Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:53 AM - Re: Kannad Integra ELT (Stuart Hutchison)
2. 03:29 AM - Re: Kannad Integra ELT (William Daniell)
3. 05:31 AM - Re: Kannad Integra ELT (Kelly McMullen)
4. 06:10 AM - Re: Kannad Integra ELT (John Tipton)
5. 06:23 AM - Re: Kannad Integra ELT (C&K)
6. 06:46 AM - Re: Kannad Integra ELT (Alec Myers)
7. 07:07 AM - Re: Kannad Integra ELT (Eric Page)
8. 08:30 AM - Re: 3PDT switch swap for relay? (user9253)
9. 08:35 AM - Re: Kannad Integra ELT (Ken Ryan)
10. 08:37 AM - Re: 3PDT switch swap for relay? (user9253)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Kannad Integra ELT |
Hey Ken,
Theres an important safety point to clarify.
The RCC will know that you (specifically you) are experiencing an emergency almost
immediately after a serviceable 406 ELT activation, but without a GPS position
they cant know where you are because the satellites can't fix "a rough triangulated
position" in quick time. To fix non-GPS ELTs, a range of multi-role
Low Earth Orbit (LEO) satellites (such as NOAA satellites with a COSPAS/SARSAT
payload) track a network of orbital paths over the Earth (seemingly straight-line
to a ground-based observer). These satellites receive and triangulate
ELT/PLB/EPIRB fixes sent on 406.025 MHz, but the satellite cant tell which side
you are on, so one satellite pass produces both a true and a false Doppler fix
on opposite sides of track. Unless one fix is wildly improbable, first responders
will often wait for a second, corroborating fix to resolve the ambiguity.
Coverage is probably more saturated over the USA than here in Aus, but it
can still take hours to resolve the ambiguity with a second LEO satellite pass
on a different track. The accuracy of the Doppler fix depends on the stability
of the ELT transmission frequency, which is why the old 121.5 / 243.0 MHz
satellite receiver component was decommissioned over a decade ago (and that swept-tone
ELT signals were generic and not unique to a particular platform, plus
there was a 95% false alarm rate). For example, one of our old C-130H ELTs
ejected from the tail in a known location and it took the LEO satellite system
9.5 hours to Doppler fix the initial location. Admittedly that was 121.5 / 243.0
MHz with poor frequency stability, but its the same LEO satellite network
Doppler fixing our modern 406.025MHz signals. ELTs are still required to have
121.5 MHZ (and perhaps 243.0 MHz for military) as a homing signal for the final
rescue itself, but this is why GPS is so important.
Once activated, most modern GPSs will fix themselves in seconds (up to less than
a few minutes depending on almanac download status, which happens via the GPS
satellites) and then append the fix position in the 'long message' format to
the Rescue Coordination Centre (RCC) via a GEO-stationary satellite (orbiting
at the same rate the Earth rotates in space, so essentially stationary overhead
each continent). In this way an accurate GPS position is simply bounced' off
the GEO satellite to the RCC rather than waiting for passing LEO satellites
to Doppler fix. Before the first GPS fix is achieved the ELT will nevertheless
relay your unique 15 digit HEXID to the RCC (which, BTW, can be programmed to
incorporate the 24-bit address code assigned to the aircrafts ADS-B transponder
if you have one), so the RCC knows you have an emergency almost instantly.
Food for thought:
If you turn the ELT on in flight, it will begin to GPS fix and append the position
in the signal to the RCC, but it could be that first fix takes longer than
you have before reaching the ground/water. If you dont have time to turn the
ELT on, it will probably activate on impact (my Kannad Compact certainly does),
however, success then depends on continued integrity of the coax cable between
the ELT and its antenna, which may be vulnerable to crash damage in your particular
installation (perhaps lightly retained 'service loops' would be wise).
Pre-loading the ELT with aircraft GPS position buys you some time to get your
position off to the RCC on the way down (if you activate the ELT), but either
way, the ELT isnt much use if the aircraft sinks underwater, in which case
you would want to be floating around with a separate GPS PLB attached to you.
My decision was to install an automatic ELT with in-built GPS (non aircraft integrated)
that I intend to activate immediately in an emergency. If the ELT is
damaged, subsequently fails or I have to swim out of the cockpit, I also have
a PLB attached to myself. Militaries the world over do this too (in both ejection
seat and non-ejection seat aircraft).
