Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:18 AM - Re: Smallest possible slip-ball ? (GTH)
2. 07:06 AM - Battery Charger/Analyzer (speedy11@aol.com)
3. 07:20 AM - Re: Re: Overvoltage event (non-lithium battery) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 07:37 AM - Re: Switches and Breakers (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 10:33 AM - Re: Overvoltage event (non-lithium battery) (user9253)
6. 05:52 PM - Re: Re: Overvoltage event (non-lithium battery) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 06:31 PM - Re: Re: Overvoltage event (non-lithium battery) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 07:09 PM - Re: Overvoltage event (non-lithium battery) (user9253)
9. 09:31 PM - Re: Switches and Breakers (Efraim Otero)
10. 10:11 PM - Re: Switches and Breakers (William Hunter)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Smallest possible slip-ball ? |
Le 05/05/2017 22:15, jim@PoogieBearRanch.com a crit :
>
> I don't think that inclinometer necessarily HAS to be installed on the
> artificial horizon - it would just require two tiny screws to mount
> anywhere on the panel.
>
Jim and all,
Good point, thanks !
I'm passing on the info.
Thanks to everyone,
--
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr
Message 2
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| Subject: | Battery Charger/Analyzer |
FYI - government surplus battery charger/analyzer for sale at govdeals.com.
You may have to register to view it. Bid starts at $50. Closes on 5-15-17. Located
at Purdue U in Indiana.
Here is the link - https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemID=1214&acctid=3844
Designed for rapid, automatic charging and analyzing of 11, 19, 20, and 22 cell,
sintered vented type nickel- cadmium batteries.
208/230v, single phase, 50/60 Hz, 23 amperes.
Approximate dimensions: 18"W x 19.75"D x 11.75"T. 150 pounds.
Stan Sutterfield
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Overvoltage event (non-lithium battery) |
At 12:17 PM 5/5/2017, you wrote:
><bobmeyers@meyersfamily.org>
>
>Bob,
>
>Have you ever commented on these little guys. They are resettable
>breakers that fit into an ATC slot.
>
>http://tinyurl.com/n4fem4d
>
>I used fuses in my first build and also in my second build. I have
>looked at these as a natural fit for alternator field power.
>
>
The narrative that goes with this product is
interesting . . .
Low profile ATO / ATC circuit breakers are single pole thermal
overload type circuit protection devices. They can be used in many
automotive, marine, and industrial applications. Low profile breakers
are ideal when space is limited and for replacing fuses on your
critical accessories. Commonly considered a type-3 thermal breaker,
these can fit into most ATO / ATC fuse panels. Each breaker is
color-coded by amperage according to automotive industry standards.
Anyone who has conducted an FMEA on their
'critical accessories' knows that there are
many more failure modes that DO NOT open
the breaker than failure modes that DO
open the breaker. They should also know
that an open breaker probably announces
a fault that will not be cured by resetting
the breaker.
Suitability to task upstream of a crowbar
ov module is not clear. The miniature
breakers common to aircraft installations
are tested for ability to open multiple
'hard faults'. Here's one example of a
breaker not suited to the task as discovered
by a builder here on the List . . .
http://tinyurl.com/mqjz523
I cannot offer a learned opinion without
further evaluation and testing of this product's
construction. Another point in the list of
design goals says that using this breaker
in the crowbar ov system encourages positioning
the fuse panel in reach of crew during flight . . .
another practice which I discourage. See:
http://tinyurl.com/lvwnwkx
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Switches and Breakers |
At 09:48 AM 5/5/2017, you wrote:
>The plane is a Twin Commander with TPE 331-10s. The specific
>failure is the 50% speed switch. There are 4 or 5 operational
>items that happened at that time. If any one of them fail the
>ignition indication will remain on. Resetting the breaker will
>reset all of the thing that happen at 50%. Interestingly enough
>this procedure was "Tribal Knowledge" on my model, the next model
>the procedure was documented in the POH.
