---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 07/13/17: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 10:14 AM - Re: Newbe Question about getting started. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 10:26 AM - Re: Newbe Question about getting started. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 11:32 AM - Re: Newbe Question about getting started. (Robert Reed) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 10:14:12 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Newbe Question about getting started. At 03:53 PM 7/12/2017, you wrote: > >New Guy here....I am building a Bearhawk Patrol, and reading thru >AeroElectric Connection for the second time. Following Bob's >recommendations, I have started a "Wirebook" with a few Bus and >system schematics. > >How do I bring together a safe and reliable aircraft electrical >system from my wire book? > >I had a thought. Build a peg board mock up of my instrument panel >and firewall with all the tubing that exists between the two, then >assemble and wire all the switches, contractors, relays, Fuse >Blocks, diodes, crow bars, D-sub connectors, fuses, and what not. I >could add the electrical accessories as I acquire them... Maybe >acquiring a few products at OSH this year? Seems like building a >mock up is a good place to start help acquire the tools, and wiring >skills. In the end I suppose I could wire up the avionics, >antennas, and finalize the wire bundles then bench test the whole >system prior to installation. As suggested . . . get the airplane built first . . . or at least mostly built. Check out exemplar airplanes at OSH, talk to the builders, join one or more Bearhawk forums. Find out what things make sense to assemble out of the airplane. The peg board is used in production environments to great advantage for cookie-cutter airplanes. But know that most peg boards are designed around a harness that was built up in the airframe first then used as a model for duplication. Further, the board may be 'adjusted' several times before the installers offer to buy beers for the folks on the wire balcony. Do the page-per-system wirebook. Wire each system one at a time . . . there are no 'complex' systems . . . after you've completed a dozen or so pages of wiring you find yourself all done. There is VERY little wiring associated with radios that is not concentrated in instrument panel area and again, on a radio-by-radio basis . . . pretty simple. Your biggest single asset is a line of communications with folks that have been-there-done-that. It's even better if you can see what they've done by looking at the airplane (osh again). But I cannot recommend purchasing any whippy products offered over the counter at OSH until your fellow builders have given the thumbs up for return-on-investment. Having been to osh perhaps 18 times, I can say that super-selling over the counters and digging through the super-garage-sale at the north end are problematic for the neophyte builder. The biggest bargain I ever purchased out of the Fly Market was a King KY-90, S/N 110 . . . probably built by hand in Ed King's farmhouse factory south of Olathe, KS. I think I paid $10 for it. The various Lists and Forums on the 'net are your best resources for data and advice. Your best resource for materials may just turn out to be eBay . . . Let's talk . . . Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:26:27 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Newbe Question about getting started. >How do I bring together a safe and reliable aircraft electrical >system from my wire book? Not nit picking here . . . but read chapter 17 again. There is no such thing as a 'safe' airplane, only low-risk and lower-risk airplanes. All airplanes are dangerous as hell in their ability to make your day very miserable. What does 'reliable' mean . . . nothing ever breaks? Won't happen. ASSUME that everything you bolt to your airplane is going to break. How will you KNOW that it has broken? If in flight, how does failure influence likely outcome of the flight? Can the failure be pre-flight detected? If loss of that feature raises your level of discomfort to unacceptable levels (too much risk) then what is your Plan-B for mitigating that failure? The lowest risk FLIGHT system is fabricated by a builder who understands systems sifted for high risk failure modes and flown by a pilot who is confident in the builder's decisions for crafting a FAILURE TOLERANT airplane. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:32:25 AM PST US From: Robert Reed Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Newbe Question about getting started. I don't often offer my advice but I will on this one occasion since the ori ginal post was from an admitted newbie. Don't buy any major components (Avionics, Engines, radios, props, =C2-etc .) until you are ready to use them. I have found thru very expensive experience to make an ordered list of smal l projects to be completed over a measured period of time.=C2- I then rev iew that list, determine the parts (if any) that are required and order the m at that time.=C2- I=C2-keep the time frame short for the list (1 mont h at most) and delay any major purchases until I know that I can't work aro und them.=C2- Make your decisions on what you are going to use and build toward that but be flexible, so much is changing that you don't want to get caught with a lot of expensive equipment you will never use. My advice is free but the experience that it is based on was very, very exp ensive. Bob Reed From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2017 12:15 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Newbe Question about getting started. At 03:53 PM 7/12/2017, you wrote: --> AeroElectric-List messageposted by: "bcone1381" New Guy here....I am building a Bearhawk Patrol, and reading thruAeroElectr ic Connection for the second time.=C2- Following Bob'srecommendations, I have started a "Wirebook" with a few Bus andsystem schematics. How do I bring together a safe and reliable aircraft electrical systemfrom my wire book? I had a thought.=C2- Build a peg board mock up of my instrument paneland firewall with all the tubing that exists between the two, thenassemble and wire all the switches, contractors, relays, Fuse Blocks,diodes, crow bars, D-sub connectors,=C2- fuses, and what not. I couldadd the electrical acce ssories as I acquire them... Maybe acquiring a fewproducts at OSH this year ?=C2-=C2- Seems like building a mock up is agood place to start help ac quire the tools, and wiring skills.=C2- Inthe end I suppose I could wire up the avionics, antennas, and finalizethe wire bundles then bench test the whole system prior toinstallation. =C2-=C2- As suggested . . . get the airplane built first . . . =C2-=C2- or at least mostly built. Check out exemplar airplanes =C2-=C2- at OSH, talk to the builders, join one or more Bearhawk =C2-=C2- forums. =C2-=C2- Find out what things make sense to assemble out =C2-=C2- of the airplane.=C2- The peg board is used inproduction =C2-=C2- environments to great advantage for cookie-cutter =C2-=C2- airplanes. But know that most peg boards are =C2-=C2- designed around a harness that was built up in the =C2-=C2- airframe first then used as a model forduplication. =C2-=C2- Further, the board may be 'adjusted' several times =C2-=C2- before the installers offer to buy beers for the =C2-=C2- folks on the wire balcony. =C2-=C2- Do the page-per-system wirebook. Wire each system one =C2-=C2- at a time . . . there are no 'complex' systems . . . =C2-=C2- after you've completed a dozen or so pages of wiring =C2-=C2- you find yourself all done. =C2-=C2- There is VERY little wiring associated with radios =C2-=C2- that is not concentrated in instrument panel area =C2-=C2- and again, on a radio-by-radio basis . . . pretty =C2-=C2- simple. =C2-=C2- Your biggest single asset is a line of communications =C2-=C2- with folks that have been-there-done-that. It's even =C2-=C2- better if you can see what they've done by looking at =C2-=C2- the airplane (osh again). =C2-=C2- But I cannot recommend purchasing any whippy products =C2-=C2- offered over the counter at OSH until your fellowbuilders =C2-=C2- have given the thumbs up for return-on-investment. =C2-=C2- Having been to osh perhaps 18 times, I can say thatsuper-selli ng =C2-=C2- over the counters and digging through thesuper-garage-sale =C2-=C2- at the north end are problematic for the neophytebuilder. =C2-=C2- The biggest bargain I ever purchased out of the FlyMarket =C2-=C2- was a King KY-90, S/N 110 . . . probably built by handin =C2-=C2- Ed King's farmhouse factory south of Olathe, KS. Ithink =C2-=C2- I paid $10 for it. =C2-=C2- The various Lists and Forums on the 'net are your best =C2-=C2- resources for data and advice. Your best resource formaterials =C2-=C2- may just turn out to be eBay . . . =C2-=C2- Let's talk . . . =C2- Bob . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.