Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:37 AM - Re: Starter engaged warning light (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 06:50 AM - [OT] DecalPRO (Art Zemon)
3. 07:50 AM - Re: [OT] DecalPRO (Jim Dabney)
4. 11:09 AM - Re: [OT] DecalPRO (ARGOLDMAN@aol.com)
5. 11:56 AM - RS-232 GPS Input (Art Zemon)
6. 12:21 PM - Re: RS-232 GPS Input (Ralph E. Capen)
7. 12:37 PM - Re: RS-232 GPS Input (Charlie England)
8. 01:07 PM - Re: RS-232 GPS Input (don van santen)
9. 01:26 PM - Re: RS-232 GPS Input (Kelly McMullen)
10. 01:38 PM - Is a battery contactor really needed? (rv8ch)
11. 01:42 PM - Re: RS-232 GPS Input (Tim Olson)
12. 02:33 PM - Re: RS-232 GPS Input (ARGOLDMAN@aol.com)
13. 02:57 PM - Re: RS-232 GPS Input (don van santen)
14. 03:12 PM - Re: RS-232 GPS Input (Art Zemon)
15. 03:55 PM - Re: Starter engaged warning light (Jeff Point)
16. 03:58 PM - Re: RS-232 GPS Input (Ralph E. Capen)
17. 04:11 PM - Re: Is a battery contactor really needed? (user9253)
18. 04:20 PM - Re: old B and C SD-8 Dynamo failure (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 04:21 PM - Re: RS-232 GPS Input (Art Zemon)
20. 04:28 PM - Re: RS-232 GPS Input (Ralph E. Capen)
21. 05:08 PM - Re: RS-232 GPS Input (Charlie England)
22. 06:35 PM - Re: RS-232 GPS Input (Ralph E. Capen)
23. 08:42 PM - ICE Disruptor? (jonlaury)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Starter engaged warning light |
At 11:21 PM 4/11/2017, you wrote:
>
>Hey Jeff,
>
>I'm not 100% sure on this but I think I've seen a cutaway photo
>showing that the
>"I" terminal on the other type of solenoid is actually connected
>internally to the same
>basic spot as the big terminal is. So I would think it would work just fine.
Correct . . .
>I'm guessing that the reason they even added the terminal is for
>simplicity in wiring those smaller wire ends to the solenoid without needing
>a large ring terminal.
Actually, the "I" terminal is a holdover from
the early days of the transition from 6 to 12
volt cars. It was deduced that the original
6v Kettering type ignition coil could be
retained if one simply added a resistor in
series with the coil . . . the added source
resistance REDUCES coil charging time and
you got better performance at higher RPM.
A further benefit was realized by adding
the "I" for ignition terminal to the starter
contactor. This was used to bypass the coil
resistor increased spark energy at low
RPM of engine cranking. You can see the
full disclosure of the 3-terminal starter
contactors here:
Emacs!
All three 'floating' terminals of the
power path through the contactor get connected
together simultaneously with the motion of
"B" against "A" as suggested by the schematic
below.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/Starter_Contact
Fully floating contacts were necessary to achieve
design goals for the automotive world . . . and
they're handy for our purposes 60 years later to
drive a light bulb . . . but the same goal can be
achieved by attaching driving the light directly
from the starter motor's power input terminal.
Don't forget to fuse the wire at the starter
end if driving a lamp . . . or you could put
the LED's current limiting resistor in series
with the wire at the starter end and eliminate
the fuse . . . the resistor will protect the
shorted wire.
>
Bob . . .
Message 2
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Not strictly electrical but I'll be somebody here has some experience...
I am thinking about using the DecalPRO
<http://www.pulsarprofx.com/decalpro/Vertical/1_MENU/1a_Home/Aircraft/Aircraft.html>
system for my instrument panel. Do you have any experience with it?
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: [OT] DecalPRO |
Art, I used that system on my panel. It takes some practice to get good
results, but it does work. I did the panel 8 years ago and it's held up
well.
Jim
On 4/12/2017 8:47 AM, Art Zemon wrote:
> Not strictly electrical but I'll be somebody here has some experience...
>
> I am thinking about using the DecalPRO
> <http://www.pulsarprofx.com/decalpro/Vertical/1_MENU/1a_Home/Aircraft/Aircraft.html>
> system for my instrument panel. Do you have any experience with it?
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> /"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself,
> what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel/
> !DSPAM:729,58ee3381247391849433127!
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: [OT] DecalPRO |
Greetings Art.
I have the Decal Pro system and it is great, although somewhat complicated.
You print out your labels using a Laser printer (cannon, I think is not
allowed)
You then take your label sheet and using a heat/plastic laminatior-- has to
be the type they recommend, and I believe sell-- make several passes of
your label sheet with a few types of transfer foil and paper. You then
soak the labels that you have created to remove them from the carrier
paper, dry them and using a special fabric adhesive (available at fabric stores)
spray the back of your labels and apply them to their home burnishing them
in. I put them on my leather instrument panel and I think that they came
out well. There is a steep learning curve. Somewhere in the technique there
is a heat gun (hair dryer is not acceptable) (the labels on my panel were
black.\
My next step is to do my switch labels (in white) which requires yet an
additional step or two. I have postponed that for a year or two, but will get
back to that soon. Look at the videos on the website, although the actual
technique is slightly different... they will tell you.
Great product, difficult to use steep learning curve .