V/R Stu
> On 28 Feb 2017, at 12:48, C&K <yellowduckduo@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> A couple of years ago my choice came down to a kannad that does not need an
external antenna but does take several minutes to locate its gps position
> or
> the Ack that receives gps location from my portable nav gps and aircraft power
whenever my master switch is on, and can therefore instantly transmit that gps
position without taking minutes to locate the gps position when activated.
>
> The satelites should get a rough triangulated position from the kannad immediately
but not a precise gps position. OTOH loss of an external antenna on competing
ELT's is a significant concern. I don't know how much of this still applies
to the current units.
>
> Ken
>
> On 27/02/2017 6:55 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
>> Folks,
>>
>> Do you have any thoughts about the Kannad Integrat ELT? It is several hundred
dollars less expensive than the competition.
>> https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/kannadintegraeasy.php
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -- Art Z.
>>
>> --
>> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>>
>> /"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am
I? And if not now, when?" Hillel/
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Kannad Integra ELT |
Are ELT obligatory in the usa and canada?
Will
On Feb 28, 2017 05:59, "Stuart Hutchison" <stuart@stuarthutchison.com.au>
wrote:
> stuart@stuarthutchison.com.au>
>
> Hey Ken,
>
> There=99s an important safety point to clarify.
>
> The RCC will know that you (specifically you) are experiencing an
> emergency almost immediately after a serviceable 406 ELT activation, but
> without a GPS position they can=99t know where you are because the
satellites
> can't fix "a rough triangulated position" in quick time. To fix non-GPS
> ELTs, a range of multi-role Low Earth Orbit (LEO) satellites (such as NOA
A
> satellites with a COSPAS/SARSAT payload) track a network of orbital paths
> over the Earth (seemingly straight-line to a ground-based observer). The
se
> satellites receive and triangulate ELT/PLB/EPIRB fixes sent on 406.025 MH
z,
> but the satellite can=99t tell which side you are on, so one satell
ite pass
> produces both a true and a false Doppler fix on opposite sides of track.
> Unless one fix is wildly improbable, first responders will often wait for
a
> second, corroborating fix to resolve the ambiguity. Coverage is probably
> more saturated over the USA than here in Aus, but it can still take hours
> to resolve the ambiguity!
> with a second LEO satellite pass on a different track. The accuracy of
> the Doppler fix depends on the stability of the ELT transmission frequenc
y,
> which is why the old 121.5 / 243.0 MHz satellite receiver component was
> decommissioned over a decade ago (and that swept-tone ELT signals were
> generic and not unique to a particular platform, plus there was a 95% fal
se
> alarm rate). For example, one of our old C-130H ELTs ejected from the ta
il
> in a known location and it took the LEO satellite system 9.5 hours to
> Doppler fix the initial location. Admittedly that was 121.5 / 243.0 MHz
> with poor frequency stability, but its the same LEO satellite network
> Doppler fixing our modern 406.025MHz signals. ELTs are still required to
> have 121.5 MHZ (and perhaps 243.0 MHz for military) as a homing signal fo
r
> the final rescue itself, but this is why GPS is so important.
>
> Once activated, most modern GPSs will fix themselves in seconds (up to
> less than a few minutes depending on almanac download status, which happe
ns
> via the GPS satellites) and then append the fix position in the 'long
> message' format to the Rescue Coordination Centre (RCC) via a
> GEO-stationary satellite (orbiting at the same rate the Earth rotates in
> space, so essentially stationary overhead each continent). In this way an
> accurate GPS position is simply =98bounced' off the GEO satellite t
o the RCC
> rather than waiting for passing LEO satellites to Doppler fix. Before th
e
> first GPS fix is achieved the ELT will nevertheless relay your unique 15
> digit HEXID to the RCC (which, BTW, can be programmed to incorporate the
> 24-bit address code assigned to the aircraft=99s ADS-B transponder
if you
> have one), so the RCC knows you have an emergency almost instantly.
