Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:12 AM - Re: Fuse Blocks (Stuart Hutchison)
2. 02:39 AM - Re: Fuse Blocks (Art Zemon)
3. 07:56 AM - Re: Starter Solenoid Diode (William Hunter)
4. 10:42 AM - Backup Alternator / Backup Battery Sanity Check (Art Zemon)
5. 12:56 PM - Re: Backup Alternator / Backup Battery Sanity Check (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 01:14 PM - Re: Backup Alternator / Backup Battery Sanity Check (user9253)
7. 01:35 PM - Aircraft theft prevention? (donjohnston)
8. 02:19 PM - Re: Aircraft theft prevention? (Robert McCallum)
9. 02:22 PM - Re: Aircraft theft prevention? (Tcwtech)
10. 02:29 PM - Re: Starter Solenoid Diode (user9253)
11. 02:38 PM - Re: Aircraft theft prevention? (iiNet)
12. 05:35 PM - Re: Aircraft theft prevention? (John Keen)
13. 06:07 PM - Re: Aircraft theft prevention? (donjohnston)
14. 06:25 PM - Re: Aircraft theft prevention? (David Saylor)
15. 06:47 PM - Re: Re: Backup Alternator / Backup Battery Sanity Check (Art Zemon)
16. 07:01 PM - Re: Backup Alternator / Backup Battery Sanity Check (ashleysc@broadstripe.net)
17. 07:26 PM - Re: Aircraft theft prevention? (ashleysc@broadstripe.net)
18. 07:43 PM - Re: Backup Alternator / Backup Battery Sanity Check (user9253)
19. 07:45 PM - Standby Alternator Wiring (Art Zemon)
Message 1
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Sure, but two 12s = 24 more than enough :-)
> On 6 Aug 2017, at 16:25, John Tipton <jmtipton@btopenworld.com> wrote:
>
> "SteinAir has everything" - apparently not: they don't seem to to the
16 and 20 fuse sizes !!!
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> ----x--O--x----
>
> On 6 Aug 2017, at 05:31 am, Stuart Hutchison
<stuart@stuarthutchison.com.au <mailto:stuart@stuarthutchison.com.au>>
wrote:
>
>> SteinAir has everything -
http://www.steinair.com/?search_category=&s=fuse&search_posttype=pro
duct
<http://www.steinair.com/?search_category=&s=fuse&search_posttype=pr
oduct>
>>
>> Cheers, Stu
>>
>>> On 6 Aug 2017, at 10:16, Ron Burnett <ronburnett@charter.net
<mailto:ronburnett@charter.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Art,
>>>
>>> I got mine at West Marine.
>>>
>>> Ron Burnett
>>>
>>> May you have the Lord's blessings today!
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Aug 5, 2017, at 6:57 PM, Art Zemon <art@zemon.name
<mailto:art@zemon.name>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's exactly what I need! Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> -- Art Z.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my phone. Please excuse brevity and bizarre typos.
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 5, 2017 6:54 PM, "John Ciolino" <JohnCiolino@carolina.rr.com
<mailto:JohnCiolino@carolina.rr.com>> wrote:
>>>> There is something simpler. See www.bandc.aero
<http://www.bandc.aero/>, look under electrical supplies/circuit
protection devices/fuse blocks. A 20 circuit block ready to use is $30.
>>>>
>>>> Good luck/
>>>>
>>
Message 2
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Perfect! I'll drive over soon. Nice 'n' convenient and I can support the
local economy with my huge purchase :-)
Thanks, Ron.
-- Art Z.
On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 7:16 PM, Ron Burnett <ronburnett@charter.net> wrote:
> Art,
>
> I got mine at West Marine.
>
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Starter Solenoid Diode |
Hi All,
I know everyone has been rooting for me so I figured I would post back on
my progress.
I tried wiring up the sensor pin using the diode as was suggested on the
Dynon forum however I did not have any luck so I had to use my lifeline and
called Dynon tech support and as usual they were extremely helpful.
After trying different EMS settings and diode polorisation and such it
appears that the only way I could get my starter contactor annunciation to
work is to connect the sensor pin to the same 5/16 starter contactor output
terminal that the starter motor cable is connected to... in other words the
"I" terminal will not work. It seems that the sensor pin needs to see some
kind of a ground for it to get "pulled down" to low and since the "I"
terminal does not have any path the ground when the starter contactor is
not energized there's no way I could get it to work.
