---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 09/06/17: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:58 AM - Figure Z-35. Non-Cranking (Small) Aux Battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 10:51 AM - Re: Non fading black ink (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 10:57 AM - Re: Wiring PTT Switches (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 11:02 AM - Re: Troubleshooting 200G/ Z-17 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 01:01 PM - Re: Non-aero app: 120/240 AC through 24vdc switch? (jonlaury) 6. 01:27 PM - Re: Non-aero app: 120/240 AC through 24vdc switch? (jonlaury) 7. 05:59 PM - Re: Troubleshooting 200G/ Z-17 (Jeff Point) 8. 07:25 PM - Thankful for Clear Documentation (Art Zemon) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:58:25 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Figure Z-35. Non-Cranking (Small) Aux Battery > > > * Is there an architecture that comes close but > does not meet your design goals? YES. Z-30 and Z-35. What failure modes drive you to believe that you need two batteries? Electrically dependent engine? Do you plan to do preventative maintenance on your battery(ies), i.e. periodic load and cap checks? What will be your criteria for replacement of any battery? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:51:51 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Non fading black ink At 05:32 PM 9/3/2017, you wrote: >Most black dies are really dark, dark >blue.=C2 True black, like india ink, consist of >lamp black (carbon) in water or another carrier >and is not a dye but forms a layer of carbon >black on the substrate.=C2 We used to make >aircraft drawings on Vellum that did not fade.=C2 Jurgen Yeah, just missed that. We'd graduated to plastic lead on Mylar at Cessna by the time I started there (1965). Wonder how those drawings look today. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:57:17 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wiring PTT Switches At 05:40 PM 9/3/2017, you wrote: >People often use single strand with shield. > >It's not ultra-critical and will probably work fine as a pair of >wires. The biggest consideration is reducing stress points so it >doesn't break from flexing. > >On Sep 3, 2017, at 6:16 PM, Art Zemon ><art@zemon.name> wrote: > >>Folks, >> >>I need advice on how to wire the PTT switches for my plane. Here is >>a bit of the wiring diagram for the PDA360EX audio panel: >> >> >>Clearly I have a shielded cable running from pins 33, 34, 35 on the >>PDA360EX to the microphone jack in the instrument panel. >> >>What do I run to the PTT switch in the grip on the joystick? It >>looks like an unshielded pair of wires to me. PTT wires don't benefit from shielding. Truth be known, there's probably not one mic installation in 100,000 that benefits from shielding. A twisted trio of unshielded would be just fine. You can extend your PTT wiring up the stick on a twisted pair . . . if you want to bring the ground back to the mic jack. If you want to ground the PTT switch inside the grip with other grounded controls, then a single strand to the PTT (tip) contact will do it. If the PTT switch is already connected to a common ground in the grip, then the single strand approach is fine. If you want to run the twisted pair, be sure to DISCONNECT the PTT grip switch from other grip switches . . . Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:02:34 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Troubleshooting 200G/ Z-17 At 09:55 PM 9/5/2017, you wrote: > >All, > >Just closing the loop on this discussion- after talking with both >B&C and Earth-X about this, I began to realize that what I was >seeing was normal behavior for this type of setup. I made the first >flight of the aircraft a couple weeks ago and now have about five >hours of flight data (engine monitor data) to look at. The voltage >does start out low but once takeoff power is applied, the voltage >slowly climbs to 14.55V over about a minute and remains there for >the duration of the flight. Sorry I didn't pick up on that . . . the EarthX battery is a much less compliant current sink than a lead-acid . . . hence willing to take on recharge currents that combine with your system loads to depress alternator output until the battery tops off. I'm working on some new regulator control and voltage monitoring philosophies for future designs . . . designs that I hope will be compatible with both lead-acid and lithium technologies and I've noted the effects you're seeing now. This will be limited to 'small' alternators like the SD8 and 200G and to a lesser degree with the built in PM alternators like Rotax. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:01:00 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Non-aero app: 120/240 AC through 24vdc switch? From: "jonlaury" In the first section of the article re selecting the right ICL, I'm asked for Capacitance. But neither the ballast nor the power supply list that info on their product cut-sheets. Is there away to deduce the capacitance from other supplied info? E.G., inrush current on PS is 40A @ 250vac. Ballast is 100A @ 120vac Power Supply and Ballast data sheets attached. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472559#472559 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wh7_120_l_datasheet_214.pdf http://forums.matronics.com//files/meanwell_rs_100_24_spec_189.pdf ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:27:57 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Non-aero app: 120/240 AC through 24vdc switch? From: "jonlaury" "3A?" The steady state load is about 1A, to keep the ballast happy. There's a user selected load of 1.5A that has a 25 second cycle to open circuit. Often the selection is repeated multiple times in quick succession. So the 3A was to allow a little headroom for motor surge (Does a PM motor have a surge?) and 2.5 steady state. I installed the 3A ICL yesterday and everything seems to work fine with the ICL temp settling at about 145 deg F on my meat thermometer held on with a clothes pin. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472562#472562 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:59 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Troubleshooting 200G/ Z-17 From: Jeff Point No worries Bob and thanks. We're all still learning about this new LiFePo stuff. Talking with Nathan B at Oshkosh he said he was working on a new regulator design for the PM alternators (might be what you're working on.) I offered to be a beta tester as I have a data recording engine monitor and could possibly gather some useful data. I have data from my last 5 hours that I can provide if you think it would be of any value. It's interesting to look at the voltage rise vs. RPM. There is even a slight rise during runup that I didn't notice while running up, but is clear from the data. Jeff On 9/6/17 1:02 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > At 09:55 PM 9/5/2017, you wrote: >> >> All, >> >> Just closing the loop on this discussion- after talking with both B&C >> and Earth-X about this, I began to realize that what I was seeing was >> normal behavior for this type of setup. I made the first flight of >> the aircraft a couple weeks ago and now have about five hours of >> flight data (engine monitor data) to look at. The voltage does start >> out low but once takeoff power is applied, the voltage slowly climbs >> to 14.55V over about a minute and remains there for the duration of >> the flight. > > Sorry I didn't pick up on that . . . the EarthX > battery is a much less compliant current sink > than a lead-acid . . . hence willing to take > on recharge currents that combine with your > system loads to depress alternator output until > the battery tops off. > > I'm working on some new regulator control and > voltage monitoring philosophies for future > designs . . . designs that I hope will be > compatible with both lead-acid and lithium > technologies and I've noted the effects you're > seeing now. This will be limited to 'small' > alternators like the SD8 and 200G and to a lesser > degree with the built in PM alternators like > Rotax. > > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:04 PM PST US From: Art Zemon Subject: AeroElectric-List: Thankful for Clear Documentation Bob, Just a quick note of thanks. With the wiring diagram for my audio panel complete, I was wondering how to terminate all of the shields. A quick Google search turned up Bob's Shop Notes: Shield Termination Techniques , which is exactly what I need. Hat tip to you... and if we're ever in the same place at the same time, I definitely owe you a beer or three. Cheers, -- Art Z. -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" 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