> the amplifier described. Suggest you borrow a >> legacy headset to get the airplane home where >> your efforts to adapt the DIY system will are >> easier to accomplish. > > That's probably what I'll do, unless I can get something together and tested here. I have a month or two. > > Just plug your rig into an airport neighbor's plane with the same or similar age radio. You'll know fairly quickly if it's compatible or not. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:08:36 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Coaxial Cable From: Charlie England My neighbor installs adsb's in certified a/c as a dealer/repair station. He uses RG58 coax exclusively. Check the specs. 'Better is the enemy of good enough.' Charlie On Feb 22, 2017, 7:56 PM, at 7:56 PM, William Hunter wrote: >> If you just gotta do it, > > > >Yep.when ya gotta.ya just gotta. > > > >This is a new install of transponder and ADS-B. > > > >Thanks for the advice. I definitely need to measure out the EXACT >length of >cable that I need (plus a little bit more for mama and the kids) as the >RG400 is kinda pricey. Hmmm, I guess the higher number of RG's means >the >more money it costs?!?!? I was hoping for more like an RG4. > > > >Anyhoo, thanks for the advice. > > > >.. > > > >Cheers!!! > > > >Bill Hunter > > > > > > > > > >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >Charlie >England >Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 2:31 PM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Coaxial Cable > > > >On 2/22/2017 1:56 PM, William Hunter wrote: > >Hi All, > > > >I am replacing the coaxial cables for my transponder, ADS-B, Nav, and >Comm >antennas. > > > >What kind of coaxial cable, set of crimp tools, and ends do you all >recommend? > > > >.. > > > >THANKS!!! > > > >Bill Hunter > > > > > > > > > >Are they bad? UV damaged insulation? Cut? Pinched? "If it ain't broke, >don't >fix it." (It might get broke. :-) ) > >If you just gotta do it, RG400 is 'better' than RG58 stranded (good >enough). >But never forget; better is the enemy of good enough. Look at prices. >Look >at ease of field maintenance if you can get to a consumer electronics >store >on a weekend for RG58 crimp connectors, but can't get RG400 crimp >connectors >until Tuesday. > >Look at B&C >http://www.bandc.aero/aircraft-electrical-tools.aspx > or Stein >http://www.steinair.com/product-category/tools/crimpers/ >for tools > >Coax & BNC connectors, as well. > >Charlie ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.