Rich
In a message dated 4/12/2017 8:51:27 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
art@zemon.name writes:
Not strictly electrical but I'll be somebody here has some experience...
I am thinking about using the _DecalPRO_
(http://www.pulsarprofx.com/decalpro/Vertical/1_MENU/1a_Home/Aircraft/Aircraft.html) system for my instrument
panel. Do you have any experience with it?
-- Art Z.
--
_https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/_ (https://cheerfulcurmudgeon.com/)
"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
Message 5
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Subject: | RS-232 GPS Input |
Folks,
I am considering an ARTEX ELT 345 which requires a GPS signal to its
"Built-in GPS Navigational Interface (NMEA 0183 or RS 232)." If I
understand how to do this correctly from a Garmin GNS-430W, I just take the
RS-232 signal and a ground and run them to the ELT. Right?
The last time I did any RS-232 wiring was between DEC VAX computers and
VT-100 terminals in the 1980s. Is there anything that I should know with
regards to wiring these more modern devices?
Thanks,
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: RS-232 GPS Input |
Art,
You're pretty much on the money...couple of tricks with the 430W:
The 430W has multiple output ports - if you have one set to "Aviation", you can
simply fork that output signal wire.
Make sure that output port on the 430W is set to the correct output type ("Aviation")
to match the ARTEX - the default 9600 baud rate should take care of it.
Wiring a different port from the 430W is a PITB unless your panel has real good
access. Configure your new port for "Aviation" and you should be good to go.
I just did this to add ADSB and learned the difference between ports and protocols
output from the 430W - I needed "ADS-B OUT+" (wasn't in the original manual
- found out while troubleshooting with vendor) and had it connected to the "Aviation"
port. I needed to run a separate wire just for this!
Good Luck,
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: Art Zemon
Sent: Apr 12, 2017 2:54 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 GPS Input
Folks,
I am considering an ARTEX ELT 345 which requires a GPS signal to its "Built-in
GPS Navigational Interface (NMEA 0183 or RS 232)." If I understand how to do this
correctly from a Garmin GNS-430W, I just take the RS-232 signal and a ground
and run them to the ELT. Right?
The last time I did any RS-232 wiring was between DEC VAX computers and VT-100
terminals in the 1980s. Is there anything that I should know with regards to wiring
these more modern devices?
Thanks, -- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I?
And if not now, when?" Hillel
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: RS-232 GPS Input |
Another option is to go to ebay for a $20 gps puck with serial output, &
have an independent source.
On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Ralph E. Capen <recapen@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> recapen@earthlink.net>
>
> Art,
> You're pretty much on the money...couple of tricks with the 430W:
> The 430W has multiple output ports - if you have one set to "Aviation",
> you can simply fork that output signal wire.
> Make sure that output port on the 430W is set to the correct output type
> ("Aviation") to match the ARTEX - the default 9600 baud rate should take
> care of it.
> Wiring a different port from the 430W is a PITB unless your panel has real
> good access. Configure your new port for "Aviation" and you should be good
> to go.
>
> I just did this to add ADSB and learned the difference between ports and
> protocols output from the 430W - I needed "ADS-B OUT+" (wasn't in the
> original manual - found out while troubleshooting with vendor) and had it
> connected to the "Aviation" port. I needed to run a separate wire just for
> this!
>
> Good Luck,
> Ralph
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Art Zemon
>
> Sent: Apr 12, 2017 2:54 PM
>
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 GPS Input
>
>
> Folks,
> I am considering an ARTEX ELT 345 which requires a GPS signal to its
> "Built-in GPS Navigational Interface (NMEA 0183 or RS 232)." If I
> understand how to do this correctly from a Garmin GNS-430W, I just take the
> RS-232 signal and a ground and run them to the ELT. Right?
> The last time I did any RS-232 wiring was between DEC VAX computers and
> VT-100 terminals in the 1980s. Is there anything that I should know with
> regards to wiring these more modern devices?
> Thanks, -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> "If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
>
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: RS-232 GPS Input |
Another option is to go to ebay for a $20 gps puck with serial output, &
have an independent source.
Charlie,
The 2020 rules for ADS-B out require an approved WAAS GPS source. I do not
know of ant "puck" GPS that meets this requirement. If you know of one
please let me know.
On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:33 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Another option is to go to ebay for a $20 gps puck with serial output, &
> have an independent source.
>
> On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Ralph E. Capen <recapen@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> recapen@earthlink.net>
>>
>> Art,
>> You're pretty much on the money...couple of tricks with the 430W:
>> The 430W has multiple output ports - if you have one set to "Aviation",
>> you can simply fork that output signal wire.
>> Make sure that output port on the 430W is set to the correct output type
>> ("Aviation") to match the ARTEX - the default 9600 baud rate should take
>> care of it.
>> Wiring a different port from the 430W is a PITB unless your panel has
>> real good access. Configure your new port for "Aviation" and you should be
>> good to go.
>>
>> I just did this to add ADSB and learned the difference between ports and
>> protocols output from the 430W - I needed "ADS-B OUT+" (wasn't in the
>> original manual - found out while troubleshooting with vendor) and had it
>> connected to the "Aviation" port. I needed to run a separate wire just for
>> this!
>>
>> Good Luck,
>> Ralph
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> From: Art Zemon
>>
>> Sent: Apr 12, 2017 2:54 PM
>>
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 GPS Input
>>
>>
>>
>> Folks,
>> I am considering an ARTEX ELT 345 which requires a GPS signal to its
>> "Built-in GPS Navigational Interface (NMEA 0183 or RS 232)." If I
>> understand how to do this correctly from a Garmin GNS-430W, I just take the
>> RS-232 signal and a ground and run them to the ELT. Right?