>
> Food for thought:
>
> If you turn the ELT on in flight, it will begin to GPS fix and append the
> position in the signal to the RCC, but it could be that first fix takes
> longer than you have before reaching the ground/water. If you don
=99t have
> time to turn the ELT on, it will probably activate on impact (my Kannad
> Compact certainly does), however, success then depends on continued
> integrity of the coax cable between the ELT and its antenna, which may be
> vulnerable to crash damage in your particular installation (perhaps light
ly
> retained 'service loops' would be wise). Pre-loading the ELT with aircra
ft
> GPS position buys you some time to get your position off to the RCC on th
e
> way down (if you activate the ELT), but either way, the ELT isn=99t
much use
> if the aircraft sinks underwater, in which case you would want to be
> floating around with a separate GPS PLB attached to you.
>
> My decision was to install an automatic ELT with in-built GPS (non
> aircraft integrated) that I intend to activate immediately in an
> emergency. If the ELT is damaged, subsequently fails or I have to swim o
ut
> of the cockpit, I also have a PLB attached to myself. Militaries the wor
ld
> over do this too (in both ejection seat and non-ejection seat aircraft).
>
> V/R Stu
>
>
> > On 28 Feb 2017, at 12:48, C&K <yellowduckduo@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > A couple of years ago my choice came down to a kannad that does not
> need an external antenna but does take several minutes to locate its gps
> position
> > or
> > the Ack that receives gps location from my portable nav gps and aircraf
t
> power whenever my master switch is on, and can therefore instantly transm
it
> that gps position without taking minutes to locate the gps position when
> activated.
> >
> > The satelites should get a rough triangulated position from the kannad
> immediately but not a precise gps position. OTOH loss of an external
> antenna on competing ELT's is a significant concern. I don't know how muc
h
> of this still applies to the current units.
> >
> > Ken
> >
> > On 27/02/2017 6:55 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
> >> Folks,
> >>
> >> Do you have any thoughts about the Kannad Integrat ELT? It is several
> hundred dollars less expensive than the competition.
> >> https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/kannadintegraeasy.php
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> -- Art Z.
> >>
> >> --
> >> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
> >>
> >> /"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself,
> what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Kannad Integra ELT |
Short answer, yes.
However, in the US (I don't know Canadian specifics) even the 1st
generation, circa 1973 ELTs are legal to meet the requirement if they
were installed prior to a specified date. 2nd generation 121.5 ELTs are
required for new installations. 406 units are not required, no upgrade
requirement forecast. It is all up to the aircraft owner what they want
and are willing to pay.
One overriding consideration is that a large portion of the US fleet
must install ADS-B by 2020. It will provide an automatic trace of the
aircraft for all but the first and last few hundred feet above the
ground, depending on proximity to ground receivers. After spending $3000
and up for that equipment, owners may be reluctant to pay another $1000
for a 406 ELT and installation.
On 2/28/2017 4:27 AM, William Daniell wrote:
> Are ELT obligatory in the usa and canada?
> Will
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Kannad Integra ELT |
What are your requirements, over here (Europe) we carry these:
https://www.flightstore.co.uk/pilot-supplies-c1/safety-survival-c740/plb-and-elt-beacons-c164/mcmurdo-fastfind-220-plb-with-gps-p3878?gclid=CjwKEAiA3NTFBRDKheuO6IG43VQSJAA74F77PECVW8N0D_uBN-h8pwWywiltaxiQikL1P9fY62EjfBoC-3Hw_wcB
John
Sent from my iPad
----x--O--x----
> On 28 Feb 2017, at 01:31 pm, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Kannad Integra ELT |
Thanks Stu
I definitely overstated about triangulation. I concluded that the
benefit of a 406 without immediate gps position was mostly identifying
what aircraft was involved which contributes a lot. In theory if the
alert with an aircraft ID gets out with a 406, coordinating with a
flight plan etc. can quickly locate a 'very' general position which has
some value especially for relatively common landing and takeoff incidents.
Will - I'm not up to date on all the current ELT regs and
interpolations but yes ELT's are mandatory in Canada. There are still
121.5 units in service and also aircraft flying with the units removed
for annual certifications though.
Ken
On 28/02/2017 6:27 AM, William Daniell wrote:
> Are ELT obligatory in the usa and canada?
> Will
>
> On Feb 28, 2017 05:59, "Stuart Hutchison"
> <stuart@stuarthutchison.com.au <mailto:stuart@stuarthutchison.com.au>>
> wrote:
>
> <stuart@stuarthutchison.com.au <mailto:stuart@stuarthutchison.com.au>>
>
> Hey Ken,
>
> Theres an important safety point to clarify.
