---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/29/17: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:54 AM - Re: heater fan wiring (Ken Ryan) 2. 01:08 PM - Re: Re: heater fan wiring (Stephen Richards) 3. 01:29 PM - Re: ASX-1 Supply (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 01:35 PM - Re: Re: heater fan wiring (Charlie England) 5. 03:17 PM - Re: Re: heater fan wiring () 6. 05:27 PM - Re: heater fan wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 05:27 PM - Re: Re: heater fan wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 05:50 PM - Re: Re: heater fan wiring (Ken Ryan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:54:16 AM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: heater fan wiring Thanks Charlie. If I ever start blowing fuses I will try these. Good to know that they exist. Sent from my Android. Sorry Steve. On Mar 28, 2017 2:10 PM, "Charlie England" wrote: > ceengland7@gmail.com> > > On 3/28/2017 2:49 PM, Ken Ryan wrote: > >> I am building a cabin heater (Rotax) and the fan draws 4.3 amps. I have >> read that on startup it can draw 12 amps. It is a permanent magnet type >> fan. It looks like a large computer fan on steroids. >> >> I have decided to use my "defrost" circuit, which was originally going to >> power a couple of small, low draw computer fans. I wired it with 20 AWG >> wire. >> >> I would like to use the existing wiring for the fan, but I might need to >> put in a 12 amp fuse, and am a little concerned that might be too much for >> the 20 AWG wire. >> >> The wire from the bus to the switch is about 18 inches and the wire from >> the switch to the fan is about 24 inches. >> >> I guess I have two questions: >> >> 1. What would be the largest fuse I could use and still be safe? >> >> 2. If I test it and it doesn't blow a 5 amp (or 7.5 amp) fuse, do you >> think it would be likely to continue working indefinitely? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ken >> > Somebody on another forum recently posted a link to Cooper Bussman ATC > format circuit breakers. The time-to-trip vs overload percentage looks a > lot like traditional circuit breakers, instead of the near-instant trip of > an ATC fuse. Might be worth a look. The longer time constant should allow > for momentary startup loads. > http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/dam/public/bussmann/ > Transportation/Resources/catalog_pages/BUS_Tns_227_ATC_CB.pdf > > http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/dam/public/bussmann/ > Transportation/Resources/catalog_pages/circuit- > protection/bus-cbt-ds-series-22x-circuit-breakers.pdf > > That's a really sturdy looking fan box. :-) What's it weigh? > > Charlie > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:08:56 PM PST US From: Stephen Richards Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: heater fan wiring QmVybmllICBOb3Qgc3VyZSB3aHkgeW91IGhhdmUgcHV0IGEgcXVlc3Rpb24gYWJvdXQgVVNCIGNo YXJnZXJzIHVuZGVyIHRoaXMgdGhyZWFkIGJ1dCBJIHVuZGVyc3RhbmQgQW5rZXIgcHJvZHVjdHMg YXJlIG5vaXNlIGZyZWUgSSBoYXZlIHVzZWQgYSBVU0IgcG93ZXIgZHJpdmUgMiBhbmQgY2FuIGhv bGQgYSBoYW5kIGhlbGQgcmFkaW8gbmVhciB0aGlzIHdpdGggbm8gcHJvYmxlbQ0KQ2xpdmUgDQoN Ci0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiAiQmVybmllIFdpbGxpcyIgPGFyY3Rp Y2Fycm93QGdtYWlsLmNvbT4NClNlbnQ6IOKAjjI5L+KAjjAzL+KAjjIwMTcgMDI6MDkNClRvOiAi YWVyb2VsZWN0cmljLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbSIgPGFlcm9lbGVjdHJpYy1saXN0QG1hdHJv bmljcy5jb20+DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogQWVyb0VsZWN0cmljLUxpc3Q6IFJlOiBoZWF0ZXIgZmFu IHdpcmluZw0KDQotLT4gQWVyb0VsZWN0cmljLUxpc3QgbWVzc2FnZSBwb3N0ZWQgYnk6IEJlcm5p