>> The last time I did any RS-232 wiring was between DEC VAX computers and
>> VT-100 terminals in the 1980s. Is there anything that I should know with
>> regards to wiring these more modern devices?
>> Thanks, -- Art Z.
>>
>> --
>> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>>
>> "If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
>> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
>>
>>
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: RS-232 GPS Input |
1. He was using the GPS for ELT, not ADS-B. Does not need to meet any
approval.
2. The Dynon 2020 GPS puck meets the requirement, but it isn't cheap, at
$590. May not work with other brands.
On 4/12/2017 1:01 PM, don van santen wrote:
> Another option is to go to ebay for a $20 gps puck with serial output, &
> have an independent source.
>
> Charlie,
> The 2020 rules for ADS-B out require an approved WAAS GPS source. I do
> not know of ant "puck" GPS that meets this requirement. If you know of
> one please let me know.
>
> On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:33 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com
> <mailto:ceengland7@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Another option is to go to ebay for a $20 gps puck with serial
> output, & have an independent source.
>
> On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Ralph E. Capen
> <recapen@earthlink.net <mailto:recapen@earthlink.net>> wrote:
>
> <recapen@earthlink.net <mailto:recapen@earthlink.net>>
>
> Art,
> You're pretty much on the money...couple of tricks with the 430W:
> The 430W has multiple output ports - if you have one set to
> "Aviation", you can simply fork that output signal wire.
> Make sure that output port on the 430W is set to the correct
> output type ("Aviation") to match the ARTEX - the default 9600
> baud rate should take care of it.
> Wiring a different port from the 430W is a PITB unless your
> panel has real good access. Configure your new port for
> "Aviation" and you should be good to go.
>
> I just did this to add ADSB and learned the difference between
> ports and protocols output from the 430W - I needed "ADS-B OUT+"
> (wasn't in the original manual - found out while troubleshooting
> with vendor) and had it connected to the "Aviation" port. I
> needed to run a separate wire just for this!
>
> Good Luck,
> Ralph
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Art Zemon
>
> Sent: Apr 12, 2017 2:54 PM
>
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 GPS Input
>
>
> Folks,
> I am considering an ARTEX ELT 345 which requires a GPS signal to
> its "Built-in GPS Navigational Interface (NMEA 0183 or RS 232)."
> If I understand how to do this correctly from a Garmin GNS-430W,
> I just take the RS-232 signal and a ground and run them to the
> ELT. Right?
> The last time I did any RS-232 wiring was between DEC VAX
> computers and VT-100 terminals in the 1980s. Is there anything
> that I should know with regards to wiring these more modern devices?
> Thanks, -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ <https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/>
>
> "If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for
> myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
>
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Is a battery contactor really needed? |
There seem to be a lot of advantages to not disconnecting the alternator from the
battery, so I'm wondering if the battery contactor is really necessary?
The things I can see as advantages are that it provides an extra layer of protection
from accidental starter engagement, and provides a big switch that can be
used to disconnect the battery from everything.
I'm curious if there are other advantages that I'm not seeing.
Thanks!
--------
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468348#468348
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: RS-232 GPS Input |
This is for an ELT, not ADS-B.
> On Apr 12, 2017, at 3:01 PM, don van santen <donvansanten@gmail.com> wrote
:
>
> Another option is to go to ebay for a $20 gps puck with serial output, & h
ave an independent source.
>
> Charlie,
> The 2020 rules for ADS-B out require an approved WAAS GPS source. I do not
know of ant "puck" GPS that meets this requirement. If you know of one plea
se let me know.
>
>> On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:33 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com> w
rote:
>> Another option is to go to ebay for a $20 gps puck with serial output, & h
ave an independent source.
>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Ralph E. Capen <recapen@earthlink.net> w
rote:
link.net>
>>>
>>> Art,
>>> You're pretty much on the money...couple of tricks with the 430W:
>>> The 430W has multiple output ports - if you have one set to "Aviation", y
ou can simply fork that output signal wire.
>>> Make sure that output port on the 430W is set to the correct output type
("Aviation") to match the ARTEX - the default 9600 baud rate should take ca
re of it.
>>> Wiring a different port from the 430W is a PITB unless your panel has re
al good access. Configure your new port for "Aviation" and you should be go
od to go.
>>>
>>> I just did this to add ADSB and learned the difference between ports and
protocols output from the 430W - I needed "ADS-B OUT+" (wasn't in the origi
nal manual - found out while troubleshooting with vendor) and had it connect
ed to the "Aviation" port. I needed to run a separate wire just for this!
>>>
>>> Good Luck,
>>> Ralph
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>> From: Art Zemon
>>>
>>> Sent: Apr 12, 2017 2:54 PM
>>>
>>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>>
>>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 GPS Input
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Folks,
>>> I am considering an ARTEX ELT 345 which requires a GPS signal to its "Bu
ilt-in GPS Navigational Interface (NMEA 0183 or RS 232)." If I understand ho
w to do this correctly from a Garmin GNS-430W, I just take the RS-232 signal
and a ground and run them to the ELT. Right?
>>> The last time I did any RS-232 wiring was between DEC VAX computers and V
T-100 terminals in the 1980s. Is there anything that I should know with rega
rds to wiring these more modern devices?