>
> The RCC will know that you (specifically you) are experiencing an
> emergency almost immediately after a serviceable 406 ELT
> activation, but without a GPS position they cant know where you
> are because the satellites can't fix "a rough triangulated
> position" in quick time. To fix non-GPS ELTs, a range of
> multi-role Low Earth Orbit (LEO) satellites (such as NOAA
> satellites with a COSPAS/SARSAT payload) track a network of
> orbital paths over the Earth (seemingly straight-line to a
> ground-based observer). These satellites receive and triangulate
> ELT/PLB/EPIRB fixes sent on 406.025 MHz, but the satellite cant
> tell which side you are on, so one satellite pass produces both a
> true and a false Doppler fix on opposite sides of track. Unless
> one fix is wildly improbable, first responders will often wait for
> a second, corroborating fix to resolve the ambiguity. Coverage is
> probably more saturated over the USA than here in Aus, but it can
> still take hours to resolve the ambiguity!
> with a second LEO satellite pass on a different track. The
> accuracy of the Doppler fix depends on the stability of the ELT
> transmission frequency, which is why the old 121.5 / 243.0 MHz
> satellite receiver component was decommissioned over a decade ago
> (and that swept-tone ELT signals were generic and not unique to a
> particular platform, plus there was a 95% false alarm rate). For
> example, one of our old C-130H ELTs ejected from the tail in a
> known location and it took the LEO satellite system 9.5 hours to
> Doppler fix the initial location. Admittedly that was 121.5 /
> 243.0 MHz with poor frequency stability, but its the same LEO
> satellite network Doppler fixing our modern 406.025MHz signals.
> ELTs are still required to have 121.5 MHZ (and perhaps 243.0 MHz
> for military) as a homing signal for the final rescue itself, but
> this is why GPS is so important.
>
> Once activated, most modern GPSs will fix themselves in seconds
> (up to less than a few minutes depending on almanac download
> status, which happens via the GPS satellites) and then append the
> fix position in the 'long message' format to the Rescue
> Coordination Centre (RCC) via a GEO-stationary satellite (orbiting
> at the same rate the Earth rotates in space, so essentially
> stationary overhead each continent). In this way an accurate GPS
> position is simply bounced' off the GEO satellite to the RCC
> rather than waiting for passing LEO satellites to Doppler fix.
> Before the first GPS fix is achieved the ELT will nevertheless
> relay your unique 15 digit HEXID to the RCC (which, BTW, can be
> programmed to incorporate the 24-bit address code assigned to the
> aircrafts ADS-B transponder if you have one), so the RCC knows
> you have an emergency almost instantly.
>
> Food for thought:
>
> If you turn the ELT on in flight, it will begin to GPS fix and
> append the position in the signal to the RCC, but it could be that
> first fix takes longer than you have before reaching the
> ground/water. If you dont have time to turn the ELT on, it will
> probably activate on impact (my Kannad Compact certainly does),
> however, success then depends on continued integrity of the coax
> cable between the ELT and its antenna, which may be vulnerable to
> crash damage in your particular installation (perhaps lightly
> retained 'service loops' would be wise). Pre-loading the ELT with
> aircraft GPS position buys you some time to get your position off
> to the RCC on the way down (if you activate the ELT), but either
> way, the ELT isnt much use if the aircraft sinks underwater, in
> which case you would want to be floating around with a separate
> GPS PLB attached to you.
>
> My decision was to install an automatic ELT with in-built GPS (non
> aircraft integrated) that I intend to activate immediately in an
> emergency. If the ELT is damaged, subsequently fails or I have to
> swim out of the cockpit, I also have a PLB attached to myself.
> Militaries the world over do this too (in both ejection seat and
> non-ejection seat aircraft).
>
> V/R Stu
>
>
> > On 28 Feb 2017, at 12:48, C&K <yellowduckduo@gmail.com
> <mailto:yellowduckduo@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> <yellowduckduo@gmail.com <mailto:yellowduckduo@gmail.com>>
> >
> > A couple of years ago my choice came down to a kannad that does
> not need an external antenna but does take several minutes to
> locate its gps position
> > or
> > the Ack that receives gps location from my portable nav gps and
> aircraft power whenever my master switch is on, and can therefore
> instantly transmit that gps position without taking minutes to
> locate the gps position when activated.
