Today's Message Index:
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1. 08:04 AM - Re: Did I Fry My Optima Battery?!?!? (William Hunter)
2. 09:20 AM - Re: Did I Fry My Optima Battery?!?!? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 09:46 AM - Solder for Thermocouple splices (RWhitt1245@aol.com)
4. 10:14 AM - Re: Solder for Thermocouple splices (Robert McCallum)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Did I Fry My Optima Battery?!?!? |
> Yet, here we are.
Yup.THANKS Bob for the words of encouragement.
I betcha if I would have had the battery sitting straight up that the "gel"
would not have leaked out.
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Did I Fry My Optima Battery?!?!?
At 05:39 PM 6/25/2017, you wrote:
So.I left my battery charger connected to an Optima battery overnight on the
10 Amp charge position. In the immortal words of Homer Simpson "!!!DOH!!!"
The Optima battery can be installed in any position other than upside down
and my battery was installed on its side. Well in the morning, I noticed
that clear liquid was leaking out of the two small gray ports so I assume
that these ports are some kind of vent to release the internal pressure in
the instance where some DumbBass left the charger plugged in all night and
the battery overheated.
I felt the battery was not hot nor even warm however the liquid was
definitely dripping out a fair amount.
I thought that these things were supposed to be "spill proof" because they
are "gel filled". In the past I noticed that when in the battery charger is
in the 10 amp position the battery charger only puts out a voltage of about
13.0 volts so I would not have thought that it could cook a battery.
The 13.0 volt observation seems valid . . . and certainly
not enough snort to cook an SVLA battery. Yet, here we are.
I would do a cranking load test on it first. Go to a battery store
and have them load it DOWN and HOLD at 9 volts for 15 seconds. At the
end of 15 seconds, note the current. A new battery of that genre would
probably dump 400-600A. This test will normally consume less than
10% of a battery's snort. Follow up with a cap check. Hook a 55W head
lamp to the battery and see how long it runs before the voltage drops
below 11.0 volts. Again, for a battery of that ilk, 8 to 10 hours
is healthy.
After the first test, put it on a known-good charger/maintainer
and repeat the test.
Now, even if it still performs electrically, I wouldn't
recommend using it for anything other than ground ops.
It's obviously compromised.
Optimas are jelly-roll cells with a rich heritage in
AGM development and marketing. I'm a bit surprised that
this thing leaked 'juice'.
Hmmm . . . found these tid-bits on the 'net
http://tinyurl.com/ya7lnv5u
http://tinyurl.com/yaxbbaxl
http://tinyurl.com/ydbpvo5z
http://tinyurl.com/y76kk7q9
Seems your experience is not unheard of . . .
What is the brand and model number of your battery charger?
I have found, disappointingly, that even the masters of
battery chargers stub their toe from time to time. I have
a 'beefy' automotive charger by Schumacher I bought at
Walmart a few years ago.
http://tinyurl.com/y7yrzlyk
I was evaluating a battery for Hawker-Beech that
was purported to be a new, 'carbon foam' device.
The sample I was working with was a 100A.h. group
31 truck battery. Needed something much larger than
my usual stable of battery charger-maintainers.
This thing was supposed to output charging profiles
tailored to flooded, gel and AGM batteries. Got to
watch the behavior during a dozen or more recharge
cycles on the test battery. Frankly, the behaviors
in each mode did not match conventional wisdom.
I've still got the charger. Used it on the truck
a few weeks ago to mitigate a dome-light-discharge
event. But in spite of the claims in literature, I
would not use this charger for anything but utility
recoveries . . . it's not a 'maintainer' in spite
of its apparent used of software.
It would be interesting to test your charger with
instrumentation to see if it might be responsible
for your battery's 'accident'.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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| Subject: | Did I Fry My Optima Battery?!?!? |
At 10:03 AM 6/26/2017, you wrote:
> > Yet, here we are.
>
>Yup=85THANKS Bob for the words of encouragement.
>
>I betcha if I would have had the battery sitting
>straight up that the =93gel=94 would not have leaked out.
>..
>
Maybe . . . but I've been getting search hits on
Optima leaks that do not correlate with laying
the battery down.
Optima may well be suffering from acquisition creep
and often profound if not terminal degradation of value
for a product or service.
Three patents on jelly-roll cells are found at
http://tinyurl.com/y7p26p9l One of these dates
to 1943, 73 years ago. Roots of the Optima cells
take a genealogic side track when Gates Rubber
adapts the idea to the AGM technology with their
work Circa 1975. At this time, the contained liquid
in the cells was reduced to less than saturation
of the glass mat separators.
At this time, the cells were, like other SBLA/AGM
products, supposed to be 'leak proof'. Drive a
nail into them and no liquid comes out.
Gates got out of the battery business and their
product lines got scattered to the market. Hawker
Enersys was interested in the smaller, 2.5 a.h.
cells, Optima took on the larger cells. I see
that Enersys has expanded their Cyclon jelly-roll
line to include the larger, 25 a.h. cells.
http://tinyurl.com/yd9z6x89
The Optima line may well have spun off directly
from Gates . . . their operations spooled up
in Aurora Co, a short distance from the Gats
facilities in Colorado.
I understand they are owned by Johnson Controls
(who also used to do Gel Cells . . . maybe still
does) and the factory is moved to Mexico . . . not
necessarily a bad thing but it does give rise to
questions about why these products have become
'leakers'.
B&C offered the Gates 25 a.h. cells . . . I think
it was their first venture into AGM technolgy. They
had been offering Sonnenschein GELS for some time
previous to Gates AGM. I put an array of these cells
into the PAT-1 prototype about 1980. Unfortunately,
the airplane was lost with three souls aboard
during a demonstration flight for NASA. The Gates
25 a.h. cells proved problematic in aircraft . . . the
negative terminals were prone to cracking inside
the battery . . . the newer Enersys cells are, no
doubt, more robust.
In any case, leaking from the Optima products is
mystifying and surprising. I'll see if I can
find out more about it. In the mean time, it's
sure bet that your existing battery is not
flight worthy. Why did you choose so hefty a
battery?
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Solder for Thermocouple splices |
Can anyone suggest a specific silver solder product for use in soldering
thermocouple wire spices?
Ron
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Solder for Thermocouple splices |
"Easy-flo 45" from Handy and Harman works well.
Bob McC
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: RWhitt1245@aol.com
> Date: June 26, 2017 at 12:44 PM
>
> Can anyone suggest a specific silver solder product for use in soldering
> thermocouple wire spices?
>
> Ron
>
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