ZSBXaWxsaXMgPGFyY3RpY2Fycm93QGdtYWlsLmNvbT4NCg0KVGhpcyBxdWVzdGlvbiBpcyBhYm91 dCBVU0IgIGNoYXJnaW5nIHBvcnRzIGFuZCByYWRpbyBpbnRlcmZlcmVuY2Uvbm9pc2UuDQpJ4oCZ dmUgY2hlY2sgb3V0IGEgY291cGxlIGNoYXJnaW5nIHBvcnRzIHRoYXQgcGx1ZyBpbnRvIHRoZSBj aWdhcmV0dGUgbGlnaHRlciBhbmQgdGhleSBib3RoIHByb2R1Y2Ugbm9pc2Ugd2hlbiBjaGFyZ2lu Zy4gQm90aCBwdXJjaGFzZWQgZnJvbSBwaWxvdCBzaG9wcy4gIEFsc28gdHJpZWQgYSBjb3VwbGUg ZGlyZWN0IHdpcmUgVVNCIGNoYXJnaW5nIHBvcnRzIGZyb20gbWFyaW5lL2F1dG8gYXBwbGljYXRp b25zIHdpdGggdGhlIHNhbWUgcmVzdWx0LiAgSXMgdGhlcmUgYW55IHdheSB0byBmaWx0ZXIgb3Ig c2hpZWxkIHRoZXNlIGRldmljZXMgdG8gcmVkdWNlIG9yIGVsaW1pbmF0ZSB0aGUgcmFkaW8gbm9p c2UuICBUaGUgbm9pc2UgY2Fu4oCZdCBiZSBlbGltaW5hdGVkIHdpdGggc3F1ZWxjaCBhZGp1c3Rt ZW50LiAgSeKAmW0gdXNpbmcgYSBoYW5kIGhlbGQgaWNvbSByYWRpbyBmb3IgdGhlIHRlc3QsICBp dCBkb2VzbuKAmXQgc2VlIHRvIG1ha2UgYW55IGRpZmZlcmVuY2UgaWYgdGhlIHJhZGlvIGlzIDEy IHRvIDM2IOKAnCBhd2F5IGZyb20gdGhlIGNoYXJnaW5nIHBvcnQuDQoNClRoYW5rcywNCkJlcm5p ZQ0KPiBPbiBNYXIgMjgsIDIwMTcsIGF0IDQ6MDEgUE0sIHVzZXI5MjUzIDxmcmFuc2V3QGdtYWls LmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+IA0KPiAtLT4gQWVyb0VsZWN0cmljLUxpc3QgbWVzc2FnZSBwb3N0ZWQg Ynk6ICJ1c2VyOTI1MyIgPGZyYW5zZXdAZ21haWwuY29tPg0KPiANCj4gS2VuLCBTb21lIGZhbiBz cGVlZCBjb250cm9sbGVycyBwdXQgb3V0IGEgc3RlYWR5IERDIGZvciBzZXZlcmFsIG1pbGxpc2Vj b25kcyB0byBzdGFydCBhIG1vdG9yLCB0aGVuIGNoYW5nZSBvdmVyIHRvIFBXTS4gIFRoZSBtb3Rv ciBtaWdodCB2ZXJ5IHdlbGwgZHJhdyAxMiBhbXBzIHRvIHN0YXJ0LCBidXQgb25seSBmb3IgYSBm cmFjdGlvbiBvZiBhIHNlY29uZCwgdG9vIHNob3J0IG9mIGEgdGltZSB0byBoZWF0IHVwIGFuZCBi bG93IGEgZnVzZS4gIEl0IGxvb2tzIGxpa2UgeW91IGhhdmUgYW5zd2VyZWQgeW91ciBvd24gcXVl c3Rpb24gYnkgdGVzdGluZy4gIEFzIGxvbmcgYXMgaXQgd29ya3MsIGl0IGlzIGdvb2QgZW5vdWdo Lg0KPiAgVGhhbmtzIGZvciB0aG9zZSBsaW5rcyBDaGFybGllLiAgSSBuZXZlciBrbmV3IEFUQyBj aXJjdWl0IGJyZWFrZXJzIGV4aXN0ZWQuDQo+IA0KPiAtLS0tLS0tLQ0KPiBKb2UgR29yZXMNCj4g DQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IFJlYWQgdGhpcyB0b3BpYyBvbmxpbmUgaGVyZToNCj4gDQo+IGh0dHA6 Ly9mb3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS92aWV3dG9waWMucGhwP3A9NDY3NzcxIzQ2Nzc3MQ0KPiAN Cj4gDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IA0KDQoNCl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09DQpfLT0gICAgICAgICAg LSBUaGUgQWVyb0VsZWN0cmljLUxpc3QgRW1haWwgRm9ydW0gLQ0KXy09IFVzZSB0aGUgTWF0cm9u aWNzIExpc3QgRmVhdHVyZXMgTmF2aWdhdG9yIHRvIGJyb3dzZQ0KXy09IHRoZSBtYW55IExpc3Qg dXRpbGl0aWVzIHN1Y2ggYXMgTGlzdCBVbi9TdWJzY3JpcHRpb24sDQpfLT0gQXJjaGl2ZSBTZWFy Y2ggJiBEb3dubG9hZCwgNy1EYXkgQnJvd3NlLCBDaGF0LCBGQVEsDQpfLT0gUGhvdG9zaGFyZSwg YW5kIG11Y2ggbXVjaCBtb3JlOg0KXy09DQpfLT0gICAtLT4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3Mu Y29tL05hdmlnYXRvcj9BZXJvRWxlY3RyaWMtTGlzdA0KXy09DQpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KXy09ICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgLSBNQVRST05JQ1MgV0VCIEZPUlVNUyAtDQpfLT0gU2FtZSBncmVhdCBjb250ZW50IGFs c28gYXZhaWxhYmxlIHZpYSB0aGUgV2ViIEZvcnVtcyENCl8tPQ0KXy09ICAgLS0+IGh0dHA6Ly9m b3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KXy09DQpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAtIE5FVyBN QVRST05JQ1MgTElTVCBXSUtJIC0NCl8tPSBBZGQgc29tZSBpbmZvIHRvIHRoZSBNYXRyb25pY3Mg RW1haWwgTGlzdCBXaWtpIQ0KXy09ICAgLS0+IGh0dHA6Ly93aWtpLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NCl8t PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09DQpfLT0gICAgICAgICAgICAgLSBMaXN0IENvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbiBXZWIgU2l0ZSAtDQpfLT0g IFRoYW5rIHlvdSBmb3IgeW91ciBnZW5lcm91cyBzdXBwb3J0IQ0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLU1hdHQgRHJhbGxlLCBMaXN0IEFkbWluLg0KXy09ICAgLS0+IGh0dHA6 Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9jb250cmlidXRpb24NCl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09DQoNCg0KDQo ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:29:01 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: ASX-1 Supply At 12:36 AM 3/28/2017, you wrote: > >Fail to understand why the SPDT solution isn't much better. It >eliminates two components, lets you test the battery supply anytime >and allows power to the ASX-1 to be shut off (presumably only for >maintenance). Or with a DPDT switch one could use the second pole >to take power from the 3a fuse and light a big LED warning if the >switch is in the battery position. Granted, there is a new single >point of failure but don't see how failure of the ASX-1 prevents >completion of the flight as planned. > >Tom Tom's comments planted seeds of a new idea which I massaged for several house on the "asphalt drafting board" yesterday driving to Wichita. I'll offer this configuration which I am considering as a new z-figure to the 'Connection . . . Emacs! This idea adds a warning light for standby battery switch position. This would reduce probability for inadvertent depletion of the battery. I've also added a fuse to the battery pack which is advised especially when the appliance teamed with design goals call for up-sizing the stand-by cells. Let's digest this configuration for awhile . . . Hat tip to Tom K! Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:35:08 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: heater fan wiring From: Charlie England Also, try SteinAir. They sell one that's supposed to be noise free. On 3/29/2017 2:57 PM, Stephen Richards wrote: > Bernie Not sure why you have put a question about USB chargers under > this thread but I understand Anker products are noise free I have used > a USB power drive 2 and can hold a hand held radio near this with no > problem > Clive > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > From: Bernie Willis > Sent: 29/03/2017 02:09 > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: heater fan wiring > > > > This question is about USB charging ports and radio interference/noise. > Ive check out a couple charging ports that plug into the cigarette > lighter and they both produce noise when charging. Both purchased from > pilot shops. Also tried a couple direct wire USB charging ports from > marine/auto applications with the same result. Is there any way to > filter or shield these devices to reduce or eliminate the radio > noise. The noise cant be eliminated with squelch adjustment. Im > using a hand held icom radio for the test, it doesnt see to make any > difference if the radio is 12 to 36 away from the charging port. > > Thanks, > Bernie > > On Mar 28, 2017, at 4:01 PM, user9253 wrote: > > > > > > Ken, Some fan speed controllers put out a steady DC for several > milliseconds to start a motor, then change over to PWM. The motor > might very well draw 12 amps to start, but only for a fraction of a > second, too short of a time to heat up and blow a fuse. It looks like > you have answered your own question by testing. As long as it works, > it is good enough. > > Thanks for those links Charlie. I never knew ATC circuit breakers > existed. > > > > -------- > > Joe Gores > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467771#467771 > > > > > > > sp; - MATRONICS WEB F - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - > _= p; &====== > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:17:29 PM PST US From: Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: heater fan wiring +1 on the Anker "aux port" chargers. They also make great USB and Lightning cables, including 6-foot