---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/13/17: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:02 AM - RV-8 wiring diagram (tnikkel) 2. 05:10 AM - Re: Multiplexer or new antenna (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 06:18 AM - Re: Multiplexer or new antenna (Kelly McMullen) 4. 07:32 AM - Re: RV-8 wiring diagram (user9253) 5. 12:34 PM - MP100701 Open Collector To Ground Position Sensor (William Hunter) 6. 03:07 PM - Re: MP100701 Open Collector To Ground Position Sensor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 03:27 PM - Re: MP100701 Open Collector To Ground Position Sensor (Charlie England) 8. 07:15 PM - Re: MP100701 Open Collector To Ground Position Sensor (user9253) 9. 08:02 PM - Re: MP100701 Open Collector To Ground Position Sensor (William Hunter) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:23 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: RV-8 wiring diagram From: "tnikkel" Current starting the wiring on the RV-8 I am building. Attached is the diagram for the main power and charging system. I would like a second opinion to make sure I have not made a mistake. Ignore the avionics bus that's planning for the future if I ever add that. The wiring from the circuit breakers is all sized properly. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470036#470036 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/n285ts_power_189.bmp ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:10:38 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Multiplexer or new antenna At 11:25 PM 6/12/2017, you wrote: >Thanks Kelly. >Follow up question... I can put a second comm antenna about 3 feet >from the existing antenna, but that will place it about 1 foot from >the transponder antenna. >Would that be OK since the transponder is so much higher freq? > >Jeff If it is a problem, the difficulty will manifest in misbehaviors by the comm radio. You may hear a burst of 'buzz' every time the reply light comes on. Baring that, proximity to the antenna should not be a problem. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:23 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Multiplexer or new antenna From: Kelly McMullen I would rather see you get the separation by putting a com antenna under a wing. It may be okay, but what is backup plan if it doesn't work and you have a hole to patch in the fuselage? It is much easier to make an inspection plate mounting that can be discarded if you don't like the results. On 6/13/2017 5:09 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > At 11:25 PM 6/12/2017, you wrote: >> Thanks Kelly. >> Follow up question... I can put a second comm antenna about 3 feet >> from the existing antenna, but that will place it about 1 foot from >> the transponder antenna. >> Would that be OK since the transponder is so much higher freq? >> >> Jeff > > If it is a problem, the difficulty will manifest in > misbehaviors by the comm radio. You may hear a burst > of 'buzz' every time the reply light comes on. Baring > that, proximity to the antenna should not be a problem. > > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:32 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: RV-8 wiring diagram From: "user9253" It seems that some of the feeders are larger than necessary and could be smaller by one or two wire sizes. Can the main power bus feeder be smaller? Can the E-Bus feeder be smaller? The E-Bus bridge diode only needs one wire feeding it, not two. If the E-Bus switch is inadvertently left on during engine start, the aux battery will help crank the engine and could trip its circuit breaker. That problem can be eliminated by connecting the output of the E-Bus relay to one of the inputs of the bridge diode. Having an engine start button on the control stick could be dangerous. Is it really necessary? An avionics switch is a single point of failure. Evidently it happened in Ron Simonton's RV. Read his post: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=1167360&postcount=7 -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470046#470046 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:34:34 PM PST US From: "William Hunter" Subject: AeroElectric-List: MP100701 Open Collector To Ground Position Sensor Hi All, Sorry to keep bugging you all on this topic however this is a bit over my head and you are the smartest guys in the (cyber) room and I would greatly appreciate your comments/feedback/suggestions (again). Attached is a PDF data sheet of a sensor I think will work for my application. Could someone PLEASE look it over and tell me IF this sensor will work with my application? I like this particular sensor because it is the right dimensions (length