Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:30 AM - Re: Internal Balun Antenna Lead (user9253)
2. 06:24 AM - Always check the ground, yet again (Richard Girard)
3. 08:19 AM - Re: Always check the ground, yet again (Alec Myers)
4. 08:44 AM - Re: Always check the ground, yet again (Eric Page)
5. 12:54 PM - Mounting a VOR Antenna (Art Zemon)
6. 01:21 PM - Re: Mounting a VOR Antenna (Sebastien)
7. 01:21 PM - Re: Mounting a VOR Antenna (Sebastien)
8. 01:26 PM - Re: Mounting a VOR Antenna (Charlie England)
9. 01:52 PM - Re: Mounting a VOR Antenna (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 02:13 PM - Re: Mounting a VOR Antenna (bobsv35b@aol.com)
11. 03:59 PM - Re: Mounting a VOR Antenna (Art Zemon)
12. 04:25 PM - Re: Mounting a VOR Antenna (Kelly McMullen)
13. 04:48 PM - Re: Mounting a VOR Antenna (bobsv35b@aol.com)
14. 05:05 PM - Re: Mounting a VOR Antenna (bobsv35b@aol.com)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Internal Balun Antenna Lead |
Read this article:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/BALUN/Balun_Fabrication.html
I would go fly the plane without a balun. If you are not satisfied with the reception,
then make and install balun. But why try to make it perfect when it
is already good enough?
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466798#466798
Message 2
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Subject: | Always check the ground, yet again |
We use flashlights on a daily basis and our battery bill is pretty high
because of it. We're making the leap to rechargeables but our first foray
brought the old lesson about check the grounds first into play as I say,
yet again.
I would say the flashlight maker's name but I think the problem will be
endemic to all that use the 18650 lithium ion battery.
Anyway, the flashlight came in the mail, I put the battery in the charger
and waited for the LED to turn green. Put battery in flashlight, hit the
switch, nothing. Fiddled with it awhile, unscrewed cap/switch and put
battery back in charger for another cycle. Again, no light. I unscrewed the
end again only this time I noticed a white powder coming off the threads.
Examination of the threads with a magnifying glass revealed that the
threads were corroded and a vigorous brushing with a stainless steel brush
fixed the symptom but not the problem.
I compared the new flashlight with a AAA battery powered LED flashlight.
The threads on the 18650 powered flashlight are bare aluminum. They have to
be to complete the ground path for the circuit. The AAA flashlight has a
plastic case that connects up the four batteries and has the ground path
built into it. Two spring loaded pins on the forward end of the case
connect to power and ground rings on a circuit board at the LED end of the
flashlight. The threads are not part of the ground path.
I briefly considered alodining the threads when good sense hit me with the
realization that I do not need another project. A few key strokes and I was
printing out a return label.
So it seems to me that pretty much all the rechargeable aluminum
flashlights that have no other ground path than *unprotected* threads are
going to have this problem sooner or later. I was lucky in that the failure
was immediate. If the manufacturer had put a 1/2 penny desiccant pack in
the case I would probably have thrown it away in a year or two and been
stuck with the bill.
Rick Girard
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Always check the ground, yet again |
I have several flashlights as you describe, both $5 affairs from Banggood an
d some very expensive ones - going back 5 years. No corrosion on any threads
.
I think you got unlucky!
> On Mar 2, 2017, at 9:22 AM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> We use flashlights on a daily basis and our battery bill is pretty high be
cause of it. We're making the leap to rechargeables but our first foray brou
ght the old lesson about check the grounds first into play as I say, yet aga
in.
> I would say the flashlight maker's name but I think the problem will be en
demic to all that use the 18650 lithium ion battery.