I'm happy that at least now my starter engaged annunciator will illuminate
however after I got off the phone I am now wondering if I need some kind of
protection between the starter contactor output pole and the EMS sensor
wire.
Anyhoo, thanks for all your help, well wishes, moments of silence, finger
crossing, and other positive energy telepathic thought waves!!!
Baby steps to Dynon Bliss!!!
Thanks,
Bill Hunter
On Aug 3, 2017 9:51 AM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 10:38 AM 8/3/2017, you wrote:
>
> At 09:07 PM 8/2/2017, you wrote:
>
>
> My Spanish uncle would call it a =9CDye-Oh-Doe=9D and I know
I need one
> however I do not know what value nor where to install it.
>
> I want an indicator on my EMS to monitor the starter motor being energize
d
> and a cyber friend recommended installing a 1N4004 diode on my =9CI
=9D pole of
> my starter solenoid to protect the Dynon EMS sensor and he drew up the
> attached PDF diagram and I will certainly do as he recommends.
>
> The additional question iscan someone also provide me with a qui
ck
> schmatic of what diode I should use and where and what polarity to instal
l
> it to protect from electrical spikes (in the same manner as one does for
> master contactors)?
>
> ..
>
> THANKS GUYSI am making progress this week (for a change)!!!
>
> Bill Hunter
>
>
> Can't imagine why . . . if your EMS has inputs designed to
> attach to any source of power on the airplane for the purposes
> of monitoring (voltmeter input) then just tie it to the "I"
> terminal directly. The diode as he as shown it would actually
> prevent the EMS from seeing voltage on the "I" terminal.
>
>
> Oh, okay. If the input port to the Dynon is NORMALLY
> looking for a 0-5v signal, then yes . . . as Joe
> has pointed out, a pull-up resistor on the Dynon side
> of the diode is needed to raise the input to approx 5v
> when the "I" terminal RISES ABOVE 5v (starter getting power
> from battery).
>
> If, in this case, the EMS input is tailored to 0-5v
> sensor inputs, then it may NOT be protected internally
> for general used looked at voltages elsewhere on the
> system. Do check with Dynon as to absolute maximums
> that the input will tolerate.
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Backup Alternator / Backup Battery Sanity Check |
Folks,
Can you give me a sanity check? I am building a Bede BD-4C with an MGL
EFIS. This is largely a mechanical airplane so manual trim, no gear motors,
manual flaps, etc. Between the low current consumption of the EFIS and
using LED lights, a backup alternator will run everything in the airplane
except the pitot heater; the typical current draw is 21.57 amps and maximum
is 31.49 amps. (Pitot heat adds 10 amps.)
With that in mind, I plan on including a 30 amp backup alternator and no
backup battery. I figure:
- If the engine is turning, I will certainly have one of the two
alternators operable.
- If the engine is not turning, the main battery ought to keep the
electrons flowing until I reach the ground.
Am I missing anything?
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Backup Alternator / Backup Battery Sanity Check |
At 12:41 PM 8/6/2017, you wrote:
>Folks,
>
>Can you give me a sanity check? I am building a Bede BD-4C with an
>MGL EFIS. This is largely a mechanical airplane so manual trim, no
>gear motors, manual flaps, etc. Between the low current consumption
>of the EFIS and using LED lights, a backup alternator will run
>everything in the airplane except the pitot heater; the typical
>current draw is 21.57 amps and maximum is 31.49 amps. (Pitot heat
>adds 10 amps.)
>
>With that in mind, I plan on including a 30 amp backup alternator
>and no backup battery. I figure:
> * If the engine is turning, I will certainly have one of the two
> alternators operable.
> * If the engine is not turning, the main battery ought to keep
> the electrons flowing until I reach the ground.
>Am I missing anything?
Nope
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Backup Alternator / Backup Battery Sanity Check |
With the pitot heater shut off, I would expect the continuous current draw to be
closer to 10 amps. Have you actually measured 21 amps? Regardless, the backup
alternator should run everything.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471551#471551
Message 7
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| Subject: | Aircraft theft prevention? |
So with the understanding that most aircraft security is only good enough to keep
honest folks from running off with your airplane...
But does anyone have any ideas on ways to prevent the engine from starting? Other
that the big chain prop locks.
Early on, I was considering second, hidden mag switches. But I'm wondering if
there's an alternative.