and width) for my application (I have VERY LIMITED space) and this sensor is an open collector to ground that I need for the Dynon Skyview EMS=85plus it is only 15 bucks!!! The questions I have are: -The data sheet states =93Open Collector (NPN) output can be used with bipolar or cmos logic circuits with suitable pull up resistor=94. I do not know what this means. I want to have one of my Dynon Skyview EMS pins watch for ground on a wire. If the pin does not see ground then the display annunciation will be dark however when the pin sees a connection to ground then the EFIS display will annunciate an =93ICE=94 warning (it has to look for ground because I need to share this EFIS input pin with the Dynon AOA/Pitot tube heater system monitor wire. This monitor wire is open when the pitot heater system is working correctly however when the pitot heater system fails, the system connects this monitor wire to ground). -This sensor has three wires: Brown =93VCC=94, Blue =93ground=94, and Black =93output=94. I assume the Brown wire needs to have a 5 to 12 VDC power source and the Black wire would go to my EFIS pin? -I see where the =93pull up resistor=94 is supposed to be installed however I do not know what value resistor to use or if it is required. -If the sensor relies on the magnetic attraction of the target magnet and the target magnet moves away because it is mounted on the door however still attached to the air box structure is a second magnet that is located only =BD inch next to the sensor, will that second magnet effect the operation of the switch? -I want to use the Dynon Skyview PIN 18 as the power source for this sensor. PIN 18 is a 5 VDC power source that is output limited to 300 mA. I am already using that pin to power a McLagan Enterprises CS-6AB current sensor so I do not want to overtax the 300 mA output rating of the pin. Does anyone know what the current draw of the CS-6AB (it cannot be much) A recap on the project=85I built an air filter box out of fiberglass and it has a reed type valve alternate air that is made from fiberglass and is held closed by a fiberglass spring and two magnets (one on the door and one in the fiberglass air box structure). The design is such that should the big air filter become iced up the engine vacuum will pull against the door=92s spring and the two magnets and open the door (one magnet will ride away because it is mounted on the door while the second magnet will stay attached to the air box structure). I want to monitor the position of the door with the Dynon EFIS pin input. .. THANKS AGAIN and I am VERY GRATEFUL for the help!!! Bill Hunter ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:07:13 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: MP100701 Open Collector To Ground Position Sensor Attached is a PDF data sheet of a sensor I think will work for my application. Could someone PLEASE look it over and tell me IF this sensor will work with my application? I'm sure it will . . . I like this particular sensor because it is the right dimensions (length and width) for my application (I have VERY LIMITED space) and this sensor is an open collector to ground that I need for the Dynon Skyview EMS=85plus it is only 15 bucks!!! . . . ain't 'lectronics wunderful? The questions I have are: -The data sheet states =93Open Collector (NPN) output can be used with bipolar or cmos logic circuits with suitable pull up resistor=94. I do not know what this means. I want to have one of my Dynon Skyview EMS pins watch for ground on a wire. If the pin does not see ground then the display annunciation will be dark however when the pin sees a connection to ground then the EFIS display will annunciate an =93ICE=94 warning (it has to look for ground because I need to share this EFIS input pin with the Dynon AOA/Pitot tube heater system monitor wire. This monitor wire is open when the pitot heater system is working correctly however when the pitot heater system fails, the system connects this monitor wire to ground). If the Dynon will sense a dry switch, then some form of pull-up resistor is included within the Dynon's signal conditioning. This makes your open-collector sensor ideal to task . . . no additional electronics required. -This sensor has three wires: Brown =93VCC=94, Blue =93ground=94, and Black =93output=94. I assume the Brown wire needs to have a 5 to 12 VDC power source and the Black wire would go to my EFIS pin? That would be my interpretation as well. -I see where the =93pull up resistor=94 is supposed to be installed however I do not know what value resistor to use or if it is required. Not reqd. -If the sensor relies on the magnetic attraction of the target magnet and the target magnet moves away