> Anyway, the flashlight came in the mail, I put the battery in the charger a
nd waited for the LED to turn green. Put battery in flashlight, hit the swit
ch, nothing. Fiddled with it awhile, unscrewed cap/switch and put battery ba
ck in charger for another cycle. Again, no light. I unscrewed the end again o
nly this time I noticed a white powder coming off the threads. Examination o
f the threads with a magnifying glass revealed that the threads were corrode
d and a vigorous brushing with a stainless steel brush fixed the symptom but
not the problem.
> I compared the new flashlight with a AAA battery powered LED flashlight. T
he threads on the 18650 powered flashlight are bare aluminum. They have to b
e to complete the ground path for the circuit. The AAA flashlight has a plas
tic case that connects up the four batteries and has the ground path built i
nto it. Two spring loaded pins on the forward end of the case connect to pow
er and ground rings on a circuit board at the LED end of the flashlight. The
threads are not part of the ground path.
> I briefly considered alodining the threads when good sense hit me with the
realization that I do not need another project. A few key strokes and I was
printing out a return label.
> So it seems to me that pretty much all the rechargeable aluminum flashligh
ts that have no other ground path than unprotected threads are going to have
this problem sooner or later. I was lucky in that the failure was immediate
. If the manufacturer had put a 1/2 penny desiccant pack in the case I would
probably have thrown it away in a year or two and been stuck with the bill.
>
> Rick Girard
>
>
> --
> =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Always check the ground, yet again |
What a strange experience. I have an aluminum 18650-powered flashlight in m
y flight bag that I sourced from one of the offshore discount electronics em
poria. It has a clear anodized finish and no apparent ground path from tail
cap to business end except through the threads. It has been illuminating m
y nighttime preflight walk-arounds for several years now without fail. Very
bright, very reliable, very cheap.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/her9d7w
Eric
Message 5
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Subject: | Mounting a VOR Antenna |
Folks,
UPS brought my VOR antenna yesterday, a RAMI AV-532
<http://www.rami.com/product/av-532/>. I have a couple of questions about
mounting it. The installation instructions are "terse," to say the least.
Am I right in assuming that neither one of the two studs should come in
contact with the metal fuselage?
How do I seal the antenna to the fuselage so that it is weather proof?
Squirt some RTV under it before bolting it on and then run a bead of RTV
around the outside edge? Just a bead around the outside? Something entirely
different?
Thanks,
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Mounting a VOR Antenna |
For sealing I used Alex Plus
http://www.dap.com/dap-products-ph/alex-plus-acrylic-latex-caulk-plus-silicone/
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 12:49 PM, Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
> Folks,
>
> UPS brought my VOR antenna yesterday, a RAMI AV-532
> <http://www.rami.com/product/av-532/>. I have a couple of questions about
> mounting it. The installation instructions are "terse," to say the least.
>
> Am I right in assuming that neither one of the two studs should come in
> contact with the metal fuselage?
>
> How do I seal the antenna to the fuselage so that it is weather proof?
> Squirt some RTV under it before bolting it on and then run a bead of RTV
> around the outside edge? Just a bead around the outside? Something entirely
> different?
>
> Thanks,
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Mounting a VOR Antenna |
Whoops, didn't read the whole question :(. Bead around the outside edge
after installation.
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Sebastien <cluros@gmail.com> wrote:
> For sealing I used Alex Plus
>
> http://www.dap.com/dap-products-ph/alex-plus-acrylic-
> latex-caulk-plus-silicone/
>
> On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 12:49 PM, Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
>
>> Folks,
>>
>> UPS brought my VOR antenna yesterday, a RAMI AV-532
>> <http://www.rami.com/product/av-532/>. I have a couple of questions
>> about mounting it. The installation instructions are "terse," to say the
>> least.
>>
>> Am I right in assuming that neither one of the two studs should come in
>> contact with the metal fuselage?
>>
>> How do I seal the antenna to the fuselage so that it is weather proof?
>> Squirt some RTV under it before bolting it on and then run a bead of RTV
>> around the outside edge? Just a bead around the outside? Something entirely
>> different?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -- Art Z.
