Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:48 AM - Lightweight rechargeable battery backup unit (BobD)
2. 06:12 AM - Re: Lightweight rechargeable battery backup unit (Charlie England)
3. 07:07 AM - Re: Lightweight rechargeable battery backup unit (user9253)
4. 08:08 AM - Re: Re: Lightweight rechargeable battery backup unit (Tcwtech)
5. 08:38 AM - Re: Lightweight rechargeable battery backup unit (BobD)
6. 08:50 AM - Re: Lightweight rechargeable battery backup unit (Jan de Jong)
7. 09:01 AM - Re: Re: Lightweight rechargeable battery backup unit (Tcwtech)
8. 09:39 AM - Re: Re: Lightweight rechargeable battery backup unit (John Cox)
9. 10:25 AM - Re: Lightweight rechargeable battery backup unit (user9253)
10. 10:44 AM - Re: Lightweight rechargeable battery backup unit (user9253)
11. 06:58 PM - Re: Lightweight rechargeable battery backup unit (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Lightweight rechargeable battery backup unit |
Now that the LAA have approved the use of electronic ASI & Altimeter for backup
purposes as an alternative to steam driven instruments, I am considering installing
a combined unit in my aircraft as a backup to my Dynon Skyview.
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/TechnicalLeaflets/Mods%20and%20Repairs/TL%203.20%20EFIS%20in%20LAA%20Aircraft.pdf
The pre-approved one I prefer (on clarity and cost grounds) from the LAA document
is the MGL ASX-1. However, it has one major drawback in that it does not have
a built in battery backup.
Having spoken to a distributor, he suggested a 9V PP3 battery (possibly switchable
in the circuit) would be sufficient for emergency power if the main circuit
failed. However, I would prefer a re-chargeable battery, re-charged through
the aircraft system, so as not to have to worry or check that the backup battery
is maintained in a charged state. Despite trawling the web, and there being
several commercial units and amateur wiring diagrams out there, I have found
none that are specific for incorporating in an aircraft.
I am reasonably competent with a soldering iron, but less so in the theory of such
things, so would be happy to construct my own on a PCB, from a detailed wiring
diagram. Does anyone know of such a diagram, or a suitable lightweight and
cost effective commercial device suitable for installation behind the Control
Panel?
--------
Bob Dawson
XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467484#467484
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Lightweight rechargeable battery backup unit |
On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 5:45 AM, BobD <rjd@bobdawson.plus.com> wrote:
>
> Now that the LAA have approved the use of electronic ASI & Altimeter for
> backup purposes as an alternative to steam driven instruments, I am
> considering installing a combined unit in my aircraft as a backup to my
> Dynon Skyview.
>
> http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/
> TechnicalLeaflets/Mods%20and%20Repairs/TL%203.20%20EFIS%
> 20in%20LAA%20Aircraft.pdf
>
> The pre-approved one I prefer (on clarity and cost grounds) from the LAA
> document is the MGL ASX-1. However, it has one major drawback in that it
> does not have a built in battery backup.
>
> Having spoken to a distributor, he suggested a 9V PP3 battery (possibly
> switchable in the circuit) would be sufficient for emergency power if the
> main circuit failed. However, I would prefer a re-chargeable battery,
> re-charged through the aircraft system, so as not to have to worry or check
> that the backup battery is maintained in a charged state. Despite trawling
> the web, and there being several commercial units and amateur wiring
> diagrams out there, I have found none that are specific for incorporating
> in an aircraft.
>
> I am reasonably competent with a soldering iron, but less so in the theory
> of such things, so would be happy to construct my own on a PCB, from a
> detailed wiring diagram. Does anyone know of such a diagram, or a suitable
> lightweight and cost effective commercial device suitable for installation
> behind the Control Panel?
>
> --------
> Bob Dawson
> XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ
>
>
> Have you considered placing the battery 'in series' (**sloppy design
speak**) with the supply? If you feed bus voltage to a voltage regulator,
then tie the VR's output to the backup battery and the device, the device
would be electrically isolated from the bus and always powered by the
regulator/backup battery, but the battery would never be discharged.
Idea is to set the regulator at the charge point of the backup. If you use
an adjustable boost-buck 'switching' regulator, your voltage set point
could be the same as your bus voltage, and your backup battery could be the
same voltage but lower current version of your main battery. Noise from the
'switcher' could be an issue, but if using a quality power supply, its
output should be cleaner than an alternator's output. Simply size the PS to
be slightly bigger than the demand of your instrument.
An alternative would be the 9V battery and a linear regulator adjusted to
the minimum acceptable charge voltage for the 9V battery. Less efficient
and more heat, but no noise at all.
Charlie
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Lightweight rechargeable battery backup unit |
How about this circuit?
Small rechargeable lead acid batteries are available that weight less than 1 pound.
http://www.zbattery.com/Batteries/List-of-All-12Vs
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467490#467490
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/backup_battery_104.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/backup_battery_291.jpg
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Lightweight rechargeable battery backup unit |
I'm aware that many on this list are interested in rolling their own solutions
to many things, which is all well and good. For those that are interested
in an engineered and proven solution to back-up power for critical avionics I
would recommend you visit our web site and review our IBBS series of products.
They are a self-contained back-up system with an internal smart charger and
power transfer switching. We have been producing these products for 7 years
for the experimental and are on the verge of releasing our TSO'd version.
Thanks for the consideration,
Www.tcwtech.com
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies, LLC
610-928-3420
> On Mar 21, 2017, at 10:04 AM, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> How about this circuit?