>>> Thanks, -- Art Z.
>>>
>>> --
>>> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>>>
>>> "If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, wha
t am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
>
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: RS-232 GPS Input |
The new Dynon GPS antenna/device is approved it may only talk to dynon,
however.
Rich
In a message dated 4/12/2017 3:44:16 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
Tim@MyRV10.com writes:
This is for an ELT, not ADS-B.
On Apr 12, 2017, at 3:01 PM, don van santen <_donvansanten@gmail.com_
(mailto:donvansanten@gmail.com) > wrote:
Another option is to go to ebay for a $20 gps puck with serial output, &
have an independent source.
Charlie,
The 2020 rules for ADS-B out require an approved WAAS GPS source. I do not
know of ant "puck" GPS that meets this requirement. If you know of one
please let me know.
On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:33 PM, Charlie England <_ceengland7@gmail.com_
(mailto:ceengland7@gmail.com) > wrote:
Another option is to go to ebay for a $20 gps puck with serial output, &
have an independent source.
On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Ralph E. Capen <_recapen@earthlink.net_
(mailto:recapen@earthlink.net) > wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen"
<_recapen@earthlink.net_ (mailto:recapen@earthlink.net) >
Art,
You're pretty much on the money...couple of tricks with the 430W:
The 430W has multiple output ports - if you have one set to "Aviation",
you can simply fork that output signal wire.
Make sure that output port on the 430W is set to the correct output type
("Aviation") to match the ARTEX - the default 9600 baud rate should take
care of it.
Wiring a different port from the 430W is a PITB unless your panel has real
good access. Configure your new port for "Aviation" and you should be
good to go.
I just did this to add ADSB and learned the difference between ports and
protocols output from the 430W - I needed "ADS-B OUT+" (wasn't in the
original manual - found out while troubleshooting with vendor) and had it
connected to the "Aviation" port. I needed to run a separate wire just for this!
Good Luck,
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: Art Zemon
Sent: Apr 12, 2017 2:54 PM
(mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com)
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 GPS Input
Folks,
I am considering an ARTEX ELT 345 which requires a GPS signal to its
"Built-in GPS Navigational Interface (NMEA 0183 or RS 232)." If I understand
how to do this correctly from a Garmin GNS-430W, I just take the RS-232
signal and a ground and run them to the ELT. Right?
The last time I did any RS-232 wiring was between DEC VAX computers and
VT-100 terminals in the 1980s. Is there anything that I should know with
regards to wiring these more modern devices?
Thanks, -- Art Z.
--
_https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.comh_ (https://cheerfulcurmudgeon.com/)
"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: RS-232 GPS Input |
Sorry. I guess I need to get my eyes checked. DDon
On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 1:38 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
> This is for an ELT, not ADS-B.
>
>
> On Apr 12, 2017, at 3:01 PM, don van santen <donvansanten@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Another option is to go to ebay for a $20 gps puck with serial output, &
> have an independent source.
>
> Charlie,
> The 2020 rules for ADS-B out require an approved WAAS GPS source. I do not
> know of ant "puck" GPS that meets this requirement. If you know of one
> please let me know.
>
> On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:33 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Another option is to go to ebay for a $20 gps puck with serial output, &
>> have an independent source.
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Ralph E. Capen <recapen@earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> recapen@earthlink.net>
>>>
>>> Art,
>>> You're pretty much on the money...couple of tricks with the 430W:
>>> The 430W has multiple output ports - if you have one set to "Aviation",
>>> you can simply fork that output signal wire.
>>> Make sure that output port on the 430W is set to the correct output type
>>> ("Aviation") to match the ARTEX - the default 9600 baud rate should take
>>> care of it.
>>> Wiring a different port from the 430W is a PITB unless your panel has
>>> real good access. Configure your new port for "Aviation" and you should be
>>> good to go.
>>>
>>> I just did this to add ADSB and learned the difference between ports and
>>> protocols output from the 430W - I needed "ADS-B OUT+" (wasn't in the
>>> original manual - found out while troubleshooting with vendor) and had it
>>> connected to the "Aviation" port. I needed to run a separate wire just for
>>> this!
>>>
>>> Good Luck,
>>> Ralph
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>> From: Art Zemon
>>>
>>> Sent: Apr 12, 2017 2:54 PM
>>>
>>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>>
>>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 GPS Input
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Folks,
>>> I am considering an ARTEX ELT 345 which requires a GPS signal to its
>>> "Built-in GPS Navigational Interface (NMEA 0183 or RS 232)." If I
>>> understand how to do this correctly from a Garmin GNS-430W, I just take the
>>> RS-232 signal and a ground and run them to the ELT. Right?
>>> The last time I did any RS-232 wiring was between DEC VAX computers and
>>> VT-100 terminals in the 1980s. Is there anything that I should know with
>>> regards to wiring these more modern devices?
>>> Thanks, -- Art Z.
>>>
>>> --
>>> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>>>
>>> "If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself,
>>> what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
>>>
>>>
>
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: RS-232 GPS Input |
Ralph,
Thanks for confirming. I do intend to feed both the ADS-B and the ELT from
the 430W. I read of lots of people just splitting the signal to feed two
devices, which seems odd to me but then this is one-way communication so I
guess it ought to work. And I will check my ADS-B documentation carefully
to be sure that I get the right signal from the 430W.
So... just a single twisted pair for these RS-232 devices? I don't need any
of the other pins besides + and - ???