>>
>> --
>> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>>
>> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself,
>> what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>>
>
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Mounting a VOR Antenna |
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 2:49 PM, Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
> Folks,
>
> UPS brought my VOR antenna yesterday, a RAMI AV-532
> <http://www.rami.com/product/av-532/>. I have a couple of questions about
> mounting it. The installation instructions are "terse," to say the least.
>
> Am I right in assuming that neither one of the two studs should come in
> contact with the metal fuselage?
>
> How do I seal the antenna to the fuselage so that it is weather proof?
> Squirt some RTV under it before bolting it on and then run a bead of RTV
> around the outside edge? Just a bead around the outside? Something entirely
> different?
>
> Thanks,
> -- Art Z.
>
> According to the 2nd image on that site, there are 2 mounting holes; those
shouldn't have any issue with their screws contacting the a/c structure.
You can use RTV to seal it to the fuselage, but be sure you get 'sensor
safe' RTV for that use. Typical RTV releases acetic acid, which is
corrosive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTV_silicone
I couldn't find the installation docs on the site, but it's logical that
the pair of inner terminals would connect to the balun, and neither of
those should contact the a/c structure. Note that since it's already a 50
ohm antenna, all the balun does is convert the transmission line from
balanced, which is what the 'cat whisker' VOR antenna is, to 'unbalanced',
which would be your coax that runs to the receiver. I think Joe pointed out
that you can just hook the coax center lead to one terminal & the shield to
the other, & go fly. It'll probably work perfectly, until some day you take
it to a real antenna range and hook a multi-kilobuck RF analyzer to it.
Then it won't work right, because that multi-kilobuck tester said it
doesn't.
Charlie
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Mounting a VOR Antenna |
> I think Joe pointed out that you can just hook the coax center
> lead to one terminal & the shield to the other, & go fly. It'll
> probably work perfectly . . .
Cessna flirted with baluns on their vertical fin cat-whiskers
but the experiment didn't last long. I think for the duration of
my tenure there (~5 years) they simply connected the coax shield
and center to the two whiskers.
>. . . until some day you take it to a real antenna range and hook a
>multi-kilobuck RF analyzer to it. Then it won't work right, because
>that multi-kilobuck tester said it doesn't . . .
The balun shown at http://tinyurl.com/yytxwd3 is easy to make
and would keep the $kilo$ tester happy.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Mounting a VOR Antenna |
Good Afternoon Art,
I have not been following this discussion, but it appears to me that you have
an antenna that was designed to be mounted in a vertical fn or on the belly of
an airplane very near the aft point of the fuselage. Some years ago, those wre
used at the rear of Bonanzas just barely ahead of the aft bulkhead.
In any case, if it is not mounted quite far away from a flat portion of the fuselage,
it wll have lousy reception.
On the other side of that question, at the range (distance) from the station we
tend to be using such an antennna, a wet noodle would probably work OK. Enroute
most of us use a GPS to figure out where we are. If we are shooting a VOR
approach or an approach using a localizer, we are so close to the transmitting
antenna , it would be hard NOT to get an adequate signal.
What am I missing?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Art Zemon <art@zemon.name>
Sent: Thu, Mar 2, 2017 2:54 pm
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Mounting a VOR Antenna
Folks,
UPS brought my VOR antenna yesterday, a RAMI AV-532. I have a couple of questions
about mounting it. The installation instructions are "terse," to say the least.
Am I right in assuming that neither one of the two studs should come in contact
with the metal fuselage?
How do I seal the antenna to the fuselage so that it is weather proof? Squirt some
RTV under it before bolting it on and then run a bead of RTV around the outside
edge? Just a bead around the outside? Something entirely different?
Thanks,
-- Art Z.
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Mounting a VOR Antenna |
Thanks, everybody. I'm glad that I didn't spend a lot of money on a cable
with an internal balun. I will apply a bead of "sensor safe" RTV to the VOR
antenna after mounting it and expect to fly high 'n' dry.