Hmmmm . . . yeah, there are probably dozens
of examples for what my bosses would have called
a 'work around' for relatively minor deficiencies
in system FEMA.
The condition you cited was probably not discovered
before the system was holy-watered for production.
As a general rule on new designs, we were chartered
not to rely on crew management of input power by
cycling power to a bus or pulling a breaker.
To be sure, there have been instances
where the practice did find its way into
the cockpit but the work around could only be
applied in low pucker-factor situations.
Finding and operating the right breaker in a
sea of little black knobs with lights flashing,
bells going off or captain giving tense orders
was problematic at best. We just didn't do
it.
On our airplanes, such a condition is EASY to
fix . . . on airplanes with TCs . . . not so much.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Overvoltage event (non-lithium battery) |
Speaking of some circuit breakers that are not suitable to the task, I can vouch
for that. I purchased a Schurter 3 amp circuit breaker, part number
4400.0010 to protect an over-voltage relay circuit. Before installing it in the
airplane, I tried it out on the workbench. Instead of tripping when the crowbar
circuit shorted out, the breaker continued to conduct and smoked. Although
the smoke was not enough to be a hazard, it could be enough to distract a pilot
and contribute to an incident.
I have a whole lot more confidence in fuses.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469063#469063
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Overvoltage event (non-lithium battery) |
At 12:31 PM 5/6/2017, you wrote:
>
>Speaking of some circuit breakers that are not suitable to the task,
>I can vouch for that. I purchased a Schurter 3 amp circuit breaker,
>part number
>4400.0010 to protect an over-voltage relay circuit. Before
>installing it in the airplane, I tried it out on the
>workbench. Instead of tripping when the crowbar circuit shorted
>out, the breaker continued to conduct and smoked. Although the
>smoke was not enough to be a hazard, it could be enough to distract
>a pilot and contribute to an incident.
> I have a whole lot more confidence in fuses.
To be sure, fuses have a certain finality in
the physics of their operation. Breakers can
too . . .
Some of you graybeards here on the List may
recall some terse discussions about the various
breaker options . . . especially when used
with crowbar ov protection.
Some off-hand numbers were offered a dire
predictions for failure-to-perform under
extreme fault conditions. I did some bench
demonstrations that measured much more
benign conditions than 'predicted' along
with citations from a military test
protocol by which our favorite breakers
are judged.
Emacs!
These guys are tested under conditions far more
severe than those impressed upon it with
a crowbar ov protection system.
Beech agreed with this assessment too . . . a
few years back. I very nearly got crowbar ov
protection onto the Beech Lightning, a single
engine turboprop. Program go canceled about
the same time Burt Rutan left the employ of
Beech as VP of Engineering. He got the airplane
as part of his severance pay. I understand he
wanted the engine and instruments.
Emacs!
I last saw the 'bones' of this project sitting outside
one of Burt's hangars on Mojave Airport. I had left
the employ of Electro-Mech by that time. I was no
longer involved in new alternator controller designs
for TC aircraft. I didn't get a chance to put
crowbar ov protection into airplanes until the series
of LR controllers at B&C. Two examples of which went
around the world with Dick and Jeana . . . and
now flys on thousands of both TC and OBAM aircraft.
But in any case, demands placed on the breaker
used with crowbar ov protection are beyond the
capability of some products. Fortunately, the
commercial clone of the military qualified
miniature breakers are quite suited to task.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Overvoltage event (non-lithium battery) |
At 12:31 PM 5/6/2017, you wrote:
>
>Speaking of some circuit breakers that are not suitable to the task,
>I can vouch for that. I purchased a Schurter 3 amp circuit breaker,
>part number
>4400.0010 to protect an over-voltage relay circuit. Before
>installing it in the airplane, I tried it out on the
>workbench. Instead of tripping when the crowbar circuit shorted
>out, the breaker continued to conduct and smoked.
Was it you who sent me this breaker?
Emacs!