> >
> > The satelites should get a rough triangulated position from the
> kannad immediately but not a precise gps position. OTOH loss of an
> external antenna on competing ELT's is a significant concern. I
> don't know how much of this still applies to the current units.
> >
> > Ken
> >
> > On 27/02/2017 6:55 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
> >> Folks,
> >>
> >> Do you have any thoughts about the Kannad Integrat ELT? It is
> several hundred dollars less expensive than the competition.
> >>
> https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/kannadintegraeasy.php
> <https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/kannadintegraeasy.php>
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> -- Art Z.
> >>
> >> --
> >> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ <https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/>
> >>
> >> /"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for
> myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ===================================
> -
> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> ===================================
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> WIKI -
> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> ===================================
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Kannad Integra ELT |
Except in limited circumstances, in Canada an ELT (either 121.5MHz or 406MHz) is
required, yes.
On 28Feb2017, at 6:27 AM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> wrote:
Are ELT obligatory in the usa and canada?
Will
On Feb 28, 2017 05:59, "Stuart Hutchison" <stuart@stuarthutchison.com.au> wrote:
Hey Ken,
Theres an important safety point to clarify.
The RCC will know that you (specifically you) are experiencing an emergency almost
immediately after a serviceable 406 ELT activation, but without a GPS position
they cant know where you are because the satellites can't fix "a rough triangulated
position" in quick time. To fix non-GPS ELTs, a range of multi-role
Low Earth Orbit (LEO) satellites (such as NOAA satellites with a COSPAS/SARSAT
payload) track a network of orbital paths over the Earth (seemingly straight-line
to a ground-based observer). These satellites receive and triangulate
ELT/PLB/EPIRB fixes sent on 406.025 MHz, but the satellite cant tell which side
you are on, so one satellite pass produces both a true and a false Doppler fix
on opposite sides of track. Unless one fix is wildly improbable, first responders
will often wait for a second, corroborating fix to resolve the ambiguity.
Coverage is probably more saturated over the USA than here in Aus, but it
can still take hours to resolve the ambiguity!
with a second LEO satellite pass on a different track. The accuracy of the Doppler
fix depends on the stability of the ELT transmission frequency, which is
why the old 121.5 / 243.0 MHz satellite receiver component was decommissioned
over a decade ago (and that swept-tone ELT signals were generic and not unique
to a particular platform, plus there was a 95% false alarm rate). For example,
one of our old C-130H ELTs ejected from the tail in a known location and
it took the LEO satellite system 9.5 hours to Doppler fix the initial location.
Admittedly that was 121.5 / 243.0 MHz with poor frequency stability, but its
the same LEO satellite network Doppler fixing our modern 406.025MHz signals.
ELTs are still required to have 121.5 MHZ (and perhaps 243.0 MHz for military)
as a homing signal for the final rescue itself, but this is why GPS is so important.
Once activated, most modern GPSs will fix themselves in seconds (up to less than
a few minutes depending on almanac download status, which happens via the GPS
satellites) and then append the fix position in the 'long message' format to
the Rescue Coordination Centre (RCC) via a GEO-stationary satellite (orbiting
at the same rate the Earth rotates in space, so essentially stationary overhead
each continent). In this way an accurate GPS position is simply bounced' off
the GEO satellite to the RCC rather than waiting for passing LEO satellites
to Doppler fix. Before the first GPS fix is achieved the ELT will nevertheless
relay your unique 15 digit HEXID to the RCC (which, BTW, can be programmed to
incorporate the 24-bit address code assigned to the aircrafts ADS-B transponder
if you have one), so the RCC knows you have an emergency almost instantly.
Food for thought:
If you turn the ELT on in flight, it will begin to GPS fix and append the position
in the signal to the RCC, but it could be that first fix takes longer than
you have before reaching the ground/water. If you dont have time to turn the
ELT on, it will probably activate on impact (my Kannad Compact certainly does),
however, success then depends on continued integrity of the coax cable between
the ELT and its antenna, which may be vulnerable to crash damage in your particular
installation (perhaps lightly retained 'service loops' would be wise).
Pre-loading the ELT with aircraft GPS position buys you some time to get your
position off to the RCC on the way down (if you activate the ELT), but either
way, the ELT isnt much use if the aircraft sinks underwater, in which case
you would want to be floating around with a separate GPS PLB attached to you.