Note: I do not have a keyed ignition switch. Just a toggle switch for each mag
and a push button starter switch.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471552#471552
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft theft prevention? |
If you have mags, anyone can cut the "P" leads, hand prop the engine and fly
away, regardless of anything you've done short of the prop chain idea so long as
fuel is available. Maybe a hidden locking fuel valve. Be careful, as this may
not prevent the engine starting and there might be just enough residual fuel in
the lines to get airborne before the engine quits. The prop chain has the added
benefit of being a visible deterrent so they won't even try, but rather go to an
easier target.
Bob McC
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: donjohnston <don@velocity-xl.com>
> Date: August 6, 2017 at 4:35 PM
>
>
> <don@velocity-xl.com>
>
> So with the understanding that most aircraft security is only good enough
> to keep honest folks from running off with your airplane...
>
> But does anyone have any ideas on ways to prevent the engine from
> starting? Other that the big chain prop locks.
>
> Early on, I was considering second, hidden mag switches. But I'm wondering
> if there's an alternative.
>
> Note: I do not have a keyed ignition switch. Just a toggle switch for each
> mag and a push button starter switch.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471552#471552
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft theft prevention? |
You may want to check out a product we sell called SmartStart. It allows for a
hidden arming switch that when pressed gives you 1 minute to crank the engine.
It works with the standard start contactor, can interface to a push button
switch or standard key switch. It also listens to interlock switches that
must be closed before arming can occur
Www.tcwtech.com
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies, LLC
610-928-3420
> On Aug 6, 2017, at 4:35 PM, donjohnston <don@velocity-xl.com> wrote:
>
>
> So with the understanding that most aircraft security is only good enough to
keep honest folks from running off with your airplane...
>
> But does anyone have any ideas on ways to prevent the engine from starting? Other
that the big chain prop locks.
>
> Early on, I was considering second, hidden mag switches. But I'm wondering if
there's an alternative.
>
> Note: I do not have a keyed ignition switch. Just a toggle switch for each mag
and a push button starter switch.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471552#471552
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Starter Solenoid Diode |
Since no one else has replied, I will give it a shot. I do not know if the EMS
input needs protection or not. But if you want to add protection, the attached
pdf should work. The left diode blocks aircraft current from flowing into
the EMS input. The diode on the right shorts out any induced voltage spike.
The two 500 ohm resistors divide starter voltage in half. The bottom resistor
also provides a ground path to pull the EMS input voltage low (to about 0.25
V) when the contactor is not energized.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471555#471555
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/starter_status_124.pdf
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft theft prevention? |
Take a look at the TCM Smart Start Don.
Kind Regards, Stu
Sent from my iPhone
> On 7 Aug 2017, at 07:18, Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca> w
rote:
>
> If you have mags, anyone can cut the "P" leads, hand prop the engine and f
ly away, regardless of anything you've done short of the prop chain idea so l
ong as fuel is available. Maybe a hidden locking fuel valve. Be careful, as t
his may not prevent the engine starting and there might be just enough resid
ual fuel in the lines to get airborne before the engine quits. The prop chai
n has the added benefit of being a visible deterrent so they won't even try,
but rather go to an easier target.
>
> Bob McC
>
>> ---------- Original Message ----------
>> From: donjohnston <don@velocity-xl.com>
>> Date: August 6, 2017 at 4:35 PM
>>
>>
om>
>>
>> So with the understanding that most aircraft security is only good enough
to keep honest folks from running off with your airplane...
>>
>> But does anyone have any ideas on ways to prevent the engine from startin
g? Other that the big chain prop locks.
>>
>> Early on, I was considering second, hidden mag switches. But I'm wonderin
g if there's an alternative.
>>
>> Note: I do not have a keyed ignition switch. Just a toggle switch for eac
h mag and a push button starter switch.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471552#471552
>>
>>
>>
> >
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft theft prevention? |
I have a keyed master, and the starter button won't work without the master. But
I guess the aircraft could be hand propped as the mags are both on toggle switches.
John Keen
0412 141 833
> On 7 Aug 2017, at 06:35, donjohnston <don@velocity-xl.com> wrote:
>
>
> So with the understanding that most aircraft security is only good enough to
keep honest folks from running off with your airplane...
>
> But does anyone have any ideas on ways to prevent the engine from starting? Other
that the big chain prop locks.
>
> Early on, I was considering second, hidden mag switches. But I'm wondering if
there's an alternative.
>
> Note: I do not have a keyed ignition switch. Just a toggle switch for each mag
and a push button starter switch.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471552#471552
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft theft prevention? |
Not an option for me as I have a 24v electrical system.
rnewman(at)tcwtech.com wrote:
> You may want to check out a product we sell called SmartStart. It allows for
a hidden arming switch that when pressed gives you 1 minute to crank the engine.