because it is mounted on the door however still attached to the air box structure is a second magnet that is located only =BD inch next to the sensor, will that second magnet effect the operation of the switch? Maybe . . . easy to check on the bench. No way to increase that separation? -I want to use the Dynon Skyview PIN 18 as the power source for this sensor. PIN 18 is a 5 VDC power source that is output limited to 300 mA. I am already using that pin to power a McLagan Enterprises CS-6AB current sensor so I do not want to overtax the 300 mA output rating of the pin. Does anyone know what the current draw of the CS-6AB (it cannot be much) . . . it seems unlikely that a 'sensor' would need more than a handful of milliamps. I think the risk is low. A recap on the project=85I built an air filter box out of fiberglass and it has a reed type valve alternate air that is made from fiberglass and is held closed by a fiberglass spring and two magnets (one on the door and one in the fiberglass air box structure). The design is such that should the big air filter become iced up the engine vacuum will pull against the door=92s spring and the two magnets and open the door (one magnet will ride away because it is mounted on the door while the second magnet will stay attached to the air box structure). I want to monitor the position of the door with the Dynon EFIS pin input. I think you're on the right track. Some fiddling with the proposed magnets on the bench should assuage concerns for untoward interactions. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:27:15 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: MP100701 Open Collector To Ground Position Sensor On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 2:33 PM, William Hunter wrote: > Hi All, > > > Sorry to keep bugging you all on this topic however this is a bit over my > head and you are the smartest guys in the (cyber) room and I would greatl y > appreciate your comments/feedback/suggestions (again). > > > Attached is a PDF data sheet of a sensor I think will work for my > application. Could someone PLEASE look it over and tell me IF this senso r > will work with my application? > > > I like this particular sensor because it is the right dimensions (length > and width) for my application (I have VERY LIMITED space) and this sensor > is an open collector to ground that I need for the Dynon Skyview EMS plus > it is only 15 bucks!!! > > > The questions I have are: > > > -The data sheet states =9COpen Collector (NPN) output can be used w ith > bipolar or cmos logic circuits with suitable pull up resistor=9D. I do not > know what this means. I want to have one of my Dynon Skyview EMS pins > watch for ground on a wire. If the pin does not see ground then the > display annunciation will be dark however when the pin sees a connection to > ground then the EFIS display will annunciate an =9CICE=9D war ning (it has to > look for ground because I need to share this EFIS input pin with the Dyno n > AOA/Pitot tube heater system monitor wire. This monitor wire is open whe n > the pitot heater system is working correctly however when the pitot heate r > system fails, the system connects this monitor wire to ground). > > > -This sensor has three wires: Brown =9CVCC=9D, Blue =9C ground=9D, and Black > =9Coutput=9D. I assume the Brown wire needs to have a 5 to 1 2 VDC power source > and the Black wire would go to my EFIS pin? > > > -I see where the =9Cpull up resistor=9D is supposed to be ins talled however I > do not know what value resistor to use or if it is required. > > > -If the sensor relies on the magnetic attraction of the target magnet and > the target magnet moves away because it is mounted on the door however > still attached to the air box structure is a second magnet that is locate d > only =C2=BD inch next to the sensor, will that second magnet effect the > operation of the switch? > > > -I want to use the Dynon Skyview PIN 18 as the power source for this > sensor. PIN 18 is a 5 VDC power source that is output limited to 300 mA. > I am already using that pin to power a McLagan Enterprises CS-6AB current > sensor so I do not want to overtax the 300 mA output rating of the pin. > Does anyone know what the current draw of the CS-6AB (it cannot be much) > > > A recap on the projectI built an air filter box out of fiberglas s and it > has a reed type valve alternate air that is made from fiberglass and is > held closed by a fiberglass spring and two magnets (one on the door and o ne > in the fiberglass air box structure). The design is such that should the > big air filter become iced up the engine vacuum will pull against the > door=99s spring and the two magnets and open the door (one magnet w