My decision was to install an automatic ELT with in-built GPS (non aircraft integrated)
that I intend to activate immediately in an emergency. If the ELT is
damaged, subsequently fails or I have to swim out of the cockpit, I also have
a PLB attached to myself. Militaries the world over do this too (in both ejection
seat and non-ejection seat aircraft).
V/R Stu
> On 28 Feb 2017, at 12:48, C&K <yellowduckduo@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> A couple of years ago my choice came down to a kannad that does not need an
external antenna but does take several minutes to locate its gps position
> or
> the Ack that receives gps location from my portable nav gps and aircraft power
whenever my master switch is on, and can therefore instantly transmit that gps
position without taking minutes to locate the gps position when activated.
>
> The satelites should get a rough triangulated position from the kannad immediately
but not a precise gps position. OTOH loss of an external antenna on competing
ELT's is a significant concern. I don't know how much of this still applies
to the current units.
>
> Ken
>
> On 27/02/2017 6:55 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
>> Folks,
>>
>> Do you have any thoughts about the Kannad Integrat ELT? It is several hundred
dollars less expensive than the competition.
>> https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/kannadintegraeasy.php
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -- Art Z.
>>
>> --
>> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>>
>> /"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am
I? And if not now, when?" Hillel/
>
>
===================================
-
Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
===================================
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===================================
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
===================================
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Kannad Integra ELT |
Correct. For the U.S., ELT requirements are detailed in FAR 91.207.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/jhl8hfm
The exception that's most commonly applicable to the Experimental aircraft c
ommunity is that single seat aircraft are exempt. The wisdom of flying alon
e without an emergency transmitter of some kind is another question...
Eric
> On Feb 28, 2017, at 5:31 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
> Short answer, yes.
> However, in the US (I don't know Canadian specifics) even the 1st generati
on, circa 1973 ELTs are legal to meet the requirement if they were installed
prior to a specified date. 2nd generation 121.5 ELTs are required for new i
nstallations. 406 units are not required, no upgrade requirement forecast. I
t is all up to the aircraft owner what they want and are willing to pay.
> One overriding consideration is that a large portion of the US fleet must i
nstall ADS-B by 2020. It will provide an automatic trace of the aircraft for
all but the first and last few hundred feet above the ground, depending on p
roximity to ground receivers. After spending $3000 and up for that equipment
, owners may be reluctant to pay another $1000 for a 406 ELT and installatio
n.
>
>> On 2/28/2017 4:27 AM, William Daniell wrote:
>> Are ELT obligatory in the usa and canada?
>> Will
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 3PDT switch swap for relay? |
Wade,
There are 3 diodes in your drawing that appear to have their anodes connected together,
even though there is no dot. Are they supposed to be connected? If
so, how can current flow through back to back diodes? I understand that the diode
pointing up is for arc suppression.
How can the AUTO relay be energized when the negative side of its coil is connected
to ground through its own normally open contacts?
What am I missing?
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466757#466757
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Kannad Integra ELT |
Stu,
I do always carry a PLB with me.
Why don't you buy the NEMA adapter so that your Kannad always knows your
GPS position. That way, when you hit that button while going down, SAR will
know exactly where you are. I don't particularly like spending another $342
but it's worth it to me. Alaska is big and it's hard to find lost
airplanes. Many are never found.
Ken
On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 1:50 AM, Stuart Hutchison <
stuart@stuarthutchison.com.au> wrote:
> stuart@stuarthutchison.com.au>
>
> Hey Ken,
>
> There=99s an important safety point to clarify.
>
> The RCC will know that you (specifically you) are experiencing an
> emergency almost immediately after a serviceable 406 ELT activation, but
> without a GPS position they can=99t know where you are because the
satellites
> can't fix "a rough triangulated position" in quick time. To fix non-GPS
> ELTs, a range of multi-role Low Earth Orbit (LEO) satellites (such as NOA
A
> satellites with a COSPAS/SARSAT payload) track a network of orbital paths
> over the Earth (seemingly straight-line to a ground-based observer). The
se
> satellites receive and triangulate ELT/PLB/EPIRB fixes sent on 406.025 MH
z,
> but the satellite can=99t tell which side you are on, so one satell
ite pass
> produces both a true and a false Doppler fix on opposite sides of track.
