---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 07/16/17: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:10 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 07/15/17 (Merle Wagner) 2. 05:12 AM - Re: Troubleshooting 200G/ Z-17 (Jeff Point) 3. 05:56 AM - Re: Troubleshooting 200G/ Z-17 (C&K) 4. 02:30 PM - Re: Troubleshooting 200G/ Z-17 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 02:55 PM - Re: Troubleshooting 200G/ Z-17 (user9253) 6. 03:29 PM - Re: Troubleshooting 200G/ Z-17 (Jeff Point) 7. 03:33 PM - Re: Re: Troubleshooting 200G/ Z-17 (Jeff Point) 8. 04:01 PM - Z13/8 Schottky Diode Voltage Drop Increasing (Jared Yates) 9. 04:31 PM - Re: Re: IVO Prop current limiter (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 05:03 PM - Re: Troubleshooting 200G/ Z-17 (user9253) 11. 05:18 PM - Re: Z13/8 Schottky Diode Voltage Drop Increasing (user9253) 12. 05:33 PM - order aero electric book and cd bundle about week and a half ago (Jeffrey C Warren) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:10:15 AM PST US From: Merle Wagner Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 07/15/17 Bob, You can put me down for one. If I break away from the Tailwind then I can concentrate on another project. Merle On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 2:59 AM, AeroElectric-List Digest Server < aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can also be found in either of > the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text > editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style > 82701&View=html&Chapter 17-07-15&Archive=AeroElectric > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style > 82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-07-15&Archive=AeroElectric > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > AeroElectric-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Sat 07/15/17: 1 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 07:31 AM - Re: Re: IVO Prop current limiter (Robert L. Nuckolls, > III) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:31:40 AM PST US > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: IVO Prop current limiter > > The boards didn't make it here yestereday . . . flight > delay . . . will be here Monday. > > How do you guys want to disposition the 5 extra boards? > > I'll keep one to play with. If as many as five others > want to build one, it sorta makes sense that one > person in the build group buy parts and split > up into kits. > > Saves on postage, procurement $time$ and perhaps > increased opportunity for quantity breaks. > > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:58 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Troubleshooting 200G/ Z-17 From: Jeff Point Update- A call to B&C and a new regulator was on it's way to me. They agreed that, while rare, the symptoms and trouble shooting indicated a bad one. I got the new one, installed it... and nothing. The same results. I've confirmed that the dynamo is putting out AC voltage which varies with engine speed as it should. I confirmed that the regulator is seeing battery voltage (13.1) with the motor off. I confirmed that the relay is working. Interestingly, after a longer runup including 10 seconds at full power, battery voltage at the end was 0.2V higher than when we started the run. This was measured at the panel voltmeter and confirmed by my electrician friend with his high-doller Fluke meter at the battery. One data point that I failed to mention- I'm running a Earth-X 680C LiFePo battery, and perhaps this battery with it's built-in electronics is somehow disrupting the normal workings of things? I would still expect bus voltage to come up to the set point of 14.4 at full power, but it did not. Jeff On 7/11/17 11:16 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > At 10:04 PM 7/11/2017, you wrote: >> >> All, >> >> The good news from today is that I successfully ran my freshly >> overhauled O-200 today in preparation for a FAA inspection in a few >> weeks. The bad news is that I am getting no alternator output at all. >> The alternator is a B&C 200G PM dynamo, wired per Z-17 (no master >> contactor.) Running the engine between idle and 1800 RPM saw no >> change in bus voltage, which stayed at the same 13.1V as it did with >> the engine not running. >> >> Troubleshooting so far- besides checking all wiring connections, I >> verified that the OV relay is working and that I wired it correctly. >> I verified that the alternator's raw output was as expected >> (15-25VAC, increasing with speed.) I measured voltage at the >> capacitor (just downstream of the regulator) and it was the same 13.1 >> and did not vary with speed. Disconnecting the regulator I verified >> that there is zero volts coming out of the regulator, although I >> understand from the troubleshooting documents that it must have bus >> voltage applied in order to output, so I'm thinking this doesn't mean >> much. > > Yes . . . was your alternator disconnect relay closing when > you moved the switch to ALT+BAT