ill ride > away because it is mounted on the door while the second magnet will stay > attached to the air box structure). I want to monitor the position of th e > door with the Dynon EFIS pin input. > > .. > > > THANKS AGAIN and I am VERY GRATEFUL for the help!!! > > > Bill Hunter > > Bill, The pullup resistor is shown on that data sheet, in the schematic, which also shows all the wire connections to make it work. It should do what you want, but it's not that much smaller than many of the devices I sent earlier. It would save you (and us) a lot of time if you spell out all of your requirements, including size (dimensions) in your initial question. If you really need small, try this: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/MEDER-electronic-Standex/KSK-1C90U-1015 /?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvFdY0L2HfHxsLmHWXxOk2BtXfBXWgtRX0%3d or use the google to search for 'form C reed switch'. No electronics, just a single pole, double throw magnetically activated switch (electrically, it looks just like a SPDT toggle switch). The one I linked is 'bare' and could be easily fit into a 3/8" diameter by 1" long space. Couple more thoughts. Do you really need two magnets? Have you checked whether the engine can actually overcome the magnets, if the inlet is blocked? (Many newer magnets are quite powerful.) If you use a long narrow magnet & just a piece of steel on the stationary side, you could probably use the same magnet to hold the door shut and activate the reed switch (mounted away from the steel, toward the other pole of the magnet). Charlie ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:49 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: MP100701 Open Collector To Ground Position Sensor From: "user9253" The SkyView EMS has at least 9 general purpose inputs. If all of them are not already being used, then I suggest that the magnetic sensor be connected to its own discrete EMS input instead of sharing an input with the pitot heat sensor. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470075#470075 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:25 PM PST US From: William Hunter Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: MP100701 Open Collector To Ground Position Sensor Thanks Bob and Charlie!!! > Do you really need two magnets? Have you checked whether the engine can actually overcome the magnets, if the inlet is blocked? (Many newer magnets are quite powerful.) If you use a long narrow magnet & just a piece of steel on the stationary side, you could probably use the same magnet to hold the door shut and activate the reed switch (mounted away from the steel, toward the other pole of the magnet). This design is not exactly in BETA test at this point... perhaps more like Charlie minus testing and the plan has changed a bit (I'm sure that I am the only one in Aviation that has had design creep and concept validation issues). I really do not know how strong the magnets need to be... I know...the size of the flapper door... the size of the main filter... the engine is 540 CID...I know that I want the door to stay closed until the air filter gets blocked just a smidgen and then I want the flapper to pop fully open... the indicator light will help decide how large the magnets need to be. So... I just replaced my worn out electric sonic toothbrush and whilst conducting the R&R procedure the two brush heads whacked together on the counter top and got stuck together on the magnet ends and just like magic I had a "hey what if..." moment. These magnets are like really... REALLY small and if I place them on one corner of the door (one magnet on the door and one on the air box structure) then there will be about 2.5 inches of distance to the adjacent corner where the magic switch can be installed... then perhaps there will be enough distance to reduce any magnetic interference. I will buy this sensor and conduct some fiddling around and report back. Also... the original plan was to have the Dynon heater sensor on one EMS sensor pin and the flapper door gizmo on a different pin until I ran out of pins. Then you all suggested this fancy proximity sensor and I figured that I could combine both ice related contraptions on a single pin and since the Dynon sensor is a sink to ground I need a switch gizmo that will also sink to ground... Anyhoo.. THANKS AGAIN. It will be a couple of weeks before I can report back. Bill On Jun 13, 2017 6:31 PM, "Charlie England" wrote: > > > On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 2:33 PM, William Hunter < > billhuntersemail@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> >> >> Sorry to keep bugging you all on this topic however this is a bit over m y >> head and you are the smartest guys in the (cyber) room and I would great ly >> appreciate your comments/feedback/suggestions (again). >> >> >> >> Attached is a PDF data sheet of a sensor I think will work for my >> application. Could someone PLEASE look it over and tell me IF this sens or >> will work with my application? >> >> >> >> I like this particular sensor because it is the right dimensions (length >> and width) for my application (I have VERY LIMITED space) and this senso r >> is an open collector to ground that I need for the Dynon Skyview EMS plus >> it is only 15 bucks!!! >> >> >> >> >> >> The questions I have are: >> >> >> >> -The data sheet states =9COpen Collector (NPN) output can be used with >> bipolar or cmos logic circuits with suitable pull up resistor=9D. I do not >> know what this means. I want to have one of my Dynon Skyview EMS pins >> watch for ground on a wire. If the pin does not see ground then the >> display annunciation will be dark however when the pin sees a connection to >> ground then the EFIS display will annunciate an =9CICE=9D wa rning (it has to >> look for ground because I need to share this EFIS input pin with the Dyn on >> AOA/Pitot tube heater system monitor wire. This monitor wire is open wh en >> the pitot heater system is working correctly however when the pitot heat er >> system fails, the system connects this monitor wire to ground). >> >> >> >> -This sensor has three wires: Brown =9CVCC=9D, Blue =9Cground=9D, and Black >> =9Coutput=9D. I assume the Brown wire needs to have a 5 to 12 VDC power source >> and the Black wire would go to my EFIS pin? >> >> >> >> -I see where the =9Cpull up resistor=9D is supposed to be in stalled however I >> do not know what value resistor to use or if it is required. >> >> >> >> -If the sensor relies on the magnetic attraction of the target magnet an d >> the target magnet moves away because it is mounted on the door however >> still attached to the air box structure is a second magnet that is locat ed >> only =C2=BD inch next to the sensor, will that second magnet effect the >> operation of the switch? >> >> >> >> -I want to use the Dynon Skyview PIN 18 as the power source for this >> sensor. PIN 18 is a 5 VDC power source that is output limited to 300 mA .. >> I am already using that pin to power a McLagan Enterprises CS-6AB curren t >> sensor so I do not want to overtax the 300 mA output rating of the pin. >> Does anyone know what the current draw of the CS-6AB (it cannot be much) >> >> >> >> A recap on the projectI built an air filter box out of fibergla ss and it >> has a reed type valve alternate air that is made from fiberglass and is >> held closed by a fiberglass spring and two magnets (one on the door and one >> in the fiberglass air box structure). The design is such that should th e >> big air filter become iced up the engine vacuum will pull against the >> door=99s spring and the two magnets and open the door (one magnet will ride >> away because it is mounted on the door while the second magnet will stay >> attached to the air box structure). I want to monitor the position of t he >> door with the Dynon EFIS pin input. >> >> .. >> >> >> >> THANKS AGAIN and I am VERY GRATEFUL for the help!!! >> >> >> >> Bill Hunter >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Bill, > > The pullup resistor is shown on that data sheet, in the schematic, which > also shows all the wire connections to make it work. It should do what yo u > want, but it's not that much smaller than many of the devices I sent > earlier. It would save you (and us) a lot of time if you spell out all of > your requirements, including size (dimensions) in your initial question. > > If you really need small, try this: > http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/MEDER-electronic-Standex/KSK-1C90U- > 1015/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvFdY0L2HfHxsLmHWXxOk2BtXfBXWgtRX0%3d > > or use the google to search for 'form C reed switch'. No electronics, jus t > a single pole, double throw magnetically activated switch (electrically, it > looks just like a SPDT toggle switch). The one I linked is 'bare' and cou ld > be easily fit into a 3/8" diameter by 1" long space. > > Couple more thoughts. Do you really need two magnets? Have you checked > whether the engine can actually overcome the magnets, if the inlet is > blocked? (Many newer magnets are quite powerful.) If you use a long narro w > magnet & just a piece of steel on the stationary side, you could probably > use the same magnet to hold the door shut and activate the reed switch > (mounted away from the steel, toward the other pole of the magnet). > > Charlie > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.