Cheers,
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Mounting a VOR Antenna |
Old Bob,
You are probably correct for "most" VOR/Loc approaches, but some, rather
than being within 10-12 mi of the transmitter, go more than 20 nm from
the VOR and would probably do a lot of hunting with the needle at that
range. While we do use GPS a lot, a lot of aircraft do not have a
certified GPS in the panel, so the VOR is the "legal" nav method, and
some airways still have 100 or slightly more nm from VOR at the
changeover point. A good antenna with good install will receive that
100nm no sweat at say 10,000 ft.
On 3/2/2017 3:09 PM, bobsv35b@aol.com wrote:
> Good Afternoon Art,
>
> I have not been following this discussion, but it appears to me that
> you have an antenna that was designed to be mounted in a vertical fn or
> on the belly of an airplane very near the aft point of the fuselage.
> Some years ago, those wre used at the rear of Bonanzas just barely ahead
> of the aft bulkhead.
>
> In any case, if it is not mounted quite far away from a flat portion of
> the fuselage, it wll have lousy reception.
>
> On the other side of that question, at the range (distance) from the
> station we tend to be using such an antennna, a wet noodle would
> probably work OK. Enroute most of us use a GPS to figure out where we
> are. If we are shooting a VOR approach or an approach using a localizer,
> we are so close to the transmitting antenna , it would be hard NOT to
> get an adequate signal.
>
> What am I missing?
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Art Zemon <art@zemon.name>
> To: aeroelectric-list <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thu, Mar 2, 2017 2:54 pm
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Mounting a VOR Antenna
>
> Folks,
>
> UPS brought my VOR antenna yesterday, a RAMI AV-532
> <http://www.rami.com/product/av-532/>. I have a couple of questions
> about mounting it. The installation instructions are "terse," to say the
> least.
>
> Am I right in assuming that neither one of the two studs should come in
> contact with the metal fuselage?
>
> How do I seal the antenna to the fuselage so that it is weather proof?
> Squirt some RTV under it before bolting it on and then run a bead of RTV
> around the outside edge? Just a bead around the outside? Something
> entirely different?
>
> Thanks,
> -- Art Z.
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Mounting a VOR Antenna |
Good Evening Kelly,
My point, not well made, is that the type of antenna he is using will not have
a good reception pattern mounted close to the ground plane of the airframe. However.
it will work adequately close to the VOR or Localizer transmitter. I still
like the blades on the tail, but they are expensive.
The antenna in question will work quite well mounted on the fixed vertical tail
feather of a Tri Pacer!! <G>
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
Sent: Thu, Mar 2, 2017 6:27 pm
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Mounting a VOR Antenna
Old Bob,
You are probably correct for "most" VOR/Loc approaches, but some, rather
than being within 10-12 mi of the transmitter, go more than 20 nm from
the VOR and would probably do a lot of hunting with the needle at that
range. While we do use GPS a lot, a lot of aircraft do not have a
certified GPS in the panel, so the VOR is the "legal" nav method, and
some airways still have 100 or slightly more nm from VOR at the
changeover point. A good antenna with good install will receive that
100nm no sweat at say 10,000 ft.
On 3/2/2017 3:09 PM, bobsv35b@aol.com wrote:
> Good Afternoon Art,
>
> I have not been following this discussion, but it appears to me that
> you have an antenna that was designed to be mounted in a vertical fn or
> on the belly of an airplane very near the aft point of the fuselage.
> Some years ago, those wre used at the rear of Bonanzas just barely ahead
> of the aft bulkhead.
>
> In any case, if it is not mounted quite far away from a flat portion of
> the fuselage, it wll have lousy reception.
>
> On the other side of that question, at the range (distance) from the
> station we tend to be using such an antennna, a wet noodle would
> probably work OK. Enroute most of us use a GPS to figure out where we
> are. If we are shooting a VOR approach or an approach using a localizer,
> we are so close to the transmitting antenna , it would be hard NOT to
> get an adequate signal.