postion? > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:14 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Troubleshooting 200G/ Z-17 From: C&K Occasionally relays will physically close but not pass current. Might be worth hard wiring across the relay contacts to confirm. Might be worth clipping a conventional battery onto the Earth-x to see what happens. I think my dynamo will go a lot higher than 25vac if it has no load. My next step might be to conform the AC output under load perhaps by clipping an automotive headlamp onto the AC output. I'd expect it to brighten right up at fast idle. Ken On 16/07/2017 8:12 AM, Jeff Point wrote: > > Update- A call to B&C and a new regulator was on it's way to me. They > agreed that, while rare, the symptoms and trouble shooting indicated a > bad one. I got the new one, installed it... and nothing. The same > results. > > I've confirmed that the dynamo is putting out AC voltage which varies > with engine speed as it should. I confirmed that the regulator is > seeing battery voltage (13.1) with the motor off. I confirmed that the > relay is working. > > Interestingly, after a longer runup including 10 seconds at full > power, battery voltage at the end was 0.2V higher than when we started > the run. This was measured at the panel voltmeter and confirmed by my > electrician friend with his high-doller Fluke meter at the battery. > > One data point that I failed to mention- I'm running a Earth-X 680C > LiFePo battery, and perhaps this battery with it's built-in > electronics is somehow disrupting the normal workings of things? I > would still expect bus voltage to come up to the set point of 14.4 at > full power, but it did not. > > Jeff > > On 7/11/17 11:16 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >> At 10:04 PM 7/11/2017, you wrote: >>> >>> All, >>> >>> The good news from today is that I successfully ran my freshly >>> overhauled O-200 today in preparation for a FAA inspection in a few >>> weeks. The bad news is that I am getting no alternator output at all. >>> The alternator is a B&C 200G PM dynamo, wired per Z-17 (no master >>> contactor.) Running the engine between idle and 1800 RPM saw no >>> change in bus voltage, which stayed at the same 13.1V as it did with >>> the engine not running. >>> >>> Troubleshooting so far- besides checking all wiring connections, I >>> verified that the OV relay is working and that I wired it >>> correctly. I verified that the alternator's raw output was as >>> expected (15-25VAC, increasing with speed.) I measured voltage at >>> the capacitor (just downstream of the regulator) and it was the same >>> 13.1 and did not vary with speed. Disconnecting the regulator I >>> verified that there is zero volts coming out of the regulator, >>> although I understand from the troubleshooting documents that it >>> must have bus voltage applied in order to output, so I'm thinking >>> this doesn't mean much. >> >> Yes . . . was your alternator disconnect relay closing when >> you moved the switch to ALT+BAT postion? >> >> Bob . . . >> > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:30:44 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Troubleshooting 200G/ Z-17 At 07:12 AM 7/16/2017, you wrote: >Update- A call to B&C and a new regulator was on it's way to >me. They agreed that, while rare, the symptoms and trouble shooting >indicated a bad one. I got the new one, installed it... and >nothing. The same results. Has this system EVER worked? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:55:24 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Troubleshooting 200G/ Z-17 From: "user9253" Jeff, With the engine running, measure the voltage between the regulator red and black wires. Then measure the voltage between aircraft ground and the regulator black wire. Engine still running, measure voltage between the battery positive terminal and the regulator red wire. Let us know what you find. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471070#471070 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:29:15 PM PST US From: Jeff Point Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Troubleshooting 200G/ Z-17 This is a new installation on an almost-finished but not yet flown homebuilt ... so no. The 200G did work in its previous installation, but it was sent b ack to B&C for an inspection following a prop strike accident, at which time it was updated to the latest and greatest guts. The new guts required a ne w regulator as well, as the old one (which worked in the previous installati on) would not work with the updated unit. Jeff Sent from my iPad > On Jul 16, 2017, at 4:30 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > At 07:12 AM 7/16/2017, you wrote: > >> Update- A call to B&C and a new regulator was on it's way to me. They ag reed that, while rare, the symptoms and trouble shooting indicated a bad one . I got the new one, installed it... and nothing. The same results. > > Has this system EVER worked? > > > Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:33:29 PM PST US From: Jeff