lengths. Jim Parker -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: heater fan wiring From: Stephen Richards Bernie Not sure why you have put a question about USB chargers under this thread but I understand Anker products are noise free I have used a USB power drive 2 and can hold a hand held radio near this with no problem Clive From: Bernie Willis Sent: 29/03/2017 02:09 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: heater fan wiring This question is about USB charging ports and radio interference/noise. Ive check out a couple charging ports that plug into the cigarette lighter and they both produce noise when charging. Both purchased from pilot shops. Also tried a couple direct wire USB charging ports from marine/auto applications with the same result. Is there any way to filter or shield these devices to reduce or eliminate the radio noise. The noise cant be eliminated with squelch adjustment. Im using a hand held icom radio for the test, it doesnt see to make any difference if the radio is 12 to 36 away from the charging port. Thanks, Bernie > On Mar 28, 2017, at 4:01 PM, user9253 wrote: > > > Ken, Some fan speed controllers put out a steady DC for several milliseconds to start a motor, then change over to PWM. The motor might very well draw 12 amps to start, but only for a fraction of a second, too short of a time to heat up and blow a fuse. It looks like you have answered your own question by testing. As long as it works, it is good enough. > Thanks for those links Charlie. I never knew ATC circuit breakers existed. > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467771#467771 > > > sp; - MATRONICS WEB F - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - _= p; &====== ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:31 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: heater fan wiring At 02:49 PM 3/28/2017, you wrote: >I am building a cabin heater (Rotax) and the fan draws 4.3 amps. I >have read that on startup it can draw 12 amps. This will be for milliseconds during spin-up . . . leave the 20AWG in place and go with 10A fuse . . . it's probably going to be fine. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:41 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: heater fan wiring At 04:12 PM 3/28/2017, you wrote: > >I would try a 7.5 amp fuse. I usually prefer fuses. But for a motor, > a circuit breaker will not nuisance trip as easily. Some day the motor > bearings will freeze up. If fused higher and the motor draws 12 > amps continuously, > the wire will then get hot enough to boil water. Actually, 20AWG is pretty 'cool' at 12A. See http://tinyurl.com/lk2tmhx If a 22AWG at 20A just barely passes 100C in free air . . . a 20AWG at 12A is pretty safe. A 10A fuse would be fine . . . Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:48 PM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: heater fan wiring Great! Thanks. Sent from my Android. Sorry Steve. On Mar 29, 2017 4:35 PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 04:12 PM 3/28/2017, you wrote: > > > I would try a 7.5 amp fuse. I usually prefer fuses. But for a motor, > a circuit breaker will not nuisance trip as easily. Some day the motor > bearings will freeze up. If fused higher and the motor draws 12 amps > continuously, > the wire will then get hot enough to boil water. > > > Actually, 20AWG is pretty 'cool' at 12A. See > > http://tinyurl.com/lk2tmhx > > If a 22AWG at 20A just barely passes 100C in free > air . . . a 20AWG at 12A is pretty safe. > > A 10A fuse would be fine . . . > > Bob . . . > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.