> Small rechargeable lead acid batteries are available that weight less than 1
pound.
> http://www.zbattery.com/Batteries/List-of-All-12Vs
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467490#467490
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/backup_battery_104.pdf
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/backup_battery_291.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Lightweight rechargeable battery backup unit |
Bob, Thank You and the other contributors for your replies.
Please excuse my ignorance, but having reviewed your IBBS products, even the small
unit at 2.5 lbs seems overkill in terms of my requirement, for a potential
device to power for up to 30 minutes one low power instrument in VFR conditions.
I was hoping to be able to use either rechargeable alkaline, NiCd or NiMH batteries.
I hope my expectations aren't too ambitious, as I assume something like
this is included within the other Instruments mentioned in the LAA leaflet.
Again, the questions are asked because of my limited knowledge
[Rolling Eyes]
--------
Bob Dawson
XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467495#467495
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Lightweight rechargeable battery backup unit |
What I would do. Don't forget an on/off function between aux. battery
and load (not drawn).
Jan de Jong
On 3/21/2017 3:04 PM, user9253 wrote:
>
> How about this circuit?
> Small rechargeable lead acid batteries are available that weight less than 1
pound.
> http://www.zbattery.com/Batteries/List-of-All-12Vs
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467490#467490
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/backup_battery_104.pdf
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/backup_battery_291.jpg
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Lightweight rechargeable battery backup unit |
Our smallest product is 3 amp-hrs and weighs in at 18 oz.
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies, LLC
610-928-3420
> On Mar 21, 2017, at 11:35 AM, BobD <rjd@bobdawson.plus.com> wrote:
>
>
> Bob, Thank You and the other contributors for your replies.
>
> Please excuse my ignorance, but having reviewed your IBBS products, even the
small unit at 2.5 lbs seems overkill in terms of my requirement, for a potential
device to power for up to 30 minutes one low power instrument in VFR conditions.
>
> I was hoping to be able to use either rechargeable alkaline, NiCd or NiMH batteries.
I hope my expectations aren't too ambitious, as I assume something like
this is included within the other Instruments mentioned in the LAA leaflet.
>
> Again, the questions are asked because of my limited knowledge
> [Rolling Eyes]
>
> --------
> Bob Dawson
> XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467495#467495
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Lightweight rechargeable battery backup unit |
I will Second this thoughtful suggestion.
John Cox,
Retired Airline Avionics tech
On Mar 21, 2017 09:08, "Tcwtech" <rnewman@tcwtech.com> wrote:
>
> Our smallest product is 3 amp-hrs and weighs in at 18 oz.
>
> Bob Newman
> TCW Technologies, LLC
> 610-928-3420
>
> > On Mar 21, 2017, at 11:35 AM, BobD <rjd@bobdawson.plus.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Bob, Thank You and the other contributors for your replies.
> >
> > Please excuse my ignorance, but having reviewed your IBBS products, even
> the small unit at 2.5 lbs seems overkill in terms of my requirement, for a
> potential device to power for up to 30 minutes one low power instrument in
> VFR conditions.
> >
> > I was hoping to be able to use either rechargeable alkaline, NiCd or
> NiMH batteries. I hope my expectations aren't too ambitious, as I assume
> something like this is included within the other Instruments mentioned in
> the LAA leaflet.
> >
> > Again, the questions are asked because of my limited knowledge
> > [Rolling Eyes]
> >
> > --------
> > Bob Dawson
> > XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467495#467495
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Lightweight rechargeable battery backup unit |
You could connect 11 of NiMH AA or AAA cells and 2 diodes all in series. But not
much weight will be saved over a small lead acid battery. The more connections
there are, the greater the chance of failure. Those AA battery holders with
springs are prone to fail. Pre-made 13.2 volt NiMH battery packs are available
for an outrageous price.
> Don't forget an on/off function between aux. battery and load (not drawn).
Good idea.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467500#467500
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Lightweight rechargeable battery backup unit |
This sealed lead acid battery weighs 12 oz.
Use a schottky diode to minimize voltage drop.
http://www.zbattery.com/Power-Patrol-12v-800mAh-Sealed-SLA1000?sc=2&category=62965
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467501#467501
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Lightweight rechargeable battery backup unit |
>
>Having spoken to a distributor, he suggested a 9V PP3 battery
>(possibly switchable in the circuit) would be sufficient for
>emergency power if the main circuit failed. However, I would prefer
>a re-chargeable battery, re-charged through the aircraft system, so
>as not to have to worry or check that the backup battery is
>maintained in a charged state.
Be cautious here my friend. Consider ANY battery
you install for ANY purpose on your airplane . . .
batteries are like house plants . . . no, worse
than house plants . . . at least you can SEE when
the sucker has wilted.
Just because you have a set of secondary cells
(rechargeable) supported by an outside energy
source does not eliminate the need for periodic
capacity testing to make sure that battery will
meet mission goals when called upon to do its
task. Another battery, whether rechargeable or
not, becomes another line item on your
ship's preventative maintenance list . . . a line
item that, unlike your tires, cannot be visually
inspected for airworthiness.
Tell us about the rest of your airplane. What
kind of alternator(s), battery(ies), ignition
systems, fuel motivators, etc. Is your engine
electrically dependent? If so, how are you reducing
risk for loss of electromotive incentives to keep
the fan running?
Given that so many OBAM aircraft are being configured
with a great deal of electrical dependency, then
it automatically follows that what ever is planned
to keep you airborne is also adequate to keeping you
right side up and headed in the right direction.
Bob . . .
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