Point Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Troubleshooting 200G/ Z-17 I'll give that all a whirl... but with Oshkosh around the corner it will be a couple of weeks. In the mean time help me out- what would you expect to learn from these measurements? I also have an old but serviceable Odessey 680 that I will swap out for the Earth-x and see if that makes a difference. Jeff See you all in Oshkosh next week. Sent from my iPad > On Jul 16, 2017, at 4:54 PM, user9253 wrote: > > > Jeff, > With the engine running, measure the voltage between the regulator red and black wires. Then measure the voltage between aircraft ground and the regulator black wire. Engine still running, measure voltage between the battery positive terminal and the regulator red wire. Let us know what you find. > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471070#471070 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:01:51 PM PST US From: Jared Yates Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z13/8 Schottky Diode Voltage Drop Increasing I was flying along this week in cruise configuration, and was paying closer-than-usual attention to my voltage due to a battery swap. I notice that my main bus is running around 14.3 volts, and my ebus is down around 13.4. It has been a few years since I put this part of the airplane together, but I recall that one of the main selling points of the Schottky diode was to provide less of a voltage drop than that. Is there a failure mode or degraded condition of the diode that would cause it to have such a large drop? These measurements are with the Skyview EMS, taken right at the fuse block for each bus. My data collection archive for the two buses only goes back to December, but back then I had a more reasonable difference of a half volt or so. It seems like the difference between the two buses is increasing with usage. If this is an indication of an upcoming failure, I'd like to fix it, especially with a possible Oshkosh trip coming up. Things always seem to break on the way to Oshkosh. Has anyone else seen this? Thanks in advance! Jared ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:31:32 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: IVO Prop current limiter At 11:36 AM 7/15/2017, you wrote: >Bob, > > I would build one of those Prop limiters for my electric adj. IvoProp. > > If you need someone to make the initial order for parts, I'd be > happy to do that. I could disseminate the parts kits to the > interested builders. I have uploaded an illustrated bill of materials and a parts locator to . . . http://tinyurl.com/yby3waw6 Note that the BOM does not call out a mating D-sub connector (D15S) since each builder may choose from either crimp or solder-cup connectors. Also missing is a callout for a D15H hood. The builder will need 6-32 hardware to fasten the assembly down to the mounting-surface/heat-sink. A LED travel limit annunciator is also missing from the BOM. Something like this might tweak your fancy . . . http://tinyurl.com/y8j6qrva Unless the builder has programming capability for the PIC chip, I'll suggest the chip not be ordered from Digikey rather from someone in the project group with programming tools. I think the mechanical aspects of the data package are now complete. I'll assemble one here as well so we can beta-test software and compare notes. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:03:15 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Troubleshooting 200G/ Z-17 From: "user9253" Measuring voltage between the regulator red and black wires will tell if the regulator is working or not. Measuring voltage between aircraft ground and regulator black wire will tell how well the regulator is grounded. Measuring voltage between battery positive and regulator red wire will tell if all connections are good and have low resistance. The more information that we have, the easier it will be to troubleshoot the problem. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471080#471080 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:37 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z13/8 Schottky Diode Voltage Drop Increasing From: "user9253" If the electrical load has not increased since December, then the most likely cause of an extra half volt drop is a bad connection. Fuse holders are likely suspects. Measure the voltage between the two buses by touching both buses with the voltmeter probes. In other words, do not use ground as a reference point. Instead use one bus as a reference and measure various points until the voltage drop is found. The diode might not be the culprit. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471081#471081 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:33:15 PM PST US From: Jeffrey C Warren Subject: AeroElectric-List: order aero electric book and cd bundle about week and a half ago recieved confirmation from aeroelectric but never a paypal notice. Jeffrey C Warren RV14A #140195 864-275-3798 heffnhane@mac.com (SC47) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.