I think it's a Schurter breaker. Uses a thin metal
'heater' to warm a bi-metal trip 'thermostat'. High
current faults would burn the strip before the thermostat
could sense and react.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Overvoltage event (non-lithium battery) |
It could have been me. My memory fades as I get older.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469070#469070
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Switches and Breakers |
Neal:
Wouldn't that be
OBAMA?
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 5, 2017, at 3:31 PM, Neal George <ngeorge@cmg.aero> wrote:
>
>
> OBAM
> Owner Build And Maintained aircraft
>
> neal
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim@PoogieBearRanch.com
> Sent: Friday, May 05, 2017 3:15 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Switches and Breakers
>
>
> OK - I give up.
>
> I cannot find the meaning of "OBAM" anywhere, but I see it used frequently in
this list. What does it mean?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Jim Parker
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Switches and Breakers
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
> Date: Fri, May 05, 2017 6:39 am
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>
> At 08:36 PM 5/4/2017, you wrote:
> I agree in spirit, BUT I recently ran into an issue where the procedure for
handling an ignition system failure indication, is to pull the ignition system
breaker while the engine is running. This is not a situation where the manufacture
and myself would not want a switch.
> "Failure indications" are not normal
> operations . . . and yes, crew are
> sometimes advised to pull breakers
> for duration of flight as response to
> a failure; implementing Plan-B for
> comfortable termination of flight.
>
> But I'm curious as to the design of
> any ignition system that is not effectively
> shut down by simply turning it off.
> Was the pulling of a breaker intended
> to 'reset' the failure or was the
> breaker pulled to prevent a malfunctioning
> ignition from causing more mischief
> even tho it was commanded OFF by normal
> positioning of controls?
>
> I'm aware of no electronic ignition
> system offered to the OBAM aviation
> market that would require such an
> action . . . setting the panel control
> to OFF does what the label implies.
>
> Do you recall what make/model of ignition
> system suggested this procedure? Was
> it to 'reset' the light or simply
> disable the system for duration
> of the flight?
>
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Switches and Breakers |
> Wouldn't that be OBAMA?
Chirp...chirp...chirp...no response to your joke for some reason Neal...
Ouch...folks are still sore I guess...
: ) < ------ CJII (Cyber Joke Indicator Icon)
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Efraim Otero
Sent: Saturday, May 6, 2017 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switches and Breakers
--> <efraim.otero@gmail.com>
Neal:
Wouldn't that be
OBAMA?
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 5, 2017, at 3:31 PM, Neal George <ngeorge@cmg.aero> wrote:
>
> --> <ngeorge@cmg.aero>
>
> OBAM
> Owner Build And Maintained aircraft
>
> neal
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> jim@PoogieBearRanch.com
> Sent: Friday, May 05, 2017 3:15 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Switches and Breakers
>
>
> OK - I give up.
>
> I cannot find the meaning of "OBAM" anywhere, but I see it used frequently in
this list. What does it mean?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Jim Parker
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Switches and Breakers
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
> Date: Fri, May 05, 2017 6:39 am
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>
> At 08:36 PM 5/4/2017, you wrote:
> I agree in spirit, BUT I recently ran into an issue where the procedure for
handling an ignition system failure indication, is to pull the ignition system
breaker while the engine is running. This is not a situation where the manufacture
and myself would not want a switch.
> "Failure indications" are not normal
> operations . . . and yes, crew are
> sometimes advised to pull breakers
> for duration of flight as response to
> a failure; implementing Plan-B for
> comfortable termination of flight.
>
> But I'm curious as to the design of
> any ignition system that is not effectively
> shut down by simply turning it off.
> Was the pulling of a breaker intended
> to 'reset' the failure or was the
> breaker pulled to prevent a malfunctioning
> ignition from causing more mischief
> even tho it was commanded OFF by normal
> positioning of controls?
>
> I'm aware of no electronic ignition
> system offered to the OBAM aviation
> market that would require such an
> action . . . setting the panel control
> to OFF does what the label implies.
>
> Do you recall what make/model of ignition
> system suggested this procedure? Was
> it to 'reset' the light or simply
> disable the system for duration
> of the flight?
>
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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