Should I shield it and, if so, where do I ground the shield?
-- Art Z.
On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Ralph E. Capen <recapen@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> recapen@earthlink.net>
>
> Art,
> You're pretty much on the money...couple of tricks with the 430W:
> The 430W has multiple output ports - if you have one set to "Aviation",
> you can simply fork that output signal wire.
> Make sure that output port on the 430W is set to the correct output type
> ("Aviation") to match the ARTEX - the default 9600 baud rate should take
> care of it.
> Wiring a different port from the 430W is a PITB unless your panel has real
> good access. Configure your new port for "Aviation" and you should be good
> to go.
>
> I just did this to add ADSB and learned the difference between ports and
> protocols output from the 430W - I needed "ADS-B OUT+" (wasn't in the
> original manual - found out while troubleshooting with vendor) and had it
> connected to the "Aviation" port. I needed to run a separate wire just for
> this!
>
> Good Luck,
> Ralph
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Art Zemon
>
> Sent: Apr 12, 2017 2:54 PM
>
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 GPS Input
>
>
> Folks,
> I am considering an ARTEX ELT 345 which requires a GPS signal to its
> "Built-in GPS Navigational Interface (NMEA 0183 or RS 232)." If I
> understand how to do this correctly from a Garmin GNS-430W, I just take the
> RS-232 signal and a ground and run them to the ELT. Right?
> The last time I did any RS-232 wiring was between DEC VAX computers and
> VT-100 terminals in the 1980s. Is there anything that I should know with
> regards to wiring these more modern devices?
> Thanks, -- Art Z.
>
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
Message 15
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|
Subject: | Re: Starter engaged warning light |
Thanks Bob (and others) for the detailed explanation confirming what I
thought. Protecting this run of 22ga wire seems like a perfect job for
a fusible link, and since I have some 26ga left over from the Ray Allen
servos, I will make one. The panel LED has a resistor built in so that
option is not available.
Jeff
On 4/12/17 4:25 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: RS-232 GPS Input |
Art,
I may not have been clear enough...
>From my reading of the ARTEX ELT manual, it needs "Aviation" from the 430W. It
looks like you can use a single pin shielded wire (grounded at the 430W end)
for the TX (at the 430W end) to the RX (at the ARTEX end - pin 9). If you have
something else that already uses "Aviation", you can do a take-off from that
port/wire - otherwise, see the next paragraph.
Depending on the ADSB box, it will most likely need "ADS-B OUT+" from the 430W
- mine did. This required me to use a different port on the 430W for the ADSB
box. I used a single pin shielded wire (grounded at the 430W end) for the TX
(at the 430W end) to the RX (at the ADSB end) for mine. It was a different port!
I have already 'wasted' the troubleshooting hours figuring out why it wasn't working
(install manual didn't call out "ADS-B OUT+" - I had to get that from tech
support after I had already wired it the other way.
I've got a picture of the 430W config if you want it - let me know and I'll send
it direct!
Hope this clears the mud I stirred up!
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: Art Zemon
Sent: Apr 12, 2017 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 GPS Input
Ralph,
Thanks for confirming. I do intend to feed both the ADS-B and the ELT from the
430W. I read of lots of people just splitting the signal to feed two devices,
which seems odd to me but then this is one-way communication so I guess it ought
to work. And I will check my ADS-B documentation carefully to be sure that
I get the right signal from the 430W.
So... just a single twisted pair for these RS-232 devices? I don't need any of
the other pins besides + and - ???Should I shield it and, if so, where do I ground
the shield?
-- Art Z.
On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Ralph E. Capen <recapen@earthlink.net> wrote:
Art,
You're pretty much on the money...couple of tricks with the 430W:
The 430W has multiple output ports - if you have one set to "Aviation", you can
simply fork that output signal wire.
Make sure that output port on the 430W is set to the correct output type ("Aviation")
to match the ARTEX - the default 9600 baud rate should take care of it.
Wiring a different port from the 430W is a PITB unless your panel has real good
access. Configure your new port for "Aviation" and you should be good to go.
I just did this to add ADSB and learned the difference between ports and protocols
output from the 430W - I needed "ADS-B OUT+" (wasn't in the original manual
- found out while troubleshooting with vendor) and had it connected to the "Aviation"
port. I needed to run a separate wire just for this!
Good Luck,
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: Art Zemon
Sent: Apr 12, 2017 2:54 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 GPS Input
Folks,
I am considering an ARTEX ELT 345 which requires a GPS signal to its "Built-in
GPS Navigational Interface (NMEA 0183 or RS 232)." If I understand how to do this
correctly from a Garmin GNS-430W, I just take the RS-232 signal and a ground
and run them to the ELT. Right?
The last time I did any RS-232 wiring was between DEC VAX computers and VT-100
terminals in the 1980s. Is there anything that I should know with regards to wiring
these more modern devices?
Thanks, -- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I?
And if not now, when?" Hillel
Message 17
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|
Subject: | Re: Is a battery contactor really needed? |
In case of an immanent forced landing or smoke in the cockpit, it is advisable
to shut off electrical power as close to the source as possible.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468357#468357
Message 18
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|
Subject: | Re: old B and C SD-8 Dynamo failure |
>>Bob, if you wanted to look at this dynamo for some reason, I'll be happy
>>to mail it to you. I suspect you've got much better things to do than
>>'paleo-forensics' on this dated item.