> Unless one fix is wildly improbable, first responders will often wait for
a
> second, corroborating fix to resolve the ambiguity. Coverage is probably
> more saturated over the USA than here in Aus, but it can still take hours
> to resolve the ambiguity!
> with a second LEO satellite pass on a different track. The accuracy of
> the Doppler fix depends on the stability of the ELT transmission frequenc
y,
> which is why the old 121.5 / 243.0 MHz satellite receiver component was
> decommissioned over a decade ago (and that swept-tone ELT signals were
> generic and not unique to a particular platform, plus there was a 95% fal
se
> alarm rate). For example, one of our old C-130H ELTs ejected from the ta
il
> in a known location and it took the LEO satellite system 9.5 hours to
> Doppler fix the initial location. Admittedly that was 121.5 / 243.0 MHz
> with poor frequency stability, but its the same LEO satellite network
> Doppler fixing our modern 406.025MHz signals. ELTs are still required to
> have 121.5 MHZ (and perhaps 243.0 MHz for military) as a homing signal fo
r
> the final rescue itself, but this is why GPS is so important.
>
> Once activated, most modern GPSs will fix themselves in seconds (up to
> less than a few minutes depending on almanac download status, which happe
ns
> via the GPS satellites) and then append the fix position in the 'long
> message' format to the Rescue Coordination Centre (RCC) via a
> GEO-stationary satellite (orbiting at the same rate the Earth rotates in
> space, so essentially stationary overhead each continent). In this way an
> accurate GPS position is simply =98bounced' off the GEO satellite t
o the RCC
> rather than waiting for passing LEO satellites to Doppler fix. Before th
e
> first GPS fix is achieved the ELT will nevertheless relay your unique 15
> digit HEXID to the RCC (which, BTW, can be programmed to incorporate the
> 24-bit address code assigned to the aircraft=99s ADS-B transponder
if you
> have one), so the RCC knows you have an emergency almost instantly.
>
> Food for thought:
>
> If you turn the ELT on in flight, it will begin to GPS fix and append the
> position in the signal to the RCC, but it could be that first fix takes
> longer than you have before reaching the ground/water. If you don
=99t have
> time to turn the ELT on, it will probably activate on impact (my Kannad
> Compact certainly does), however, success then depends on continued
> integrity of the coax cable between the ELT and its antenna, which may be
> vulnerable to crash damage in your particular installation (perhaps light
ly
> retained 'service loops' would be wise). Pre-loading the ELT with aircra
ft
> GPS position buys you some time to get your position off to the RCC on th
e
> way down (if you activate the ELT), but either way, the ELT isn=99t
much use
> if the aircraft sinks underwater, in which case you would want to be
> floating around with a separate GPS PLB attached to you.
>
> My decision was to install an automatic ELT with in-built GPS (non
> aircraft integrated) that I intend to activate immediately in an
> emergency. If the ELT is damaged, subsequently fails or I have to swim o
ut
> of the cockpit, I also have a PLB attached to myself. Militaries the wor
ld
> over do this too (in both ejection seat and non-ejection seat aircraft).
>
> V/R Stu
>
>
> > On 28 Feb 2017, at 12:48, C&K <yellowduckduo@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > A couple of years ago my choice came down to a kannad that does not
> need an external antenna but does take several minutes to locate its gps
> position
> > or
> > the Ack that receives gps location from my portable nav gps and aircraf
t
> power whenever my master switch is on, and can therefore instantly transm
it
> that gps position without taking minutes to locate the gps position when
> activated.
> >
> > The satelites should get a rough triangulated position from the kannad
> immediately but not a precise gps position. OTOH loss of an external
> antenna on competing ELT's is a significant concern. I don't know how muc
h
> of this still applies to the current units.
> >
> > Ken
> >
> > On 27/02/2017 6:55 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
> >> Folks,
> >>
> >> Do you have any thoughts about the Kannad Integrat ELT? It is several
> hundred dollars less expensive than the competition.
> >> https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/kannadintegraeasy.php
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> -- Art Z.
> >>
> >> --
> >> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
> >>
> >> /"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself,
> what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 3PDT switch swap for relay? |
Never mind. I realize that is a holding circuit as long as the switch is in the
UP position. But there is a connecting dot missing, right?
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466759#466759
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