---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/14/17: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:51 AM - Re: Tack vs Hobbs (donjohnston) 2. 06:06 AM - Fw: Re: King KX145 pin out, pin 10 (user9253) 3. 07:40 AM - Re: 3PDT switch swap for relay? (user9253) 4. 08:23 AM - Re: Tach vs Hobbs () 5. 09:49 AM - Re: Fw: Re: King KX145 pin out, pin 10 (rayj) 6. 11:19 AM - Re: Re: 3PDT switch swap for relay? (Gilles St-Pierre) 7. 11:33 AM - Re: 3PDT switch swap for relay? (user9253) 8. 12:25 PM - Re: Tack vs Hobbs (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 12:32 PM - Re: Tack vs Hobbs (Alec Myers) 10. 01:43 PM - Re: Tack vs Hobbs (Kent or Jackie Ashton) 11. 05:44 PM - Re: Fw: Re: King KX145 pin out, pin 10 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 05:48 PM - Re: Re: Tack vs Hobbs (bobsv35b@aol.com) 13. 07:30 PM - About those 'Copper Tops' (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 14. 09:14 PM - Re: About those 'Copper Tops' (Alec Myers) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:51:12 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Tack vs Hobbs From: "donjohnston" alec(at)alecmyers.com wrote: > Let me as the question again: when the FAA mandates usage-based inspection or maintenance (for instance, mandatory 100 hour inspections for aircraft used for instruction) - what is the time that is counted towards those 100 hours? Is it engine run time, or air time, or tach time, or some other measure? When I had a TC aircraft, every shop used tach time. Not a single maintenance facility ever looked at the hobbs meter unless they needed the total airframe hours. I can't say if there's a FAR enforcing that though and if there is, which one. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467283#467283 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:33 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fwd: Re: King KX145 pin out, pin 10 From: "user9253" There are optical character recognition (OCR) programs that will convert scanned documents into text. The size of the text file is a very small fraction of the file size of the original scanned document. The biggest advantage of a text file is that a computer can search it for certain key words. A disadvantage is that the OCR program will make errors that need to be found and corrected. > I believe it fills 5+ DVDs. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467287#467287 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:40:53 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: 3PDT switch swap for relay? From: "user9253" I converted the schematic diagram into a wiring diagram. Laser altimeter - https://www.parallax.com/product/28054 -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467291#467291 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_joe_7_202.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_joe_7_195.pdf ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:38 AM PST US From: Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Tach vs Hobbs << when the FAA mandates usage-based inspection or maintenance (for instance, mandatory 100 hour inspections for aircraft used for instruction) - what is the time that is counted towards those 100 hours? Is it engine run time, or air time, or tach time, or some other measure? >> Simple answer: the only recording device on the "required equipment" list is the tach. Hobbs meters are optional, and are used to charge rental customers for their "flight time" (which is truly bogus, because it's typically about 1.2X the actual flight time for a training flight). Because tach time was the only "guaranteed to be present" way to measure time, in the US, all "time-interval" inspections are based on tach time, including ADs with "every 100 hours" or "every 500 hours" intervals. And to the OP: please note that "tach" (with an "H") is short for "tachometer", not "tackometer"... LOL Jim Parker ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:49:32 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fwd: Re: King KX145 pin out, pin 10 From: rayj Given the number of diagrams, graphs, tables, etc, I don't think the manual is a good candidate for conversion by OCR software. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system. And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, egotism and self-interest are the traits of success. And while men admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second. -John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate (1902-1968) On 03/14/2017 08:03 AM, user9253 wrote: > > There are optical character recognition (OCR) programs that will convert scanned documents into text. The size of the text file is a very small fraction of the file size of the original scanned document. The biggest advantage of a text file is that a computer can search it for certain key words. A disadvantage is that the OCR program will make errors that need to be found and corrected. >> I believe it fills 5+ DVDs. > > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467287#467287 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:19:44 AM PST US From: Gilles St-Pierre Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: 3PDT switch swap for relay? Hello Can it be use for landing on glassy water....for float plane.. Thanks for your time Regards Gilles ________________________________ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of user9253 Sent: March 14, 2017 11:38:10 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: 3PDT switch swap for relay? I converted the schematic diagram into a wiring diagram. Laser altimeter - https://www.parallax.com/product/28054 -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467291#467291 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_joe_7_202.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_joe_7_195.pdf ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:33:46 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: 3PDT switch swap for relay? From: "user9253" > Can it be use for landing on glassy water....for float plane.. Gee, I do not know. Try calling the laser altimeter manufacturer. I have never used their product. I just drew the diagram for Wade, the original poster of this thread. I assume that you only want the altimeter feature and not the gear extend. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467298#467298 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:04 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Tack vs Hobbs At 03:32 PM 3/13/2017, you wrote: > >I wasn't suggesting that Canadian aircraft are subject to any >particular maintenance or inspection requirements. Rather, that when >they are, the relevant "run time" that has to be accounted for is >wheels-up to wheels-down. > >Let me as the question again: when the FAA mandates usage-based >inspection or maintenance (for instance, mandatory 100 hour >inspections for aircraft used for instruction) - what is the time >that is counted towards those 100 hours? Is it engine run time, or >air time, or tach time, or some other measure? Don't know what the suggestion is today but when we owned 1K1, only our revenue generating aircraft were subject to 100 hour inspections . . . by what ever means was fitted to the panel. The J-3, with no electrical system and rudimentary tach was serviced based on rental time. An old Mooney was golden using tach time. The reset of the TC fleet had hobbs meters . . . some in addition to tach time but in our neck of the world, the Hobbs was preferred both for maintenance and billing practices. It was explained to me that there was nothing magic about inspecting every 100.00 plus or minus 0.01 hours. It was only necessary that the inspections be done regularly in that general time frame. Of course, tach hours are really engine revolution counters. Hour recording tachs were spin-offs from automobile speedometers where revolutions were directly related to miles traveled. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:32:13 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Tack vs Hobbs From: Alec Myers Good to know. Someone else was kind enough to point me towards 14 CFR 1.1: "Time in service, with respect to maintenance time records, means the time from the moment anaircraft leaves the surface of the earth until it touches it at the next point of landing." On 14Mar2017, at 3:20 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: At 03:32 PM 3/13/2017, you wrote: > > I wasn't suggesting that Canadian aircraft are subject to any particular maintenance or inspection requirements. Rather, that when they are, the relevant "run time" that has to be accounted for is wheels-up to wheels-down. > > Let me as the question again: when the FAA mandates usage-based inspection or maintenance (for instance, mandatory 100 hour inspections for aircraft used for instruction) - what is the time that is counted towards those 100 hours? Is it engine run time, or air time, or tach time, or some other measure? Don't know what the suggestion is today but when we owned 1K1, only our revenue generating aircraft were subject to 100 hour inspections . . . by what ever means was fitted to the panel. The J-3, with no electrical system and rudimentary tach was serviced based on rental time. An old Mooney was golden using tach time. The reset of the TC fleet had hobbs meters . . . some in addition to tach time but in our neck of the world, the Hobbs was preferred both for maintenance and billing practices. It was explained to me that there was nothing magic about inspecting every 100.00 plus or minus 0.01 hours. It was only necessary that the inspections be done regularly in that general time frame. Of course, tach hours are really engine revolution counters. Hour recording tachs were spin-offs from automobile speedometers where revolutions were directly related to miles traveled. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:43:54 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Tack vs Hobbs From: Kent or Jackie Ashton You are correct, Sir. One of the rites of passage to being a pilot is to learn the difference between flight time and time in service. :-) > Flight time means: > > (1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing; or https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/1.1 > On Mar 14, 2017, at 3:29 PM, Alec Myers wrote: > > > "Time in service, with respect to maintenance time records, means the time from the moment anaircraft leaves the surface of the earth until it touches it at the next point of landing." ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:07 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fwd: Re: King KX145 pin out, pin 10 At 08:03 AM 3/14/2017, you wrote: > >There are optical character recognition (OCR) programs that will >convert scanned documents into text. The size of the text file is a >very small fraction of the file size of the original scanned >document. The biggest advantage of a text file is that a computer >can search it for certain key words. A disadvantage is that the OCR >program will make errors that need to be found and corrected. > > I believe it fills 5+ DVDs. The KX-145 installation manual I have is available at http://tinyurl.com/zg3feyc It has been 'massaged' by Adobe Acrobat for character recognition and searching. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:15 PM PST US From: bobsv35b@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Tack vs Hobbs The FAA only requires that time for maintenance purposes be listed from actual lift off to actual touchdown. The engine recording tachometer has been accepted as a legal substitute for actual lift off to touch down figure. It all depends on what you think is most convenient for you. Many helicopters use a switch on the collective. Others use tach time. Either could probably be supprted at a hearing. Almost all airlines use lift off to touch down times. Happy Skies, Old Bob -----Original Message----- From: donjohnston Sent: Tue, Mar 14, 2017 6:52 am Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Tack vs Hobbs alec(at)alecmyers.com wrote: > Let me as the question again: when the FAA mandates usage-based inspection or maintenance (for instance, mandatory 100 hour inspections for aircraft used for instruction) - what is the time that is counted towards those 100 hours? Is it engine run time, or air time, or tach time, or some other measure? When I had a TC aircraft, every shop used tach time. Not a single maintenance facility ever looked at the hobbs meter unless they needed the total airframe hours. I can't say if there's a FAR enforcing that though and if there is, which one. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467283#467283 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:49 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: About those 'Copper Tops' While sitting at the keyboard on more interesting things, I often have some sample battery running on cap tests. I've been gathering data to repeat the experiment I did about ten years ago that asked "How bad can a flashlight battery be?" Just finished sucking the precious bodily fluids out of some Duracell AAs marked with a 2018 Use-By date. If memory serves, the advertising hype for this product boasts a 10-year shelf life. At least this batch of cells are only coughing up about 1/2 the capacity of a new cell . . . they demonstrate a higher internal impedance at the beginning of the discharge cycle. Does anyone have some Alkaline AAs out there that are pushing their use-by dates? It would be interesting to squeeze 'em and see how long they'll sing. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:14:30 PM PST US From: Alec Myers Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: About those 'Copper Tops' Apropos of this, I have a maybe-novel idea about how to test a bunch of competing battery brands, easily. I don't know if I made this up, or read about it somewhere but... Connect them in series, and discharge the battery of cells through a dummy load. That way, at any given time, they've all passed the same number of electrons/coulombs of charge. Periodically disconnect the load and measure each cell's no-load terminal voltage. The cells that die first should be obvious. What do esteemed list readers think? On Mar 14, 2017, at 22:26, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: While sitting at the keyboard on more interesting things, I often have some sample battery running on cap tests. I've been gathering data to repeat the experiment I did about ten years ago that asked "How bad can a flashlight battery be?" Just finished sucking the precious bodily fluids out of some Duracell AAs marked with a 2018 Use-By date. If memory serves, the advertising hype for this product boasts a 10-year shelf life. At least this batch of cells are only coughing up about 1/2 the capacity of a new cell . . . they demonstrate a higher internal impedance at the beginning of the discharge cycle. Does anyone have some Alkaline AAs out there that are pushing their use-by dates? It would be interesting to squeeze 'em and see how long they'll sing. Bob . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.