>>
>>Mark
>
> Actually, I would like to see it. I have
> a drive stand running that fits the SD8
> and I'm equipped to test/inspect it in
> detail. Getting a close up look at a sample
> with this kind of service on it would be
> illuminating.
>
> Send the rectifier/regulator too. I'll
> get them checked out and repaired/replaced
> as needed.
Got Mark's SD8 and R/R from the post office
today. Ran the SD8. As I would have predicted,
it runs just fine.
The construction of these machines doesn't have
much of a wear-out mode. The bearings
are VERY lightly loaded. There are no brushes
or slip rings. The stationary windings might
be a some risk for aging were they operated
at temperatures that pushed the insulation
limits on the magnet wire.
The numbers on Mr. Todd's SD8 track very
closely with those from a new, current protection
unit.
I've got some wiring details to fiddle with
before I can add the R/R to the bench setup . . .
perhaps tomorrow.
Watch this space . . .
Bob . . .
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: RS-232 GPS Input |
That clears it up. Thank you, Ralph. When I get to actually making wires,
I'll be back in touch if I am confused.
-- Art Z.
On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 5:55 PM, Ralph E. Capen <recapen@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> recapen@earthlink.net>
>
>
> Art,
>
> I may not have been clear enough...
>
> >From my reading of the ARTEX ELT manual, it needs "Aviation" from the
> 430W. It looks like you can use a single pin shielded wire (grounded at
> the 430W end) for the TX (at the 430W end) to the RX (at the ARTEX end -
> pin 9). If you have something else that already uses "Aviation", you can
> do a take-off from that port/wire - otherwise, see the next paragraph.
>
> Depending on the ADSB box, it will most likely need "ADS-B OUT+" from the
> 430W - mine did. This required me to use a different port on the 430W for
> the ADSB box. I used a single pin shielded wire (grounded at the 430W end)
> for the TX (at the 430W end) to the RX (at the ADSB end) for mine. It was
> a different port!
>
> I have already 'wasted' the troubleshooting hours figuring out why it
> wasn't working (install manual didn't call out "ADS-B OUT+" - I had to get
> that from tech support after I had already wired it the other way.
>
> I've got a picture of the 430W config if you want it - let me know and
> I'll send it direct!
>
> Hope this clears the mud I stirred up!
>
> Ralph
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Art Zemon
>
> Sent: Apr 12, 2017 6:10 PM
>
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 GPS Input
>
>
> Ralph,
> Thanks for confirming. I do intend to feed both the ADS-B and the ELT from
> the 430W. I read of lots of people just splitting the signal to feed two
> devices, which seems odd to me but then this is one-way communication so I
> guess it ought to work. And I will check my ADS-B documentation carefully
> to be sure that I get the right signal from the 430W.
> So... just a single twisted pair for these RS-232 devices? I don't need
> any of the other pins besides + and - ???Should I shield it and, if so,
> where do I ground the shield?
> -- Art Z.
>
> On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Ralph E. Capen <recapen@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> recapen@earthlink.net>
>
>
> Art,
>
> You're pretty much on the money...couple of tricks with the 430W:
>
> The 430W has multiple output ports - if you have one set to "Aviation",
> you can simply fork that output signal wire.
>
> Make sure that output port on the 430W is set to the correct output type
> ("Aviation") to match the ARTEX - the default 9600 baud rate should take
> care of it.
>
> Wiring a different port from the 430W is a PITB unless your panel has real
> good access. Configure your new port for "Aviation" and you should be good
> to go.
>
>
> I just did this to add ADSB and learned the difference between ports and
> protocols output from the 430W - I needed "ADS-B OUT+" (wasn't in the
> original manual - found out while troubleshooting with vendor) and had it
> connected to the "Aviation" port. I needed to run a separate wire just for
> this!
>
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Ralph
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> From: Art Zemon
>
>
> Sent: Apr 12, 2017 2:54 PM
>
>
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 GPS Input
>
>
> Folks,
>
> I am considering an ARTEX ELT 345 which requires a GPS signal to its
> "Built-in GPS Navigational Interface (NMEA 0183 or RS 232)." If I
> understand how to do this correctly from a Garmin GNS-430W, I just take the
> RS-232 signal and a ground and run them to the ELT. Right?
>
> The last time I did any RS-232 wiring was between DEC VAX computers and
> VT-100 terminals in the 1980s. Is there anything that I should know with
> regards to wiring these more modern devices?
>
> Thanks, -- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
Message 20
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|
Subject: | Re: RS-232 GPS Input |
Happy to help!
-----Original Message-----
From: Art Zemon
Sent: Apr 12, 2017 7:19 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 GPS Input
That clears it up. Thank you, Ralph. When I get to actually making wires, I'll
be back in touch if I am confused.
-- Art Z.
On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 5:55 PM, Ralph E. Capen <recapen@earthlink.net> wrote:
Art,
I may not have been clear enough...
>From my reading of the ARTEX ELT manual, it needs "Aviation" from the 430W. It
looks like you can use a single pin shielded wire (grounded at the 430W end)
for the TX (at the 430W end) to the RX (at the ARTEX end - pin 9). If you have
something else that already uses "Aviation", you can do a take-off from that
port/wire - otherwise, see the next paragraph.
Depending on the ADSB box, it will most likely need "ADS-B OUT+" from the 430W
- mine did. This required me to use a different port on the 430W for the ADSB
box. I used a single pin shielded wire (grounded at the 430W end) for the TX
(at the 430W end) to the RX (at the ADSB end) for mine. It was a different port!