It works with the standard start contactor, can interface to a push button
switch or standard key switch. It also listens to interlock switches that
must be closed before arming can occur
>
> Www.tcwtech.com
>
>
> Bob Newman
> TCW Technologies, LLC
> 610-928-3420
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471564#471564
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft theft prevention? |
With the understanding that additional layers add complexity and reduce
reliability, you could wire your master switch in series with another
ubiquitous toggle far from the master, and label it something like
"Safety/Normal".
Speaking of extra switches, I had a customer with several planes who put a
landing gear switch in his Glasair FT. Just so he didn't get out of the
habit!
--Dave
On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 1:35 PM, donjohnston <don@velocity-xl.com> wrote:
> don@velocity-xl.com>
>
> So with the understanding that most aircraft security is only good enough
> to keep honest folks from running off with your airplane...
>
> But does anyone have any ideas on ways to prevent the engine from
> starting? Other that the big chain prop locks.
>
> Early on, I was considering second, hidden mag switches. But I'm
> wondering if there's an alternative.
>
> Note: I do not have a keyed ignition switch. Just a toggle switch for
> each mag and a push button starter switch.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471552#471552
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Backup Alternator / Backup Battery Sanity Check |
Joe,
See the Amps table on my electrical system overview diagram
<https://drive.google.com/drive/u/2/folders/0BzOP2gb9_3RQUHpIMjNfa0NnQW8>.
It comes to 21.57 amps typical, 31.49 amps maximum.
Cheers,
-- Art Z.
On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 3:13 PM, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> With the pitot heater shut off, I would expect the continuous current draw
> to be closer to 10 amps. Have you actually measured 21 amps? Regardless,
> the backup alternator should run everything.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Backup Alternator / Backup Battery Sanity Check |
Hi Art;
For what it's worth, I have two 20 amp, internally regulated, permanent magnet
alternators and one battery. Caution: System is untried at this time.
Cheers! Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Art Zemon" <art@zemon.name>
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:41:33 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Backup Alternator / Backup Battery Sanity Check
Folks,
Can you give me a sanity check? I am building a Bede BD-4C with an MGL EFIS. This
is largely a mechanical airplane so manual trim, no gear motors, manual flaps,
etc. Between the low current consumption of the EFIS and using LED lights,
a backup alternator will run everything in the airplane except the pitot heater;
the typical current draw is 21.57 amps and maximum is 31.49 amps. (Pitot heat
adds 10 amps.)
With that in mind, I plan on including a 30 amp backup alternator and no backup
battery. I figure:
* If the engine is turning, I will certainly have one of the two alternators
operable.
* If the engine is not turning, the main battery ought to keep the electrons
flowing until I reach the ground.
Am I missing anything?
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I?
And if not now, when?" Hillel
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft theft prevention? |
Hi Don;
How about a second switch (toggle or rocker) in series with your start button,
on the panel or elsewhere, whose function is not called out?
Cheers! Stu.
PS: I only have a start button, but my canopy locks.
----- Original Message -----
From: "donjohnston" <don@velocity-xl.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 1:35:09 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft theft prevention?
So with the understanding that most aircraft security is only good enough to keep
honest folks from running off with your airplane...
But does anyone have any ideas on ways to prevent the engine from starting? Other
that the big chain prop locks.
Early on, I was considering second, hidden mag switches. But I'm wondering if
there's an alternative.
Note: I do not have a keyed ignition switch. Just a toggle switch for each mag
and a push button starter switch.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471552#471552
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Backup Alternator / Backup Battery Sanity Check |
Art, I see what you mean. It will be interesting to see how measured current compares
to calculated current. You have nice neat documentation.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471573#471573
Message 19
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| Subject: | Standby Alternator Wiring |
Folks (esp. Bob),
I want to include a B&C standby alternator system bundle
<http://www.bandc.aero/alternator20ampshomebuilt1-1-1.aspx> in my plane. I
am looking at figure Z-12, which calls for a B&C SB-1 controller. Is
the SB1B-14 in the current bundle a straight replacement? Does the bundle
come with a diagram to update/replace Z-12?
If I understand Z-12 correctly, I need a switch for the standby alternator
on/off. I do not see a switch for the main alternator on/off. What would
happen if I were to turn on the standby alternator while the main
alternator is operating? Would anything be damaged?
Thanks,
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
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