>
> What am I missing?
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Art Zemon <art@zemon.name>
> To: aeroelectric-list <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thu, Mar 2, 2017 2:54 pm
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Mounting a VOR Antenna
>
> Folks,
>
> UPS brought my VOR antenna yesterday, a RAMI AV-532
> <http://www.rami.com/product/av-532/>. I have a couple of questions
> about mounting it. The installation instructions are "terse," to say the
> least.
>
> Am I right in assuming that neither one of the two studs should come in
> contact with the metal fuselage?
>
> How do I seal the antenna to the fuselage so that it is weather proof?
> Squirt some RTV under it before bolting it on and then run a bead of RTV
> around the outside edge? Just a bead around the outside? Something
> entirely different?
>
> Thanks,
> -- Art Z.
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Mounting a VOR Antenna |
Good Evening Kelly
If I may make another comment, I think you will find that most low altitude VOR
airways have the VORs less tham one hundred miles apart.
Back in the nineties, I had to do some testing to get some blade antennas approved.
The FEDs only asked that I check the reception pattern 50 mles from the station
at ten thousand feet or less.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: bobsv35b <bobsv35b@aol.com>
Sent: Thu, Mar 2, 2017 6:46 pm
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Mounting a VOR Antenna
Good Evening Kelly,
My point, not well made, is that the type of antenna he is using will not have
a good reception pattern mounted close to the ground plane of the airframe. However.
it will work adequately close to the VOR or Localizer transmitter. I still
like the blades on the tail, but they are expensive.
The antenna in question will work quite well mounted on the fixed vertical tail
feather of a Tri Pacer!! <G>
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
Sent: Thu, Mar 2, 2017 6:27 pm
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Mounting a VOR Antenna
Old Bob,
You are probably correct for "most" VOR/Loc approaches, but some, rather
than being within 10-12 mi of the transmitter, go more than 20 nm from
the VOR and would probably do a lot of hunting with the needle at that
range. While we do use GPS a lot, a lot of aircraft do not have a
certified GPS in the panel, so the VOR is the "legal" nav method, and
some airways still have 100 or slightly more nm from VOR at the
changeover point. A good antenna with good install will receive that
100nm no sweat at say 10,000 ft.
On 3/2/2017 3:09 PM, bobsv35b@aol.com wrote:
> Good Afternoon Art,
>
> I have not been following this discussion, but it appears to me that
> you have an antenna that was designed to be mounted in a vertical fn or
> on the belly of an airplane very near the aft point of the fuselage.
> Some years ago, those wre used at the rear of Bonanzas just barely ahead
> of the aft bulkhead.
>
> In any case, if it is not mounted quite far away from a flat portion of
> the fuselage, it wll have lousy reception.
>
> On the other side of that question, at the range (distance) from the
> station we tend to be using such an antennna, a wet noodle would
> probably work OK. Enroute most of us use a GPS to figure out where we
> are. If we are shooting a VOR approach or an approach using a localizer,
> we are so close to the transmitting antenna , it would be hard NOT to
> get an adequate signal.
>
> What am I missing?
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Art Zemon <art@zemon.name>
> To: aeroelectric-list <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thu, Mar 2, 2017 2:54 pm
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Mounting a VOR Antenna
>
> Folks,
>
> UPS brought my VOR antenna yesterday, a RAMI AV-532
> <http://www.rami.com/product/av-532/>. I have a couple of questions
> about mounting it. The installation instructions are "terse," to say the
> least.
>
> Am I right in assuming that neither one of the two studs should come in
> contact with the metal fuselage?
>
> How do I seal the antenna to the fuselage so that it is weather proof?
> Squirt some RTV under it before bolting it on and then run a bead of RTV
> around the outside edge? Just a bead around the outside? Something
> entirely different?
>
> Thanks,
> -- Art Z.
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