I have already 'wasted' the troubleshooting hours figuring out why it wasn't working
(install manual didn't call out "ADS-B OUT+" - I had to get that from tech
support after I had already wired it the other way.
I've got a picture of the 430W config if you want it - let me know and I'll send
it direct!
Hope this clears the mud I stirred up!
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: Art Zemon
Sent: Apr 12, 2017 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 GPS Input
Ralph,
Thanks for confirming. I do intend to feed both the ADS-B and the ELT from the
430W. I read of lots of people just splitting the signal to feed two devices,
which seems odd to me but then this is one-way communication so I guess it ought
to work. And I will check my ADS-B documentation carefully to be sure that
I get the right signal from the 430W.
So... just a single twisted pair for these RS-232 devices? I don't need any of
the other pins besides + and - ???Should I shield it and, if so, where do I ground
the shield?
-- Art Z.
On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Ralph E. Capen <recapen@earthlink.net> wrote:
Art,
You're pretty much on the money...couple of tricks with the 430W:
The 430W has multiple output ports - if you have one set to "Aviation", you can
simply fork that output signal wire.
Make sure that output port on the 430W is set to the correct output type ("Aviation")
to match the ARTEX - the default 9600 baud rate should take care of it.
Wiring a different port from the 430W is a PITB unless your panel has real good
access. Configure your new port for "Aviation" and you should be good to go.
I just did this to add ADSB and learned the difference between ports and protocols
output from the 430W - I needed "ADS-B OUT+" (wasn't in the original manual
- found out while troubleshooting with vendor) and had it connected to the "Aviation"
port. I needed to run a separate wire just for this!
Good Luck,
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: Art Zemon
Sent: Apr 12, 2017 2:54 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 GPS Input
Folks,
I am considering an ARTEX ELT 345 which requires a GPS signal to its "Built-in
GPS Navigational Interface (NMEA 0183 or RS 232)." If I understand how to do this
correctly from a Garmin GNS-430W, I just take the RS-232 signal and a ground
and run them to the ELT. Right?
The last time I did any RS-232 wiring was between DEC VAX computers and VT-100
terminals in the 1980s. Is there anything that I should know with regards to wiring
these more modern devices?
Thanks, -- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I?
And if not now, when?" Hillel
Message 21
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|
Subject: | Re: RS-232 GPS Input |
It might be worth mentioning that the electrons have to get back home,
even if it's only signal data. If you float the shield on one end, then
the return path is the airframe. *If* it's a metal airplane, and both of
the devices are grounded to the airframe.
So that idea may work fine in an aluminum or steel tube a/c, but in a
Velocity/Lancair/etc, not so much. And even in a metal a/c, it *could*
leave the signal vulnerable to noise on the ground side of the circuit.
There's a lot of myth & metaphysics parading as universal truth around
shields and grounding. (Pardon the pun...)
Charlie
On 4/12/2017 6:19 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
> That clears it up. Thank you, Ralph. When I get to actually making
> wires, I'll be back in touch if I am confused.
>
> -- Art Z.
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 5:55 PM, Ralph E. Capen <recapen@earthlink.net
> <mailto:recapen@earthlink.net>> wrote:
>
> <recapen@earthlink.net <mailto:recapen@earthlink.net>>
>
>
> Art,
>
> I may not have been clear enough...
>
> >From my reading of the ARTEX ELT manual, it needs "Aviation" from
> the 430W. It looks like you can use a single pin shielded wire
> (grounded at the 430W end) for the TX (at the 430W end) to the RX
> (at the ARTEX end - pin 9). If you have something else that
> already uses "Aviation", you can do a take-off from that port/wire
> - otherwise, see the next paragraph.
>
> Depending on the ADSB box, it will most likely need "ADS-B OUT+"
> from the 430W - mine did. This required me to use a different
> port on the 430W for the ADSB box. I used a single pin shielded
> wire (grounded at the 430W end) for the TX (at the 430W end) to
> the RX (at the ADSB end) for mine. It was a different port!
>
> I have already 'wasted' the troubleshooting hours figuring out why
> it wasn't working (install manual didn't call out "ADS-B OUT+" - I
> had to get that from tech support after I had already wired it the
> other way.
>
> I've got a picture of the 430W config if you want it - let me know
> and I'll send it direct!
>
> Hope this clears the mud I stirred up!
>
> Ralph
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Art Zemon
>
> Sent: Apr 12, 2017 6:10 PM
>
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 GPS Input
>
>
> Ralph,
> Thanks for confirming. I do intend to feed both the ADS-B and the
> ELT from the 430W. I read of lots of people just splitting the
> signal to feed two devices, which seems odd to me but then this is
> one-way communication so I guess it ought to work. And I will
> check my ADS-B documentation carefully to be sure that I get the
> right signal from the 430W.
> So... just a single twisted pair for these RS-232 devices? I don't
> need any of the other pins besides + and - ???Should I shield it
> and, if so, where do I ground the shield?
> -- Art Z.
>
> On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Ralph E. Capen
> <recapen@earthlink.net <mailto:recapen@earthlink.net>> wrote:
> <recapen@earthlink.net <mailto:recapen@earthlink.net>>
>
>
> Art,
>
> You're pretty much on the money...couple of tricks with the 430W:
>
> The 430W has multiple output ports - if you have one set to
> "Aviation", you can simply fork that output signal wire.
>
> Make sure that output port on the 430W is set to the correct
> output type ("Aviation") to match the ARTEX - the default 9600
> baud rate should take care of it.
>
> Wiring a different port from the 430W is a PITB unless your panel
> has real good access. Configure your new port for "Aviation" and
> you should be good to go.
>
>
> I just did this to add ADSB and learned the difference between
> ports and protocols output from the 430W - I needed "ADS-B OUT+"
> (wasn't in the original manual - found out while troubleshooting
> with vendor) and had it connected to the "Aviation" port. I
> needed to run a separate wire just for this!
>
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Ralph
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> From: Art Zemon
>
>
> Sent: Apr 12, 2017 2:54 PM
>
>
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>
>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 GPS Input
>
>
> Folks,
>
> I am considering an ARTEX ELT 345 which requires a GPS signal to
> its "Built-in GPS Navigational Interface (NMEA 0183 or RS 232)."
> If I understand how to do this correctly from a Garmin GNS-430W, I
> just take the RS-232 signal and a ground and run them to the ELT.
> Right?
>
> The last time I did any RS-232 wiring was between DEC VAX
> computers and VT-100 terminals in the 1980s. Is there anything
> that I should know with regards to wiring these more modern devices?
>
> Thanks, -- Art Z.
>
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> /"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself,
> what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel/
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Message 22
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|
Subject: | Re: RS-232 GPS Input |
Good point - I was only considering a metal frame! If bonding is a part of the
builder scenario, the return path becomes an actual requirement - which can be
satisfied in a number of ways!
The documents for the ARTEX make a similar consideration as well.....
-----Original Message-----
From: Charlie England
Sent: Apr 12, 2017 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 GPS Input
It might be worth mentioning that the
electrons have to get back home, even if it's only signal data. If
you float the shield on one end, then the return path is the
airframe. *If* it's a metal airplane, and both of the devices are
grounded to the airframe.
So that idea may work fine in an aluminum or steel tube a/c, but
in a Velocity/Lancair/etc, not so much. And even in a metal a/c,
it *could* leave the signal vulnerable to noise on the ground side
of the circuit.
There's a lot of myth & metaphysics parading as universal
truth around shields and grounding. (Pardon the pun...)
Charlie
On 4/12/2017 6:19 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
That clears it up. Thank you, Ralph. When I get to
actually making wires, I'll be back in touch if I am confused.
-- Art Z.
On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 5:55 PM,
Ralph E. Capen <recapen@earthlink.net>
wrote:
"Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
Art,
I may not have been clear enough...
>From my reading of the ARTEX ELT manual, it needs
"Aviation" from the 430W. It looks like you can use a
single pin shielded wire (grounded at the 430W end) for
the TX (at the 430W end) to the RX (at the ARTEX end - pin
9). If you have something else that already uses
"Aviation", you can do a take-off from that port/wire -
otherwise, see the next paragraph.
Depending on the ADSB box, it will most likely need "ADS-B
OUT+" from the 430W - mine did. This required me to use a
different port on the 430W for the ADSB box. I used a
single pin shielded wire (grounded at the 430W end) for
the TX (at the 430W end) to the RX (at the ADSB end) for
mine. It was a different port!
I have already 'wasted' the troubleshooting hours figuring
out why it wasn't working (install manual didn't call out
"ADS-B OUT+" - I had to get that from tech support after I
had already wired it the other way.
I've got a picture of the 430W config if you want it - let
me know and I'll send it direct!
Hope this clears the mud I stirred up!
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: Art Zemon
Sent: Apr 12, 2017 6:10 PM
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 GPS Input
Ralph,
Thanks for confirming. I do intend to feed both the
ADS-B and the ELT from the 430W. I read of lots of
people just splitting the signal to feed two devices,
which seems odd to me but then this is one-way
communication so I guess it ought to work. And I will
check my ADS-B documentation carefully to be sure that I
get the right signal from the 430W.
So... just a single twisted pair for these RS-232
devices? I don't need any of the other pins besides + and
- ???Should I shield it and, if so, where do I ground the
shield?
-- Art Z.
On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Ralph E. Capen <recapen@earthlink.net>
wrote:
Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
Art,
You're pretty much on the money...couple of tricks with
the 430W:
The 430W has multiple output ports - if you have one set
to "Aviation", you can simply fork that output signal
wire.
Make sure that output port on the 430W is set to the
correct output type ("Aviation") to match the ARTEX -
the default 9600 baud rate should take care of it.
Wiring a different port from the 430W is a PITB unless
your panel has real good access. Configure your new
port for "Aviation" and you should be good to go.
I just did this to add ADSB and learned the difference
between ports and protocols output from the 430W - I
needed "ADS-B OUT+" (wasn't in the original manual -
found out while troubleshooting with vendor) and had it
connected to the "Aviation" port. I needed to run a
separate wire just for this!
Good Luck,
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: Art Zemon
Sent: Apr 12, 2017 2:54 PM
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 GPS Input
Folks,
I am considering an ARTEX ELT 345 which requires a GPS
signal to its "Built-in GPS Navigational Interface (NMEA
0183 or RS 232)." If I understand how to do this
correctly from a Garmin GNS-430W, I just take the RS-232
signal and a ground and run them to the ELT. Right?
The last time I did any RS-232 wiring was between DEC
VAX computers and VT-100 terminals in the 1980s. Is
there anything that I should know with regards to wiring
these more modern devices?
Thanks, -- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
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I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only
for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
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